angelofdeath Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 sure there is. is there a need to speak freely or to dress however you want? is there not a day to day need for freedom of religion? i dont think you understand the law. there are numerous states that allow open carry of guns without a permit of any kind. open carry is different than concealed carry, where only one state allows permitless concealed carry. they are not doing there job, they are harassing a citizen who hasnt broken the law. its no different than walking up to a 22 year old black or latino male that is 5'10" and heckling him because statistically they are more likely to murder or rape someone than any other type of person. the mere act of gun possession is not a crime. why cant i go and heckle cops for open carrying firearms? do cops also have to check on the legality of the signs that protesters march with ? just for their own safety. wouldnt want any contraband stolen cardboard to be used to make that sign. and that stake or pole the sign is attached to... shit it could kill someone. when a cop confronts and detains, or arresting a person for open carrying a firearm where it is LEGAL, they are harassing the public not doing their job. they are supposed to be protecting this persons rights, not trampling on them by asking stupid questions and detaining him when he has broken no law or threatened anyone. if there is no law against it, how can a law be broken, and therefore how can one be detained or arrested for not breaking a law? if by 'legal' gun you are referring to gun registration, i can assure you states that have open carry do not have gun registration. there is no such thing as a 'legal' or 'illegal' gun unless you want to talk about machine guns, or deal with the issue of a felon having a gun, etc. there are a few states that have people on a day to day basis open carrying guns. take the black guy in arizona carrying the ar15. perfectly legal and the police didnt heckle him, they told public it was the guy's right. end of story. this is the way law enforcement is supposed to act. there are many open carry 'events' that are put together to inform the public of this lost or dying right. for fucks sake... if you cant carry a gun, then what good will it do you if you need to defend your self? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILOTSMYBRAIN Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 I'm glad the police are hassling someone who is walking around with a gun on display, they are doing their job, how do they know without questioning the person if the gun is legal or not. I would rather they presume it isn't legal and they need to question the legality of the weapon than to assume they have an open carry permit. If it is a legal weapon and the person has nothing to hide then they should have no problem answering the few enquiries the police have. If you want the right to walk around displaying a gun then you better have to put up with people questioning you if it is legal or not, because face it you don't live in the wild west anymore there is really no reason to walk around with a gun on display unless you want to look like a mild psychopath, there is just no need for it on a day to day basis Just want to get the record straight. You are basically down for any authority figure to assume you are GUILTY before INNOCENT? And walking around with a gun is a sign of being a mild psychopath? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decyferon Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 No but I don't want people walking around with guns out in the open without anyone questioning the legality of the situation. How am I to know that the person carrying a gun is legally carrying it, do they need a badge on display or some shit to show they have an open carry permit and they aren't just some idiot walking around with a gun in a public space. I don't believe that anyone should just be able to walk around with a gun without expecting to be questioned if they have a valid permit, If I was driving a car and got stopped I would be asked if I have a valid license there is no difference to the 2 situations. As for in those states where there is no legal or illegal guns because of gun registration then that is just another of those bizarre fucked up things that happens in America. AOD- I agree with you the cop shouldn't be able to arrest someone once they have established they have an open carry permit -where we disagree is that I believe the cops should have the right to establish if you have the permit, because if you don't you are illegally carrying a gun in public and why would you do that? I wouldn't want to live somewhere where just because people can have an open carry permit then means that anyone can wander around with a gun in public without anyone questioning the situation. I know you all love your guns but frankly it amazes me to how blind you seem to be about them. The reason America has so many petty criminals with guns? Because you have so many legal guns, the market is flooded with weapons that MAKE them easy accessable to the criminals. They can steal them, plain out right buy them or just take them, then you go on about the founding fathers and some rubbish that took place 200 odd years ago and you cling to it like a chrisitian does to a bible. I am pretty sure that the founding fathers didn't mean for people to be walking around shooting each other up when they put the bearing arms part in the constitution. Face it none of you gun owners are fighting any tyranny of government with your weapons. As for the walking around with a gun in public, then yea I would think there was something wrong in your head, just pointless, your either some ridiculously paranoid