http://www.collateralmurder.org/

[Spitfire15]

So then everyone else sees RPG's and AK's, too. Awesome.

 

Am I missing a point?

[R@ndomH3ro]

This was not murder, this is a great example of what we call "the fog of war"

 

I looked at the video and it looks right, they did what they thought was right.

 

The unit on the ground is calling for fire support from the helio. The helio saw the individuals based on the units coordinates and they saw and identified the people shooting. They called to confirm and request to engage based on rules of engagement, they got permission from the unit commander to fire and they did.

 

Now, in a war where the enemies do not wear uniforms and are not in identifiable equipment....you are going to have some mishaps. Insurgents wear civilian clothes...so do...wait for it....civilians. Its hard in the heat of battle when you are getting shot at to easily identify who is a bad dude and who is not...fog of war...it happens, yes it is horrible but it happens.

 

That is why training is important, getting out in your sector and knowing who is who is important.

 

War is horrible, War is sad, but you know what was sadder? The torture and murder of thousands of Kurdish and Iraqi people under their dictator Saddam Hussein. And even today the fear and atrocities that the Iraqi people go through because of foreign and extremist fighters trying to cause a civil war in their country.

[lord_casek]

So then everyone else sees RPG's and AK's, too. Awesome.

 

Am I missing a point?

 

 

Yeah, just calling your attention to some better photo enhancements.

[christo-f]

Yeah, too easy to judge when it's not your arse in the hot seat.

[cunt sauce]

War is horrible, War is sad, but you know what was sadder? The torture and murder of thousands of Kurdish and Iraqi people under their dictator Saddam Hussein.

 

if the war in iraq was a humanitarian one why the hell weren't we in rwanda defending the lives of millions of tutsi's? 20% of the total population of that country was murdered.

 

America should be waging a war on Diarrhea. Do you know that around 6,000 children under the age of 5 die of diarrhea every day? Saving their lives would be a lot easier, cheaper, and safer. Little to no Americans would die in saving these children from preventable disease. We wouldn't have to kill anyone to "save lives" either.

 

Oh and do you know that more innocent civilians have been killed after US occupation than the amount killed under Saddam Huissen's rule?

 

furthermore, we didn't even invade iraq to save the kurds, silly. we invaded iraq to remove WMD's from their possesion. there aren't any. lets get the fuck out. i can't believe there is still a debate about this.

[nsmbfan]

so this justifies what happened in your opinion i'm assuming?

 

--------------------

 

this is just another example of why we shouldn't be engaged in these wars. this is one exposed event, out of many that we probably have no idea about. these very same things are probably occurring right now in the other areas of the world that we have initiated war in. initiated meaning; we have sent our troops to these foreign countries to fight these wars.

 

and the blood is on our hands too. the innocent people who died in this video is just as much our fault for allowing our elected officials and our government to be engaged in what occurred in Iraq, and is now occurring in Afghanistan, and Pakistan with drones and other unmanned vehicles of war. and we do NOTHING, it's disgusting. instead we have hypocritical movements in this country like the fucking "Tea Party" that would rather demonstrate against health care legislation and anti-socialism rather then just saying no to the entire system and all of these pointless wars.

 

i am so fucking sick of it. the soldiers in this video are an embarrassment to the bravery and courage of American's who fought REAL battles in the past and died for greater causes. they sit up in their control panels murdering unarmed innocent people from thousands of miles away like they are playing some kind of fucking video-game, and have the nerve to call it a BATTLE. but i don't even hate them for it, i feel SORRY for those who have become so desensitized to the killing that their only response to seeing dead children is "Well, they shouldn't have brought their kids into a BATTLE." you fucking buffoons,it wasn't a battle it was a slaughter!

 

man... anyone who justifies this shit is just sick, and what bothers me the most is i know for a fact this is nothing compared to the real atrocities that occur in the world.

 

war is digusting, fuck you if you make a living off of it.

 

i generally don't come into crossfire with the intention of throwing up a UMAD.... but... i mean if the shoe fits...

 

sorry i didn't really contribute anything. rip reporters.

[christo-f]

if the war in iraq was a humanitarian one why the hell weren't we in rwanda defending the lives of millions of tutsi's? 20% of the total population of that country was murdered.

 

America should be waging a war on Diarrhea. Do you know that around 6,000 children under the age of 5 die of diarrhea every day? Saving their lives would be a lot easier, cheaper, and safer. Little to no Americans would die in saving these children from preventable disease. We wouldn't have to kill anyone to "save lives" either.

