christo-f Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Did you fail to realise that the Bulava missile system uses solid propellant in all three stages? A solid system, will not, and can not disperse in a completely perfect spiral form as - whatever this is did. You're assuming that the only explanation for a vapor trail is fuel from the rocket. Whilst what you are posting is interesting it is only one variable and that cannot immediately rule out that it was the rocket test. Was it an exhaust trail, was it disturbance of ice and vapour in the atmosphere created by the rocket, etc.? Not trying to argue, just discussing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tavaruawon Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 The disturbance of ice and vapor was hypothisized and debunked in this volley - Typical height of ICBM's at appogee: 1120 km Estimated size of the entire "event": 5 degrees of the horizon. Tan (5) = .08748 * 1120km = 97km wide Time for "Spiral" to go from "Center" to Outside edge: 3 seconds. Estimated speed of "Spiral Vapor Trail" (97/2/3) = 16 k/sec 16km / sec = 57,000 kph Typical rocket exhaust speed = 12,874 kph But then again that science only deals with KNOWN missile systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo-f Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Yeah fuck, my head is spinning from way too much coffee right now and needs to chill!! Will send through what my friends have when they have something. Also have to factor in that this was a malfunction, not sure if that means that typical equations apply. They might, I don't know enough to say yay or nay. Going for rum to counter the coffee.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tavaruawon Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Bring me some. But in factoring in a malfunction - you'd have to realise that Russia has a very long history of outright denying failed tests, experiments and weapons malfunctions. A track record we might as well begin at Chernobyl in '86. So now in light of all of the 'goings on' in Norway this month we get a fully honest response? Just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tavaruawon Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watson Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 ITS AN INSIDE JORB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tavaruawon Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spitfire15 Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 Re: Fuckin' radical. I dont know how a missile makes a swirling ring of light in the sky, staying in one spot, then just dissipating suddenly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUSK Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Re: Fuckin' radical. the 2012 myth is a cheesburger, oh you didn't know! ya better ax somebody~! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo-f Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Re: Fuckin' radical. I dont know how a missile makes a swirling ring of light in the sky, staying in one spot, then just dissipating suddenly. Third stage high altitude malfunction. Missile goes out of control, spins around in the sky and burns out. Buns out fast because it's the third stage of the ICBM and disappears quick because the exhaust is being pushed out at great pressure. High altitude catches the light coming past the horizon. I can't link you because I can't get youtube but I'd say you can go on there and look for rocket/missile malfunction and see footage of rockets spinning out of control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
injury Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Definitely has nothing to do with lasers of any unclassified kind. If I were to go anywhere near that route I would mention rail guns. We're talking quake 2 type shit. It is in rudimentary development and the technology has been tested by the US Navy like in transformers 2? they're preparing for when the autobots come to earth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troofandroomaz Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Tavaruawon= ME= i seriously believe that this had nothing to do with Russia at all. I posted about this in the space tickets thread yesterday morning, and the link I posted had a video that included many different accounts from different angles, and all lasted for well longer than what is still out there to be seen (which is a 10 or 11 sec bullshit video of the VERY END of the phenomenon). It lasted long enough for 5 million people to witness it. Now this link no longer contains the video, and many articles I have seen have been filtered and augmented in the last 24 hours. Anyone remember when all those fucking lights that were dancing over Arizona, Nevada, and Mexico in 1997? That lasted for well over an hour and was witnessed by countless numbers of people, yet our government diffused that bullshit however they needed to. Check the wiki on it peoples. I'm not counting out anything extra-terrestrial in this case. I smell loads of gov't bullshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Mamerro Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsmbfan Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 ^^ penicillin should clear that right up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo-f Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Bring me some. But in factoring in a malfunction - you'd have to realise that Russia has a very long history of outright denying failed tests, experiments and weapons malfunctions. A track record we might as well begin at Chernobyl in '86. So now in light of all of the 'goings on' in Norway this month we get a fully honest response? Just saying. Sorry, that's not correct. Russia has been