Erace Posted January 7, 2002 Share Posted January 7, 2002 The biggest setback to graffiti's evolution is the fact that it's mainly done by kids in their late teens/early twenties and, with the exception of a few people, is typically abandoned after only a few years of doing it. People in this age bracket are not as capable of innovating from experience as those who practice their art form up into the elder stage of their life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Orlok Posted January 7, 2002 Author Share Posted January 7, 2002 Another point of view Originally posted by rhettdec man first if your not hip hop dont fuckin even think of it. if you do start fakin it dont ever come to savannah with intentions of painting or ill kill you. stop fucking raping hip hop. go drink your coffee at starbucs and listen to ...... So I guess this point of view, although quickly falling into petty threats of violence, is that since graf originated with hip hop, that it is wrong for someone to seperate those things. That people who aren't really dedicated to hip hop in all its incarnations shouldn't take on any of it. And by this logic a rapper who isn't also into graf is just as bad. And I'm assuming this means that all writers should also be break dancers. I think what is great about graf is that it can cross all types of personal lifestyles - from hardcore gangsters to metalheads to coffehouse cruisin' beatniks. Perhaps non=hip hop graf isn't true graf - but it is still out there and is a positive thing. Maybe I'm misunderstanding this post, cuz it does end by telling us to do what we want (except in Savannah). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socks Posted January 7, 2002 Share Posted January 7, 2002 if you didnt associate the term graffiti with what you did would you still do it? this is for everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiberoptical Posted January 7, 2002 Share Posted January 7, 2002 no...I would call myself an advertising agent for the governement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcia_vega Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 Originally posted by INDEPENDENZA Trying to keep graffiti in the boundaries of "letters with 3d and uni" is like fascism. graff would be better and more creative if more people tried to step away from letterings. i completely and totally disagree with you with every ounce of my being. graffiti is about letters. graf would not be better if it stepped away from letters graf would not be anything. that's like saying basketball would be better if people stopped trying to throw the ball through the hoop all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhettdec Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 yes i think a mc who doesnt recognize graff is wak, and i think a graff writer should as well recognize breaking as hiphop. yes im one of those people you dont like i wear a large silver chain and a silver hoop earing in each ear and im into hiphop purism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhettdec Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 oh ya...... i said if your hiphop do what ever you want with it. and if your not hiphop dont fuc with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BROWNer Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 hey rhettdec, oh knowledgable one, was seen a hiphopper? also; i really want to hear your argument for hiphop purism.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanity Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 jsut wreck shit, and there is no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_b0b Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 Originally posted by KASTsystem no...(no disrespect to those who consider themselves writers though) How would you classify yourself then? I really like the stuff you do, so I'm curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipples-galore Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 Originally posted by INDEPENDENZA i think graffiti as we know it (tags, throws, pieces) is still young and has to evolve, crossing boundaries... i dont think it has fully matured yet. i agree......this is a relatively young art-form which has an eternity of evolving ahead of it (which is what makes it so great, there are endless possibilities of what will emerge next). But as long as people have the "if its not letters and aerosol, it isn't graffitti" attitude, it will progress at a much slower rate. Abstract painting wouldn't have been considered a legitimate form of "painting" in renaissance (sp?) times, but because artists have been doing their own thing from the very beginning and not being confined by a definition of what art is has evolved countless other forms of art. I dont know if that thought came out clearly...but I hope you get the idea. Like it or not, this new genre of artsy graff isn't going anywhere (persnally, it's my favorite genre of graff.... if I had to choose), and while it may not be considered traditional graffiti by some, who cares?.....if it's what youre into, do it. Art isnt about following what other people tell you art is, its about creating, and painting what your head tells you art is. This post isn't directed at anyone, I'm just voicing my thoughts... I'm not trying to say anyone's opinion is wrong, because its not....it's just your opinion, and