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Where The Real Monsters Are in China....


christo-f

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I wasn't knocking Christo-f at all. I was just pointing out that I wasn't surprised that shit like this goes on in China and that it's blown up in the press.

 

Keep in mind that the press in the PRC is state run, and that there's probably some kind of carrot/stick thing going on when these stories hit the papers...in Chinese culture, when you fuck up it's not just on you but your entire family. That says a lot about how morality there has changed, and not for the better.

 

BTW, that's not a knock on China, either.

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This thread seems very black and white. With little to no discussion on the reasoning behind some of these actions. Let a lone the social, and political pressures which obviously must be implied to force such drastic measures by some very desperate people.

 

You obviously missed the second page where I discussed exactly that in considerable depth.

 

Here it is again for you.

 

 

 

 

No, I don't believe that it is the govt or the people that is the problem, it is the history of the country and the culture that is a result of that history. China has always had central authority in the shape of the emperor. When the empire spread and prospered the periphery created its own centers of power and the central power devolved. Then you get the periphery challenging the center (warlordism is another outcome), state becomes weak and vulnerable to challengers both inside and out. That is a reoccurring history for thousands of years in China.

 

But the point is that central power has always been the stable authority here. Where's in Europe for hundreds of years you had the monarchy but under the monarchy you had dukes, lords, etc. that were loyal to the king/queen but also were allowed to have their own armies/force and were responsible for their own patch. They in turn kept the King/Queen honest to a certain degree for if the center treated the periphery like shit there was always the risk that they would come together to overthrow the center. Then you had the introduction of the cabinet and parliament and evolution of government (French Revolution, etc.).

 

In European based society we have a basic culture of the periphery keeping the center honest. China has only ever had and still does have the center imposing itself on the periphery (this also happened in the local aspect as it was a completely feudal society where there really was no other law than power).

 

China has never had an overly innovative society either and this is thought to be a result of both central power and large population. In Europe where there was less authority from the center and also less population so the agricultural base had to rely on itself and also on innovation and invention to progress. Where as China could always just apply more man power to the problem by central decree the Europeans had to be innovative and come up with their own solutions. So under authoritarianism you are not encouraged to make decisions and have few choices and when your main resource is man power you are not motivated by necessity to be innovative.

 

Also throw in to this mix reoccurring poverty and massive instability when dynasties fell and warlordism emerged and you've got a lot of motivation to disregard everyone else and just look out for yourself. Instability creates insecurity, danger for you life and danger that unless you join a warlord where you have to hand over the majority of your produce they will just come and take it all, along with your wife. So the result is that you follow the most powerful, don't stick your neck out in anyway and do what you can to look after your next meal disregarding anyone else...., for thousands of years.

 

This has resulted in a culture where not only is there very little creative thought but there is very little thought for anyone else but yourself. The culture is EXTREMELY selfish without meaning to be or even realising it.

 

The best example is people cutting in line, which is more common than lining up really... There will be an obvious line up for something (buying something, gaining entry) and people will simply walk straight up the front totally oblivious that they are disregarding others. There are some that couldn't give a shit but most are simply oblivious to others.

 

This then extends all through normal behaviour here to an almost total disregard of other's suffering or even state of being and only thought processes that cover you own interests. People seriously live in a bubble that extends to 30cm from their eyeballs!!

 

As a lot of younger, modern and educated Chinese people here will say the Cultural Revolution and Great Leap Forward is also a factor in this. The Great Leap forward in the 1950s was where Chairman Mao and his Standing Committee created new methods of agriculture and created countless backyard smelters to make steel in an effort to catch up to the industrial capacity of the UK (as a result of China's isolationism and Sino-centrism they missed out on the industrial revolution and were still an agricultural society in the 1940s. The only mechanisation was a result of colonialism from the UK, US, French, Portuguese, Germans, Japan, etc.).

 

These plans were a total fucking screw up and instead of creating lots a god food and quality steel there was piles of shitty pig iron rusting by the sides of the railways because their smelting methods were useless and they hadn't organised the proper logistics to transport the product after it was manufactured. They also had a severe famine that killed around 30 million people because the farming methods were useless and no one was willing to stick their necks out to say so. Even worse, everyone was trying to suck up to Mao and the center that they bullshitted and said that they had extra when they really had fuck all. There were also environmental/natural influences on farming that were not planned for and everyone starved...., well except for Mao and the those in the Communist PArty hierarchy.

