AZ Signs 1st Anti-Immigration Law

[Guest Ginger Bread Man]

Casek

 

exactly and how can you filter or weed out the bad. We are talking millions of people. How can the issue be resolved readily? It can't.

 

 

As far as how I feel about the whole thing.

 

I'm second gen American and although only my mom is US born; both my parents are citizens .

 

I could even say 3rd gen American because my grandmother(moms side) is a US citizen.

 

On my fathers side both my grandparents had tourist visas.

 

Having said this I have to add that I had never really thought about how I feel on the subject.

 

I am not in the least bit prejudice against ANY peoples or cultures therefore to now he way I see it is, people are people no matter what country they are from. Any person be it black white yellow or brown deserves respect along with life liberty the pursuit of happiness and financial/emotional stability.

 

Financially Mexico is fucked because of rampant corruption on every level therefore I can understand and might I add sympathize with my brethren for coming to he US in search for a land rich in milk and honey.

 

This latter point I mention because In all actuality I feel as though the only entity to blame is the US government.

 

All these poor sap Immigrants were lured here by big business/big government and like everything else now they yell fire when things have gotten far beyond control.

 

Let the bureaucrats deal with the mess they themselves created and are now passing down upon this great nation.

 

We have only ourselves to blame for one of the largest migrations the world has ever witnessed.

 

You can yell all you want about wet backs taking jobs but unless we as a nation get off our fat lazy asses, start taking these min wage jobs ourselves, change our entire way of living and bring back the trades which this nation was founded upon that this problem will be resolved.

 

We want fresh produce all year long as well as the best "competitive" prices however do not wish to share the burden this entails.

basically it is all at someones expense. everyone except US that is.

 

Or alas we have jumped off into the deep end o the pool already and there is no cure for a cancer we created.

 

 

No political oner

[cunt sauce]

People who are for illegal immigration are 9 times out of ten little spoil upper-class brats.

 

Illegal immigration is a cancer on society. It dumps wages, erodes the tax base and turns whole part of society to the black market.

 

This is nothing but pure class warfare.

 

People who are against illegal immigration are 9 times out of ten ignorant lower-class rednecks who want someone to blame for their problems. Seriously, what's your excuse for not doing anything with your lives? The Mexicans? Give me a break. Try educating yourself, its not that hard to go to a bum-fuck tech or vocational college.

 

(see how generalizations and attacks do nothing for this discussion)

 

The black market would not exist if it weren't for drug laws and if you knew anything about what went down into the increase of Mexican immigration to the U.S. maybe you would have a different viewpoint, or at least a better understanding of the issue on the whole. I recommend looking into the North American Free Trade Agreement and U.S. Agricultural subsidies.

[cunt sauce]

Casek

 

 

 

We have only ourselves to blame for one of the largest migrations the world has ever witnessed.

 

 

We want fresh produce all year long as well as the best "competitive" prices however do not wish to share the burden this entails.

basically it is all at someones expense. everyone except US that is.

 

 

 

No political oner

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/27/business/us-corn-subsidies-said-to-damage-mexico.html?pagewanted=1

 

 

what i find funny is that we actually took their jobs as corn farmers! our taxes go to large agribuisnesses like ADM so they can sell corn at a cheaper price. All the commodity gets dumped onto the developing or third world, and their farmers can't compete with our artificially cheap prices.

 

the whole point of this was to LOCK the third world into poverty. we don't want the people of Ghana, Mexico and Benin to be able to sustain themselves with their own crops. We want them to be completely dependent on food aid, because there are U.S. companies profiting off of the billions in sending crops overseas. the u.s. could possibly be doing this not only for profits, but also to flex our dominance and control as a super power over the rest of the world.

 

when people put no insight past, "They're drug smugglers and Rapists and they're takin our jobs and stealin our taxes" it can be really annoying, almost UMAD-ning.

[lord_casek]

Illegal immigrants plan to leave over Ariz. law

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100428/ap_on_re_us/us_immigration_day_labor

 

Many day laborers like Diaz say they will leave Arizona because of the law, which also makes it a crime to be in the U.S. illegally and directs police to question people about their immigration status if there is reason to suspect they are illegal immigrants.

 

 

 

The law's supporters hope the departure of illegal immigrants will help dismantle part of the underground economy here and create jobs for thousands of legal residents in a state with a 9.6 percent unemployment rate.

 

 

 

 

 

I wonder what the outcome of this will be? I guess we have to wait and see if it's good for the state or bad for it.