very public about it's missile program for years. IT can afford to be being that it already has a fully capable nuclear deterrent and survivability. Here are some examples, and remember news agencies are not going to make up ministerial announcements that are fake otherwise they will lose all credibility as a news source. We're not talking about the national enquirer here. Test of Russian Ballistic Missile Fails Test of advanced Russian ballistic missile fails _ latest setback for arsenal upgrade efforts By MIKE ECKEL Associated Press Writer MOSCOW July 16, 2009 (AP) The Associated Press http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=8100654 Russia's latest test of its advanced submarine-launched ballistic missile Bulava has failed, with the missile self-destructing, the Defense Ministry said Thursday — another setback for the nation's efforts to upgrade its aging arsenal. The failure was the seventh in 11 test launches for the Bulava, and could have consequences for Russia's top missile designers and missile force commanders. The Defense Ministry said in a statement that the missile was fired Wednesday from the submarine Dmitry Donskoi, but its first-stage malfunctioned and the weapon self-destructed. No other information was released. Russian forces earlier this week conducted two successful tests of another less-advanced missile, the Sineva. Military analysts, however, had been closely watching for the latest, long-promised test of the Bulava. Defense Ministry officials had suggested a test was likely on Wednesday. However, there was no announcement of any sort that day, stoking speculation that the missile had again failed. "Another failure would certainly provoke a serious soul searching in Russia," Pavel Podvig, a well-known analyst of Russia's missile forces, wrote in his blog on Wednesday. "It is probably too late to shut the program down, but the fact that the industry is not able to get the missile to fly ... is quite worrying." Despite the failures, Russian leaders have boasted about the Bulava's capability to penetrate missile defenses and described it as a key part of the military's future nuclear arsenal. Military commentator Alexander Golts said the failure was due to the fact that top government and military leaders were rushing to upgrade the aging-Soviet arsenal to keep up with the U.S.' technological advances. He said missile designers skipped crucial steps in the testing process, such as running tests on land, instead of going straight to maritime conditions. He also noted that the Bulava is the first missile to be designed and manufactured in post-Soviet Russia. That means that many of the research institutes and scientists who worked closely under the Soviet military industrial complex have withered away, for lack of government funding. Russian Bulava missile test fails again http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/5846504/Russian-Bulava-missile-test-fails-again.html Another test of Russia's intercontinental Bulava missile has failed, the defence ministry said on Thursday, with the missile blowing up in mid-flight, following a similar failed test in December. Published: 11:02PM BST 16 Jul 2009 The missile, which can carry nuclear warheads, veered off course after the first stage of the rocket malfunctioned, said the ministry, quoted by the Ria Novosti agency. It was launched by Russia's Dmitri Donskoi submarine in the White Sea on Wednesday. "A committee of inquiry has been set up to determine the causes" of the incident, the defence ministry's press service added. Several such tests have already ended in failure, including one in December 2008 launched by the same submarine in the White Sea, off the northwest coast of Russia. On that occasion the missile also exploded in mid-air. A defence ministry source said the problem was in the device designed to separate the different stages of the missile and said tests would continue this summer. The Bulava missile normally has a range of 8,000 kilometres (5,000 miles) and can carry up to 10 nuclear warheads. It is intended to equip the Russian navy's fourth-generation missile-launching nuclear submarines, which are being built at the Sevmash shipyard at Severodvinsk, on Russia's Arctic coast. Russia To Test-Launch At Least 5 Bulava ICBMs In 2009 MISSILES & BOMBS NEWS — BY EDITOR ON DECEMBER 30, 2008 AT 8:32 AM (No Ratings Yet) http://www.defencetalk.com/russia-to-test-launch-at-least-5-bulava-icbms-in-2009-16085/ RIA Novosti, Moscow: The number of test launches for Russia's Bulava ICBM will be increased from three or four to at least five next year, a senior Navy official said on Tuesday. The intercontinental ballistic missile, capable of breaching anti-missile defense systems, failed a test launch from a submarine earlier on Tuesday. "In connection with today's less than successful test launch, the overall number of Bulava test-launches in 2009 will be increased from three to four to a minimum of five," the official said adding that telemetry and trajectory measurements of the latest launch would be analyzed before the end of this year. A source at the Belomorsk naval base said earlier in the day that the submerged launch from the Dmitry Donskoi strategic nuclear-powered submarine in the White Sea, off Russia's northwest coast, had been unsuccessful. The missile had been targeting the Kura firing range in Russia's Far Eastern Kamchatka region. "The launch was a failure," the official said. "The crew performed well. The missile left the tube, but went off course due to a malfunction after the first stage separation." A naval commission will investigate the cause of the failure, Navy spokesman Capt. 1st Rank Igor Dygalo said. The latest test launch was Bulava's 10th, five of which have ended in failure. The