El Mamerro Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 My postulate is that if you gave everybody a gun, and taught them to respect its power, you would see less crime and people would generally be happier. People need a way to protect themselves. My postulate is that if you gave everybody a gun, people would be more wary and distrustful of each other and therefore we would be unhappier. Even if I have the means to kill you, the fact that you can so easily kill me before I am able to defend myself (and vice versa) will create negative pressure in the way we associate with each other. This is sometimes referred to as "politeness", but it's a respect charged with antagonistic tension. Happiness will not come forth from that. On the other hand maybe we'll all kill ourselves and each other. But didn't we all used to own swords?... same thing. Personal protection. Swords don't allow the level of disconnect and distance that guns do. It's relatively simple to defend yourself against a sword attack, since the attacker makes himself vulnerable by proximity. When it becomes too easy and risk-free for people to kill each other (as it begins to happen with guns), you're gonna see a prevalence towards it being used more often than a sword would be. We aren't talking about arming everyone. I know it's not the main point, but the everyone-armed scenario keeps being offered as a pro-gun argument, as in everyone armed > everyone unarmed. Now how American culture contributes or takes away from any of this is another discussion, because that bleeds into many other area's besides gun control. Even if it does bleed to other areas, it doesn't make it any less central to the issue. It's the main thing that needs to be addressed and solved if you wish to eliminate the hostility towards guns that leads to restrictive legislation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shai Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Education like I always say is the key. If a single person can be educated in behaving properly with a firearm, in public and private use. Most people should be capable of doing the same thing Now how American culture contributes or takes away from any of this is another discussion, because that bleeds into many other area's besides gun control. That's why things like addiction and teenage pregnancy/STDs are so prevalent. Education currently takes the stance of "Don't do this at all or you're morally corrupt" on these matters, which anyone who went through adolescence will tell you is exactly the wrong message to send. There should be education that informs kids of the risks and consequences of their actions without judgment. Some kids deliberately do things that they have been told not to do because they want to feel like they're getting away with something...whether it's sex, drugs, or being in a gang and packing a gun. Unfortunately, education still relies on the "Scarlet Letter"/carrot and stick principle in an attempt to get kids to toe the line, and it's not working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decyferon Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Decy--Have you ever shot a gun? yes I have, it was fun although highly dangerous as was young and irresponsible (was when I was a teenager, we 'borrowed' a sawn off shotgun from a friends dad) I would love to go to a shooting range and give a variety of weapons a go, I am not against guns per se, I tend to subscribe to Mams viewpoint that he made a hell of a lot better than I have been able to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonsOfSulkendastron Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 ive only been to england a few times, and there always seemed to be alot of shooting/guns magazines at book stores. Are there alot of shooters/ranges to shoot at? Are citizens able to go rent-and-shoot or anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decyferon Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 They aren't in every town or anything like that but there are avid shooters here, it is look upon as more of a sport or pasttime. I think people can go and rent and shoot, to be honest I have not looked into it as money is always needed for other things, there was a gun shop not far from where I grew up. actually just did a quick search and yea there are clubs that you can rent, not public ranges but places you join http://www.fordranges.co.uk/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 from what i understand... if i am remembering right...you are only allowed to 'own' a 'sporting' gun such as a shotgun and they must be kept locked at the govt approved sporting club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decyferon Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 I'm not 100% sure, I know you can't buy things like you can in the U.S. I just tried having a look and unsurprisingly enough it was very hard to find. I did find some information on gun ownership, it didn't mention anything about storing weapons at home, I seem to remember (if memory serves me right) that you can with license/forms whatever you need you can have shotguns at home in a locked secure place, but that may be different now, i'm not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 speaking off the top of my head, not in any way certain but I'm pretty sure Britons are fairly unregulated when it comes to 'long guns'. So called 'assault rifles' were squished under a 'capacity' clause but we had shotguns galore when I was in Ireland. I think it's pretty much hand guns and high capacity rifles that are looked at hard... keep in mind it was '89 when I was over there shooting and the IRA was still a very real thing, but yeah... there's actually a few provisions in UK law that exempts handguns so, even though they claim to be "free" there's actually a bunch running around, and from what I've heard since, it's like a heyday with the automatics coming across the channel along w/ the drug trade. England is the current home of unregulated gun trade, just like how America is with the dope. *I mean besides Mexico, or for that matter, South America... and Africa, and the Middle East, and the East... but apart from them it's all England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 ^^^ i think the 'sporting guns' law i was talking about was passed in direct response to the IRA. im still pretty sure the long guns must be kept at a regulated sporting 'club.' which is why the IRA was training in africa and places like that. then going back to ireland to raise hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILOTSMYBRAIN Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 That's why things like addiction and teenage pregnancy/STDs are so prevalent. Education currently takes the stance of "Don't do this at all or you're morally corrupt" on these matters, which anyone who went through adolescence will tell you is exactly the wrong message to send. There should be education that informs kids of the risks and consequences of their actions without judgment. Some kids deliberately do things that they have been told not to do because they want to feel like they're getting away with something...whether it's sex, drugs, or being in a gang and packing a gun. Unfortunately, education still relies on the "Scarlet Letter"/carrot and stick principle in an attempt to get kids to toe the line, and it's not working. This is extremely relevant. Instead of properly teaching children or even adults for that matter how to use a gun, and