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Art School Graffiti

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heres my question. not to get too art schooly, but do you think graffiti has to be done in the moment or can it be premeditated? for example, when you paint a wall, you are there, dealing with lack of light and the risk of getting caught and the marks you make on the wall are those of the moment, good or bad. if you design a wheatpaste or stencil, you are at your house working on it as long as you want, with no danger, in ideal conditions. you still have the illegality of applying it to an outside surface, but there is not a moment of creativity in the application.


would you consider revs welded street work graffiti?


aren't bolts and blowtorches the equivelant of markers and paint?

they all serve the purpose of adhereing a work of creativity to a public or private fixture with the possibility of being seen by the public.:confused:


of course sometimes its fun to walk the fence between graffiti and fine art. i wonder what sonik thinks of this.

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Originally posted by ctrl+alt+del

hmmmm. i for one have always liked mos def.


i use to be a hard core purist hip hopper like some of you. Fuck mtv, Fuck all commercial cats. Fuck rock. Its all about the 4 elements....blah blah blah blah blah.

thats so close minded though.there is some really good music out there, and to hate it because too many other people like it is pure pullshit. ozzy osbourne is fucking mainstream as hell, and hes a rocker. but that bastard makes some dope music, and I like it. I like listening to it. It fits my mood sometimes, and for anyone to say, hes not underground therefore he sucks, is just plain idiotic.


the only thing I truly despise is anyone who likes something purely because other people like it. thats disgusting.


yea...I agree. Mos Def is extremely talented...that comment was alluding to people who listen to something only because others like it.

sometimes music is popular for a reason...

if you DON'T listen to it only because its popular...you're going to the other extreme.

and I think the whole idea of 4 elements is kind of lame, at least when you follow them religiously anyways.

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Graffiti is Universal


Fuck that shit when people say graffiti is only letters or spray paint thats all Bull shit. Graffiti a street influenced art. You can use spray paint, markers, buckets o paint, charcoal, crayons, chalk what ever the fuck you want to use. Medium of choice is spray paint cause it covers fast and easy. And graffiti is just postin what you want where you want weather it be legal or illegal.

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I was feeling this post, and I read rhettdec's comments on hip hops correllation to graffiti. Basically I feel that you don't have to be a hip hop kid to write graffiti. Graffiti is more or less something anyone can do. However, as far as WRITING graffiti in the sense we use, I still believe you don't need to be a hip hop kid to do it. I agree with the comment earlier , the one saying anyone could do graffiti, from a Hip Hopper, to A metalhead, to a Beat-nik. Graffiti, is truly, in my mind considered an element of hip hop becuase it came about during the invention of hip hop. The kids in those days would listen to their oldschool hip hop, go rack some cans, and go destroy a train. Its correllation with hip hop is the "Styles" if you will. I don't know, maybe I've watched too much style wars, but if you look at it, Everyone on there was talking about style. People were pissed becuase Cap's style was just simple throwies, but he got up with them. The hardcore peices were pissed because he was destroying everything with something that although simple, had a style all of its own. Then later they show CaseII rapping, and it brings up the fact that rappers have different styles aswell in that era(and now aswell). You have your slow rappers, with thoughtful lyrics and you have your middle speed rappers, and you have you speed demons who can rap at insane speeds. It was a style battle there. Breaking and Turntablism had style battles. The link with hip hop is that everything was based on style, and still is. However thats where it Ends in my opinion. To say that people who don't listen to hip hop can't write graffiti or shouldn't is asinine at best. I mean, look at Blade. He gave birth to the conceptional peice if my memory serves me, what was he writing to? Black Sabbath, Metal. Sure there was hip hop in there aswell, but Most of what I've read on him was about him and his boys love of Sabbath and their metal. Graffiti isn't about hip hop as much as it used to be..Now its more of a focus on fame than on style. What cracks me up is that I'll sit here and look at flicks in the bench. And if say a famous writer was put next to a peice that crushed it...the people would jump on the famous writers nuts instead of giving the other peice credit. Now its all about fame.