 

After this spectacular failure there were some in the party that believed that failure should be admitted and responsibility taken. This was of course a direct challenge to Mao's power and he launched the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution. This was his way of purging those that he saw as challengers by claiming that it was time for the proletarian to arise after industrialisation (read up on Marxism) and that people with Rightist/Capitalist ideas had infiltrated the PArty (those that believed Mao should be responsible for his failed policies, of course).

 

That was the Cultural Revolution which factionalised China and ended with up to 6 million people beat/tortured/starved to death. This was a time where you blamed the person next to you before they blamed you. I time of great treachery and severe paranoia. You didn't even trust your own brother. IT went on for 3 years and the effects were felt for ten altogether. The school system shut down and was then run by the army meaning that there was no teaching of proper science, culture, or anything above basic shit and MAO THOUGHT!! That means that the people who are parents now of kids around 10-20 never had a proper education, which results in all education coming from a pretty screwed up school system or even more screwed up parents.

 

But the main thing that this created was a culture where you look out for number one and don't bother yourself with other people's affairs. Don't stick your neck out and help anyone and fuck anyone else when it comes to getting what you want.

 

Then you also add the one child policy where almost every child is a single child and is wrapped in cotton wool by the parents and spoiled by the grand parents.

 

You starting to get the picture now?

 

Both the people AND the government are a result of the history here. Not the other way around.

 

The most powerful person in China is the Chairman who is also the Chairman of the military. Then there are about 15 people under him (standing committee of the Politburo) and it is this group that make all the real policies and direct the country. Uber fucking powerful.

 

Up until a few years ago, and I mean like 10 maximum, there were only about 4 people in the Standing Committee that had anything above a HIGH SCHOOL EDUCATION. They ran a whole country and commanded a nuclear capable military.

 

As I said, the Govt is a result of the culture here and the culture is a result of 4000 years of history.

 

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by yumone (View Original Post)

 

dude I was in 6 different cities in China for 2 months this year and in about 30 cabs every cabbie used the meter, I was only attempted conned once, which is less than places like england, france, or especially spain. There was far less 2 tier pricing than in other asian and eastern european countries i've been to. Where were you in China man and what were you doing? maybe if all you do is hang at tourist traps this shit happens more but i didn;t experience anything like what you're describing.

 

And props christo i've been sleeping on crossfire lately caus it got so shit good to see you're doing someting to increase the quality, keep the thread going

Yeah cab drivers here in Beijing at least will RARELY try and rip you. I've never had one that won't use the meter. Tianjin one dude tried to rip, that's it in 3 years here.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by shai hulud (View Original Post)

 

The better question to ask is "Why are people putting up with this treatment at all?" There has to be a certain amount of cooperation on both sides with situations like the black jails...if people and the state are as fed up as you say about corruption at this level then they would do something about it.

 

When organized crime or corruption ceases to have an overall benefit and just becomes a nuisance, it generally gets taken care of in short order. Strange to think it hasn't gotten to that point yet.

No, no one is really fed up with corruption. The Communist Party (meaning the state council standing party and the Politburo and above and those with connections) are actually above the law. The judiciary is not separated from the Govt like it is where we come from. That means there is NO RULE OF LAW, there is explicitly the rule of the Party. In our terms that means corruption, in there terms that is China (not trying to pass any judgement here). However it does result in severe corruption, this place makes Brazil and many African countries look like a fucking monastery!

 

So corruption is endemic from the top down. there is no understanding of nepotism here, that is normal behavior and the country runs on connections and power relationships as a way of life. IT is expected, accepted and normal for Chinese culture to work like that...., always has. So if you do a whole scale crack down on corruption the shit will roll up hill and you never know who s going to get found out. So most of the time either crack downs are political purges of factional competitors or it is when some dumbfuck isn't careful enough with his shit and the center needs to be seen doing something about it.

 

However, this place is modernising, slowly and these things are changing for the better. But, that will be a generational change that won't have any chance of approaching what we see as expected behaviour from our leaders until long after we are dead. But, as I say, China is DEFINITELY improving. More and more people are being taken out of poverty as a result of government policy and there are more and more PArty members who along with feathering their own nest are also doing good things for the country. It is improving, just really fucking slowly.