person, or someone with something to hide, basically I wouldn't trust you for shit, and I don't assume guilt before innocence. But if you are carrying a gun in public then you either are or are not breaking the law. If your in a public place then public safety comes before your right to legally carry a gun and the police are right to stop you and find out if your legally entitled to carry the gun as public safety could be an issue if you don't have a permit. You want the right, deal with the hassles. None of your arguements have so far proven to me that gun ownership is a good thing, in fact it just goes to show me how bad an idea it is, why don't people wake up and realise that the gun crime in america is because of your legal guns, you say well criminals will have guns because they are criminals, but that isn't the case your criminals have guns because they are so readily available and they can just take them. A society without guns is better than one with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 No but I don't want people walking around with guns out in the open without anyone questioning the legality of the situation. How am I to know that the person carrying a gun is legally carrying it, do they need a badge on display or some shit to show they have an open carry permit and they aren't just some idiot walking around with a gun in a public space. I don't believe that anyone should just be able to walk around with a gun without expecting to be questioned if they have a valid permit, If I was driving a car and got stopped I would be asked if I have a valid license there is no difference to the 2 situations. Decyferon, The part you are missing in this entire post, as i tried to explain, in 26 US states, open carry of firearms, is legal. there is no permit to obtain to open carry. there is only 1 US state that allows concealed carry without a permit. all other states require a permit to carry a firearm concealed. do you know the difference between having a firearm concealed and carried in the open? its no different than putting a sign in your front yard or going to whatever church you want. there is no permission process. at all. there is no 'checking to see if this is legal.' it is 100% legal. the only police confrontation is just blatant harassment unless they can articulate reasonable suspicion that you have been involved in an actual crime for detention or have probable cause for arrest. the mere act of open carrying a firearm, as i have already said, is legal. there is no reason to stop the open carrying guy any more than there is a reason to stop all males because they are equipped to be rapists, all women because they are equipped to be prostitutes or chuck norris because he can kill with his martial arts trained bare hands. it is already well established that you are hoplophobic and you do not think any citizen is capable of defending their own self or property. this is not the issue. the issue is, in 26 open carry states, where carrying a firearm without a permit is legal, why are these people being heckled for doing something that is perfectly legal and 100% within their rights? this was brought up as it is nothing more than an extension of the conversation that was going on about how cops are pro gun, when in reality they are not, because very districts across the country dont get alarmed and shaken up about open carry by 'citizens.' (more properly, subjects) As for in those states where there is no legal or illegal guns because of gun registration then that is just another of those bizarre fucked up things that happens in America. i guess that you do not know that all gun confiscations in history began with just a sensible registration measure. in 1935 hitler instituted it. its nice to know that you support gun registration and confiscation, the exact same policies that helped lead the defenseless jews to the boxcars bound for the 'work camps.' i would much rather of given these people a fighting chance to shoot these aggressors. to practice with Alexander Solzhenitsyn talked about what should of been done. that whenever a guard came around they would be killed. i would much rather support the gun wielding patriots in the warsaw ghetto that were attempting to defend themselves from the nazi wehrmacht with 'illegal military assault weapons' than to parade around spouting off nonsense about how only criminals have guns and you are a paranoid psychopath if you own a gun let alone carry it. AOD- I agree with you the cop shouldn't be able to arrest someone once they have established they have an open carry permit -where we disagree is that I believe the cops should have the right to establish if you have the permit, because if you don't you are illegally carrying a gun in public and why would you do that? I wouldn't want to live somewhere where just because people can have an open carry permit then means that anyone can wander around with a gun in public without anyone questioning the situation. i think you are just so far down the road to serfdom that you do not realize that i am talking about open carry, that does not require a permit in 26 states. hopefully i have fully explained the laws above. there is no 'permit' to check in 26 states. the practice of open carrying a firearm is fairly uncommon in most of the US. while im not defending the actual practice of open carry on strategic grounds, i am defending it on a 'you have the right' to do it grounds. open carry isnt the best way to carry a firearm unless you are well trained in firearm retention. most people that practice open carry do so in a group of 2 or 3. open carry also can put you at a disadvantage, as the criminals already see what you have and could act accordingly. say, shooting you in the chest before