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Avesism

I know Sarah Palin is an easy target and all, but...

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I think nutbag would probably be the most appropriate description.

 

 

 

 

 

And as some one has to say it, yay for US gun laws; making it easier for ALL of society to be armed, not just the responsible and sane!!!

 

 

Yay for hamburgers being legal. Helping make irresponsible eaters fat.

 

I agree with the nutbag statement, but seeing all of these people jump on Conservatives

being at fault, I felt a little justified.

 

I secretly hope this is a big smear on Palin, though. Gah, I hate her.

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Guest Ginger Bread Man

January 8, 2011 Law enforcement officials continue to piece together the facts in Saturday's shooting rampage that left a federal judge dead and a congresswoman critically injured in Arizona, and some are questioning whether divisive political rhetoric may have played a role.

At least six people died and at least a dozen were injured in the Saturday morning shooting at a Tucson, Ariz., grocery store parking lot, in which the gunman specifically targeted Arizona Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, Pima County, Ariz. Sheriff Clarence Dupnik said. Giffords was shot in the head, and the shooting continued until citizens tackled the suspected gunman, he said.

 

 

http://www.npr.org/2011/01/09/132764367/congresswoman-shot-in-arizona

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I'm not sure if any of you were aware of this but: Sarah Palin is a motherfucking MAVERICK. Can't fucks with that.

 

 

 

And apparently a pornstar on the side.

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Yay for hamburgers being legal. Helping make irresponsible eaters fat.

 

I agree with the nutbag statement, but seeing all of these people jump on Conservatives

being at fault, I felt a little justified.

 

I secretly hope this is a big smear on Palin, though. Gah, I hate her.

 

Agreed. One shouldn't be going after the conservatives on this one, because nutbag is indeed the word, but any chance to smear Palin, I'll naturally jump right on.

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Agreed. One shouldn't be going after the conservatives on this one, because nutbag is indeed the word, but any chance to smear Palin, I'll naturally jump right on.

 

 

 

Ever seen "grizzly Man"? If not, watch it. Pray for the bear victory.

 

Grizzly's 2012

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I don't really know much about this whole dealio, just posting this up to add to the discussion.

 

 

 

 

Who is Jared Lee Loughner?

Mark Potok

Director of the Southern Poverty Law Center’s Intelligence Project

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-potok/who-is-jared-lee-loughner_b_806500.html

 

Is Jared Lee Loughner, the alleged mass murderer who shot U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona, a right-wing extremist?

 

It's hard to say. When you look at the Internet material he purportedly produced, the first impression you get is that the 22-year-old now in custody for the shooting of 19 people in Tucson was completely out of his mind, or at least mildly deranged. His writings will be virtually impossible for most people to understand, what with his references to unexplained numbers, his fondness for weird syllogisms, his unexplained references and his apparent semi-literacy.

 

That said, there are some clues.

 

At one point, Loughner refers disparagingly to "currency that's not backed by gold or silver." The idea that silver and gold are the only "constitutional" money is widespread in the antigovernment "Patriot" movement that produced so much violence in the 1990s. It's linked to the core Patriot theory that the Federal Reserve is actually a private corporation run for the benefit of unnamed international bankers. So-called Patriots say paper money -- what they refer to with a sneer as "Federal Reserve notes" -- is not lawful.

 

At another, Loughner makes extraordinarily obscure comments about language and grammar, suggesting that the government engages in "mind control on the people by controlling grammar." That's not the kind of idea that's very common out there, even on the Internet. In fact, I think it's pretty clear that Loughner is taking ideas from Patriot conspiracy theorist David Wynn Miller of Milwaukee. Miller claims that the government uses grammar to "enslave" Americans and offers up his truly weird "Truth-language" as an antidote. For example, he says that if you add colons and hyphens to your name in a certain way, you are no longer taxable. Miller may be mad as a hatter, but he has a real following on the right.

