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projetmayhem

Tea Party

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Bernie Sanders speaking the truth:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5OtB298fHY

 

Republicans just voted "No" and blocked keeping the tax cuts for the Middle Class. Because they want tax cuts for the rich more than anyone.

 

The key to growing a strong economy is growing the Middle Class and shrinking the gap between rich & poor. Giving more tax cuts for the rich does just the opposite.

 

 

I should first state that I have no real interest in US partisan politics. My so while I have been arguing for free market principles, I don't necessarily support the Tea Party or GOP more than I do anyone else. So the following critique should be understood as a critique of Sanders line of argument, not partisan status.

 

I listened to this speech and I think there are some real problems with it. Primarily the problem is that of a relative discussion of wealth. As was mentioned earlier, talking about the top 1% of society reviving x% of wealth is problematic if all of society is objectively better off. It's the 'cake and its slices' debate again.

 

The next problem is that when talking about tax cuts for the rich, the Berndog is ignoring that in a progressive taxation system those who are in the top income brackets pay a higher rate. This means that not only are they paying a higher total amount of tax, they are also paying more tax relative to those who earn less. Can you really call it a 'tax break' if it was a higher relative amount to start with?

 

The final problem is that it tends to be those in the higher income brackets who generate the wealth to begin with. Wealth is not a zero sum game, and those who have greater ability to generate wealth though entrepreneurial activity obviously are likely to earn more of it themselves. In this way decreasing the tax for the wealthy may increase the overall tax base by providing decreasing the disincentive to operate in the market..

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anyone see any LOLZ in the new congress?

they spent months preaching fiscal responsibility and returning to the constitution, yet spent their entire first day wasting thousands of dollars reading the constitution to everyone and not only that, but the house had to debate which parts were 'offensive' which parts to leave out. they are also proposing a bill that would require all legislation to have to cite a specific clause in the constitution which gives congress the authority to act on such matters. i love the idea, but sadly, no power exists in the federal constitution for congress to pass such a law!

 

im sure the debates on what to cut will continue...which all seem to be similar to:

"well guys, should we cut 5$ or 10$ off a trip to moon.?' in another words, lets put on a show about cuts but lets grow government instead

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Yes, and another major LOLZ on that note is the fact that while they were wasting all that time and money reading the constitution, two of the ol' GOP'ers weren't even sworn in, as required by the constitution which they were making the (expensive) point to uphold, but were casting their votes regardless. Oh the ironing...

 

http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz-in-national/gop-scrambles-after-two-representatives-illegally-cast-votes-without-taking-oath

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I find it interesting that whenever issues involving a corporitist relationship between business and state like this are raised it is considered to be a problem of capitalism. It is tragic that native people are being forced from their tradtional land, but I dont see it as a problem with captialism per se. More so a problem caused by general apathy towards coercive force. In absense of capitalism, the same scenario is played out where any powerfull group is prepared to use force to gain access to resources in an area occupied by traditional peoples.

 

But hey, we discussed this kind of stuff in the other thread and you didn't reply.

 

Holy hell my bad! I didn't reply in the other thread because I was away from electricity for a very long time and when I came back my thoughts in the discussion no longer seemed relevant.. I almost forgot about this one as well! Yeah I was drinking a little that night, as my ridiculous use of pictures suggests.

 

Anyways, I guess I just have a different view on what capitalism really is. For example, the USSR is more capitalist than socialist in my mind, because they still compete against other countries to maximize production, the means of production are still held by the few (elite government officials) rather than by the people, and the production of material goods is still more important than living things. Socialism to me is saying, "Hey! Lets share some stuff and produce things people actually need to survive, instead of working to produce a bunch of meaningless shit that only the powerful can own while thousands in every community go without having their needs met."

 

I agree with you that it's not only capitalism.. and I also agree with you that apathy towards coercive force is a big one too. But I think the root of the current problems in this world rests on the globalized industrial economy that is dependent upon technology and transportation infrastructure that needs to be constantly served by an ever decreasing amount of available resources. Communities that live above (oil) or around (timber) resources don't typically let rich countries have these resources until their community has been destroyed. We call this War (if there is a nation opposed to it) and we call it genocide or expropriation (if the Government represents transnational corporate interests instead of its own people). (note: if you feel like it, read into what's been going on in the Nigerian Delta's http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2007/02/nigerian-oil/oneill-text)

 

Before industrialized society, I would say that the root of all the worlds problems were caused by... well.. civilization and intensive agriculture, which is also dependent upon the importation of resources. Cities could not grow and would collapse very quickly without the siphoning of wealth and resources from areas around them. Economies that require expansion and growth will never be sustainable on a finite planet. I hate to get extremely tellurian-esque but humanity won't be here for many more generations unless something changes on a fundamental scale.

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Holy hell my bad! I didn't reply in the other thread because I was away from electricity for a very long time and when I came back my thoughts in the discussion no longer seemed relevant.. I almost forgot about this one as well! Yeah I was drinking a little that night, as my ridiculous use of pictures suggests.