previous test of the Bulava missile took place on November 28. It was launched from the Dmitry Donskoi submarine in the White Sea, effectively engaging its designated target on the Kamchatka Peninsula about 6,700 kilometers (4,200 miles) east of Moscow. Russia earlier planned to adopt the new Bulava for service with the Navy in 2009. But a senior Navy official said earlier this month that several more test launches would be conducted next year before there was a final decision on the missile entering service. The Bulava (SS-NX-30), carrying up to 10 nuclear warheads and having a range of 8,000 kilometers (5,000 miles), is designed for deployment on Borey-class Project 955 nuclear-powered submarines. Russia to Start Producing New Bulava Ballistic Missiles in 2009 http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601095&sid=aiO19AXblGL8 Share Business ExchangeTwitterFacebook| Email | Print | A A A By Sebastian Alison Dec. 1 (Bloomberg) -- Russia will start full-scale production of its new Bulava intercontinental ballistic missile next year after a successful test launch on Nov. 28, Deputy Prime Minister Sergei Ivanov said. The military will conduct one more Bulava test launch by the end of the year, Ivanov told a government meeting in Moscow today, in comments posted on the Web site of state broadcaster Vesti-24. The latest launch “went successfully, all the parameters of the launch went according to plan,” Ivanov said. Prime Minister Vladimir Putin has said Russia can produce missiles capable of piercing any defenses. This year’s multiple tests of the Bulava, with an estimated maximum range of 8,000 kilometers, have come as the country upgrades its rocket forces to counter a planned U.S. anti-missile shield in eastern Europe. Russia rejects assertions by the U.S. that its planned anti-missile system is aimed at defending Europe from a nuclear- armed Iran, and sees it as part of a plan to isolate the country that began with NATO’s expansion. The most recent Bulava was launched from the submarine Dmitry Donskoi off northern Russia and landed on the Kamchatka peninsula in Russia’s Far East, Ivanov said. From next year, one-off production of test missiles will be replaced by “serial production,” he added. The Russian military was “pleased” by the success of the launch, General Nikolai Makarov, chief of the General Staff, told Putin at the meeting. The Bulava is Russia’s newest ballistic missile, a rocket with three stages powered by solid fuel and deployed exclusively on submarines, Vesti-24 said. It can carry six to 10 supersonic nuclear warheads, capable of changing speed and course during flight. Past tests of the Bulava, designed for a new generation of nuclear submarines, have had mixed success, with three failing in 2006 and one in 2005. Russia successfully fired one from a submarine in the White Sea to a target on the Pacific coast on Sept. 18, the military said. To contact the reporter on this story: Sebastian Alison in Moscow at Salison1@bloomberg.net Last Updated: December 1, 2008 09:21 EST Urgent: Russian ballistic missile falls into sea in test launch http://www.chinaview.cn 2006-10-25 23:55:23 MOSCOW, Oct. 25 (Xinhua) -- A sea-launched Bulava ballistic missile was self-destroyed several minutes after the test-launch due to a deviation from the preset trajectory, Russian Navy press service said on Wednesday. "The missile deviated from its trajectory several minutes after the launch. The system of self-destruction may have been triggered, and the missile fell into sea," the Navy said. Enditem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo-f Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Now they are all foreign news services of fairly reputable standing. This is from RIA Novosti, which is the Russian State owned press. Russia's latest Bulava missile test unsuccessful © RIA Novosti http://en.rian.ru/russia/20091210/157186305.html Bulava missile: test-launch history The latest test launch of an intercontinental ballistic missile in the White Sea in northern Russia ended in failure, the Defense Ministry said on Thursday. Wednesday's test was Bulava's seventh failure, according to official reports. Russia hopes the submarine-launched missile will be a key element of its nuclear forces. "The first two stages functioned smoothly, but the flight faltered at the third stage. There was a technical failure in the third stage engines rendering them unstable," the ministry said in a statement. The statement came after media reports on a mysterious light in the form of a spiral over Norway's northern areas several hundred kilometers from the launch site on Wednesday. Norwegian media suggested it could be a Russian missile spinning after a faulty launch. Only five out of 12 Bulava launches have been reported successful. The previous failure occurred in July, when the missile self-destructed after its first stage malfunctioned. The latest launch had since been delayed several times. But some analysts suggest that in reality the number of failures has been considerably greater. According to Russian military expert Pavel Felgenhauer, of the Bulava's 11 test launches, only one was entirely successful. The future development of the Bulava has been questioned by some lawmakers and defense industry experts, who have suggested that all efforts should be focused on the existing Sineva SLBM. But the military has insisted there is no alternative to the Bulava and pledged to continue testing the missile until it is ready to be put in service with the Navy. The Bulava (SS-NX-30) SLBM carries up to 10 MIRV warheads and has a range of over 8,000 kilometers (5,000 miles). The three-stage solid-propellant ballistic missile is designed for deployment on Borey class nuclear-powered submarines. The