you cant really knock anyone else for doing their own thing, it would be an incredibly boring world if everyone thought the same and painted the same, dont you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipples-galore Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 Originally posted by Cursedx3 Graffiti shouldn't be about whether it fits in or not. As long as someone goes out to write for a purpose other than just "wrecking shit", let them do whatever the hell they want. or i could have written this and saved myself alot of time. damn, ive got to learn to read all the posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 well i think that if any thing, this thread will teach us that graffiti artists around the world have different ideas about what graffiti is and that is part of what makes graff great. Now you dont have to do the same old shit to enjoy graffiti. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Orlok Posted April 9, 2002 Author Share Posted April 9, 2002 How To Become a Famous Artist Pick an object to paint - pick a style to paint it in - and paint this object in this style over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and maybe come up with another object, but make sure it isn't too different from the original object or else people won't know it is you and you'll have to start over. Seriously - what I wouldn't give for Dalek to draw that fuckin' monkey thing pointing to the right just for once - or maybe an Obey stencil featuring the Iron Sheik - or a Bigfoot painting of the Lochness Monster. You get what I'm saying. Where does 'style' end and the blatent fear of trying something new or different begin. While I don't expect Twist to start working in bright neon colors, or Saber to start doing woodcut prints, maybe some of our favorite artists have fallen into a repetitive slump, and are getting jocked all the more for it. I just get bummed when I see an art show featuring 'street' artists, or graffiti pieces for that matter, and I could just as easily sat at home and told you exactly what it looks like. How far can one idea be taken. I could draw a teapot everywhere for years, a green teapot, and I would likely gain more noteraiety than by pushing my boundries and taking risks, but then I would be known as the guy who paints green teapots. But maybe I am wrong, maybe these artist are all young and styles develope and change over the course of decades, not months. Perhaps I should critisize Van Gogh for using the same palette, or MC Esher or HR Geiger or Ansel Adams. Maybe these (and all) artists do work in other genres and materials but aren't known for that. Perhaps I am bitter because I haven't found my object to do over and over and over. I think way too much. I totally respect that each artist does what he or she wants to do, and that is exactly what they should do. I just get a bit lost in over-analysis sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sound Posted April 9, 2002 Share Posted April 9, 2002 I think the whole graffiti scene would be a lot funner if everyone just did their own thing...basically I'm saying stop worrying about who is a toy or what is a toy or what is a writer or what is graffiti...do your work to live up to your own self-actualized standards...sure there's poeple who are into graffiti to be cool, or to be "special" in society, or to achieve some kind of fame, but why does that matter? worrying about it only takes the fun out of graffiti. you should do your graffiti, or art, to meet your own ideals, purposes, expectations, and standards...as long as you do that, your work demands a good deal of respect no matter what it looks like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artsol Posted April 9, 2002 Share Posted April 9, 2002 The writers u mentioned (DALEK,TWIST,BIGFOOT...) are all in my group of favorite writers. IT's ill looking, it's vandalism using paint/ink, it's graffiti.I'm not feelin cats who can go and study some magazines, emulate it and put it into a gallery as 'graffiti art'. All graf that is done for a reason beyond the expected is ill. But of course...there's a lot of bullshit closeminded elitism in graf as I am slowly realizing. Those cats are graf writers/artists. Don't forget ECB GRAPHICS...tis INSAAAAAAAAAANE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sound Posted April 9, 2002 Share Posted April 9, 2002 Originally posted by rhettdec yes i think a mc who doesnt recognize graff is wak, and i think a graff writer should as well recognize breaking as hiphop. yes im one of those people you dont like i wear a large silver chain and a silver hoop earing in each ear and im into hiphop purism. while I too consider myself a hip hop purist, I'm not too closed-minded to recognize that graffiti has existed since the beginning of humanity, well before hip hop ever existed...I believe beatboxing should be the 4th element, not dj ing. i don't believe in MTV. I don't believe "true" hip hop should be sold at all...I belive true hip hop is rapping amongst your friends...beatboxing and breakdancing...not wearing Karl Kani and bumping mos def in your Honda Civic... the definition of purist hip hop is "creating something out of nothing"...that means something that doesn't cost money...therefore "purist" hip hop does not fit into the scheme of commercialism at all. graffiti is only considered a part of hip hop