threatening to rob you. however, just like police wearing guns is a deterrent so is a citizen wearing a firearm. I know you all love your guns but frankly it amazes me to how blind you seem to be about them. The reason America has so many petty criminals with guns? Because you have so many legal guns, the market is flooded with weapons that MAKE them easy accessable to the criminals. They can steal them, plain out right buy them or just take them, then you go on about the founding fathers and some rubbish that took place 200 odd years ago and you cling to it like a chrisitian does to a bible. I am pretty sure that the founding fathers didn't mean for people to be walking around shooting each other up when they put the bearing arms part in the constitution. you seem to have a very distorted view of causes. you firmly believe that guns make people act a certain way, namely that whenever a person sees a gun they want to go out and shoot someone. you believe guns kill people. i believe people kill people. if guns kill people... then how come i cant use this defense: i am arrested for murder. i say... 'sir, you are holding the wrong person, i did not kill this person, it was the bullet. look! it is quite obvious. i was standing right here and the bullet just struck that person down!' personally, in this discussion, i could care less about the second amendment. my right to defend myself by whatever means necessary is a natural right and is not granted by any second amendment. if the constitution was never written, everyone in the world would still have the right to bear arms. you have the right to bear arms. you do not want to exercise this right. this is totally fine. no one is forcing you. as the pro choicers say.... if you dont want one, dont have one. well, if you dont want a gun, down own one. its that simple. you punish the criminal, not the tool used to commit the crime. if we are to ban tools used to commit crimes we would have to ban ropes, hammers, axes, knives, forks, cars, scissors, pitchforks, shovels, bare hands, feet, wrenches, ice picks. you know the guy who robs a store with just his finger stuck in his jacket pocket, yup, have to ban fingers too. Face it none of you gun owners are fighting any tyranny of government with your weapons. this is just hilarious to me. as that is what happened in 1775-1783 when we kicked the british out of the US. this is what the rag tag bunch of arabs are doing in iraq while they are holding the largest army in the world at bay with a few thousand men. As for the walking around with a gun in public, then yea I would think there was something wrong in your head, just pointless, your either some ridiculously paranoid person, or someone with something to hide, basically I wouldn't trust you for shit, and I don't assume guilt before innocence. But if you are carrying a gun in public then you either are or are not breaking the law. If your in a public place then public safety comes before your right to legally carry a gun and the police are right to stop you and find out if your legally entitled to carry the gun as public safety could be an issue if you don't have a permit. prediction: once you read my explanation of open carry laws in 26 of the US states, your argument will change from 'the police are just doing their job to make sure the gun is legal' to 'well, the police should just be arresting these people because they are paranoid nuts with something to hide. but i dont assume guilt before innocence.' its always funny to me. liberals are pretty good on civil liberty except when it comes to guns. You want the right, deal with the hassles. None of your arguements have so far proven to me that gun ownership is a good thing, in fact it just goes to show me how bad an idea it is, why don't people wake up and realise that the gun crime in america is because of your legal guns, you say well criminals will have guns because they are criminals, but that isn't the case your criminals have guns because they are so readily available and they can just take them. A society without guns is better than one with them. governments were supposedly instituted among men to protect our rights, here in the US. not to trample on our rights. if we have a 'right' to open carry a gun, as there is a legal right to open carry without a permit in 26 states, why are we being hassled for doing so? atleast you are honest. despite all your rhetoric about 'illegal' and 'legal' guns and possession and carrying, you really just want all guns confiscated and guns to not exist in society. how in the hell do you propose to do this? im a realist. there are guns in the world. you cannot take them away. gun control laws only disarm the victims, they do not disarm the criminals. i will be holding on to mine. the main difference between a free man and a slave is the right to own a firearm. its good to know that you are against allowing the jewish peoples of europe who suffered under a genocidally bent dictator the right to defend themselves. its good to know you are against peasants in russia being thrown into work camps dont have the right to defend themselves. its good to know that you do not believe you should be able to own a firearm to shoot and kill the guy who is raping your wife at gun point in the other room while your children watch. 