 

Oh and do you know that more innocent civilians have been killed after US occupation than the amount killed under Saddam Huissen's rule?

 

furthermore, we didn't even invade iraq to save the kurds, silly. we invaded iraq to remove WMD's from their possesion. there aren't any. lets get the fuck out. i can't believe there is still a debate about this.

 

Yeah, let's just let Iran have the place. I mean, what bad could come of that?

[Spitfire15]

Iran is some pretty swell guys.

[cunt sauce]

aw finally guys, we have something we can agree upon.

[WORDISM45]

I don't at all think the us should just pull out now and create a power vacuum. But cuntsauce is on point let's not pretend that the US invaded Iraq for humanitarian purposes, I think most people with a mind of their own have realised this by now. And let's take it a step further and not pretend like the consequences of the invasion have been good regardless of the intent either.

[christo-f]

Agreed.

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

if the war in iraq was a humanitarian one why the hell weren't we in rwanda defending the lives of millions of tutsi's? 20% of the total population of that country was murdered.

 

America should be waging a war on Diarrhea. Do you know that around 6,000 children under the age of 5 die of diarrhea every day? Saving their lives would be a lot easier, cheaper, and safer. Little to no Americans would die in saving these children from preventable disease. We wouldn't have to kill anyone to "save lives" either.

 

Oh and do you know that more innocent civilians have been killed after US occupation than the amount killed under Saddam Huissen's rule?

 

furthermore, we didn't even invade iraq to save the kurds, silly. we invaded iraq to remove WMD's from their possesion. there aren't any. lets get the fuck out. i can't believe there is still a debate about this.

 

Especially because just like a lot of our other enemies, we created Sadaam and funded him. Gave him the weapons he used to commit those atrocities. Than we have to go back in and clean it up.

 

LOL!

 

Basically agree with everything you've said here.

[Zig]

i generally don't come into crossfire with the intention of throwing up a UMAD.... but... i mean if the shoe fits...

 

sorry i didn't really contribute anything. rip reporters.

 

yea i am pretty mad actually, i'm mad that our troops are being put through these conditions and illegal wars, and put into harms way, and mad that innocent people are dying, and at the atrocities committed under our name. i'm furious actually, but i guess others don't really care about that stuff as long as they can browse their forums and put on their sports game at the end of the night, everything is ok. '

 

yea, you didn't contribute anything. apology accepted.

 

you point out the weapons these men are holding in this picture. the rpg's, the ak's, and hold that as justification for these men getting slaughtered once again (including the camera men who were unarmed). let me remind you, the entire reasons for us being in that country were lies. let me remind you this was an illegal invasion and occupation, something our troops never should have been used for from the very beginning. you're telling me if iraqi's came over here to America you wouldn't be walking around with weapons to defend yourself? you wouldn't be fighting for your country? there is no black and white, right and wrong, good and bad. this is what war is, that why we shouldn't go to war unless it is absolutely necessary which this war wasn't. that's why we don't allow our politicians and leaders to send us to war based off of lies. we hold these people accountable, not the one's fighting the war, not the one's unfortunately taking part in these atrocities. but we can't even do that correctly, we just let them resign and write books about why we had to go to iraq and why it was good for the country. fucking joke.

 

oh trust me i know im not saying anything new. the fact that you've heard it all before and have a conscious disdain for the message is what bothers me the most.

[R@ndomH3ro]

if the war in iraq was a humanitarian one why the hell weren't we in rwanda defending the lives of millions of tutsi's? 20% of the total population of that country was murdered.

 

Good question and something that I can really quote on being an Africa Analyst.

 

Rwanda is not in any trouble right now, what you are talking about was the genocide back in 1994! Now the borders of Rwanda and the Democratic Republic of Congo are manned by UN forces and the US is involved. Not in a way of military force but in humanitarian aid and the training of their defunct armed forces into a professional military.

 

So there you go

[christo-f]

I'll answer it.

 

The US is not the world's police man. The US govt has no responsibility to the people of Rwanda or Africa. The US only has responsibility to US citizens and they benefit by the US being in Iraq..., well they would if it was managed a little better anyway. Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfawitz, Pearl and a number of others need to take responsibility for the way things have turned out. And a few of them have both publicly and privately. As much as I don't like his arrogance I give Wolfawitz full credit for taking his share of the blame for the way things have turned out and admitted he'd do things differently if he could.

