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lord_casek

N Korea/S Korea may be going to war

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http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AM0TZ20101123

 

(Reuters) - North Korea on Tuesday fired dozens of artillery shells at a South Korean island, setting buildings on fire and prompting a return fire by the South, Seoul's military and media reports said.

Seoul's YTN television quoted a witness as saying 60 to 70 houses were on fire after the shelling.

The military confirmed the exchange of firing, without providing more details.

(Reporting by Seoul bureau; Writing by Yoo Choonsik; Editing by Jeremy Laurence)

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/11/23/world/asia/AP-AS-Koreas-Tension.html?_r=1&hp

 

Live coverage

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/talkplaylove

 

http://www.livestation.com/channels/3-al_jazeera_english

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I keep trying to catch Christo on gmail, but I'm sure he's pretty busy.

Some of what I was seeing on Al Jazeera earlier is saying this isn't

anything big, but it sounds big. Several soldiers from the South are dead,

also civvies.

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Pyongyang says Tuesday’s attack on a South Korean island was in response to firing from the South. Seoul has admitted it had been firing rockets in military exercises, but says they were not targeted at the North. Two marines were killed in the attack on the South’s border island. The conflict is the most violent between the two countries since the end of the Korean War in 1953.

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"The skirmish began when Pyongyang warned the South to halt military drills in the area, according to South Korean officials. When Seoul refused and began firing artillery into disputed waters, albeit away from the North Korean shore, the North retaliated by bombarding the small island of Yeonpyeong, which houses South Korean military installations..."

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While North Korean leader Kim Jong Il is a madman, and while North Korea was the first to kill anyone in today's skirmish, it was actually the South Koreans who fired first.

 

As AP notes:

 

The skirmish began when Pyongyang [i.e. North Korea] warned the South to halt military drills in the area, according to South Korean officials. When Seoul [i.e. South Korea] refused and began firing artillery into disputed waters, albeit away from the North Korean shore, the North retaliated by bombarding the small island of Yeonpyeong, which houses South Korean military installations....

 

And see this.

 

In addition, the two South Koreans killed were marines, not civilians, stationed in a military town.

 

Obviously, firing artillery into the water and actually killing people are very different, and I am in no way defending North Korea or its crazy leader. I am simply trying to point out that the headlines can't be taken in a vacuum.

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What can I say; here we go again!

 

I hardly need to go down the list of lies used to start US wars. We have been though that over and over again.

Nor do I need to elucidate on the many reasons why the US Government is in desperate need for yet another war with which to scare the American people into acceptance of more takes and fewer rights and freedoms.

 

Anyone with half a brain realizes that the US Government, unable to gain support for an invasion of Iran, has changed gears and decided that North Korea will be the next step towards World War III.

 

 

Six months ago the US tried to trick you into war with North Korea. You didn't fall for it.

 

Please don't fall for it now.

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An excerpt from the just published book "War Is A Lie" http://warisalie.org

 

After two world wars with a depression in between, none of which Americans had submitted to voluntarily, President Harry S Truman had some bad news. If we didn't set off immediately to fight communists in Korea, they would shortly invade the United States. That this was recognized as patent nonsense is perhaps suggested by the fact that, once again, Americans had to be drafted if they were going to go off and fight. The Korean War was waged in supposed defense of the way of life in the United States and in supposed defense of South Korea against aggression by North Korea. Of course it had been the arrogant genius of the Allies to slice the Korean nation in half at the end of World War II.

 

On June 25, 1950, the north and the south each claimed the other side had invaded. The first reports from U.S. military intelligence were that the south had invaded the north. Both sides agreed that the fighting began near the west coast at the Ongjin peninsula, meaning that Pyongyang was a logical target for an invasion by the south, but an invasion by the north there made little sense as it led to a small peninsula and not to Seoul. Also on June 25th, both sides announced the capture by the south of the northern city of Haeju, and the U.S. military confirmed that. On June 26th, the U.S. ambassador sent a cable confirming a southern advance: "Northern armor and artillery are withdrawing all along the line."

 

South Korean President Syngman Rhee had been conducting raids of the north for a year and had announced in the spring his intention to invade the north, moving most of his troops to the 38th parallel, the imaginary line along which the north and south had been divided. In the north only a third of available troops were positioned near the border. Nonetheless, Americans were told that North Korea had attacked South Korea, and had done so at the behest of the Soviet Union as part of a plot to take over the world for communism.

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70,000 SOUTH Korean troops plus some U.S. "advisers" were taking part in an Invade NORTH Korea drill at the time.

 

i lol'd irl at this

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a friend of mine who is from s korea says they (s korea) have been wanting to start that war back up since it ended.

it seems they'd love to overrun the north and absorb it into their country.

 

when i spoke with him at length about it, the US government had little to nothing to do with it.

they are sick and tired of living in that cease-fire limbo and want to crush the north after all the suffering they cause their own people.

 

this is hardly comparable to the US invasion of Iraq

and to say that it is the same thing is an oversimplification, imo.

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The last thing the US wants is another war.

 

ROK doesn't want a war, they want peaceful reunification.

 

China wants DPRK to open up economically and stop this shit because it precipitates an arms race on its borders.

