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iloveboxcars

van jones.

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im a big fan of him leaving office but i was wondering how everyone else felt on the topic.

 

 

and that is why i made this thread.

 

please be more specific than i was, im watching ted.com stuff and cant pay too much attention to words.

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The problem here is that nobody politically is willing to support him in his claims, because they are too afraid of the back lash.

 

When odds are if one or two people ended up lining up behind this guy, and stating the facts as to why they feel that way. I'm sure more Americans would have understood and maybe even supported his view.

 

Of course as someone who feels as if an independent investigation is necessary, he shouldn't have had to resign because of that alone.

 

I also know absolutely nothing about this man, besides that he signed an petition and than resigned as too not hurt Obama in the polls.

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hes a racist, if that's what you call it when you hate on white people.

you're a racist cuz you hate black folks, so naturally you assume he is a racist against white folks.

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Fuck Glenn Beck, that lying scumbag. Glenn Beck hates on any black man whos more educated than him. Fact. People KNOW hes full of shit and yet they think all of a sudden hes going to start speaking the truth? Fuck anybody who listens to him. Kill yourself.

 

Van Jones is a great man and one of the only real civil rights and environmental activists in the white house.

 

http://fora.tv/2009/02/02/Van_Jones_Green_New_Deal

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I know im a half a year late on the discussion but seriously, we NEED van jones in office.

 

That dude resigned because his name was on a petition that stated the CIA and the Bush administration allowed 911 to happen. First of all, he's an environmental advisor, so regardless what he believes about 911 it doesnt have an affect on his job or who he is. Secondly, the discussion about the facts surrounding 911 isnt a closed discussion. He should be allowed to say "I don't know what happened, anything's it's possible." That's what that petition was.

 

And what pisses me off about this is that the media are more interested in defending the sanctity of the bush administration than they are about greening the economy. They're in fact willing to disrupt the progress of the environmental council in hopes of ousting a black man from the white house, and dont pretend that this isnt a racial ordeal either. The groups he was involved in that the news is calling "revolutionary" and "communist" were community activist groups in the black community.

 

And the literary works/teaching of Karl Marx arent some fucking blasphemous ramblings that only give power to the likes of Mao, Stalin, and Hitler. American communists have never been traitors to America. They're civil rights activists who want to give aid to poor people. That's it.

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uh, there are direct quotes from van jones saying he was a radical communist and he joined so-and-so group because they shared the same ideals.

 

 

communism is bad, mmmkay.

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You need to know your history a bit better.

 

Communism in america has always been a grassroots movement towards socialization of all races and classes, and had this concept of community been embraced by political officials instead of erradicated in the 50's and into the 00's, you would have a reduction in crime/depression/suicide/drugs by about 90% since all of that is attributed to segregation of race and class.

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im not understanding how thinking communism is a bad idea has anything to do with what history i am familiar with.

 

and that second statement is just ridiculous.

 

just because something has been a grassroots movement for a long time doesnt make it a good idea.

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Everything you know about communism is from reading about its history, or do you just make stuff up?

 

If all you took from what i just typed was "Something thats old and grass roots is good" you read five words of that and quit. The term "grass roots" is meant to mean "originating locally" in contrast to the idea that communism is some international plot to overthrow America and hand it to "pinko commie Russians. "

 

Let me dumb it down for you: Communism is only a word. Words mean different things. Socialism is used to describe totalitarian governments in the Caribbean, and our Fire departments. It doesn't mean the same thing. Militant is used to describe jihadists, but also Chinese students in math class. Communism is used to describe the teachings of karl marx, but also used to describe the end of freedom and liberty. The way American Communists use it, Communism is a term to describe civil activism and integration of communities that have been segregated by race, religion, and class.

 

The need for this integration (and the purpose of American communist groups) comes from a statistical fact that crime and depression are trademarks of the segregation in a capitalistic society. Karl Marx foresaw this and sought to replace capitalism-- NOT DEMOCRACY--with communism. Karl Marx was in fact was trying to restore democracy to the working class.