 

Loughner talks about how you "can't trust the government" and someone burns a U.S. flag in one of his videos. Although certain right-wing websites are already using that (and his listing of The Communist Manifesto as one of his favorite books) to claim that Loughner was a "left-winger," that does not strike me as true. The main enemy of the Patriot movement is certainly the federal government. And so-called Patriots have certainly engaged in acts like burning the flag.

 

Finally, I think Loughner's reading list, although it included children's books and a few classics, had an underlying theme -- the individual versus the totalitarian state. Certainly, that's the explicit central theme of Ayn Rand's We the Living and Orwell's 1984 and Animal Farm, among others. I would argue that that's the way Loughner seems to be reading The Communist Manifesto and Hitler's Mein Kampf -- as variants of a kind of generalized "smash the state" attitude.

 

Chip Berlet of Political Research Associates points out in a post earlier today that Loughner also makes a reference to a "second American constitution." As Chip notes, that is commonly understood to refer to the Reconstruction amendments that freed the slaves and gave them citizenship, among other things. Chip says that "raises the question of a possible racist and anti-immigrant tie" in the Arizona shooting.

 

On top of that, Fox News is reporting on an internal Department of Homeland Security message suggesting some tie between Loughner and American Renaissance, a kind of white-collar racist group.

 

I can't speak to those allegations. Outside of what Chip pointed out, I didn't see anything that suggested racial, anti-Semitic or anti-immigrant animus in Loughner's writings. Certainly, there's nothing I saw at all reminiscent of American Renaissance, which focuses heavily on the alleged intellectual and psychological inferiority of black people.

 

At this early stage, I think Loughner is probably best described as a mentally ill or unstable person who was influenced by the rhetoric and demonizing propaganda around him. Ideology may not explain why he allegedly killed, but it could help explain how he selected his target.

 

One thing that seems clear is that Giffords, who was terribly wounded but survived, was the nearest and most obvious representative of "the government" that Loughner could find. Another is that he likely absorbed some of his anger from the vitriolic political atmosphere in the United States in general and Arizona in particular. Perhaps no one made that point better than Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, speaking to a press conference yesterday. "When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government... The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous and unfortunately Arizona has become sort of the capital. We have become the mecca for prejudice and bigotry."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Casek: It takes a significant percentage of irresponsible hamburger eaters a significant amount of time to eat enough hamburgers to get obese. It takes one nut bag 60 seconds to massacre 20 old people and children. Without a broad public health system the hamburger eaters are only harming themselves. With a broad public health system you need a large number of hamburger eaters over a long period of time to get to a point that it harms society. One nut with gun can harm a large amount of others within seconds without brining any harm to himself/herself.

 

Your analogy is such a long bow to draw that I see it as unworkable. The more guns you have in your system the easier it is for militants, nutjobs and crims to get ahold of them and the higher the chance that shit like this will happen. Pretty simple logic and pretty hard to argue against.

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Arizona Suspected Gunman Passed FBI Background Check

By Jana Winter

Published January 09, 2011

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/09/arizona-suspected-gunman-no-stranger-to-trouble/

Print Email Share Comments (1360) Text Size

 

AP

This March 2010 photo shows a man identified as Jared L. Loughner at the 2010 Tucson Festival of Books in Tucson, Ariz.

New details emerging about the suspected shooter behind Saturday's deadly rampage reveal a 22-year-old man with a troubled past who law enforcement say may have been influenced by American Renaissance, a pro-white publication.

And FoxNews.com has learned that the suspect purchased a firearm legally — and after passing an FBI background check — from Sportsman's Warehouse's Tucson store in November, the company's vice president of hunting operations told FoxNews.com.

Loughner did not present a concealed weapons permit so he was required to pass an FBI background check, which he did "immediately and without incident," said Matt French, speaking from the Sportsman's Warehouse's Utah headquarters.

"To my knowledge, the firearm purchase was without incident," French said.

He could not confirm whether the gun purchased in November was the same gun allegedly used in Saturday's mass shooting, but said it was the only recent firearm purchase made by the suspect at their stores.