 

DPRK fires artillery shells in to ROK waters on a semi-regular basis, ROK says that no rounds landed north of the Northern Limit Line. The line is disputed so when people say 'sovereign territory' you need to take that in the correct context. Keep in mind that the North sunk an ROK vessel killing over 40 Southerners in March this year in what was basically an unprovoked attack. The North also fired rounds across the DMZ last month unprovoked as well. Keep this in context.

 

KJI and KJU are looking to mobilise the military and allow KJU to take command in order to solidify his position at the top of the military in preparation for a hand over of power in 2012 (or if KJI dies sooner).

 

The exercises that are taking place are an annual event, the US usually takes part in these exercises but opted out this year (of this specific one).

 

 

The US definitely does not want conflict in Korea, it would much rather focus its attention on both Afghanistan/Pakistan and Iran right now. It doesn't have the capacity to deal with a 3rd theatre right now.

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What can I say; here we go again!

 

I hardly need to go down the list of lies used to start US wars. We have been though that over and over again.

Nor do I need to elucidate on the many reasons why the US Government is in desperate need for yet another war with which to scare the American people into acceptance of more takes and fewer rights and freedoms.

 

Anyone with half a brain realizes that the US Government, unable to gain support for an invasion of Iran, has changed gears and decided that North Korea will be the next step towards World War III.

 

 

Six months ago the US tried to trick you into war with North Korea. You didn't fall for it.

 

Please don't fall for it now.

 

I'm sorry, but this completely inaccurate. The US held Israel back from hitting Iran by not supplying them with the weapons required for the job and refusing to send carriers in to support the strike. You need to pay more attention to the logistics required for an attack on Iran before you make calls on what 'happened'.

 

Without trying to be rude or condescending I'd like to suggest that you take a more objective view of the world. Yes the US does use propaganda for its efforts in the world, as does every other country. Singling the US out is a very lopsided approach to understanding things. I'm not saying it's right (or wrong) just commenting on the way things work for every country, which the US fits in with.

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The last thing the US wants is another war.

 

ROK doesn't want a war, they want peaceful reunification.

 

China wants DPRK to open up economically and stop this shit because it precipitates an arms race on its borders.

 

DPRK fires artillery shells in to ROK waters on a semi-regular basis, ROK says that no rounds landed north of the Northern Limit Line. The line is disputed so when people say 'sovereign territory' you need to take that in the correct context. Keep in mind that the North sunk an ROK vessel killing over 40 Southerners in March this year in what was basically an unprovoked attack. The North also fired rounds across the DMZ last month unprovoked as well. Keep this in context.

 

KJI and KJU are looking to mobilise the military and allow KJU to take command in order to solidify his position at the top of the military in preparation for a hand over of power in 2012 (or if KJI dies sooner).

 

The exercises that are taking place are an annual event, the US usually takes part in these exercises but opted out this year (of this specific one).

 

 

The US definitely does not want conflict in Korea, it would much rather focus its attention on both Afghanistan/Pakistan and Iran right now. It doesn't have the capacity to deal with a 3rd theatre right now.

 

Will KJU go to war with south korea in 2012?

would america feel obliged to aid south korea?

 

this is interesting

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Yeah, let's hope this doesn't happen.

 

Crosses fingers.

 

Yeah, agreed. People of DPRK suffer enough as it is without them dying for the Kim family's benefit.

 

Not to mention the US, ROK and other citizens that are dying as well.

 

I heard a good term for the DPRK government the other day 'Criminal family regime'. Sounds pretty appropriate, also for Zimbabwe, Myanmar, possibly Egypt and Syria and any other number of autocratic regimes that treat their country/people like their own property.

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Will KJU go to war with south korea in 2012?

would america feel obliged to aid south korea?

 

this is interesting

 

Any full scale war between the two counties holds one of the highest risks in the world today of a nuclear strike (in my opinion), up there with India and Pakistan.

 

Seoul is close to the border and DPRK has about 15,000 long range artillery pieces and surface-to-surface missiles on constant alert. As soon as Pyang gets the feeling that ROK/US/JAPAN are coming after the country's leadership each artillery piece will open up. That would obliterate Seoul, the population and the economy. It's a 'nuclear option' without being a nuclear weapon.

 

ROK is an ally of the US and is officially under the US nuclear umbrella (tactical US nukes were removed from ROK in 1996..., might need to check on that date, though), around 25,000 US troops are stationed in ROK and if any war broke out on the peninsula there is no way the US could not be involved as DPRK missiles would immediately target their base.

 

However, in saying this the Kims are by no means irrational and suicidal. They live in ultimate power and luxury, they want to keep that going so there is little chance they would start an all out war being that it is hard to see how it could be contained and that it wouldn't spiral out of control. Then there is the China card, check the Korean war (1950-53) history for an idea of what China would do in any war on the peninsula.

 

The reason why we see shit on the West coast in the sea like this is because it can be contained to the sea. Lob artillery rounds across the DMZ and it is hard to see that not spiraling out of control. Also the area is disputed so there is an 'acceptable' rational for skirmishes. Lastly, the NLL blocks DPRK access to its southern most warm water port decreasing economic opportunities and the islands on the southern side also contain DPRK militarily. Google a map of the NLL and you instantly see Pyangs reason for not accepting the NLL.

 

Expect another testing of a nuclear device before too long.

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