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Decyferon Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Oh I am a realist AOD, like I have said before there is no way that guns will be taken away, logistically it just isn't possible. As for the open permit, well ok if anyone can wander around in those states just carrying a gun then that, to me, just seems crazy. Like I have said before, there are lots of responsible gun owners, but also lots of very irresponsible gun owners, to think that they can walk around unquestioned in a public space carrying a gun is madness. OK there are individual rights, what about the rights of everyone to feel secure without people openly carrying guns, there is a flip side to every arguement. My reasoning behind the police questioning people was because it is the police's job to protect the public, if someone is wandering around with a gun that person may be a threat to the public, and in my eyes should be questioned on the legality of the gun. I'm sure that in those states with open permits that there are still rules to people not having certain guns or some kind of safety barrier. This is also my view on government, they do stand for the individual but also need to stand for society in general. Ideally, I would like guns not to exist in the general populace, but it won't happen, I am not blind to the fact, but this is a message board where we express out personal views this is mine. I can see why the right to bear arms was given but I also see the world has changed a lot since this right was put to paper. A slave is not someone who doesn't have a gun, that is rubbish, I am not a slave and I do not own a gun. You use some far out examples, like the rape scenario, well to be honest in the UK if someoen breaks into your house there is a very very large chance they will NOT have a gun, I could defend myself suitably with a number of things I have to hand. If I lived in the US I would have to have a gun because so many criminals have easy access to them that the most petty of crimes now involve firearms, such as muggings or burglary. To say I don't believe a person is capable of defending themselves or their property is stupid, I have said before that I know the gun situation in america is what it is and I would own one in the US, I am just saying that the proliferation of guns in society is more a negative than a positive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 As for the open permit, well ok if anyone can wander around in those states just carrying a gun then that, to me, just seems crazy. Like I have said before, there are lots of responsible gun owners, but also lots of very irresponsible gun owners, to think that they can walk around unquestioned in a public space carrying a gun is madness. OK there are individual rights, what about the rights of everyone to feel secure without people openly carrying guns, there is a flip side to every arguement. My reasoning behind the police questioning people was because it is the police's job to protect the public, if someone is wandering around with a gun that person may be a threat to the public, and in my eyes should be questioned on the legality of the gun. I'm sure that in those states with open permits that there are still rules to people not having certain guns or some kind of safety barrier. This is also my view on government, they do stand for the individual but also need to stand for society in general. there is no right to feel secure. no such critter. what if a black person is intimidated by the mere fact a white person lives next door? tough shit. getting into technicalities... the issue is really carrying a gun on public property. if you are 1000 feet of a school... illegal. no guns allowed due to clintons' school gun ban. no guns in post offices. no guns allowed on private property, such as stores that have 'no gun' signs. most states restrict guns on property that serves alcohol. if a person has a right to protest on public property a person should have a right to carry on public property as it is essentially the same right. gun ownership just like protest is not a crime. this all gets cloudy because of the public property. which is actually common ownership by all taxpayers with everyones ability to use such property but it is controlled by the government. so when you have a situation like this, with all the diverse people in america you are going to have disagreements about what can and cannot be done on said property. in the angelofdeath free society, property owners would decide whether firearms are allowed or not. of course in the shopping mall that forbids firearms, this is where all the robberies and murders would happen. it is interesting to note that in places like schools and post offices... well. no need to mention what happens in those places, but what the hell. people going postal and mass murders of school children without proper armed guardians on the property. A slave is not someone who doesn't have a gun, that is rubbish, I am not a slave and I do not own a gun. You use some far out examples, like the rape scenario, well to be honest in the UK if someoen breaks into your house there is a very very large chance they will NOT have a gun, I could defend myself suitably with a number of things I have to hand. If I lived in the US I would have to have a gun because so many criminals have easy access to them that the most petty of crimes now involve firearms, such as muggings or burglary. i guess where you and i differ is that i would just like to use the best tool available for the job at hand. if i have to go about defending myself, i'd rather it be with a handgun that starts with a 4, than my bare hands. im not well trained in hand to hand combat. and definitely would not feel safe playing steven seagal on someone with a gun pointed at me. i also like to use a chain saw when cutting wood instead of a hand saw or ax and i like to use air tools when working on cars instead of hand tools. why mess around? sure, i could try to grapple with the guy at 3 am in my house stealing my shit and trying to shoot at me, but i'd rather try to have the upper hand when im threatened. there is no such thing as a fair fight