 

 

"Sportsman's Warehouse is cooperating fully with the authorities in investigating this horrible tragedy," he said.

"Our sincere condolences go to those affected by this unspeakable incident."

This comes as a law enforcement memo based on information provided by the Department of Homeland Security and obtained by Fox News suggests that alleged gunman Jared Loughner — accused of killing six people, shooting Arizona Democratic Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and wounding 12 others — may have ties to the American Renaissance group, though it's unclear if he was directly affiliated with the publication or group.

 

 

The Southern Poverty Law Center describes the group as "white nationalist" whose leader, Jared Taylor, is "a kind of modern-day version of the refined but racist colonialist of old."

The memo states that there is "no direct connection" between Loughner and the group, "but strong suspicion is being directed at AmRen / American Renaissance. Suspect is possibly linked to this group. (through videos posted on his MySpace and YouTube account.). The group's ideology is anti-government, anti-immigration, anti-ZOG (Zionist Occupational Government), anti-Semitic."

The memo also includes information about the suspect's mother, who works for the Pima County Board of Supervisors and notes that Loughner has multiple arrests but no criminal record.

But Taylor, a 1973 graduate in philosophy from Yale University, told Fox News on Sunday that he had never heard of Loughner until Saturday and has checked the group's records going back 20 years and has not found any subscriptions for Loughner to American Renaissance publications.

He added he has no indication that Loughner ever attended any of the group's events, which have been held on the East Coast where the organization is based.

Taylor also denied references to the group as being "anti-ZOG."

"That is complete nonsense," he said. "I have absolutely no idea what DHS is talking about. We have never used the term 'ZOG.' We have never thought in those terms. If this is the level of research we are getting from DHS, then heaven help us," he said.

Loughner lives with his parents in a Tucson neighborhood that one neighbor described as part of an area that is notorious for "stash houses" for Mexican gangs to bring drugs into the U.S. and store them.

 

The neighbor, who asked only to be identified as Jon, said he volunteered at a phone bank for Giffords' 2008 congressional campaign. He said none of the neighbors seem to know any member of the Loughner household, which on Sunday was cordoned off. Two run-down jalopies outside the house along with a front walkway littered with empty paint buckets and a garden hose blocked the walkway and door while the entire front yard is covered in a tangled cactus tree.

Nothing like this has ever happened in this neighborhood. "We've had a number of good DEA busts," Jon said. "It's a shock, it really is. ... It's sad, it's been a sad day."

Another neighbor directly across from the home also did not want to give his name, but said a mother, son and father live at the house.

"They weren't real friendly," said the neighbor who described himself as 60 and retired. They mostly didn't talk to anyone and mainly stayed inside. "Loners," he called them.

Another neighbor, Anthony Woods, who was three years behind Loughner in school, said the father in the household was argumentative.

Woods said the dad would complain about everything from neighbors' trash cans on the street to standing too close to his property by the fence. Woods said law enforcement interviewed the mother and father at the Loughner house Saturday night.

"They confiscated a lot of things" from the house, he said.

 

Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik said Saturday that Loughner had "a troubled past."

"I'm not a psychiatrist so I have no reason to believe the person was insane. Was he unstable? I would agree with that," he said.

Loughner was kicked out of Pima Community College following a series of run-ins with school officials and police at the colleges where he frequently caused disruptions in classrooms and elsewhere on campus, according to The Arizona Republic.

The tensions with school officials led to Loughner's production of a YouTube video in which he declared the college illegal, the newspaper reports.

The college said Loughner could only return if he received mental-health clearance, according to The Arizona Republic.

 

Loughner is suspected of posting a series of YouTube videos that show a focus on literacy and currency -- as well as his distrust in the government.

"Hello, my name is Jared Lee Loughner," one of the videos says, in words appearing on the screen. "This video is my introduction to you! My favorite activity is conscience dreaming; the greatest inspiration for my political business information. Some of you don't dream -- sadly."

The video, posted Dec. 15, later turns more political.