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by yumone (View Original Post)

 

things work a little bit differently in a collectivist society I think it takes a hell of a lot more to spark a real social and political upheaval than it does in the west

YEs and no, there are mass incidences with people taking attacking the authority on a weekly basis and the govt doesn't hide that fact, they actually faithfully report on it. I will start posting that stuff too when it occurs. However, as per any government the Chinese have created a very strong system where lateral/horizontal social connections are very tightly controlled by the center. Think F41uN g0N6, religion, law societies that aren't under the Party, non-party unions, etc. They get SMASHED real fucking quick. So you have mass corruption which means mass dissatisfaction among a lot of fairly uneducated people that don't give a shit about anything than themselves. that creates violent reaction but very little concern from the rest of society because people here don't have much regard for their fellow man.

 

It is a myth that this is a collectivist society. That was only true from 1949 to the late 1950s. Apart from that it has always been every man for himslef here. They like to say collectivist and they like to act all patriotic and nationalistic but the reality is VERY different. Hence all the articles I'm posting of how badly and how often people fuck each other over here.

 

Of course I'm only posting the most extreme examples as you can't post articles of "man cuts in line". Old lady falls over, crowd stands and watches without helping. Beggars get 90% of their handouts from expats, not fellow country man. No one EVER gives way to other people in traffic, in fact they will go out of their way to cut in front when it's easier for them to just go behind were there is a massive fucking gap....., etc. etc.

 

Everyday life here is seated in selfish behaviour, I'm just showing the extreme examples that would raise a national outcry/response where we come from but barely a news article here (shit, just today 12 people were killed by their own family member. Same thing has happened once a week for the last few months. 90% of Chinese people I talk to wouldn't have a clue and really don't give a fuck because it wasn't them).

 

That's not to say that the Chinese are bad people. There is no malicious motivation behind their behaviour, it's just a result of an "every man for himself" and "no need to think for yourself" culture over 4000 years. Put them in our history and they would be the same as us. Put us in their history and we would be the same as them.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by shai hulud (View Original Post)

 

I don't know about that. It would seem that corruption for the sake of personal gain would be dealt with swiftly and harshly, as opposed to the everyday small-scale corruption that simply lessens the logjam of bureaucracy.

 

Then again, I've never been to China...my friends that have been there say that it's sort of amazing that there's any sort of law and order at all.

Everything here is for personal gain. There almost is no law at all, it's all power relationships.

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communist state without christian background.

Similar troubles have been seen in several ex soviet states [/color]as well, and most of us being products of christian societies I wouldn't be surprized at all if these matters seem much, much worse in our eyes.

 

Two super interesting points made here.

 

Really interesting, really appreciate the contribution.

 

Must spread props before...., etc.

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Holidays are over, back to the grind.

 

Think I've made my point about the crazy stuff that goes down in China, the regularity of it and what I see as a lack of social and "humane conscience".

 

But I regularly come across so much crazy whacked out shit that may be worth sharing for laughs and so on that I'll continue to post that stuff here for y'all to check out.

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China hospital wrongly declares man dead: report

 

 

 

AFP/File – A hospital in southwest China prematurely sent a man injured in a motorcycle crash to the mortuary, prompting …

38 mins ago

BEIJING (AFP) – A hospital in southwest China prematurely sent a man injured in a motorcycle crash to the mortuary, prompting outrage from his family, who found him alive in a coffin, state media reported.

Zhang Houming, 46, was found breathing and with a faint heart beat in his "iced" coffin at a mortuary in the city of Neijiang in Sichuan province on Friday last week, the Global Times reported.

His shocked family called doctors and summoned an ambulance but Zhang died an hour later at the hospital, it said.

The family is seeking 1.5 million yuan (220,000 dollars) in compensation for the botched diagnosis, the report said.

Zhang had been pronounced dead at the scene of the accident by medical personnel sent by Neijiang's Chinese Medical Hospital who recorded that the patient's "heartbeat and breathing had stopped", the paper said.

Zhang was sent straight to the mortuary, it added.