As far art school graffiti, and just being a char. burner and such, or not even writing a stable name. Its intriguing, becuase you can't tell why its done. Granted its a rush to sit back and bust a throwie, or peice or something, but they get nothing out of it, except perhaps a "Wow, thats a decent _____". Its confusing but I still appreciate it for the art value. Its not typical, and I'm sure thats why I enjoy looking at it so much. I mean yeah, whats great about graffiti is that A marker tag will get peole to say "Oh, look at that vandal, what does that say?". A Throwie will get a "Ugh, thats horrible, They defaced that building...why would someone write ______ there anyway?", and a peice will get a "Wow, thats interesting, Its vandalism but its appealing, ______? Hmm, not bad for a vandal"...or something along those lines. When someone does it for pure pleasure of just art, you really don't know what to call them. Part of me wants to say "Wow, hes a decent writer", Another part wants to say, "Wow, thats cool, but they aren't really a writer" and part wants to assume that if they aren't in it for fame, they are in it just to destroy property. I'm not a big fan of property destruction without purpose.


I used to paint with this guy who was in it just to vandalize stuff. Wouldn't work on anything. No styles, nothing. Just wanted to vandalize shit becuase he had nothing better to do. I Say FUCK THAT. Don't get me wrong, I'm a hypocrit for saying that seeing as I got out and paint all the time. However, I do it for the fame, and becuase I want to get better. I want to be able to quit one day..or perhaps die and people say.."Wow, ____ Died...You know, he was slept on way too much". I don't want to be a really famous writer, I just want to be up there, as one of the slept on guys around. Not too big, but big enough to know that one day I may influence atleast one guy. I'm rambling now, so I'll stop. I apologize, I just love graffiti, and love talking about it.

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i kind of disagree with kids going to school for graff...i goto an art school...but i go for music...and the kids there...wow...so played...all they do is goto legals draw characters and shitty throws...and every single kid does it now...so wack...i dont even tell kids i write now...so wack sooooo wack

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  • 4 weeks later...

this shit truely pisses me off because i cant front some o them art school niggaz are dope as hell but i got into graffiti to bomb and destroy shit.


fuck creating, when i was a young blood all i knew was throwups and tags. i started as a bomber and now cause nyc cleaned everything i am forced to piece and work on sketches.

so even if art school kids are dope. fuck em.

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Guest OVERsketched

Graff is considered in my mind what you want it to be. You make you own definition and if it gets you respect let it be. I dont care what people think if they hate it then fine if they like it and give me props well that is a bonus. But i have known to many people to take dissing to heart and they had pure skill but gave up due to this fact.

The graff world is to biased, i mean i hate toys who fuck the system up for recognition just so they can bragg to there school mates about it. But some toys are the ones that are the next generation of graffers, these ones need help in ways and cant get it because of the BIG HEADINESS of alot of writers.

Another point is that art school is really good for the ART MINDED person. My sister tried to get into really good fashion course but got declined based on a biased view towards PRIVATE school kids.She went to art school completed the 13th year as they call it in Australia and then she got excepted into one of the best Unis in the world for fashion. But art school aint for the every day punk who wants it just for graff. If you want to go to art school use that for your ocupation.

I do personlly lie some of the work that people do with spray paint and it looks really cool you can learn alot off omeone that isnt trying to get up or recognition for there lettering style.

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if they can do sick characters or whutever let them. people are to into whuts "in" at this point they want to fit into something that dosent fit into anything at all therefore you cant really label sumthing graffiti just as you can label something graffiti. its all in your mind. and if some one goes to art school to better themselves who cares. graffiti(for me at least) is kept in my heart and head and could give a fuck about everyone else. fame is cool but who cares whut others think? at the end of the day ur the only one thats guna be there for you to say "damn im good" i could be wrong but let people be. once you start labeling graffiti where is it guna stop?

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  • 1 year later...
Originally posted by Graf Orlok

I just wanted to try to get a discussion going about non-traditional graffiti - aka art school graffiti. Is it legit? What do you all think about artists who are using aerisol but have no intentions of learning or even attempting letter styles. I have seen a growth of graffiti that involves characters and images without a 'tag'. Are these people graffiti writers or just public painters? Is text a requirement for graffiti?

Some great writers seem better known (at least to the greater public) for characters more than letter styles... Twist, Bigfoot, Dalek....

I know these people all are also taggers as well, but what about someone who doesn't even try 'traditional' graffiti, like Banksy? Which brings us to the topics of wheatpasting and propaganda. Is it graffiti? What about somebody who uses graf letters but doesn't subscribe to a handle, or particular tag? If these people aren't 'writers', what do we call them?

I enjoy all types, and I guess it is just a matter of labelling.