 

Anyways, I guess I just have a different view on what capitalism really is. For example, the USSR is more capitalist than socialist in my mind, because they still compete against other countries to maximize production, the means of production are still held by the few (elite government officials) rather than by the people, and the production of material goods is still more important than living things. Socialism to me is saying, "Hey! Lets share some stuff and produce things people actually need to survive, instead of working to produce a bunch of meaningless shit that only the powerful can own while thousands in every community go without having their needs met."

 

I agree with you that it's not only capitalism.. and I also agree with you that apathy towards coercive force is a big one too. But I think the root of the current problems in this world rests on the globalized industrial economy that is dependent upon technology and transportation infrastructure that needs to be constantly served by an ever decreasing amount of available resources. Communities that live above (oil) or around (timber) resources don't typically let rich countries have these resources until their community has been destroyed. We call this War (if there is a nation opposed to it) and we call it genocide or expropriation (if the Government represents transnational corporate interests instead of its own people). (note: if you feel like it, read into what's been going on in the Nigerian Delta's http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2007/02/nigerian-oil/oneill-text)

 

Before industrialized society, I would say that the root of all the worlds problems were caused by... well.. civilization and intensive agriculture, which is also dependent upon the importation of resources. Cities could not grow and would collapse very quickly without the siphoning of wealth and resources from areas around them. Economies that require expansion and growth will never be sustainable on a finite planet. I hate to get extremely tellurian-esque but humanity won't be here for many more generations unless something changes on a fundamental scale.

 

Nice article, thanks for the heads up. Most of this is equally relevant to the free market thread so I will write more substantial reply there.

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On a side note the USSR no longer exists so you probably shouldn't refer to it in the present tense.

LOL. Good call.. But seeing that the typo was the only thing you commented on I'm guessing you agree with everything else? Or just don't give a shit?

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This seems as good a place as any to post this cool interview. It briefly canvases some of the same issues that have come up between Mams and I as well as Theo and AOD.

 

183. We Do Not Need a State

Lew Rockwell interviews Roderick T. Long.

 

Professor Long stresses that the state is just a bunch of people, not supermen. Its power is an illusion, coercing us only because we consent to be ruled. But education about the State, and alternative networks, empower an ever-greater number to withdraw their consent from the power-hungry, tax-eating, violent apparatus whose abuses result in many evils, including piles of dead bodies.

 

Anarchy, the absence of a ruler, is impossible, say its opponents. In fact, it is becoming ever more possible, and ever more necessary.

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Conservatives/Libertarians want America to look like Somalia.

 

Somalia has:

 

Small central government with little control

Low to non-existent taxes

More power in local regions/states, by local warlords

No separation between religion & state

Everyone armed and owns guns

The few wealthy elite controlling & running everything

 

Yo Theo Check this article;

Better Off Stateless:Somalia Before and After Government Collapse*

Peter T. Leeson

Department of Economics West Virginia University

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Interesting reference. I know I’m always erroring on the side of distrust, but do believe that both are great examples of movements that were sabotaged as both represented credible threats to the establishment. Think there was even a documentary on Netflix that showed how occupy was co-opted and the derailed. 

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"banking industry" planted fake homeless in their groups who were there to intentionally start fights. Then the police had a green light to arrest. @misteraven

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10 minutes ago, KILZ FILLZ said:

"banking industry" planted fake homeless in their groups who were there to intentionally start fights. Then the police had a green light to arrest. @misteraven

Sounds about right. Think the documentary mentioned that they had some known trouble maker come in and take over a leadership role. Can’t recall the specifics but someone that’s known to very publicly pop radical shit but somehow always ends up in the right place at the right time. Maybe one of you guys can dig up a link to the documentary or something. Already stopped paying close attention to all the political games by that point. 

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Trump's republican party IS the new tea party. Unfortunately the anti-tax/government spending people fed up with fiscal irresponsibility were eventually brigaded by the anti Obama people, many of  whom's true intentions were repressed due to PC culture. This culminated in Trump's massive appeal, and sorely needed re-energizing of the Republican Party's voting base. You can't just cater to openly corrupt large business, you need to give your base of regular folks something to get excited about. Very strange a city slicker NY Democrat was able to sweep through the republicans so fast, but the political climate of 2016 was almost a perfect storm that Trump was able to capitalize on via dog whistling.

 

pedophiles.jpg.33051eea45e126c38bfa0b5486b2aea7.jpg

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1 hour ago, KILZ FILLZ said:

"banking industry" planted fake homeless in their groups who were there to intentionally start fights. Then the police had a green light to arrest. @misteraven

How to destroy a protest or movement 101. 
 

Anyone remember when that undercover cop got beat up by police in St. Louis during a protest for the murder of an unarmed black man by a policeman who was acquitted? They actually got charged for the abuse, hilarious. 

Edited by abrasivesaint

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6 minutes ago, abrasivesaint said:

How to destroy a protest or movement 101. 
 

Anyone remember when that undercover cop got beat up by police in St. Louis during a protest for the murder of an unarmed black man by a policeman who was acquitted? They actually got charged for the abuse, hilarious. 

https://www.npr.org/2018/11/29/672055192/st-louis-police-officers-indicted-for-beating-an-undercover-colleague

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3 minutes ago, KILZ FILLZ said:

Googling "undercover cops shoot each other" brings up many many articles lol

Might jump down that rabbit hole later haha. 

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