"It's very likely that Zhang's heart was in shock during the doctor's check, but his heartbeat revived... during the transportation," the paper quoted a Neijiang city official as saying

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Parents charged with killing mentally ill son

 

 

A radio station chief and his wife from Yunnan Province killed their 25-year-old son because a secret they had kept hidden was about to be revealed, it was reported Sunday.

 

Early on the morning of January 5, Zhang Xiaoyu and his wife Wen Xiuping turned on a gas container in Zhang Li's room when their son was asleep and locked all the windows and doors.

 

Zhang Li was woken by the pungent smell and tried to escape. He managed to call the police but his parents then beat him repeatedly on the head. The parents had been detained on a charge of murder, the Yunnan-based Life News reported yesterday.

 

The couple's friends expressed shock at the news as Zhang, founder and chief of the Lincang People's Broadcasting Station, was said to be "always kind to everyone around and never gets angry with anyone while Wen is a typical devoted wife and loving mother," according to the news report.

 

The secret that the parents had been keeping to themselves for more than 10 years was that their son suffered from intermittent mental illness. Zhang Li had to take pills every day but this failed to control his condition.

 

"At first, our son only liked to talk nonsense. Then he began to curse people frequently," the newspaper quoted his father as saying.

 

At the cremation of their son, Zhang cried out: "You have once threatened to kill people. We would rather kill you first before you kill others."

 

Zhang was also concerned the secret he and his wife had endeavored to keep would be revealed when the son married his girlfriend, who had not been aware of the disease.

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Fund chief's US$9m gift to Yale prompts torrent of net abuse

Will Clem in Shanghai

Jan 11, 2010

 

 

A Chinese entrepreneur who made a record donation of almost US$9 million to Yale University has caused a stir among mainland internet users after he attributed his success to postgraduate studies at the Ivy League school.

Zhang Lei, the founder and managing partner of Beijing-based Hillhouse Capital Management, last week gave the auspicious figure of US$8,888,888, the largest amount the university's management school has ever received from a "young" alumnus.

 

Zhang, who graduated from the school with a master's degree in business administration and a master's in international relations in 2002, said he decided to make the donation because Yale's educational system had "changed his life".

But this comment - and his decision to give money to a foreign university - appears to have ruffled feathers back home, prompting a flurry of angry posts on the internet.

By yesterday evening more than 1,500 anonymous messages had been posted on huanqiu.com, which first broke the story on the mainland, and the vast majority were aggressively worded and even abusive.

"This bird-student will have a horrible death!" wrote one, using a slang term for students who study overseas. Others called Zhang a dog, a traitor or suggested he must have mental problems.

Many expressed disgust that Zhang - who studied at Renmin University in Beijing before going overseas - did not appear to value his school and undergraduate education. "You spent more than 10 years studying in Chinese universities; if it weren't for the Chinese higher educational system, you wouldn't be anything at all," wrote one poster.

Others appeared to consider the prospect of Chinese money going overseas as some sort of personal affront. "You made this money in China after you graduated, so any donations should go back to China," wrote one.

Though the online comments are only a straw poll of the most opinionated readers, the strength of the reaction was unmistakable.

Even so, a minority did speak out in support of Zhang's decision. "Well donated! If you donated that money [in China], then more than half would fall into the wallets of corrupt officials," wrote one.

Others also commented that it was a sorry indictment of the mainland educational system when a celebrated "prize student" like Zhang - who ranked first out of 100,000 students in his provincial university entrance exam - thought only his time at Yale had contributed to his success in life.

Zhang set up his company - which is named after Hillhouse Avenue, the main street running through the Yale management school's campus - in 2005 using an endowment from the management school.

He began managing a fund of US$30 million, but that pot has since swollen to US$2.5 billion.

Zhang is also a member of the Yale management school's board of advisers and its board of China advisers.

In a statement posted on its website, Yale said the donation would be used primarily to help build a new campus for the management school but "a portion of the gift" would also be set aside for scholarships and "a variety of China-related activities".

Speaking at an event in Beijing last Monday, the president of Yale, Richard Levin, said the donation was a "truly extraordinary gift" that reflected Zhang's "deep commitment to Yale".

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Fund chief's US$9m gift to Yale prompts torrent of net abuse

Will Clem in Shanghai

Jan 11, 2010

 

 

A Chinese entrepreneur who made a record donation of almost US$9 million to Yale University has caused a stir among mainland internet users after he attributed his success to postgraduate studies at the Ivy League school.