Oh yeah, I'm fully aware that a post of this type will brand me both an 'art fag' and a 'toy', so there is no need to post a reply saying so. I'm also aware that the lack of ghetto slang may make some members suspect that I am a cop. So please, there are hundreds of other threads that you can post your disses on, let us keep this one thoughtful and intelligent, if at all possible.



i actually think this is a pretty good discussion, i havent bothered to read anybodies reply's cuz i typically figure a buncha little kids will just try to slam on you for it. heres my take: graffiti is simply writing on somebody elses property. it can be artistic and it can be delivering a message. a graff artist is somebody who does graffiti and is recognized individually for his/her work. some are real artists and some have no artistic talent wutsoever. i get tired of seeing people that fucking suck at tagging putting shitty ass throw ups all over our lovely city of Atlanta. that is not art, it is vandalism. now if you can make it good it may be vandalism still but its more of a blessing to me, as long as you dont do it on sumbodies car or sumthin like that. and dont do it all around the legal yard because that gives us a bad name. i see too many writers out there that are just out for fame rather then self fulfillment. my take on illegal graffiti is a quote i read sumwhere but cant remember who said it: "i can go spray a dot on the side of my house today and its cool, its my art. tonight i can go paint the most beautiful peace i've ever done on the side of my neighbors house and its considered vandalism."


anyways, i would say kids that dont tag letters or anything of that sort just doing characters or just putting abstract paintings up. most of the time i would classify it as graffiti art or aerosol art. when it gives off the vibe and when they are doing it just to do it. every writer leaves his signature with every piece he paints. and by signature i dont mean a mark out to the side of ur piece saying ur name.

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Originally posted by Fabo 2

Graffiti, in the eyes of the law is criminal damage. In my eyes, you gotta write something to be a writer.


well put. but then again, in my view if someone uses the same stencil to get up over again (illegally) then i put them in the "writer" catagory.

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what is art school graff? i mean it's such a dumb statement (no offense)


i know a bunch of kids who went to art school or majored in art in non "art schools" and they write. i mean i judge them by their personality and style.


i can't see how it can hurt if you have some background on certain elements of design and balance and all that good stuff.


i got into graff when i was like 14 (1989). it was graff that got me into art, not the other way around. i never went to an art school, but i am an art edu. major now.


i think people need to stop having closed minds and stop being so overly analytical!


and by the way, if it aint illegal, it aint graff.

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to me, its a breath of fresh air to see something original, its refreshing to get away from the strict adherence to letterform and the aspects of "traditional" writing. the way i see it is, where would graffiti be today if noone tried anything new?

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i believe by art school graff he meant kids that go to art school and start graffiti and kind of like me they dont really bomb or anything. ya? i cant say i've been to art school and probly never will because i dont got that kind of money and neither do my parents. such a shame... for wutever it is that got u into graffiti it doesn't matter, wut matters is if u stick with it.

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If you consider that art why cant letters be considered as art and why is it legal to do those sort of paintings and not pieces. of course there shoud be some rules about legal pieces like for example you can do a piece here but if we see ur tag appear anywhere we can get you charged. as long as they abide by that i cant see any difference in the two.

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...pretty sweet two year old thread...


...first and foremost i must assert that work that exists in a gallery is not graffiti...it is art that references graffiti, but it exists in the context of other work in galleries (paintings, sculpture)...so a twist painting that he did in an alley is completely different than the same image painted on a canvas and hung in a gallery...


...wheat-pasteing and painting are also two completely differnt things...i've done both and respect both but they are definately different...is it all Graffiti?...sure, i don't care...call it whatever you like...it won't change what it is...

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this is the first time I've seen this thread. Real nice conversations.

I think about everything has been covered, and I agree with many of you.

I, personally, don't seperate art and graffiti very often. It's all just different forms of art to me. I prefer public street level art that speaks to the masses, and even better if it was done without permission and in a creative place. Location location location is what they say!

I also agree with the guy who said he's bored with artists who do the same thing over and over. How fun is that to do it again and again? For me it's all about the act or process of painting, the fun of trying something new or seeing an idea come to life. I'll get in a groove and experiment with a certain style or motif for awhile, but then I'll get bored and move on. But it's different for everyone so I can't talk, and It doesn't worry me too much. Dalek has some ill shit and he changes it up. I do wish I would see those spcae Monkey scenes on some bridge or train instead of in a gallery though.

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