 

The communist movement in american society predates Leninism and Soviet Russia. Socialist labor parties have been in america since the 1800's. In the 1950's however, the soviets were seen as a threat to democracy. american politics saught to destroy anyone who was a communist, even civil rights activists. That would be like going to war against Iraq and killing all american muslims because they read the same book. Oh wait, some Americans tried to do that.

 

What im trying to say is stringing someone up by their feet because they claim membership with an american communist organization is like stringing you up by your feet because you ride your bicycle to work.

 

 

To tie this all back into the Van Jones discussion. THAT'S what he chastised for being apart of: A communist civil rights activist organization hell bent on taking over the world integrating their primarily black community to solve socioeconomic issues like crime and depression and restoring democracy to the working class.

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you sure do assume a lot. actually i didn't even bother reading passed the second paragraph of that last one because of how you decided to assume since i have a different view of what is good for a country that i am somehow less educated than you are.

 

 

 

i did skim a bit more just now, and you just claimed that some one who wants to drastically change the way our government is run is the same as someone riding their bicycle to work. come on man, i know i was drunk the couple of times that i met you, but you really cant be this retarded.

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Funny, I'm thinking the same about you. I said that claiming affiliation with an american communist regimed civil rights group is just as communist as riding your bicycle. THat may or may not make sense to you based on your own definition of communism.

 

This is getting too crossfirey so i'm going to stop. If you want to have a discussion, read it for what i wrote.

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You need to know your history a bit better.

 

Communism in america has always been a grassroots movement towards socialization of all races and classes, and had this concept of community been embraced by political officials instead of erradicated in the 50's and into the 00's, you would have a reduction in crime/depression/suicide/drugs by about 90% since all of that is attributed to segregation of race and class.

 

black economists walter williams and thomas sowell have demolished your last claim. they have owned it so hard that there is no point in even furthering the discussion on that topic.

 

so, you are one of those guys who thinks stalin and mao were bad, but their ideological basis is sound.

cool. atleast you admit you are a commie or atleast would love to have private property overthrown, use of the total state to achieve total egalitarianism and equality of outcome/performance/result and elimination of classes.

 

how do you propose the communist party/communists/socialists in america will achieve this goal without violence?

 

im all for allowing y'all to do what you want, how you want. set up your classless society all you want. but using a central government to enforce your will on the 300 million people of the US with outright marxists and fascists that have controlled DC since the early 20th century, isnt going over to well with alot of americans that still cling to their liberties that are left.

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Everything you know about communism is from reading about its history, or do you just make stuff up?

 

 

my entire family before my generation grew up in east germany.

 

i have first hand accounts. where is all your information coming from?

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This is getting way too crossfirey for me. You want to put words in my mouth please put a dick in yours.

 

Im not going to sit here and try to convince you that there's a difference between communist dictatorships and social economics. If you get it cool. If not, sucks for you.

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Yeah. The word communism. Oh eets so scawwy. Bicycles and co-ops and the color red. Wait, now its the color green.

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you actually like the thought of enforcing your beliefs on the entire country/world by force and eliminating the liberty of the people.... what is so great and noble about this?

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Are you a mole or do you enjoy using a dictionary with the word "communist" cut and pasted next to the definition of "dictatorship?"

 

What about Black people in american prisons who call themselves communists?

Are they part of a soviet totalitarian regime out to eliminate your freedom?

You think they have plans to overthrow the government,

or are they trying to utilize karl's manifesto as a way to keep civility in the jail and not get buttfucked at night?

Maybe even strengthen community activism in their impoverished black neighborhoods too.

Do they threaten you? They have nothing to DO with you. Unless you're a paranoid honky who fears a racewar.

 

You're regurgitating the same shitty rhetoric politicians were spouting in the 50's while they rounded up every community activist who registered as a communist in America. Think of that, they wanted to take away your freedom so bad they registered themselves as communists in a democratic-republic country. They're really attacking the heart of America with that move. Hahaha. And here's the irony, America locked THEM up; Took away THEIR freedom. Who's the hypocrite?