Zhang Lei, the founder and managing partner of Beijing-based Hillhouse Capital Management, last week gave the auspicious figure of US$8,888,888, the largest amount the university's management school has ever received from a "young" alumnus.

 

Zhang, who graduated from the school with a master's degree in business administration and a master's in international relations in 2002, said he decided to make the donation because Yale's educational system had "changed his life".

But this comment - and his decision to give money to a foreign university - appears to have ruffled feathers back home, prompting a flurry of angry posts on the internet.

By yesterday evening more than 1,500 anonymous messages had been posted on huanqiu.com, which first broke the story on the mainland, and the vast majority were aggressively worded and even abusive.

"This bird-student will have a horrible death!" wrote one, using a slang term for students who study overseas. Others called Zhang a dog, a traitor or suggested he must have mental problems.

Many expressed disgust that Zhang - who studied at Renmin University in Beijing before going overseas - did not appear to value his school and undergraduate education. "You spent more than 10 years studying in Chinese universities; if it weren't for the Chinese higher educational system, you wouldn't be anything at all," wrote one poster.

Others appeared to consider the prospect of Chinese money going overseas as some sort of personal affront. "You made this money in China after you graduated, so any donations should go back to China," wrote one.

Though the online comments are only a straw poll of the most opinionated readers, the strength of the reaction was unmistakable.

Even so, a minority did speak out in support of Zhang's decision. "Well donated! If you donated that money [in China], then more than half would fall into the wallets of corrupt officials," wrote one.

Others also commented that it was a sorry indictment of the mainland educational system when a celebrated "prize student" like Zhang - who ranked first out of 100,000 students in his provincial university entrance exam - thought only his time at Yale had contributed to his success in life.

Zhang set up his company - which is named after Hillhouse Avenue, the main street running through the Yale management school's campus - in 2005 using an endowment from the management school.

He began managing a fund of US$30 million, but that pot has since swollen to US$2.5 billion.

Zhang is also a member of the Yale management school's board of advisers and its board of China advisers.

In a statement posted on its website, Yale said the donation would be used primarily to help build a new campus for the management school but "a portion of the gift" would also be set aside for scholarships and "a variety of China-related activities".

Speaking at an event in Beijing last Monday, the president of Yale, Richard Levin, said the donation was a "truly extraordinary gift" that reflected Zhang's "deep commitment to Yale".

 

This is great. The trade deficit has gotten to the point where Chinese nationals can't even give money to their alma mater...after all, Yale obviously needs the money since its endowment is getting a little too close to third-world GDP numbers .

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Some doozies today...

 

 

Mom's suicidal leap shocks Net-addict son

 

 

 

 

A MOTHER was severely injured after jumping off from her fourth-floor home in north China's Tianjin Municipality in a bid to prevent her son's addiction to the Internet.

 

Tong Shunying, 33, may be paralyzed and is being treated in hospital after jumping on New Year's Day to prevent her son going to a Net café, doctors told the news Website Enorth.com.cn.

 

Her 13-year-old son was shocked by his mother's action and felt deep regret, the Website said. Her husband now plans to sell their home to finance the medical costs.

 

 

 

Read more: http://www.shanghaidaily.com/article/?id=425520&type=National#ixzz0cOapDKJ4

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Mass lock-up leads to police inquiry

 

 

 

 

A POLICE captain is under investigation for allegedly abusing power after locking up 12 phone card sellers for up to 34 days when one refused to give a refund to his mother.

 

The vendors have now lodged a complaint to the police authority in northeast China's Jixi County in Heilongjiang Province, their agent Ren Honghua told today's Beijing Times newspaper.

 

County prosecutors rejected the police application to arrest the vendors, ruling them not guilty, Ren said.

 

It all began when police captain Wang Congling's mother bought a 300-yuan (US$44) phone card in March last year, enabling her to make cheap long-distance calls, the report said.

 

But she discovered that card seller Yang Shuguang had bought the card for 150 yuan and asked for a refund. When Yang refused, she complained to police, who then rounded up all her colleagues and detained them, Ren said.