[autoteller]

honestly, the most out of control people over here are illegals. i honestly don't care if you're illegal or not, but if your conduct is fucking up my neighborhood, then get the fuck out. ALL the violent crime that's been going on around here lately is strictly illegals on my street. halloween - dude was robbing people with a kitchen knife for beer because he was banned from the local liquor store, even when there's another 5 blocks away (illegal), a few days later, guy stabbed in the face with a broken bottle (victim, and aggressor both illegal), multiple stabbings over the winter (performed specifically by illegals), attempted rape not even a month ago (performed BY an illegal). I'm not saying that only illegals perform violent, illegal activity, but the ones around here, and i'd imagine in a lot more places treat the US like a vacation from responsibility or civil behavior. this law would be a godsend around here, and maybe we'd have less fucking cops constantly patrolling, looking for 15 people hanging out on a staircase drinking beer straight on the street, throwing the bottles at other buildings. i'm sick of this shit, and i'd imagine when you can just jump across a border that's less than 50 miles away from you, it must be way worse. i hope this sets a precedence for other states if this works though. i have no problem with people coming from other countries, who have the same documentation as you and me, and ability to work, pay taxes, and lead a normal life, but it'd be goddamn nice to give the police the ability (yes give the police yet another ability) to get the ones they know that are starting shit to get deported immediately. god knows the ones that don't start shit, live a decent life, and aren't abusing the system will essentially get left alone.

 

fuck any monetary reason for illegal immigration, i solely want my neighborhood safe again. why is it that out of a city that has thousands, and thousands in it, the only ones that i see that make things dangerous and unsafe for us are illegals, and strictly illegals. fuck that shit.

[lord_casek]

honestly, the most out of control people over here are illegals. i honestly don't care if you're illegal or not, but if your conduct is fucking up my neighborhood, then get the fuck out. ALL the violent crime that's been going on around here lately is strictly illegals on my street. halloween - dude was robbing people with a kitchen knife for beer because (illegal), a few days later, guy stabbed in the fac

 

 

That's where the lack of policing comes into play. Seems like cops just like to shock people

these days and bust pot smokers instead of cleaning up the crime.

 

I like to laugh at the Mexican teenagers here b/c they all have that guido hair, etc. They all seriously look like they stepped off that Jersey Shore show. They don't cause any trouble, though. Like I said, this is a pretty racist part of the country. They would be fools to do any

shooting up or robbing.

 

Seems like a lot of the bad folk here are redneck, white, and crackheads. I hate these people.

[iloveboxcars]

Jesus. as soon as mexico doesnt keep their southern border heavily guarded, treating anyone that gets through MUCH WORSE than america does, i'll think about caring about ILLEGAL immigration "rights"

 

Some of you try to make the argument that illegals have to jump through so many hoops after they get here just to get a drivers license. Oh no! You mean you got around the system and now have to go further around the system in order to stay here? OH HOW HORRIBLE!.

 

This has nothing to do with racism like a whole lot of ignorant people seem to think (on 12oz and outside of 12oz)

 

And trying to say a company that is able to have lower prices is doing it only to spite the workers in 3rd world countries and keep them down is one of the most laughable concepts I have ever been exposed to.

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

I'd have to say if you aren't attempting to become a citizen, learn english, and participate in society like everyone else, be prepared to be treated like a criminal, because you are.

 

You shouldn't be able to become a citizen just because you can get into the United States, regardless if it's getting on a plane, or running across the border. If you think it is a ploy against your race, you're just being stupid.

 

The drug violence that is going on is a direct result of the war on drugs. The legalization of marijuana would certainly weaken drug cartels. If the rest of the illegal drugs we're to be legalized their power would be almost immediately taken away. I'm sure they would try to fight to retain some of this power, but eventually it would be all gone.

 

As far as paying illegal's to work instead of citizen's due to the fact that you can pay illegal's less, because well they aren't citizen's and don't have the same rights, this is another issue all together, and like most here have said, those people participating in such activities should be punished, via fines, and if that doesn't work eventually prison time.

 

This law is a step in the wrong direction and set's a precedent. This could easily extend to everyone in the state of Arizona, the rest of the southern states that border Mexico, and eventually the rest of the United States. It's not even about the illegal's at this point, it is about the actual citizen's who are of Latino descent that will have their rights violated, for no reason at all.

[herbsyntec]

learn english

English is not the official language of the US. For the record.

[Zig]

English is not the official language of the US. For the record.