Bulava, along with Topol-M land-based ballistic missiles, is expected to become the core of Russia's nuclear triad. MOSCOW, December 10 (RIA Novosti) Bulava failure must not stop tests - Russian arms sector official http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20090717/155547975.html 12:3817/07/2009 MOSCOW, July 17 (RIA Novosti) - Russia should continue test launches of the new Bulava submarine-launched ballistic missile despite a series of failures, a defense industry source said on Friday. On July 15, a Bulava SLBM self-destructed after its first stage malfunctioned when it was fired from the submerged Dmitry Donskoi strategic nuclear-powered submarine in the White Sea. "The tests of the Bulava should be continued after a thorough investigation of the incident. These failures are unavoidable during the development of new missiles," the source in the Russian government's Military-Industrial Committee said. He added, however, that the failure during the separation of the first stage was a serious concern because this had never previously been a problem. The source said the Bulava program had been overly politicized and fierce competition among the companies involved in the project was negatively affecting the manufacturing and the testing process. Six of the 11 test launches of the Bulava have ended in failure. The launches were temporarily suspended and the missile components were tested in the labs after a series of previous failures. An investigation established that the failure in December last year occurred because one of the subcontractors supplied faulty ejection cartridges which were used in the separation of the missile's stages. Russian security-related agencies could join the investigation into the July 15 failure because the incident may be considered an act of sabotage, a security official said on Friday. "A faulty part could be installed in a missile due to the absence of effective quality control by the manufacturer, or directly during the assembly. Taking into account the importance of the new missile for the naval component of Russia's nuclear triad, both cases will be considered acts of sabotage," the source said. The Russian military expects the Bulava, along with Topol-M land-based ballistic missiles, to become the core of Russia's nuclear triad. The Bulava (SS-NX-30) SLBM carries up to 10 MIRV warheads and has a range of over 8,000 kilometers (5,000 miles). The three-stage ballistic missile is designed for deployment on Borey-class Project 955 nuclear-powered submarines. Bulava missile self-destructs due to malfunction http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20090717/155551228.html 18:5917/07/2009 MOSCOW. (RIA Novosti military commentator Ilya Kramnik) - The latest test launch of the new Bulava submarine-launched ballistic missile has failed. The missile self-destructed after its first stage malfunctioned when it was fired on July 15 from the submerged Dmitry Donskoi strategic nuclear-powered submarine in the White Sea. In all, seven of the 11 test launches of the Bulava have ended in failure. Russian Navy chief Admiral Vladimir Kuroyedov ordered the creation of the Bulava SLBM in 1998 after three failed tests of the experimental Bark solid-fuel, sea-launched ballistic missile of the Makeyev design bureau. The order was placed with the Moscow Institute of Thermal Technology, which promised to create a cheaper and smaller system comparable to another project by the Institute, the Topol-M ground-based ballistic missile. Of the 11 test launches of one mockup and ten live missiles, only three test launches of live missiles succeeded. Therefore, the missile will not yet be put on combat duty. The Bulava has a record low safety ratio, approximately 30%, which is even lower than the ratio of the D-19 launch system with the R-39 SLBM - nine failures out of 17 test launches. After the bugs had been removed from the D-19 system, it showed reliable safety - 11 successful launches out of 13. Russia has an alternative to the Bulava missile, the RSM-54 Sineva (NATO codename: SS-N-23 Skiff), a third-generation, liquid-fuel ICBM that entered service with the Russian Navy in July 2007. It was created at the Makeyev design bureau and can carry four to 10 nuclear warheads, depending on the modification. Currently, the Sineva missile has been supplied to three Project 667 submarines - K-114 Tula, K-117 Bryansk, and the recently modernized K-18 Karelia. The Sineva has a longer range than the Bulava - 8,000 km, or 4,972 miles - and a larger payload. But the Bulava has a number of advantages, such as a much smaller takeoff trajectory, which complicates its interception by air defense systems, a smaller weight and dimensions, and solid-fuel engines. The latter simplifies its maintenance and use. However, all these are only theoretical advantages compared to the Sineva, which has recently had two successful test launches, on July 13 and 14. There are quite a few examples in Russian history when seemingly promising projects were curtailed after unsuccessful trials. One of the best-known examples is the N-1 booster designed to deliver 40-50 ton manned spacecraft into space, to orbit and then land on the Moon. The stubbornness with which the military continue the test launches of the Bulava makes one think that it is not engineers, scientists and the military, but auditors who should analyze the reasons for its failure. They should not look for "subversives" among workers and engineers, who are working hard to create the country's military systems for a meager monthly pay of 10,000-20,000 rubles ($631). Instead, they should call to account the highly paid directors of defense enterprises, who watched impassively as years of hard work and tens of billions of budgetary rubles were