 

Dongning police denied the accusation of power abuse, praising Wang as an excellent police officer "who did anything for the public interest."

 

 

 

Read more: http://www.shanghaidaily.com/article/?id=425511&type=National#ixzz0cOb7PQIT

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Catch the logic on this one...

 

 

 

 

Fraudulent 'boy' friend is arrested

 

 

 

 

 

THE Judiciary Police of Macau Special Administrative Region have arrested a woman claiming to be a man for allegedly cheating one of her Internet friends, the Macau Post Daily reported yesterday.

 

The newspaper quoted a police spokesman as saying that the suspect was apprehended on Friday after a 24-year-old female clerk had reported to police last September that she was cheated out of 180,000 patacas (US$22,780) in an Internet-based fraud.

 

The victim told police that she had fallen in love with a man surnamed "Chan" on the Internet, and that the online friendship went on for about six months.

 

During that period, she stole money from her family to buy presents for "Chan."

 

The victim later suspected that she had been cheated and reported her suspicions to police.

 

The suspect faces possible fraud charges.

 

 

 

Read more: http://www.shanghaidaily.com/article/?id=425476&type=National#ixzz0cObeMYKC

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Land dispute in eastern China turns deadly: reports+

Jan 12 06:16 AM US/Eastern

 

HONG KONG, Jan. 12 (AP) - (Kyodo)—A land dispute in eastern China's Jiangsu Province turned deadly last week when armed thugs clashed with villagers, killing one and injuring some 50 others, Chinese websites and a human rights watchdog said Tuesday.

About 100 attackers, wielding machetes and sticks, beat up villagers who complained about land grabs in Yuanhe of Pizhou City last Thursday, the reports said.

 

Li Dongdong, 22, reportedly died from multiple stab wounds in his chest while another villager was badly injured with stab wounds to his stomach.

 

Photographs posted in the reports show hundreds of people protesting with banners on the streets of Pizhou against land grabs and killing by gangsters.

 

The Information Center for Human Rights and Democracy said some 50 other villagers were injured when 200 police officers clashed with hundreds of people who were carrying Li's body to protest at the municipal Communist Party office the next day.

 

The Hong Kong-based watchdog said police confiscated Li's body and dispersed the crowd. Police were patrolling major traffic routes and blocking news of the clash from being reported.

 

The reports said Yuanhe township officials sold 300 acres of farm land that belong to the people to Xuzhou Haitian Petrochemical Co. for 20 million yuan ($2.9 million) to build new plants.

 

Reports of sometimes fatal disputes over land sales between villagers and thugs allegedly hired by either land developers or government officials are commonplace amid the breakneck economic development in China in recent years.

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16 in hospital after attack on police in S. China

 

0 CommentsPrint E-mail Shanghai Daily, January 14, 2010

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Eleven officers and five villagers are in hospital following an attack on police on Tuesday in Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region, the local government said yesterday.

 

The five villagers of Maling Town in Guangxi's Lipu County were shot by officers as they and dozens of others launched an attack, throwing stones, pickaxes, knives, bars and Molotov cocktail at the police, the China News Service reported.

 

One officer suffered burns in the conflict triggered by the detention of 12 villagers suspected of assaulting court bailiffs over a land dispute.

 

Officers of Lipu public security bureau arrived at Longya Village early on Tuesday to detain suspects over the December 15 incident. They were besieged as they tried to leave with the suspects.

 

Officers first fired warning shots but couldn't stop the attack, the Lipu government said.

 

Also on Tuesday, two villagers were shot dead in a struggle with a police officer in Guizhou Province, adjacent to Guangxi, Xinhua news agency reported yesterday.

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Developments like this almost always have a local official either directly involved or on the payroll of the developer.

 

 

 

Farmers block highway to protest against property developers

 

0 CommentsPrint E-mailXinhua, January 15, 2010

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Farmers of central China's Henan province blocked a highway to protest against a real estate development company who damaged farmland and injured five farmers in a conflict on Thursday.

 

The property development company named "Changcheng" or "Great Wall" used seven tractor shovels and three trucks to pull down trees and destroy farmland of Yangzhuang village, Changyuan county at midnight Thursday and beat up farmers who tried to stop them, according to the villagers.

 

The injured farmers, including two seriously hurt, have been hospitalized.