because it would be difficult to grasp otherwise...its almost an intangible concept. graffiti is a social phenomenon-the substance of cultural revolution. The assertion that graffiti is only for those who practice and acknowledge the other "elements" of "hip hop", reeks of ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ctrl+alt+del Posted April 9, 2002 Share Posted April 9, 2002 hmmmm. i for one have always liked mos def. i use to be a hard core purist hip hopper like some of you. Fuck mtv, Fuck all commercial cats. Fuck rock. Its all about the 4 elements....blah blah blah blah blah. thats so close minded though.there is some really good music out there, and to hate it because too many other people like it is pure pullshit. ozzy osbourne is fucking mainstream as hell, and hes a rocker. but that bastard makes some dope music, and I like it. I like listening to it. It fits my mood sometimes, and for anyone to say, hes not underground therefore he sucks, is just plain idiotic. the only thing I truly despise is anyone who likes something purely because other people like it. thats disgusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeaMVCali2 Posted April 9, 2002 Share Posted April 9, 2002 whats that guys name who was andy whorhol(sp?)s friend and also wrote but got famous for painting and then died off of herion. they made a movie about him. Jean Marsaille or something frenchy. thats cool. the herion that is. (good god how do you spell herion?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted April 9, 2002 Share Posted April 9, 2002 Jean Michelle Basquiat... he wrote Samo but wasn't really involved in the scene... I think it was more of a hobby that he dabbled in, rather than dedication to an art form... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CountRockula Posted April 9, 2002 Share Posted April 9, 2002 Graf Orlok, An original take on Nosferatu. Inspired by the pre-production sketches German artist Albin Grau did for the 1922 movie classic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotgutparty Posted April 9, 2002 Share Posted April 9, 2002 heres my question. not to get too art schooly, but do you think graffiti has to be done in the moment or can it be premeditated? for example, when you paint a wall, you are there, dealing with lack of light and the risk of getting caught and the marks you make on the wall are those of the moment, good or bad. if you design a wheatpaste or stencil, you are at your house working on it as long as you want, with no danger, in ideal conditions. you still have the illegality of applying it to an outside surface, but there is not a moment of creativity in the application. would you consider revs welded street work graffiti? aren't bolts and blowtorches the equivelant of markers and paint? they all serve the purpose of adhereing a work of creativity to a public or private fixture with the possibility of being seen by the public.:confused: of course sometimes its fun to walk the fence between graffiti and fine art. i wonder what sonik thinks of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sound Posted April 9, 2002 Share Posted April 9, 2002 Originally posted by ctrl+alt+del hmmmm. i for one have always liked mos def. i use to be a hard core purist hip hopper like some of you. Fuck mtv, Fuck all commercial cats. Fuck rock. Its all about the 4 elements....blah blah blah blah blah. thats so close minded though.there is some really good music out there, and to hate it because too many other people like it is pure pullshit. ozzy osbourne is fucking mainstream as hell, and hes a rocker. but that bastard makes some dope music, and I like it. I like listening to it. It fits my mood sometimes, and for anyone to say, hes not underground therefore he sucks, is just plain idiotic. the only thing I truly despise is anyone who likes something purely because other people like it. thats disgusting. yea...I agree. Mos Def is extremely talented...that comment was alluding to people who listen to something only because others like it. sometimes music is popular for a reason... if you DON'T listen to it only because its popular...you're going to the other extreme. and I think the whole idea of 4 elements is kind of lame, at least when you follow them religiously anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fabo 2 Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 Graffiti, in the eyes of the law is criminal damage. In my eyes, you gotta write something to be a writer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJohnStudd Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 Graffiti is Universal Fuck that shit when people say graffiti is only letters or spray paint thats all Bull shit. Graffiti a street influenced art. You can use spray paint, markers, buckets o paint, charcoal, crayons, chalk what ever the fuck you want to use. Medium of choice is spray paint cause it covers fast and easy. And graffiti is just postin what you want where you want weather it be legal or illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssAyEmEe3 Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 I was feeling this post, and I read rhettdec's comments on hip hops correllation to graffiti. Basically I feel that you don't have to be a hip hop kid to write graffiti. Graffiti is more or less something anyone can do. However, as far as WRITING graffiti in