Pet Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/115736 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo-f Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 That is a tough call. My first reaction to cameras in private homes is wrong wrong wrong and there needs to be something done to stop this. But.... I grew up in an area where there were some heroine issues and I used to see it every day on the trains. I had to wake one woman up who was passing out on top of her baby. I've seen how these kids are fucked from the start or they actually die from neglect, AIDS, bashing, abuse or they get to 14 and die in a stolen car or OD themselves. So I really don't know how to react to something like this. Of course the govt should not have the power to monitor you in your own private space, that's a given. But how else are you going to try and make sure these kids at least get meals at night and aren't living in a house with AIDS needles and being sold as prostitutes to pedos? Shit like that does happen. I'm not interested in the argument of "can't let them because where will it stop?" because that is just guessing and imagining the worst with no actual basis to it. But, if you refuse to agree that this might be a solution for the worst of the worst families (I'm thinking crack, heroine, violence, etc) what else can be done to stop these kids ending up fucked through no fault of their own? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decyferon Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 I agree with you christo. I think that if this were implemented then it would need to be in the worse case scenario and only once authorised in court as a means of solutions to poor upbringing for children/families in bad environments, there should be a distinct movement away from this type of scheme as a policing issue, if the police want to be surveiling someone let them do it on their own time/money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnneh7 Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 im subbed to this too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twonpoo Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 no good. The thing is is that its an excuse to do things that are taking your rights away. the same thing 9-11 made it ok to invade Iraq for no reason. It takes a "problem" and them willingly the public backs something they wpuld have never backed normally. Hate to sound like a conspiracy nut, but this is insane, what does this mean? Cameras in the bathroom and cameras in the parents bedroom? No sex for mom and dad? and if theres no cameras in the bathroom, are you saying you cant do drugs in the bathroom? Another issue is that drug addiction isnt something some people want to be part of, its a disease. And just cuz you have cameras on you dont mean the addiction goes away, just means youll go do drugs at your boys crib, hence another flaw in the project. but it dont matter, its already going from 2,000 - up to 20,000. Lets be serious, we're talking abut cameras inside peoples private homes. cameras on the streets dont stop crimes, its makes crimes happen 20 feet to the left of the camera. Its all horse shit and people are willingly approving of it, thats the sad part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo-f Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Who said anything about stopping them from taking drugs? It's about children being fed, not being bashed or being neglected. It's a protective device for children, not a preventative device for adults. Don't you think they would have thought of that before??!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decyferon Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 no good. The thing is is that its an excuse to do things that are taking your rights away. the same thing 9-11 made it ok to invade Iraq for no reason. It takes a "problem" and them willingly the public backs something they wpuld have never backed normally. Hate to sound like a conspiracy nut, but this is insane, what does this mean? Cameras in the bathroom and cameras in the parents bedroom? No sex for mom and dad? and if theres no cameras in the bathroom, are you saying you cant do drugs in the bathroom? Another issue is that drug addiction isnt something some people want to be part of, its a disease. And just cuz you have cameras on you dont mean the addiction goes away, just means youll go do drugs at your boys crib, hence another flaw in the project. but it dont matter, its already going from 2,000 - up to 20,000. Lets be serious, we're talking abut cameras inside peoples private homes. cameras on the streets dont stop crimes, its makes crimes happen 20 feet to the left of the camera. Its all horse shit and people are willingly approving of it, thats the sad part. cameras in the streets aren't meant as preventative, OK if the CCTV operator happens to be waching a crime happen they will inform the police but they are mainly used to collect evidence to aide a prosecution once the person has been arrested or to aide with an identification The whole point of these cameras in the home is, as stated before, to protect children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clownshoes Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 the thought of a government camera in a private home is absolutely insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decyferon Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 then maybe people should be decent parents, feed their kids, don't abuse or beat their kids and then no one would have to worry about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clownshoes Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 lol.. the govenment cant make people raise their children "correctly" . at least not in my city.. they had quite a few deaths while in direct care of someones child. look past the children issue too.. where would a program like this stop or how could it be adopted by other governmental agencies? im done.. i never come in this crossfire shit.. i dont have the energy to waste on arguments. plus my keyboard is broke and it takes waaay to long to type. no hate..i just dont agree . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decyferon Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Oh I don't agree with the government telling you how to raise your child, but there are things that are a given, you feed your child, you don't abuse or beat your child, you give your child an education, you don't put your child in danger. If there are suspicions but not enough evidence it could be a good deterant for the bad parents to change their ways, or to offer a guidnace and advice to the parent, and in the worse case scenario it would give social services the evidence to take the child away from the danger! Looking past the child issue then there is no reason for cameras in the home in my opinion. If police are suspecting a drug dealer/supplier then they have their own means of monitoring this. I would ONLY back the proposal if it were to protect vunerable children - when kids are involved I'm all for as much protection for the child as possible. And I do know that being raised in a care home/Foster care isn't always best but why leave a child in danger if it's parents aren't prepared to be parents to the child. I am not someone that advocates a controlling government but sometimes I have to put a small bit of trust in them when it has to do with vunerable people, but again if I lived in the US my opinion would be completely different due to the completely untrustworthy ethics of the US government (whether it is republican or democrat) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UPS! Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 The goverment just isnt a good manager and like others have said this will turn into some post 9/11 conspiracy shit. If johnny tells his counciler that his dad gave him a spanking or he comes to school with his stomach growling the feds are ganna start posting up cameras as an excuse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UPS! Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Also am I the only one that finds it sad that theres such a problem with bad parents that society needs to babysit the adults to make sure they take care of their kids? People like that needa go son, no joke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Posted August 29, 2009 Author Share Posted August 29, 2009 ^^nothing comes without a reason... There has to be a problem if the society needs to take such rather extreme steps. Sure there have been bad parents all the time throughout history, but now, as it is possible they fight the problem. A problem of the Western culture as much as I can say - if there are no cameras and security measures you can be sure someone will steal something from a shop. And if someone starts yelling "the government does not trust the people" then why should it? Even if the majority, the good people may be trusted the minority, troublecausers still cause trouble... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo-f Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 The goverment just isnt a good manager and like others have said this will turn into some post 9/11 conspiracy shit. If johnny tells his counciler that his dad gave him a spanking or he comes to school with his stomach growling the feds are ganna start posting up cameras as an excuse Sorry to sound like a prick, mate but that is just stupid. tHe government doesn't want to spend money needlessly or waste thier time on micro management. They want a big budget surplus that they can roll out at election time and look for faults and splits in the opposition that they can needle away at. Shit like this is an unwanted distraction to political parties. It risks party divisions and electoral backlash. To think that the Gov't is so stupid as to jump down the throat of anyone who makes a claim of hunger or a smack on the bum without investigation and judicial oversight is to completely fail in understanding how things work. Why the fuck would they want to do this? It creates expenditure and takes away from their primary goal of winning the next election (and raising pay entitlements, superannuation increases, cushy private sector jobs, etc.). What the fuck do the "feds" gain out of putting cameras in homes? The truth is that most feds do their utmost to preserve their salaries, justify positions and not risk the spotlight being shone on themselves. Even if the "feds" had a camera in every house, how would they actually benefit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decyferon Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Also am I the only one that finds it sad that theres such a problem with bad parents that society needs to babysit the adults to make sure they take care of their kids? People like that needa go son, no joke Man I agree completely, I hate the fact that it has ocme to this with some parents, I get so angry on a regular basis just seeing how shit some parents are with their kids, whether it is smacking them for no reason or just shouting and swearing at them for the mildest infraction, basically being out of order to the child, and that is the mild stuff, I never know what might happen behind closed doors, I know I sound quite passionate about this but it is only because I havea child myself sometimes I think you should get a license to have kids - some people just have them to get their benefits cheques bigger and treat the kids like shit! but then obviously the liberty/freedom aspect of being granted the right to have a child is very very dodgy and owuld go against my beliefs, but just sometimes I think it would be a good idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e2ekillr Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 cameras cannot prevent crime. people who say otherwise are fucking stupid. or work for the gov. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e2ekillr Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Who said anything about stopping them from taking drugs? It's about children being fed, not being bashed or being neglected. It's a protective device for children, not a preventative device for adults. Don't you think they would have thought of that before??!! "protective device for children". nice. pretty creative. how about that one: "surveillance device for problematic citizens" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo-f Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Yes yes, they all want to control you, mate. That's what they want to do, they sit up late at night scheming and planning, laughing like "Mwuhahahaha" and feasting on puppies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decyferon Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I know governments aren't trustworthy but sometimes I come into Crossfire and people seem to believe that the government is actively plotting against everyone of their citizens and wants to crush them into some slave workforce - it gets a bit much sometimes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e2ekillr Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Yes yes, they all want to control you, mate. this applies pretty much to every active politician left/right, except the liberals. next there are certain NGOs and industry pressure groups who have interests in that department. and finally, its the interior ministers (controls usually various intelligence agencies) job to maintain domestic security. his duties include fighting against OC, terrorism and riot prevention/repression so its natural for him to call for more sophisticated surveillance devices, broader authority to act, stricter laws and such on a daily basis. no tinfoil/ct involved here, mate. this is how it works since thousands of years. they sit up late at night scheming and planning, for example these 2 get paid to do, among other things, exactly that. though its called a little bit different than you liked to put it. namely "tactics and strategy" or just "politics"... ps i'm sure i'm telling you no news, christo... ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UPS! Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Man I agree completely, I hate the fact that it has ocme to this with some parents, I get so angry on a regular basis just seeing how shit some parents are with their kids, whether it is smacking them for no reason or just shouting and swearing at them for the mildest infraction, basically being out of order to the child, and that is the mild stuff, I never know what might happen behind closed doors, I know I sound quite passionate about this but it is only because I havea child myself sometimes I think you should get a license to have kids - some people just have them to get their benefits cheques bigger and treat the kids like shit! but then obviously the liberty/freedom aspect of being granted the right to have a child is very very dodgy and owuld go against my beliefs, but just sometimes I think it would be a good idea This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UPS! Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Sorry to sound like a prick, mate but that is just stupid. tHe government doesn't want to spend money needlessly or waste thier time on micro management. They want a big budget surplus that they can roll out at election time and look for faults and splits in the opposition that they can needle away at. Shit like this is an unwanted distraction to political parties. It risks party divisions and electoral backlash. To think that the Gov't is so stupid as to jump down the throat of anyone who makes a claim of hunger or a smack on the bum without investigation and judicial oversight is to completely fail in understanding how things work. Why the fuck would they want to do this? It creates expenditure and takes away from their primary goal of winning the next election (and raising pay entitlements, superannuation increases, cushy private sector jobs, etc.). What the fuck do the "feds" gain out of putting cameras in homes? The truth is that most feds do their utmost to preserve their salaries, justify positions and not risk the spotlight being shone on themselves. Even if the "feds" had a camera in every house, how would they actually benefit? Agree to Disagree about it being a stupid statement. And Its obvious we have diffrent views on goverment, its goals, and how and who runs it Call me a Tin foil hat wearing hippy if you feel that way, but personally I dont see party lines but more of a Faction between two groups who put on a show but behind closed doors secretly are on the same side. I believe that basically the goverment is one party, and one body. As for the benefits of the feds putting cameras in every home, it gives them power. It makes them feared and makes people watch their shit, and that feeling cant be traded for any amount of money to anyone who wishes to retain that power. Who needs money when you got a crippled society of pussies? I believe its like everything else man, Its like when you have any encounter with the cops they automatically take down all of your information on the spot, take photos, etc. Its to get us all on the system, becuse once your in the system theyve got you Now im not a crazy conspiracist NWO mother fucker dont get me wrong, Im not saying the goverments planning to install marshall law and rule us all under one goverment But simply put, I believe our nation is run by the elite, and they will do whatever it takes to keep it that way. And they have fuck you money, so they dont need elections becuse they can pick the winners or manipulate them regardless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twonpoo Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 still dont agrree with this b.s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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