 

However the strategic reasons for going in to the US were sound and of benefit to US citizens.

 

The Middle East and South Asia were producing a serious security threat to US interests. The threat to CONUS was incidental, sure 9/11 was horrible and you've had other shit like the Fort Hood shooting and threats to airlines, etc. But there is no strategic threat to the US, nothing that is going to threaten your hold on the country and the stability of your government. However, that was never the plan of al Qaeda, they wanted the Middle East/South Asia. From the Levant (maybe even Bosporus) to the Hundu-Kush/Punjab.

 

The strategic goal of AQ was to show that the US was weak, could be struck and that the govts that they support in the region (KSA, Yemen, Pakistan, Jordan, Egypt, etc) were entirely vulnerable. AQ wanted to take these countries and then roll on to the other Shiite states like Iran. Their goal was to control one of the most strategically important parts of the world under an Islamic caliphate. If that happened US interests would take a hit that it was unlikely to recover from and US citizens would suffer.

 

The biggest danger was that Iran and AQ would form an alliance of convenience and team up against the US (and later deal with each other, much like what the US did with Russia in the Second World War). the US could not let that happen and needed to destabilise the region, create a strong presence that it can keep there and contain Iran. That was the strategy and its principals are sound. It just wasn't executed well enough. They fell in to the trap of falling in love with their own assessments that supported their agenda and believed that they really would be welcomed with flower and song and within a year install a Western friendly government. This, if all went to plan, would have resulted in getting a great hold in the region with which to operate out of, giving AQ a red hot target, other than the US or weak states like KSA in the region in order to draw their attention, waste their resources and give the US a great reason to be there. All the while putting strong air, ground and intelligence assets right on the border of Iran. This would give great confidence to the Saudis, Egyptians, Jordanians and so on allowing them to crush the militant elements in their own country. A lovely little bonus of this is opening up Iraqi resources being that the sanctions would dissolve and allowing the US influence over resources that are sold to competitors like China and India.

 

This is not to discount the benefits this would bring to the Iraqi people. Saddam was a cunt and a threat to the whole region. Imagine if he was able to take Kuwait in the early 1990s and no one stopped him. He would then be looking elsewhere in order to control the Persian Gulf which puts him in control of the majority of oil in the world via control of the sea lane where it travels, that means the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. I don't think I need to explain why that would suck for everyone other than a small amount of aseholes hanging off Saddam's cock....

 

The current life of the Iraqis is not the best. But this is one generation's worth. There is much more hope for Iraqis in this condition than there was if Saddam was allowed to do what he wanted unchecked. Ask in 10 years whether it was worth it or whether they would like to go back under the Ba'athists.

 

 

The outcome has not gone to plan, Iran has way more leverage in the region now as a result and it has been 7 years when they thought it would be all said and done within a couple. That is something you can blame on the tacticians like Rumsfeld and his surgical strike bullshit. Blame those who put Chalabi on a fucking pedestal. But to say there was no reason to go in to Iraq and that the US citizens get nothing out of it is totally wrong.

 

If you want the US to go in to Rwanda, Sudan, North Korea, Burma/Myanmar, Somalia or anywhere else that doesn't satisfy your moralistic view of the way the world should be then don't complain when your taxes are 75% of your wage and 75% of able fighting citizens are conscripted and sent to all corners of the world.

 

If you think that the US should just pull its head in and leave the world to its own devices then don't complain when from Ireland to Japan to Australia is the Soviet Union or an Islamic caliphate run by fundamentalists. You will be charged $2000 a barrel of oil, lose Hawaii, Cuba and all the way to Mexico to either the Russians, Pan-Muslims or the Chinese. Then prepare to live your life the way some other global power decides AND DON'T FUCKING COMPLAIN ABOUT IT!

 

 

 

Seriously and this is aimed at no one in particular...., well, maybe Zig..., you guys really have to pull your heads out of your arses. If you think that no one would move in to take over if the US pulled out and went isolationist you are fucking stupid and totally oblivious to history.

 

 

Check these things out:

 

Assyrian Empire

Babylonian Empire

Persian empire

Roman Empire

Ottoman empire

British empire

Soviet Union

WW1

WW2

the Cold War

 

....just for starters.