the sense we use, I still believe you don't need to be a hip hop kid to do it. I agree with the comment earlier , the one saying anyone could do graffiti, from a Hip Hopper, to A metalhead, to a Beat-nik. Graffiti, is truly, in my mind considered an element of hip hop becuase it came about during the invention of hip hop. The kids in those days would listen to their oldschool hip hop, go rack some cans, and go destroy a train. Its correllation with hip hop is the "Styles" if you will. I don't know, maybe I've watched too much style wars, but if you look at it, Everyone on there was talking about style. People were pissed becuase Cap's style was just simple throwies, but he got up with them. The hardcore peices were pissed because he was destroying everything with something that although simple, had a style all of its own. Then later they show CaseII rapping, and it brings up the fact that rappers have different styles aswell in that era(and now aswell). You have your slow rappers, with thoughtful lyrics and you have your middle speed rappers, and you have you speed demons who can rap at insane speeds. It was a style battle there. Breaking and Turntablism had style battles. The link with hip hop is that everything was based on style, and still is. However thats where it Ends in my opinion. To say that people who don't listen to hip hop can't write graffiti or shouldn't is asinine at best. I mean, look at Blade. He gave birth to the conceptional peice if my memory serves me, what was he writing to? Black Sabbath, Metal. Sure there was hip hop in there aswell, but Most of what I've read on him was about him and his boys love of Sabbath and their metal. Graffiti isn't about hip hop as much as it used to be..Now its more of a focus on fame than on style. What cracks me up is that I'll sit here and look at flicks in the bench. And if say a famous writer was put next to a peice that crushed it...the people would jump on the famous writers nuts instead of giving the other peice credit. Now its all about fame. As far art school graffiti, and just being a char. burner and such, or not even writing a stable name. Its intriguing, becuase you can't tell why its done. Granted its a rush to sit back and bust a throwie, or peice or something, but they get nothing out of it, except perhaps a "Wow, thats a decent _____". Its confusing but I still appreciate it for the art value. Its not typical, and I'm sure thats why I enjoy looking at it so much. I mean yeah, whats great about graffiti is that A marker tag will get peole to say "Oh, look at that vandal, what does that say?". A Throwie will get a "Ugh, thats horrible, They defaced that building...why would someone write ______ there anyway?", and a peice will get a "Wow, thats interesting, Its vandalism but its appealing, ______? Hmm, not bad for a vandal"...or something along those lines. When someone does it for pure pleasure of just art, you really don't know what to call them. Part of me wants to say "Wow, hes a decent writer", Another part wants to say, "Wow, thats cool, but they aren't really a writer" and part wants to assume that if they aren't in it for fame, they are in it just to destroy property. I'm not a big fan of property destruction without purpose. I used to paint with this guy who was in it just to vandalize stuff. Wouldn't work on anything. No styles, nothing. Just wanted to vandalize shit becuase he had nothing better to do. I Say FUCK THAT. Don't get me wrong, I'm a hypocrit for saying that seeing as I got out and paint all the time. However, I do it for the fame, and becuase I want to get better. I want to be able to quit one day..or perhaps die and people say.."Wow, ____ Died...You know, he was slept on way too much". I don't want to be a really famous writer, I just want to be up there, as one of the slept on guys around. Not too big, but big enough to know that one day I may influence atleast one guy. I'm rambling now, so I'll stop. I apologize, I just love graffiti, and love talking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SYE Posted April 13, 2002 Share Posted April 13, 2002 You can't go to school for graffiti but you can use that knowledge to making your graffiti better.(ie-shading,fading,dimensioning,...etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.:armr:. Posted April 16, 2002 Share Posted April 16, 2002 i kind of disagree with kids going to school for graff...i goto an art school...but i go for music...and the kids there...wow...so played...all they do is goto legals draw characters and shitty throws...and every single kid does it now...so wack...i dont even tell kids i write now...so wack sooooo wack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest expansionAE Posted April 16, 2002 Share Posted April 16, 2002 hmmm.... i havent heard of it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThKillerInMe Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 this shit truely pisses me off because i cant front some o them art school niggaz are dope as hell but i got into graffiti to bomb and destroy shit. fuck creating, when i was a young blood all i knew was throwups and tags. i started as a bomber and now cause nyc cleaned everything i am forced to piece and work on sketches. so even if art school kids are dope. fuck em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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