squandered. In the Soviet period, when the government closely monitored research and technical projects using methods that have since been denounced as inhumane and unjustified, plant directors and heads of design bureaus were sometimes victimized for lesser failures. Somehow, it seems improbable that anyone will be as much as fired for the failure of the Bulava. The Bulava (SS-NX-30) missile carries up to 10 MIRV warheads and has a range of over 8,000 kilometers (5,000 miles). The three-stage ballistic missile is designed for deployment on Borei-class Project 955 nuclear-powered submarines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_gooch Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Re: Fuckin' radical. there is about a thousand miles difference between Bergen,Norway and Geneva,Switzerland not when you are traveling through a wormhole!!!! :D 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo-f Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Now I'll agree that the Russians along with everyone else haven't always been honest about stuff but the failure of the Bulava has been publicly acknowledged waaaay before today by the Russians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SystemFailure Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Or riding out the wave on a U.S. ICBM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troofandroomaz Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 internet=must unreliable source for basically anything. don't tell me that any of that shit ^ is not loaded with cocksmoke...i'm still smelling bullshit. Melvin Frohicke says S my D. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earl broclo ESQ Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I don't remember this in any of my Time Life books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tavaruawon Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Well, this thread went absolutely nowhere. I've decided that Christo is a Russian disinfo agent here to spin the truth in circles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pornbooth Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 we had some weird shit like ths happen in the skies of phoenix when i was younger, these were red then after time they became colorful and grew rather fast as it spread through the atmosphere. im not gonna lie the first time i saw it i thought i was gonna die soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tavaruawon Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 ^ IT WAS THE RUSSIANS LAUNCHING SEKRAT MISSLES FROM THEIR UNDERWATER BASES IN THE GULF OF MEXICO. NO WORRIES BRO- THEY ADMITTED IT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pornbooth Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 WORMHOLE OVER NORWAY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n13K5BWZBP4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoes Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 axe a nigga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo-f Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 ^ IT WAS THE RUSSIANS LAUNCHING SEKRAT MISSLES FROM THEIR UNDERWATER BASES IN THE GULF OF MEXICO. NO WORRIES BRO- THEY ADMITTED IT. So, no more fancy insights from your friends disproving it was Bulava? We've got pretty strong visual evidence of a missile failure. We've got the Def. Min. admitting they launched a test missile in that area that failed, which they have done before and admitted, Which you had previously said they actually didn't do. Apart from Tavaruawon's equations, that were emailed by a "friend" of his, that were based on scratchy images taken from a distance of ???, from an elevation of ??? on a ??? camera, I can't find any Defense Min., Govt statement or indicator from any country that says there is doubt that it was a failed launch as has been stated in the same area where a number of failed launches of various types have been witnessed before. Of course it could have been some super cosmic laser that the Russians are secretly working on with the aliens lizard people that they fired off just before Obama arrived in Norway so he would have nightmares..., because supporting Iranian construction of enrichment facilities, threatening to sell them S-300 systems, invading Georgia, taking Ukraine back from the Orangists and threatening to buy a Mistral Class amphibious vessel from the French to threaten the Baltic states with just isn't doing the trick! For me, I'll go with the obvious and most probable rather than implying something. Guess you can't make an argument against evidence that doesn't exist!! *Edit - forgot to say "Just sayin".... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brickos Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Russian people... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screambloodygore Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 very black metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tavaruawon Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 For me, I'll go with the obvious and most probable rather than implying something. Guess you can't make an argument against evidence that doesn't exist!! You're right smart guy, ya' can't! You come to this conclusion after 4 pages? :lol: Christo, you haven't changed my opinion on the matter if that's what you were aimed to do. I still suggest that there is a whole lot more to the story then your news agency links would have anybody believing. If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck it's probably a fucking duck. It could also be a species of Goose if you're not an avid birdwatcher. BOOM NIGGA NOW OFF THY NUTS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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