 

The farmers blocked the provincial highway 308 at around 6 a.m. and demanded that the people responsible be punished.

 

"We found the developers wanted to seize our land by damaging our crops at midnight and we tried to stop them. Then they ordered their hired thugs to beat us up," said a farmer in anonymity.

 

The same company destroyed 100 mu (66,667 square meters) of arable land in Luozhentun village and 30 mu (20,000 square meters) in Kongchang village by force one month ago, said the farmer.

 

Villagers used three trees cut down by developers to block the highway and held a banner reading "Protect our farmland, protect farmers, and punish the perpetrators behind the scene."

 

The provincial highway remained blocked as of 5 p.m.

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Ha, you KNOW that most of that money won't make it to the poor people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Workers complain of forced charity donations

 

 

TEACHERS and government workers in an east China district said they are forced to "donate" up to a quarter of their monthly income to a local charity fund.

 

Teachers in Huaiyin District of Huai'an City, Jiangsu Province, are asked to give 500 yuan (US$73.25) to the fund launched by the local government to improve the lives of poor families, today's Xiaoxiang Morning Post reported.

 

"Five-hundred yuan means a quarter of my monthly salary," complained an unnamed teacher with Huaizhou Middle School. Senior teachers are required to donate 800 yuan, she added.

 

But a government spokeswoman denied the government had ever decreed how much workers should donate, saying they should be voluntary. "I myself donated 800 yuan," she added.

 

Workers at the district's Party committee donated 23,300 yuan, according to the committee's Website.

 

Read more: http://www.shanghaidaily.com/article/?id=425744&type=National#ixzz0cfiRcNad

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Developments like this almost always have a local official either directly involved or on the payroll of the developer.

 

 

 

Farmers block highway to protest against property developers

It's fucking sad how often cops and construction workers get caught on camera illegally evicting houses and moving furniture out of them.

 

 

Christo-F. Since I'm an american with $500 billion in debt to China, and an architect who's watched many a video showing the many efforts china has made to green their economy, i gotta know: Is there too much shit going on right now to even notice or care about china's Green movement, or is there a silver lining to all these corporate lynchings and riots?

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That's a pretty hard question about the Chinese green movement. I believe that there is a strong concern in China about their immediate environment, for if nothing else if their arable land (14%) continues to shrink and their waterways too polluted to support life, industry and agriculture they will be both more reliant on imports and there will be a greater risk of social instability due to unemployment and dissatisfaction. So the motivation is there.

 

However China is a country that is trapped in to short term gain/long term risk/loss. Their country is only really just coming together after the tragedy of Mao (Great Leap/Cultural Rev.) and the millennia of introverted feudal rule that ended them in missing out on the industrial revolution. Beijing is shit scared that growth will slow down, unemployment increase and social instability will turn to regime instability. Their golden figure is 8% growth Per annum, they figure that anything below that will increase risk of instability.

 

So until they can increase the size of the urban middle class (right now at about 300m) and transform the economically rural class (about 700m) and decrease the migrant worker population (about 300m) they are going to stick with this break neck growth at all costs. That means sticking with cheap and readily available coal (they have a lot of their own coal deposits, they use a lot of Mongolian coal from just over the border and from Australia which is not so far away), which of course has a massive impact on the environment in the way of emissions and disturbing the earth, transport links, man power, etc.

 

IF I remember correctly coal makes up for about 80% of their energy usage. so a serious move towards a green energy platform is going to take a fucking MASSIVE effort and a huge amount of money that I just cannot see them spending right now.

 

The whole copenhagen thing was a competition between the US and China for technology. The US wanted an agreement for domestic political reasons and genuine environmental reasons (I'd say the extra burden on the Chinese manufacturing and steel sector would have been a nice bonus too) and the Chinese were using their agreement as leverage to force the US into green tech transfer. The US doesn't want to give it over because the Chinese will steal it and and work to become leaders in green tech manufacture and innovation. The US obviously cannot have that and the talks were basically fucked.

 

 

So that gives you a basic view of where China is now.

 

They want to reduce the energy usage in China because that creates a dependency and dependence is a form of vulnerability. They subsidise gasoline and keep electricity and other energy cheap, but that breeds wastage and they are slowly allowing market forces to dictate price but that will take ages before the market transition is complete and rational practices of energy usage are the standard.