 

 

Every country that has the slightest capability and capacity to control as much of the world as it can tries to do just that. If you think that others won't try to take over if the US wasn't running the show you're 100% retarded and don't understand shit.

 

 

I am not a citizen of the United States of America but I sure as fuck would rather them in charge than the Russians/Slavs, Iranians/Persians, AQ/Muslims, Chinese/Han.

 

 

Shut up and stop complaining.

 

If it wasn't for the brutalisation of others in their homes it would be the brutalisation of you in your home.

 

Welcome to reality, kids.

[russell jones]

I don't at all think the us should just pull out now and create a power vacuum. But cuntsauce is on point let's not pretend that the US invaded Iraq for humanitarian purposes, I think most people with a mind of their own have realised this by now. And let's take it a step further and not pretend like the consequences of the invasion have been good regardless of the intent either.

 

 

America will have to leave Iraq to its own devices eventually, whether it's now or later, I don't see a difference.

[russell jones]

I'll answer it.

 

The US is not the world's police man. The US govt has no responsibility to the people of Rwanda or Africa. The US only has responsibility to US citizens and they benefit by the US being in Iraq..., well they would if it was managed a little better anyway. Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfawitz, Pearl and a number of others need to take responsibility for the way things have turned out. And a few of them have both publicly and privately. As much as I don't like his arrogance I give Wolfawitz full credit for taking his share of the blame for the way things have turned out and admitted he'd do things differently if he could.

 

However the strategic reasons for going in to the US were sound and of benefit to US citizens.

 

The Middle East and South Asia were producing a serious security threat to US interests. The threat to CONUS was incidental, sure 9/11 was horrible and you've had other shit like the Fort Hood shooting and threats to airlines, etc. But there is no strategic threat to the US, nothing that is going to threaten your hold on the country and the stability of your government. However, that was never the plan of al Qaeda, they wanted the Middle East/South Asia. From the Levant (maybe even Bosporus) to the Hundu-Kush/Punjab.

 

The strategic goal of AQ was to show that the US was weak, could be struck and that the govts that they support in the region (KSA, Yemen, Pakistan, Jordan, Egypt, etc) were entirely vulnerable. AQ wanted to take these countries and then roll on to the other Shiite states like Iran. Their goal was to control one of the most strategically important parts of the world under an Islamic caliphate. If that happened US interests would take a hit that it was unlikely to recover from and US citizens would suffer.

 

The biggest danger was that Iran and AQ would form an alliance of convenience and team up against the US (and later deal with each other, much like what the US did with Russia in the Second World War). the US could not let that happen and needed to destabilise the region, create a strong presence that it can keep there and contain Iran. That was the strategy and its principals are sound. It just wasn't executed well enough. They fell in to the trap of falling in love with their own assessments that supported their agenda and believed that they really would be welcomed with flower and song and within a year install a Western friendly government. This, if all went to plan, would have resulted in getting a great hold in the region with which to operate out of, giving AQ a red hot target, other than the US or weak states like KSA in the region in order to draw their attention, waste their resources and give the US a great reason to be there. All the while putting strong air, ground and intelligence assets right on the border of Iran. This would give great confidence to the Saudis, Egyptians, Jordanians and so on allowing them to crush the militant elements in their own country. A lovely little bonus of this is opening up Iraqi resources being that the sanctions would dissolve and allowing the US influence over resources that are sold to competitors like China and India.

 

This is not to discount the benefits this would bring to the Iraqi people. Saddam was a cunt and a threat to the whole region. Imagine if he was able to take Kuwait in the early 1990s and no one stopped him. He would then be looking elsewhere in order to control the Persian Gulf which puts him in control of the majority of oil in the world via control of the sea lane where it travels, that means the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. I don't think I need to explain why that would suck for everyone other than a small amount of aseholes hanging off Saddam's cock....

 

The current life of the Iraqis is not the best. But this is one generation's worth. There is much more hope for Iraqis in this condition than there was if Saddam was allowed to do what he wanted unchecked. Ask in 10 years whether it was worth it or whether they would like to go back under the Ba'athists.

 

 

The outcome has not gone to plan, Iran has way more leverage in the region now as a result and it has been 7 years when they thought it would be all said and done within a couple. That is something you can blame on the tacticians like Rumsfeld and his surgical strike bullshit. Blame those who put Chalabi on a fucking pedestal. But to say there was no reason to go in to Iraq and that the US citizens get nothing out of it is totally wrong.