 

there is no official U.S language, but learning English is high priority. a combination of English and Spanish is probably best.

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

English is not the official language of the US. For the record.

 

I was under the assumption that to become a citizen you have to proof that you are proficient in the English language.

 

I'm not talking about official languages here.

 

If I am incorrect, my b.

[lord_casek]

I was under the assumption that to become a citizen you have to proof that you are proficient in the English language.

 

I'm not talking about official languages here.

 

If I am incorrect, my b.

 

 

Pretty sure this is right. It kinda makes me mad that some folks, whether Hispanic or whatever, don't attempt to learn English when they come here. When most English speaking people travel abroad they attempt to learn the native tongue. It's only right...then again, we're discussing something that goes beyond language barriers.

[Spitfire15]

I dont mind of they stay in a specific part of a city (ie. Little Havana) and can be completely self sufficient. But if they need something, and the only way they can get is by asking in English, then thats their own fucking fault. Ive had full grown adults use their infant child is a translator, and that shit blew me away. Come on now.

[Seph]

Pretty sure this is right. It kinda makes me mad that some folks, whether Hispanic or whatever, don't attempt to learn English when they come here. When most English speaking people travel abroad they attempt to learn the native tongue. It's only right...then again, we're discussing something that goes beyond language barriers.

 

Comparing English speaking travelers to say Spanish speaking ones is kind of unfair. People who travel from here to another country probably have enough resources to get those classes or basic knowledge they require in order to get by in said country.

There Adult schools out there that help them learn English and some of them do take advantage of them but learning another language as an adult can be difficult. Think about the average immigrant, most of them working in low paying jobs and working a minumum of 8 hours a day. At the end of the day the last thing they want to do is go to school.

Don't get me wrong, I too agree that English should be one of their priorities if they are to assimilate to this country but that's just not how it works out for them. Of course there are those who simply don't care to learn English and do not bother with it, it is mostly those who don't plan on staying here for too long.

[lord_casek]

Comparing English speaking travelers to say Spanish speaking ones is kind of unfair. People who travel from here to another country probably have enough resources to get those classes or basic knowledge they require in order to get by in said country.

There Adult schools out there that help them learn English and some of them do take advantage of them but learning another language as an adult can be difficult. Think about the average immigrant, most of them working in low paying jobs and working a minumum of 8 hours a day. At the end of the day the last thing they want to do is go to school.

Don't get me wrong, I too agree that English should be one of their priorities if they are to assimilate to this country but that's just not how it works out for them. Of course there are those who simply don't care to learn English and do not bother with it, it is mostly those who don't plan on staying here for too long.

 

 

Gotcha. I know there are a ton of things to think about that we, as citizens, probably don't even know how to consider.

[Mercer]

I can tell you as someone who's traveled his entire life and spent a lot of time overseas Americans generally speak way less 2nd languages compared to other People.

As far as learning a foreign language, as an adult it's 10 times harder, and after a certain age you'll never speak one without a thick accent.

That's probably one of the reasons we speak a foreign language from another country officially here in America.

I just can't fathom why someone speaking a forign language is so offensive.

 

 

I live in an area surrounded by around 14 small tight nit neighborhoods comprised of groups immigrants who brought their culture and language with them.

Maybe it's just my own opinion and I'm in the minority here but It doesn't bother me, not that I don't like Americans.

It would just suck if these communities were all acclimated into acting like a generic type of American to please insecure people.

I like the restaurants here and would hate it if they were all apple bee's and McDonald's and the processed frozen shit only lard laden Midwest tourists seek out when visiting.

I guess the point I'm getting at is people like different shit, tend to appear very different on the surface, and that's not a bad thing IMO.

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

I can tell you as someone who's traveled his entire life and spent a lot of time overseas Americans generally speak way less 2nd languages compared to other People.

As far as learning a foreign language, as an adult it's 10 times harder, and after a certain age you'll never speak one without a thick accent.

That's probably one of the reasons we speak a foreign language from another country officially here in America.

I just can't fathom why someone speaking a forign language is so offensive.

 

 

I live in an area surrounded by around 14 small tight nit neighborhoods comprised of groups immigrants who brought their culture and language with them.

Maybe it's just my own opinion and I'm in the minority here but It doesn't bother me, not that I don't like Americans.

It would just suck if these communities were all acclimated into acting like a generic type of American to please insecure people.

I like the restaurants here and would hate it if they were all apple bee's and McDonald's and the processed frozen shit only lard laden Midwest tourists seek out when visiting.