 

Also, the law, as mentioned above, is a bit of an after-thought in China. So you end up with a massive amount of environmental protection laws being ignored and local officials driving nice new Audis and wearing expensive watches as they visit Hawaii.

 

 

 

Safe to say that there are a few hurdles before China's green economy is taken seriously.

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I see a government executing unethical businessmen and the riots as signs of a country trying desperately to enforce moral and ethical business practices. "Green" to me just means "economic and environmental sustainability"-- basically it's the most ethical business practice there currently is. Most media about China (that i've seen) basically states that unless the entire country gets behind the "green" movement soon, China is likely going to ruin the rest of the world--environmentally and economically--as well by 2050. (

)

 

So my question to you was: With all these other stupid problems like murdering their daughters, illegal evictions, government officials stealing money out of worker's paychecks, it's likely nobody's even really thinking about sustainability and green design, or are they?

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Right, I get you.

 

I would answer that for now and the foreseeable future there is nowhere near enough interest, commitment, rule of law or even education to make China's green/sustainable economy/movement even semi-credible.

 

There is a lot of talk about it and legislation being enacted but even that is a drop in the ocean compared to the scale of industry/society and it basically is hardly enforced due to corruption, lack of education and uneven enforcement of regulation.

 

I can't talk for any other country and I know little about environmental sciences but I can say that the visible damage alone being done to the environment in China is quite extreme.

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Well I can't speak for all of CHina as I've only lived in Beijing (got back here two days ago) and traveled to Tianjin, Wuhan, Hong Kong and Qingdao.

 

I don't like living in Beijing but I love my job and that keeps me here. I also just got engaged to my girl over Xmas and she needs to further her career a bit before she can get a good position in a Western country. So I'm here for a few more years. I also have to get this language squared away yet.

 

Beijing is interesting and exciting but it's also quite ugly, dirty and difficult. I'd be a lot happier living in Qingdao. Beijing is also not so cheap, really.

 

So it's good and bad, I just complain too much, I guess.

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  • 2 months later...

Every now and then, China still shocks me.....

 

 

 

 

Bodies of 21 infants, foetuses dumped in Shandong river

Agence France-Presse in Beijing

5:57pm, Mar 30, 2010

 

 

http://www.scmp.com/portal/site/SCMP/menuitem.2af62ecb329d3d7733492d9253a0a0a0/?vgnextoid=06b1871a54ea7210VgnVCM100000360a0a0aRCRD&ss=China&s=News

 

 

 

A hospital in Shandong suspended staff after the bodies of at least 21 infants and foetuses were found discarded in a river, state media reported on Tuesday.

At least eight bodies had tags indicating they were from the hospital at Jining Medical University in Shandong province, Xinhua news agency reported.

 

 

Authorities were quoted by the Beijing Newssaying the corpses could have been those of aborted foetuses or babies who had died of illness. They were found on the outskirts of the city of Jining.

Abortion is common on the mainland, where at least 13 million births are terminated every year, due in part to the nation’s so-called “one-child policy”, which limits most urban couples to just one offspring.

The family-planning rules are widely blamed for fuelling abortions of female foetuses, whereas boys are traditionally favoured.

A local health official said an investigation had been launched.

“The hospital medical staff involved have been suspended from their work during the investigation,” Zhong Haitao, a spokesman at the Jining Health Bureau, was quoted as saying by Xinhua.

The report did not specify how many staff members had been suspended.

One of the bodies had been bundled into a plastic bag marked “hospital waste”, the Beijing News said.

Zhong declined to comment when contacted by reporters.

Reports of poor treatment of patients – both living and dead – in China’s under-funded hospitals are common.

Last June, a hospital in Hubei province was found to have dumped the bodies of two adults and six aborted foetuses at a construction site after failing to locate relatives of the dead, state media reported.

A bag containing severed human limbs was also discovered in the case, in the city of Xiangfan.

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CHINA is a extremely disgusting country. I feel sorry for the people who live in this country. I don't know why anyone would want to do business in this country. The USA should serioulsy stop all forms of business dealings in this country until this horror stops.

 

THANKS FOR SHARING THESE STORIES AND LETTING THE TRUTH BE TOLD!

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