 

If you want the US to go in to Rwanda, Sudan, North Korea, Burma/Myanmar, Somalia or anywhere else that doesn't satisfy your moralistic view of the way the world should be then don't complain when your taxes are 75% of your wage and 75% of able fighting citizens are conscripted and sent to all corners of the world.

 

If you think that the US should just pull its head in and leave the world to its own devices then don't complain when from Ireland to Japan to Australia is the Soviet Union or an Islamic caliphate run by fundamentalists. You will be charged $2000 a barrel of oil, lose Hawaii, Cuba and all the way to Mexico to either the Russians, Pan-Muslims or the Chinese. Then prepare to live your life the way some other global power decides AND DON'T FUCKING COMPLAIN ABOUT IT!

 

 

 

Seriously and this is aimed at no one in particular...., well, maybe Zig..., you guys really have to pull your heads out of your arses. If you think that no one would move in to take over if the US pulled out and went isolationist you are fucking stupid and totally oblivious to history.

 

 

Check these things out:

 

Assyrian Empire

Babylonian Empire

Persian empire

Roman Empire

Ottoman empire

British empire

Soviet Union

WW1

WW2

the Cold War

 

....just for starters.

 

 

Every country that has the slightest capability and capacity to control as much of the world as it can tries to do just that. If you think that others won't try to take over if the US wasn't running the show you're 100% retarded and don't understand shit.

 

 

I am not a citizen of the United States of America but I sure as fuck would rather them in charge than the Russians/Slavs, Iranians/Persians, AQ/Muslims, Chinese/Han.

 

 

Shut up and stop complaining.

 

If it wasn't for the brutalisation of others in their homes it would be the brutalisation of you in your home.

 

Welcome to reality, kids.

 

If the goal is to keep others weak so that the United States can keep its position of prominence, then the US has been very successful. That is not the stated goal though.

 

This has happened in US history many times, the Philippines, Nicaragua, Cuba... etc. Creating democracy or helping those countries be better has never happened, even though it was always the stated goal. Keeping them weak though has been a strong point for the United States.

 

Obviously Iraq has far more resources than those countries though. Which may mean that keeping them weak would be unsuccessful.

[Spitfire15]

WE DA BEST.

[christo-f]

That is not the stated goal though.

 

 

 

Don't take this as rude as it sounds, but....., no shit Sherlock!

 

When has the stated reason for anything in life ever meant shit?

 

 

 

"I don't normally do this.......".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

COme on, we all know that was bullshit, let's move past the superficialities and dig deeeper. I mean shit, you're saying }OMG, the government lied!!1shiftone!!".

 

 

Well, durrr. Of course tehy did, that's what they do.

 

 

 

 

 

So, now we have accepted that they lied, let's get to the core of it and deal with what actually matters.

[christo-f]

I hate arguing about a smoke screen with people who know very well it was a smoke screen.

 

 

The trap isn't falling for a smoke screen. The trap is paying atttention to it all.

 

 

Come on on guys, ZigFag included. Move past the bait for fucks sake.

 

Stop being a fucking sucker to the people that you think you are smater than.

 

 

Seriously all the fucking idiots that argue the silly shit don't even know that they are bing told what to argue about.

 

 

You think ou are something special, above the masses that don't understand.

 

It is you that are stupider thatn the rest. You take the bait worse than anyone else

you get corralled into the aharmless agenda.

 

 

congratulaations, sheeep.

[Zig]

I'll answer it.

 

The US is not the world's police man. The US govt has no responsibility to the people of Rwanda or Africa. The US only has responsibility to US citizens and they benefit by the US being in Iraq..., well they would if it was managed a little better anyway. Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfawitz, Pearl and a number of others need to take responsibility for the way things have turned out. And a few of them have both publicly and privately. As much as I don't like his arrogance I give Wolfawitz full credit for taking his share of the blame for the way things have turned out and admitted he'd do things differently if he could.

 

They have to do a lot more then admit and take responsibility publicly, they have to be criminally prosecuted for war crimes.

 

 

However the strategic reasons for going in to the US were sound and of benefit to US citizens.

 

Absolutely false. The reasons were unsound, falsified, lies, and of no benefit to the American people whatsoever.