"The majority of citizens in the United States of America have never read the United States of America's Constitution. You don't have to accept the federalist laws," the video's titles say. "In conclusion, reading the second United States Constitution, I can't trust the current government because of the ratifications: the government is implying mind control and brainwash on the people by controlling grammar. No! I won't pay debt with a currency that's not backed by gold and silver! No! I won't trust in god!"

 

Loughner's last writing on his MySpace page was just hours before the shooting.

"Goodbye friends," he wrote. "Please don't be mad at me."

Records obtained from the Pima County, Ariz., criminal database also show Loughner was arrested in 2007 for possessing drug paraphernalia, a misdemeanor charge. The records suggest that Loughner paid a $20 fee and completed a court-ordered program for drug offenders.

Three months later he was cited for running a stop sign, according to court documents.

Another record shows a 2008 arrest for what’s described as a "local charge" in Marana, Ariz., 20 miles northwest of Tucson. The non-criminal charge was dismissed.

FBI Director Robert Mueller said that the gun used in Saturday's massacre was a Glock semi-automatic 9-mm. gun with extended magazine.

Fox News.com's Judson Berger and Fox News' Jennifer Griffin and James Rosen contributed to this report.

 

 

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/09/arizona-suspected-gunman-no-stranger-to-trouble/#ixzz1AZVHE4bW

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I don't really know much about this whole dealio, just posting this up to add to the discussion.

 

 

 

 

Who is Jared Lee Loughner?

Mark Potok

Director of the Southern Poverty Law Center’s Intelligence Project

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-potok/who-is-jared-lee-loughner_b_806500.html

 

Is Jared Lee Loughner, the alleged mass murderer who shot U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona, a right-wing extremist?

 

It's hard to say. When you look at the Internet material he purportedly produced, the first impression you get is that the 22-year-old now in custody for the shooting of 19 people in Tucson was completely out of his mind, or at least mildly deranged. His writings will be virtually impossible for most people to understand, what with his references to unexplained numbers, his fondness for weird syllogisms, his unexplained references and his apparent semi-literacy.

 

That said, there are some clues.

 

At one point, Loughner refers disparagingly to "currency that's not backed by gold or silver." The idea that silver and gold are the only "constitutional" money is widespread in the antigovernment "Patriot" movement that produced so much violence in the 1990s. It's linked to the core Patriot theory that the Federal Reserve is actually a private corporation run for the benefit of unnamed international bankers. So-called Patriots say paper money -- what they refer to with a sneer as "Federal Reserve notes" -- is not lawful.

 

At another, Loughner makes extraordinarily obscure comments about language and grammar, suggesting that the government engages in "mind control on the people by controlling grammar." That's not the kind of idea that's very common out there, even on the Internet. In fact, I think it's pretty clear that Loughner is taking ideas from Patriot conspiracy theorist David Wynn Miller of Milwaukee. Miller claims that the government uses grammar to "enslave" Americans and offers up his truly weird "Truth-language" as an antidote. For example, he says that if you add colons and hyphens to your name in a certain way, you are no longer taxable. Miller may be mad as a hatter, but he has a real following on the right.

 

Loughner talks about how you "can't trust the government" and someone burns a U.S. flag in one of his videos. Although certain right-wing websites are already using that (and his listing of The Communist Manifesto as one of his favorite books) to claim that Loughner was a "left-winger," that does not strike me as true. The main enemy of the Patriot movement is certainly the federal government. And so-called Patriots have certainly engaged in acts like burning the flag.

 

Finally, I think Loughner's reading list, although it included children's books and a few classics, had an underlying theme -- the individual versus the totalitarian state. Certainly, that's the explicit central theme of Ayn Rand's We the Living and Orwell's 1984 and Animal Farm, among others. I would argue that that's the way Loughner seems to be reading The Communist Manifesto and Hitler's Mein Kampf -- as variants of a kind of generalized "smash the state" attitude.