 

To back this all up to the beginning of this thread, THAT's the communist party Van Jones was in

He was a black man in an Oakland jail surrounded by "Radicals" who weren't militant nearly as much as the black panther party,

They were ENVIRONMENTALISTS who every now and then went up against a police barricade in Oakland.

They wanted to take Black communities off the powergrid.

 

 

So go ahead, keep talking about how ideologies like communism are inherently evil.

Communism is a socialist ideology. What else is socialist:

gas and electric companies, fire departments, public schools etc.

YOU WOULD FUCKING HATE AMERICA WITHOUT SOCIALISM.

ITS WHATS KEEPING THIS SHIT ECONOMY BARELY AFLOAT FOR THE LAST 150 YEARS.

 

On top of that Jones quit communism when he moved into a larger political arena.

You can't call yourself a socialist or a communist or a hippy anymore because of idiots like you who confuse it all with pinko dictatorships. You've gotta call yourself an Environmental economist, or a social activist. It means the same thing. White people dont want to hear these people because they speak for poor people, so they call them COMMUNISTS and everyone gets all up in arms, goes crazy, and good yale educated people like Van Jones get kicked out of office.

 

So before you try calling me or van jones a traitor to america, take a step back and appreciate what you have because of socialists like Karl Marx and his ideologies. And consider that what people in other communities believe in is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.

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Here, you can read about his "Communist" affiliations here.

 

When he was 26 he was involved in STORM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_Together_to_Organize_a_Revolutionary_Movement Who was mostly concerned with preventing state government from outsourcing jobs and demolishing government housing.

 

Then when he was 28 he founded the Ela Baker Center http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ella_Baker_Center_for_Human_Rights Which is responsible for creating tons of "green collar" jobs around Oakland.

 

This is a smart educated motherfucker. This is who you want in office. Just because white america has an issue with the term "communist" shouldnt be reason to make Black america suffer, and ultimately americans of all race and class suffer too.

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socialism has kept the shitty american economy afloat? what planet are you from.

 

last time i checked, environmentalists were calling for elimination of carbon emitting vehicles, controls on private property, insects over humans and even population control. and this is not totalitarianism?

having the govt put a gun to the heads of the 'rich' in order to steal their property to increase the living standard of poor blacks is not coercive? socialism is not coercive?

 

yes people who want to take away my liberty in the name of the collective, protecting the environment, helping the poor and the like ARE A THREAT TO ANY PERSON WHO WANTS TO RETAIN FREEDOM. if your socialist agenda is not coercive why do you feel the need to force everyone to pay for your schemes?

 

yes, the fire department and schools are socialist. who said they weren't? do you think im some sort of neo con?

 

the intellectual tie that binds a soft social democrat and mao tse tung are the exact same. people obama is appointed have openly praised mao. mass murdering mao. a guy who is associated with an ideology that has killed tens of millions of people.

 

you cannot have social equality, egalitarianism, classless societies without smashing all dissent. why wont you answer this question?

or are you really a non coercive socialist that will leave me the fuck alone if i want to own enough guns to arm 20K regular army troops, do whatever i want to with my land, not pay taxes or use your 'socialist' services that are keeping this 'shitty economy' afloat? will you leave me alone and out of all your schemes so long as i commit no violence against anyone?

i highly doubt it. socialists cannot leave freedom lovers alone. they continually seek to regulate and run their lives. it is the mark of a free society where people can advocate and practice socialism privately, but if you practice capitalism and freedom in a socialist society you end up being an enemy of the state and thrown in a gulag.

the utopia of socialism cannot be had without violence and the use of violence to enforce it.

 

consider what i have because of karl marx? are you actually serious or just trolling?

 

you are right, it doesnt matter what people think. it matters what y'all are trying to do to me. regulate me, tax me, conscript me, send me to war, and infringe upon my natural liberties

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