I guess the point I'm getting at is people like different shit, tend to appear very different on the surface, and that's not a bad thing IMO.

 

Dude it's not about being insecure, or being "offensive". Those are the rules.

 

Like I have said earlier, if you want to discuss the difficulty level of the actual citizenship process that is another argument all together.

 

The problem is, the people who come here don't care about the United States, they care about their own personal benefit. The fact is they leech off of the public works that are supposed to exist for CITIZENS. That is the problem. They also do so, without even attempting to become an actual citizen.

 

No insecurities over here. I love Mexican's. I've worked with plenty of illegal's over my life time. I've taken trips to Mexico, the people there are unbelievably kind. I mean I just love how you can even logically be against illegal immigrants and people still think you're a racist, or you're scared of Mexicans.

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

Pretty sure this is right. It kinda makes me mad that some folks, whether Hispanic or whatever, don't attempt to learn English when they come here. When most English speaking people travel abroad they attempt to learn the native tongue. It's only right...then again, we're discussing something that goes beyond language barriers.

 

Word my post went beyond the language issue though. I was just trying to make a point.

[cunt sauce]

 

And trying to say a company that is able to have lower prices is doing it only to spite the workers in 3rd world countries and keep them down is one of the most laughable concepts I have ever been exposed to.

 

 

 

A company isn't able to have lower prices without the help of ohhh... 7 billion dollars a year. Thats just for corn too!

 

Certain types of food aid (when not for emergency relief) can actually be destructive. Dumping food on to poorer nations (i.e. free, subsidized, or cheap food, below market prices) undercuts local farmers, who cannot compete and are driven out of jobs and into poverty, further slanting the market share of the larger producers such as those from the US and Europe.

 

Which is why illegal immigration into the U.S. exploded since NAFTA. You can argue all you want about if Free trade is okay or not, but if you're against illegal immigration you better damn well be against the North American Free Trade Agreement and Agricultural subsidies because that is what fuels it.

[cunt sauce]

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

Fuck NAFTA.

 

:D

[angelofdeath]

 

 

A company isn't able to have lower prices without the help of ohhh... 7 billion dollars a year. Thats just for corn too!

 

Certain types of food aid (when not for emergency relief) can actually be destructive. Dumping food on to poorer nations (i.e. free, subsidized, or cheap food, below market prices) undercuts local farmers, who cannot compete and are driven out of jobs and into poverty, further slanting the market share of the larger producers such as those from the US and Europe.

 

Which is why illegal immigration into the U.S. exploded since NAFTA. You can argue all you want about if Free trade is okay or not, but if you're against illegal immigration you better damn well be against the North American Free Trade Agreement and Agricultural subsidies because that is what fuels it.

 

i'd like to point out that 'free trade' is not NAFTA. nafta is govt managed trade and basically is protectionism.

 

farm subsidies are probably the most idiotic things our government does, YET if you oppose farm subsidies, you 'HATE FARMERS!!!'

 

it boils down to this:

if you cannot compete with others, if you cant pull your own weight, get out of the business and do something productive. (which is what i wish all the bureaucrats do... disband, go home and get paid for their actual production, under minimum wage. perhaps they can get a job at mcdonalds or a janitor at a shopping mall) i continually hear people on campaigns about buying 'local.' most of these types equate 'local' with 'healthy' because of the organic food movement which is just completely out of hand and is the latest gimmick of gimmicks in my opinion. i hear that 'transportation' cost is the major cost in food. yet looking purely at economics... if i buy a 'local' watermelon from a 'local' fruit stand, i will pay about 9$. a equally as scrumptious watermelon can be had in the supermarket across the street from across the country (which is 'local' to that part of the country) for half that price, with the across country transportation costs included.

 

now granted, i like to patronize 2 produce stands in the summer. i semi know the people, they are good people and i like to give them my money. i used to work on their cars at work, etc. but the economic reality is these people cannot compete and to top it off they have to loot americans pay checks to get hand outs! they get you coming and going. that 9 dollar watermelon probably really costs 20 bucks out of the taxpayers pocket in the end.

 

and this is the case for free trade... why should costa rica make maple syrup? and why should canada grow banana's when we all know who does what the most economically efficient.

[Guest Ginger Bread Man]

so i heard Joe was on a nazi rampage crusade yesterday stopping anyone and everyone he deemed an illegal.

 

he was about 5 block from my spot.