 

Chip Berlet of Political Research Associates points out in a post earlier today that Loughner also makes a reference to a "second American constitution." As Chip notes, that is commonly understood to refer to the Reconstruction amendments that freed the slaves and gave them citizenship, among other things. Chip says that "raises the question of a possible racist and anti-immigrant tie" in the Arizona shooting.

 

On top of that, Fox News is reporting on an internal Department of Homeland Security message suggesting some tie between Loughner and American Renaissance, a kind of white-collar racist group.

 

I can't speak to those allegations. Outside of what Chip pointed out, I didn't see anything that suggested racial, anti-Semitic or anti-immigrant animus in Loughner's writings. Certainly, there's nothing I saw at all reminiscent of American Renaissance, which focuses heavily on the alleged intellectual and psychological inferiority of black people.

 

At this early stage, I think Loughner is probably best described as a mentally ill or unstable person who was influenced by the rhetoric and demonizing propaganda around him. Ideology may not explain why he allegedly killed, but it could help explain how he selected his target.

 

One thing that seems clear is that Giffords, who was terribly wounded but survived, was the nearest and most obvious representative of "the government" that Loughner could find. Another is that he likely absorbed some of his anger from the vitriolic political atmosphere in the United States in general and Arizona in particular. Perhaps no one made that point better than Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, speaking to a press conference yesterday. "When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government... The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous and unfortunately Arizona has become sort of the capital. We have become the mecca for prejudice and bigotry."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Casek: It takes a significant percentage of irresponsible hamburger eaters a significant amount of time to eat enough hamburgers to get obese. It takes one nut bag 60 seconds to massacre 20 old people and children. Without a broad public health system the hamburger eaters are only harming themselves. With a broad public health system you need a large number of hamburger eaters over a long period of time to get to a point that it harms society. One nut with gun can harm a large amount of others within seconds without brining any harm to himself/herself.

 

Your analogy is such a long bow to draw that I see it as unworkable. The more guns you have in your system the easier it is for militants, nutjobs and crims to get ahold of them and the higher the chance that shit like this will happen. Pretty simple logic and pretty hard to argue against.

 

 

i think you lost all credibility by posting that nonsense from the SPLC...

this is the same group that thinks glenn beck is the leader of the aryan resistance movement set on overthrowing the US government.

 

 

as for the gun argument, casek's logic is right on. in the end we are talking about death. for some reason, the left, anti gunners, hoplophobes place importance on the fact that firearms are capable of instant death.

a better example casek could of used is cars. 40-50K people die every year in car accidents in the US. if you are concerned about possibilities of large 'casualties,' you must also ban cars. "its pretty simple logic and pretty hard to argue against." one guy with a perfectly legal car can mow down an entire crowd of people, VERY easily.

 

all this aside, i think im going to stock up on full capacity glock mags. ASAP. they are probably going to be gone soon.

 

if you are interested in the facts, it has also been reported dudes favorite books included the communist manifesto and mein kampf. a class mate described this murder suspect as a left winger.

 

but this is just clouding up a good story about a racist gun nut using lax US gun laws to kill everyone in the US and the only thing stopping everyone in the US from instant death is the ever wise all nothing federal leviathan on the shores of the potomac.

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Guns are designed to kill. Cars are not.

 

and your point?

this makes the killing of someone with a car some how less lethal or less morally wrong?

all my guns are used to punch holes in paper and ring steel. they are simply tools, just like a hammer or pair of scissors.

 

if guns are ultimately the problem, and not immoral deranged psycho's that like to kill people, then whenever someone shoots someone, all they have to do is say..."NO! it wasnt ME! why, im standing right here, that there gun went off and THE BULLET killed that person! i had nothing to do with it.'

 

people are who kill people. and they use various tools to do so. banning inanimate objects doesnt solve anything. despite something having a purpose to kill... doesnt this lead to a bigger discussion?

do you have a problem with a FLEA (federal law enforcement agent) shooting someone who might be trying to kill you? who do you call when your life is in danger? why do anti gun senators have armed guards if they dont believe in guns and the fact that they have a legitimate use? dont some people NEED to be killed, such as someone trying to kill you? would you rather have your 80 year old grandmother, who is sleeping and wakes up to an armed robber ready to kill, with a telephone ready to call the police who are always minutes away when seconds count, or would you rather have her have the great equalizer and let this guy have it? i dont like repeat offenders, i like dead offenders. and sometimes, just sometimes, firearms whether with guns in the hands of a private citizen or in the hands of an agent of the state..... these crazy criminals need to be killed in order to defend innocents.