how to be safe around weapons. It is simply put off limits. Now I know this is a graffiti forum so I am going to assume most of you have similar traits to me. For a very long time something being off limits was basically an invitation for me to get involved. It didn't happen with me with weapons, but in other area's that you have mentioned. The TRUTH has to be taught. Living in a politically correct society doesn't work. Guns exist. People are going to be into situations where they are around, and if they don't know how to properly behave, accidents will happen. Or even horrible decisions that lead to the loss of life, destruction of property etc and etc.. I also agree that our culture here in America is a big problem. I'll even attribute that to my favorite music/culture for the last 10 years of my life. Hip Hop. I believe that everyone should be held accountable for their own actions, however you can't deny the affect a message can have when you hear it constantly. Kill people, sell drugs, pimp women, repeat. It sells a life of irresponsibility. Not to mention the constant violence you see on TV and the movies. Not even just fictional stuff. Like I said though that contribute to A LOT of things. Teen pregnancy, drug use, violence, education. Unfortunately for a lot of people they don't figure it out till it is too late. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILOTSMYBRAIN Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Story CNN did on the Michigan Militia. Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILOTSMYBRAIN Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 http://www.thisissurreytoday.co.uk/news/Ex-soldier-faces-jail-handing-gun/article-1509082-detail/article.html This is pretty crazy... Decyferon, I'd check that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decyferon Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 ^^^ Jesus Christ that is just crazy, that jury must have been filled with idiots, surely there is no problem with him handling it to hand it in, especially considering he was a soldier (or was) and would know how to handle guns. Sometimes the law is ridiculous, I would have let him off and fined the police for wasting court time if I were the judge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsmbfan Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 i still say we all go back to swords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonsOfSulkendastron Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 nah man. rocks. or things off the streets, like bottles and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irrannich Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 For you anti gun folk The anti-gun media is going to have trouble milking this one. People expect soldiers to have guns. We have been told for years that: "Only the police and military should have guns." This guy was a major, an authority figure in the minds of most, who was wearing the official uniform of the federal governments Army when he committed the act. He was on a military base supposedly under control of the Army. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.hopeless. Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 i really think that people should have to go through training to use a gun.kinda like a drivers license. and everyone has to get one and renew it every once in a while to own or operate a gun.unless of course you have some one who already knows how to use one with you.kinda like driving cars.i dont care WHAT guns you can get i just dont like the idea of some jackass who doesnt know what he's doing to be owning a gun.idk if there is already a law about like this i assume there is.but if not we need one.i love guns.but i dont like seeing people injure themselves or others becuase they didnt know what the hell they were doing.will it stop people from using firearms illegally? hell no but i think it would help bring down the accidental deaths involved with firearms. also the gun license you get has to go with the gun your gonna buy.so if your getting an Ak or something along those lines you would need a new license to operate that one and another to operate a pistol or something.again i dont know if there are laws like this in place,im pretty sure they are but not everywhere.only in certain states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.hopeless. Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 i wanna start a talk on assault weapons but i dont know where to begin. someone say something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 umm... alright. buy one. also to comment your silly notion that everyone who owns a gun must be properly licensed and professionally trained (by someone the govt approves)in order to own a gun to prevent accidental deaths... i dont think this would solve anything. ever seen the video of the cop who is 'trained' to teach firearms (apparently... as he was giving a lecture to school kids) safety and was saying how he was the only properly trained person in the room that could handle a firearm and he proceeded to shoot his self in the leg with his sidearm? accidents happen. also if people want to kill themselves, they will. 40K people die on the roads each year, and we have cops to enforce traffic law and license requirements to drive. to my knowledge there is no law requiring citizens to be trained by certain certified agencies/firearms schools to own a gun. there IS in many states that have 'shall issue' concealed carry laws that you must attend an 8 hour pistol class in order to obtain a permit to carry concealed. pre requisites and regulations are not compatible with 'rights.' you either have the right or you dont. no one can infringe on it. what next... mandatory child/parenting classes... because after all you might feed your kid lye instead of milk one day. govt licensing is not compatible with any right whatsoever. none of my comments on the proper training of firearms should be construed that i am against training. i am 100% in favor of training, however it should NOT be a requirement to practice a RIGHT that you already have. i do not favor putting people in jail if they dont have proper 'papers' for this requirement you propose. that being said, i think everyone should go to a place like thunder ranch or front sight. a gun is useless unless you know how to use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.hopeless. Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 yeah i get what your saying..whatever.ive been up for two days haha..not really an excuse i just really wish i could sleep for more than 2 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted December 23, 2009 Author Share Posted December 23, 2009 i dont think this would solve anything. ever seen the video of the cop who is 'trained' to teach firearms (apparently... as he was giving a lecture to school kids) safety and was saying how he was the only properly trained person in the room that could handle a firearm and he proceeded to shoot his self in the leg with his sidearm? I love that video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsmbfan Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 casek, brah, we need your interweb magics. some troll keeps harrassing me after i called him stupid (haha, that sounded dumb). somebody in channel 0 requested that we rape his mom and get pictures on facebook STAT. much obliged sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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