 

fucking asshole

[lord_casek]

so i heard Joe was on a nazi rampage crusade yesterday stopping anyone and everyone he deemed an illegal.

 

he was about 5 block from my spot.

 

fucking asshole

 

Did you see him in "American Drug War"? Dude is a nutball

[iloveboxcars]

They changed the wording on the legislation so it is less ambiguous. It now says "lawful stop, detention or arrest" as well as some other minor changes.

[angelofdeath]

im curious as to whether 'lawful stop' also means any police 'contact.'

or if 'lawful stop' means the cop has reasonable articulable suspicion to detain.

[Decyferon]

The problem is, the people who come here don't care about the United States, they care about their own personal benefit. The fact is they leech off of the public works that are supposed to exist for CITIZENS. That is the problem. They also do so, without even attempting to become an actual citizen.

 

I don't understand why someone would need to care about the country they live in in order for them to live there. I live in Wales (I'm not welsh, I'm English) I don't give a flying fuck about Wales, its history or anything like that, I live here because it is close to my old hometown and is cheaper for me to live here than there.

 

I don't see any difference between tax money being spent on an illegal immigrant to someone that is too lazy to work and gets welfare. Neither of them contribute, why should one benefit when the other doesn't?

 

Considering that most illegals are gonna be much more hard working and try to stay under the radar probably would mean they are less likely to be a burden on the state.

[screaming hand logo]

+2 agreement points for you

[angelofdeath]

"I don't see any difference between tax money being spent on an illegal immigrant to someone that is too lazy to work and gets welfare. Neither of them contribute, why should one benefit when the other doesn't?

 

Considering that most illegals are gonna be much more hard working and try to stay under the radar probably would mean they are less likely to be a burden on the state."

 

 

on point 1...

well said.

i think the main difference people see is just that one set is broke the law illegally entering the country and the other welfare recipients are here legally. i used to place alot of emphasis on this, but not so much any more. im sure ILOTS would agree that both are a drain, but if forced to choose he would rather have a citizen be a leach than an 'illegal' citizen.

 

i find myself constantly correcting people when they say...'illegals dont have the same RIGHTS as american citizens.' with which i reply... so we have the right to murder or rape an 'illegal alien' and not be held accountable?

what is meant to be said... is illegals dont have the same PRIVILEGES as citizens. which are things like welfare, social security, 'free' schooling, etc.

 

on point 2....

i think to an extent you are right. most illegals are harder working as most american citizens have figured out that due to minimum wage laws that outlaw certain working contracts under a certain wage and due to social welfare pay outs for some its easier and more economically efficient to try to find a way to get a hand out as they make more doing that with less effort than working for a living. i dont think the typical illegal alien has figured this out yet and are just happy to be making more money in the US than where they came from.

 

but i disagree that illegals are not a 'burden' on society. in fact one of the main arguments i think that holds weight you can hold that is against illegal immigration is that the illegals through their free schooling, hospital visits, and whatever other welfare programs are consumed... and paying essentially no taxes... you are actually increasing the burden on tax paying citizens to pay for these services for the illegal/non tax payers. the same can be said about the non tax payer or low wage earner that consumes lots of tax payer services while the tax payer is taxed ever more to pay for it. the more illegals that come in call for more infrastructure, school, etc.

 

but then again this undermines the entire system of social welfare. it is based on the idea that those who produce need to pay for those that dont. so to hold the belief that you must pay for the service in order to use it must also mean that you are more or less against the redistributionist state all together. which i am.

 

in my view, if you eliminate welfare handouts of every kind to non citizens... you eliminate most of the discontent about illegal immigration. couple that with a secure border and amending of the birth right citizenship clause and amnesty for illegal border crossing... you eliminate most of the problems associated with illegal immigration.

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

I don't understand why someone would need to care about the country they live in in order for them to live there. I live in Wales (I'm not welsh, I'm English) I don't give a flying fuck about Wales, its history or anything like that, I live here because it is close to my old hometown and is cheaper for me to live here than there.

 

I don't see any difference between tax money being spent on an illegal immigrant to someone that is too lazy to work and gets welfare. Neither of them contribute, why should one benefit when the other doesn't?

 

Considering that most illegals are gonna be much more hard working and try to stay under the radar probably would mean they are less likely to be a burden on the state.

 

For me personally, I think you should care about where you currently live, and the current condition the area you live in is in. I understand though, what you're saying.

 

But yeah like AOD has stated. I am against the majority of welfare programs anyway (except for extreme circumstances). I'm just saying illegals just add to the problem even further.