 

The Middle East and South Asia were producing a serious security threat to US interests. The threat to CONUS was incidental, sure 9/11 was horrible and you've had other shit like the Fort Hood shooting and threats to airlines, etc. But there is no strategic threat to the US, nothing that is going to threaten your hold on the country and the stability of your government. However, that was never the plan of al Qaeda, they wanted the Middle East/South Asia. From the Levant (maybe even Bosporus) to the Hundu-Kush/Punjab.

 

The strategic goal of AQ was to show that the US was weak, could be struck and that the govts that they support in the region (KSA, Yemen, Pakistan, Jordan, Egypt, etc) were entirely vulnerable. AQ wanted to take these countries and then roll on to the other Shiite states like Iran. Their goal was to control one of the most strategically important parts of the world under an Islamic caliphate. If that happened US interests would take a hit that it was unlikely to recover from and US citizens would suffer.

 

The justification for invading Iraq was never to secure US interests, it was directly correlated to September 11th, the War on Terror, and Saddam Hussein having WMD's. AQ was created and funded by the CIA to bankroll Osama Bin Laden. Watch BBC documentary "The Power of Nightmares". If you don't believe the CIA is capable of this, read Prouty's "The Secret Team" http://www.ratical.com/ratville/JFK/ST/

 

The biggest danger was that Iran and AQ would form an alliance of convenience and team up against the US (and later deal with each other, much like what the US did with Russia in the Second World War). the US could not let that happen and needed to destabilise the region, create a strong presence that it can keep there and contain Iran. That was the strategy and its principals are sound. It just wasn't executed well enough. They fell in to the trap of falling in love with their own assessments that supported their agenda and believed that they really would be welcomed with flower and song and within a year install a Western friendly government. This, if all went to plan, would have resulted in getting a great hold in the region with which to operate out of, giving AQ a red hot target, other than the US or weak states like KSA in the region in order to draw their attention, waste their resources and give the US a great reason to be there. All the while putting strong air, ground and intelligence assets right on the border of Iran. This would give great confidence to the Saudis, Egyptians, Jordanians and so on allowing them to crush the militant elements in their own country. A lovely little bonus of this is opening up Iraqi resources being that the sanctions would dissolve and allowing the US influence over resources that are sold to competitors like China and India.

 

Nice information, you do your job well. This probably belongs in that Geo-Strategic Imperatives thread you created.

 

This is not to discount the benefits this would bring to the Iraqi people. Saddam was a cunt and a threat to the whole region. Imagine if he was able to take Kuwait in the early 1990s and no one stopped him. He would then be looking elsewhere in order to control the Persian Gulf which puts him in control of the majority of oil in the world via control of the sea lane where it travels, that means the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. I don't think I need to explain why that would suck for everyone other than a small amount of aseholes hanging off Saddam's cock....

 

So according to you, this war benefited both the American and Iraqi people. That's incredibly interesting, being that it is estimated over 1,000,000 people have died due to this invasion. But, I guess a million deaths is worth getting rid of that tyrant Saddam Hussein. I'm sure the Iraqi's who lost their families would agree with you, or the American's who lost their children. You're absolutely right. /sarcasm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

The current life of the Iraqis is not the best. But this is one generation's worth. There is much more hope for Iraqis in this condition than there was if Saddam was allowed to do what he wanted unchecked. Ask in 10 years whether it was worth it or whether they would like to go back under the Ba'athists.

 

The current life of Iraqi's is hell on earth. I guess though, it's fine since this is only ONE GENERATIONS WORTH of pain and suffering. All of those deaths will be worth it a few more generations down the road when peace and prosperity is established under a new world order and Iraqi's just forget about the millions of people who died because of it. I'll ask them in 10 years how they feel.

 

The outcome has not gone to plan, Iran has way more leverage in the region now as a result and it has been 7 years when they thought it would be all said and done within a couple. That is something you can blame on the tacticians like Rumsfeld and his surgical strike bullshit. Blame those who put Chalabi on a fucking pedestal. But to say there was no reason to go in to Iraq and that the US citizens get nothing out of it is totally wrong.

 

So, we should probably invade Iran then right? I'm certain concocting valid reasons for this is somewhere in your job description.

 

If you want the US to go in to Rwanda, Sudan, North Korea, Burma/Myanmar, Somalia or anywhere else that doesn't satisfy your moralistic view of the way the world should be then don't complain when your taxes are 75% of your wage and 75% of able fighting citizens are conscripted and sent to all corners of the world.

 

I already get taxed to death to support these wars, and criminals.