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how is it ridiculous when you are twice as likely to be killed by a car than by a firearm?

its just a phenomenon that people cant face. is the 'terrorist' threat really that much of a threat? im sure you are more likely to be struck by lightning 20 times than be killed by a terrorist.

 

the same sort of thing can be said about snakes. something like 5-10 people die of a snake bite in the US per year. yet, any urban dweller, constantly harps about snakes and is terrified to death when they walk into a habitat where snakes live. yet you are much more likely to drown in your own bath tub than be killed by a snake.

 

it boils down to the fact that people are scared of guns and they think that because a gun the ability to kill as well as punch paper, just like a hammer can drive nails or crash in a skull, it is some how more scary than objects that people are generally more familiar with. anyone who was raised around guns, owns guns or is not part of some urban hipster liberal statist culture, knows the truth

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I'd like to see someone kill another person with a cheeseburger.

 

Guns are dangerous, cars are dangerous, they are both less dangerous in the hands of a responsible owner, but still dangerous.

 

 

People kill themselves with cheeseburgers every day.

 

BAN HATCHETS!!

http://www.examiner.com/violent-crime-in-national/two-women-assailed-by-hatchet-wielding-man-before-being-saved-by-brave-neighbor

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i think some people are misunderstanding the 'cheeseburger' argument.

 

no one is saying cheeseburgers can be using in a manner such as a gun to kill someone.

the argument is that if governments or people who lobby said government/monopoly on force are to be used to ban objects that can cause death... you cant just argue for banning guns. you must also argue to ban cars as 40K people a year die because of cars. you must also ban trans fats (CHEESEBURGERS), sugar/HFCS, bungee jumping, white water rafting, sky diving, cigarettes, alcohol, drugs, etc ad infinitum because all these kill people.

 

as for guns being inherently dangerous, i dont really buy into that. i can assure you that any firearm that is sitting on a shelf, is posing no harm whatsoever to anyone. someone has to pull the trigger. where as the hoplophobes try to claim that the mere existence of an inanimate object is an actual threat to life liberty and property of others. can guns and cars dangerous? yeah. but when you boil it down... life is dangerous. there is no such thing as life without risk.

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People these days are just frightened. With good reason, too. With so many things happening worldwide. Us being connected and receiving news via the internet almost instantaneously. It's almost impossible to avoid "bad" news.

 

Guns seem to be involved in a lot of bad news. That really blows. In Liberia they use machete's. Guns aren't quite as plentiful and people can't really afford them. Machete's, though...damn. You can probably get a whole gang of machete's for as much as a good rifle.

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but, but, but, but,.... the machete genocides in africa arent bad at all, because, uh, well, a machete was DESIGNED and, uh, was created with the intention of just merely hacking trails through brush and trimming trees and bushes!

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i think some people are misunderstanding the 'cheeseburger' argument.

 

no one is saying cheeseburgers can be using in a manner such as a gun to kill someone.

the argument is that if governments or people who lobby said government/monopoly on force are to be used to ban objects that can cause death... you cant just argue for banning guns. you must also argue to ban cars as 40K people a year die because of cars. you must also ban trans fats (CHEESEBURGERS), sugar/HFCS, bungee jumping, white water rafting, sky diving, cigarettes, alcohol, drugs, etc ad infinitum because all these kill people.

 

 

So I can rob a gas station with trans fats? I can maim a US Congresswoman with white water rafting accessories? Its not guns... its CRIME with guns. Cheeseburgers dont enhance the violent nature of crime, but a gun does. I dont think if this nutjob was armed with cheeseburgers the results would have been the same.

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