 

If you think that the US should just pull its head in and leave the world to its own devices then don't complain when from Ireland to Japan to Australia is the Soviet Union or an Islamic caliphate run by fundamentalists. You will be charged $2000 a barrel of oil, lose Hawaii, Cuba and all the way to Mexico to either the Russians, Pan-Muslims or the Chinese. Then prepare to live your life the way some other global power decides AND DON'T FUCKING COMPLAIN ABOUT IT!

 

Seriously and this is aimed at no one in particular...., well, maybe Zig..., you guys really have to pull your heads out of your arses. If you think that no one would move in to take over if the US pulled out and went isolationist you are fucking stupid and totally oblivious to history.

 

 

Check these things out:

 

Assyrian Empire

Babylonian Empire

Persian empire

Roman Empire

Ottoman empire

British empire

Soviet Union

WW1

WW2

the Cold War

 

....just for starters.

 

Serious with this? Referring me to the history of these empire's is something I thought I should be doing for you, since you clearly don't understand how and why they fall.

 

Every country that has the slightest capability and capacity to control as much of the world as it can tries to do just that. If you think that others won't try to take over if the US wasn't running the show you're 100% retarded and don't understand shit.

 

Well, you're absolutely correct on this. Can't argue with you there.

 

I am not a citizen of the United States of America but I sure as fuck would rather them in charge than the Russians/Slavs, Iranians/Persians, AQ/Muslims, Chinese/Han.

 

Stupid logic. What makes you think our government is any different. No government is more righteous then the next, they are all run by man who is imperfect. That is why check & balances are required, and the constitution should be followed.

 

Shut up and stop complaining.

 

"SHUT UP BOYYY, DON'T YOU SPEAK OUT AGAINST US!! BE A GOOD LITTLE SLAVE NOW BOYY, AND YOU LIKE IT!!" ; that's what you sound like to me.

 

If it wasn't for the brutalisation of others in their homes it would be the brutalisation of you in your home.

 

Exactly, and that is probably what will happen eventually; the brutalisation of us in our homes because those who are leading and manipulating us into these wars and killing millions of brown people have the same thing in store for us.

 

Welcome to reality, kids.

 

yes, welcome.

 

 

zigfag, good one. i was wondering what the f stood for in your name. now i know. :lol:

[Spitfire15]

Guys the constitution needs to be followed and all other world super powers to ibid by our constitution.

 

And of course we bank rolled the Taliban (Not AQ), they were fighting the russians.

 

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Thats why we bank rolled the clans in Iraq to fight AQ for us.

[lord_casek]

zigfag, good one. i was wondering what the f stood for in your name. now i know. :lol:

 

 

I tried to argue with Christo until I found out where he works and that it's nickname is

"the shadow CIA".

 

Christo isn't someone just talking out of his ass and he admits when he doesn't know much about something. Sneaky ass Aussies. They try and win your trust with their "Foster's: Australian for beer", kiwi women, and polite nature,,,,but it's all just b/s because you know as soon as you pass out from the "Foster's: Australian for beer" they're gonna strip you down and take pictures of you fucking a kangaroo and then post them on kangafuckers.com.au or whatever the fuck site they use to make fun of us "yanks".

[Fist 666]

i'm pretty sure christo was drinking in his last few posts. quite amusing.

[lord_casek]

i'm pretty sure christo was drinking in his last few posts. quite amusing.

 

 

He's an Aussie. This is not surprising.

[Fist 666]

hell, if i were australian i'd be drinking all the time too. drink the pain away. (loljkomg)

 

but seriously. i appreciate his cold delivery of 'facts of life and war' vs 'sympathy as a privilege' rants.

[russell jones]

Don't take this as rude as it sounds, but....., no shit Sherlock!

 

When has the stated reason for anything in life ever meant shit?

 

 

 

"I don't normally do this.......".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

COme on, we all know that was bullshit, let's move past the superficialities and dig deeeper. I mean shit, you're saying }OMG, the government lied!!1shiftone!!".

 

 

Well, durrr. Of course tehy did, that's what they do.

 

 

 

 

 

So, now we have accepted that they lied, let's get to the core of it and deal with what actually matters.

 

Perhaps it is too obvious that the stated goal and intended goals were different. However, you did not address the rest of my post. What makes you think that the US will be successful in their intended goal in Iraq?

[Spitfire15]

Because we already did it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cunt sauce]

BAHAHHA

[christo-f]

Not feeling so great today.