when fighting in defense. you do anything to stay alive. To say I don't believe a person is capable of defending themselves or their property is stupid, I have said before that I know the gun situation in america is what it is and I would own one in the US, I am just saying that the proliferation of guns in society is more a negative than a positive but you are all for denying someone the basic human right of owning an inanimate object because you are scared of people with guns. i guess i see the big picture. where guns can be used to defend your lives liberty and property knowing full well that the guns i own and that the guns everyone i know owns, will only be put to that use and not for any other aggressive purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decyferon Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 I agree you do anything to survive when defending yourself, I just prefere to defend myself against people when they don't have guns, obviously because you live in the US and have grown up around guns you are used to using that as your defense because the criminals also have guns, I DO SEE the american point of view. I however live somewhere without guns, I have never encountered a criminal with a gun or been threatened with one, I have never known anyone to have been burgaled by someone with a gun nor mugged with a gun. Guns are not needed, but you need them in AMerica because there are just so many of them and easy access to them. I understand having a rifle or handgun, I do think that what the american government should be doing is taking away AK47s and those sort of guns and focussing on getting those off the streets and out of the hands of criminals, then normal citizens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 I agree you do anything to survive when defending yourself, I just prefere to defend myself against people when they don't have guns, obviously because you live in the US and have grown up around guns you are used to using that as your defense because the criminals also have guns, I DO SEE the american point of view. I however live somewhere without guns, I have never encountered a criminal with a gun or been threatened with one, I have never known anyone to have been burgaled by someone with a gun nor mugged with a gun. Guns are not needed, but you need them in AMerica because there are just so many of them and easy access to them. I understand having a rifle or handgun, I do think that what the american government should be doing is taking away AK47s and those sort of guns and focussing on getting those off the streets and out of the hands of criminals, then normal citizens. its sort of silly to sit back in the arm chair and pick and choose who you will be defending yourself against when this is out of your control. the firearm is the great equalizer. the old lady can use this thing to shoot the guy trying to kill and rob her with a knife. the gun is the best tool for the job, no matter if you are facing another gun, a rapist with a knife or a gang of hammer skins. usually the mere sight of a firearm will diffuse the situation. i have never personally encountered a criminal with a gun or been threatened by one. its one thing to say guns are not needed in situation X but its an entirely different situation to say guns are not needed in situation X and you are forbidden from owning one and we'll decide what is best for you. your concern of AK's which are used in very little, if any meaningful percentage of crimes, is a common one. all the gun control measures are aimed at exactly that... keeping evil ak's out of the hands of evil people. but for some reason the bad people still have the firearms. the gun control measures only disarm the people who are already law abiding. if someone is going to use a gun to commit a crime like murder, breaking a gun control law is nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decyferon Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 this is why any gun controls measures I talk about focus on disarming the criminal population before the civilian. I believe the common man deserves precident over the criminal and I would never disarm them before taking that shit off the streets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonsOfSulkendastron Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I understand having a rifle or handgun, I do think that what the american government should be doing is taking away AK47s and those sort of guns and focussing on getting those off the streets and out of the hands of criminals, then normal citizens. the percentage of crimes involving firearms of the assault nature (ak47s, sks, ar15s, augs, what have you) are pretty low man. Handguns (and shotguns)are definitely the most prevalent when it comes to committing crimes with a gun involved...and notice most are stolen? Again, the people who want to commit crimes with a firearm are going to get one. Making the availability of guns a lower number will do nothing to stop firearm related crime. Think its a culture thing bra... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonsOfSulkendastron Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 SCRATCH THAT LAST POST uhh...how would one disarm ONLY the criminal population? That would be sweet. But so would world peace. Thats livin in an unrealistic fantasyland bro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 "how would one disarm ONLY the criminal population?" that is the question. if the gov cant keep drugs out of max security prisons, there is no way in hell to disarm only criminals. i think a lot of the gun control crowd's argument centers around a world in which there is no guns, which therefore would lead them to conclude that if the criminals dont have guns (leaving the GOVERNMENT criminals out of this at present) law abiding citizens shouldnt have them either. only problem is... getting them out of the hands of the criminals. impossible. better chance at seeing winged swine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decyferon Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I know it is an impossibility, don't worry I'm not living in a dream world!! It is just a hard thing to tackle, maybe they should punish criminals who use guns a lot harsher, then you have the problem of an already over populated prison system. I definitely think that if the government wants a war on something as they always seem to, they should focus on getting illegal guns out the hands of criminals, but they won't because they know it is a hopeless task and not worth putting their political reputation on the line, but it idoesn't mean someone should at least try and fight back against the number of criminals using guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonsOfSulkendastron Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 word, it would be real cool if criminals didnt have access to guns, but thefts of guns will always occur, and they will always be able to acquire one if they really wanted it. Perhaps instead of focusing on getting rid of the tools the criminals use, maybe the government should wage a war on the circumstances that cause the psychological factors that would prompt someone to get involved in criminal activity in the first place....wage war on the root of the problem these people have.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 I know it is an impossibility, don't worry I'm not living in a dream world!! It is just a hard thing to tackle, maybe they should punish criminals who use guns a lot harsher, then you have the problem of an already over populated prison system. I definitely think that if the government wants a war on something as they always seem to, they should focus on getting illegal guns out the hands of criminals, but they won't because they know it is a hopeless task and not worth putting their political reputation on the line, but it idoesn't mean someone should at least try and fight back against the number of criminals using guns. Maybe it would be better for the good people to be armed? Making it hard for criminals to know whether or not they might get their head blown off if they try some shit. What happened during the shooting in Dallas in the 60's needs to happen again. Read about it, Decyferon. You might be impressed with our countrymen over here. The people defended the police and other people with their own guns allowing police to rush the clock tower and "subdue" the shooter (by blowing his face off). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUCKMUNI Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I can understand why people may want a gun, i understand that, I just think it is fucking stupid to legally be able to own guns such as AK47s and those kind of weapons, if you want to hunt have a rifle, if you want a gun at home to defend yourself have a handgun I am very glad I live in a country where not every nutjob/junkie is able to arm themseves to the teeth you got a liberal ass mindset and im glad people like you decide to keep your asses on the UK...where yall seem to willingly LOVE to give up your rights....you must live in a cozy as little neighborhood, but im in the east bay homie...oakland...even 16 year olds out here got heat....i keep mr AR15 loaded at all times in case some smart ass wants to get sick and try and rob my house...and i keep 30 rounders in case he wants to bring his friends... stop tryin to control other people....im glad you stay in the UK...all these liberals faggots from SF and cali should join you....UK= where people love to be controlled and protected by their government...yall are PUSSIES... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decyferon Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 your a fucking moron that obviously doesn't know shit, I have as many freedoms as you, try looking at your own neighbourhood, you got 16 year olds running around with guns and you think I live in the place without freedom, jesus christ, sounds to me that you live in the fucked up place not me!! I don't mind having a discussion with mature adults like AOD who can discuss something without getting offensive and acting like some little hoodrat. I'm not trying to control anyone, I was putting the other side to the arguement, obviously hit a raw nerve with you and made you cry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUCKMUNI Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 hahaah yall dont have shit in the UK....they want to ban kitchen knives HAH, your government is all abuot control and restricting your rights...wake up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decyferon Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 my god your an idiot, they aren't going to ban kitchen knives what do you do watch Fox news for your round up of what happens in the world? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUCKMUNI Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 im not really here to get into some real technical argument i just like to bash on the liberal minded....but all i can say is that i got my AR...and you dont....so when SHTF and you are in a bad situation i sincerely wish you good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decyferon Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 because is being liberal is such a bad thing?? why do so many Americans have such a problem with a liberal approach. A liberal is about freedoms and choices. I know a lot of Americans get that confused with socialism, which they then get confused with communism, which they then get confused as being some totalitarian dictatorship. I find it amazing sometimes, to me a liberal is pro choice, anti racism, anti homophobia anti any kind of prejudice. In the UK a conservative is the government which fucks a country and screws over all the people for the benefit of the Richest minority. Also, when the shit hits the fan, I will be doing just fine because I wont have a bunch of crazed teenagers running around with military grade weaponary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUCKMUNI Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 the only freedoms liberals fight for are gay rights and illegal immigrants who shoot law abiding citizens....im from the bay we see the effects of liberal government..tell that to Tony Bologna and his kids who were shot up by a illegal immigrant gang banger who was given "freedom" because its not PC to just ship these faggots off....and now you wanna take my gun rights so that these gangbangers can rob my family and threaten my life? HAHA...i took the AQT and im accurate with my AR out to 400 yards....it would be in their best interests to go rob someone unarmed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUCKMUNI Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 maintain natural point of aim....take note of distance to target, windage....let the rifle relax in your support hand and do not grip it....maintain steady breathing and pay attention to the sway of your iron sights with your breathing...round chambered, safety off...take a breath and gently sqeeze the trigger as your exhale...make sure to keep your finger movement at a minimum, even your bodys heart beat can affect where the round will go...check your shot and adjust your sights/aim accordingly......shooting a rifle is a beautiful art maybe you should try it...then you will understand why some of us want to own ARs and Ak47s... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decyferon Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 But the whole gun control arguement (although I have said it before America is too far down the road now to do anything about) if you had controlled guns a little tighter than you have then you wouldnt have these gangbangers having such ready access to guns with which they then kill people that don't deserve it. I don't have a problem with sensible gun ownership. In the UK, if someone commited a crime like the one you mentioned they would serve a prison sentance then be deported back to where they came from. The only immigrants that get to stay in the country is if they are claiming political asylum because they would be killed for their beliefs in their home country. Obviously some slip through the net, but that guy you mentioned should have been shipped back to where he came from. The problem lies in that guns are so easily available that it is no hassles for the criminals to get hold of them, I have said it so many times but it isn't like that here, if someone breaks into my house they WILL NOT have a gun, I can easily just smash them round the head with a baseball bat and be done with it. If there were stricter regualtions then it would be harder for the criminals to get hold of the guns, personally I think they should toughen up the sentances for illegally owned guns, if you use a gun for a crime, then automatically that should mean you get 20 years inside or more, the punishments just don't fit the crimes, three is no deterant for these gangbangers and criminals with guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUCKMUNI Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 i might be missin a step lol its been a while.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUCKMUNI Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 But the whole gun control arguement (although I have said it before America is too far down the road now to do anything about) if you had controlled guns a little tighter than you have then you wouldnt have these gangbangers having such ready access to guns with which they then kill people that don't deserve it. I don't have a problem with sensible gun ownership. In the UK, if someone commited a crime like the one you mentioned they would serve a prison sentance then be deported back to where they came from. The only immigrants that get to stay in the country is if they are claiming political asylum because they would be killed for their beliefs in their home country. Obviously some slip through the net, but that guy you mentioned should have been shipped back to where he came from. The problem lies in that guns are so easily available that it is no hassles for the criminals to get hold of them, I have said it so many times but it isn't like that here, if someone breaks into my house they WILL NOT have a gun, I can easily just smash them round the head with a baseball bat and be done with it. If there were stricter regualtions then it would be harder for the criminals to get hold of the guns, personally I think they should toughen up the sentances for illegally owned guns, if you use a gun for a crime, then automatically that should mean you get 20 years inside or more, the punishments just don't fit the crimes, three is no deterant for these gangbangers and criminals with guns. alright you got some points....it is waaay to easy to people to get illegal guns because of straw purchases and the availability of legal weapons....but i still think criminals will get weapons....if they shut down local gun shows i know the next big thing wuold be to have weapons shipped from china in parts and then assembled here by the triads i already know that happens...same thing from africa or middle east....the only thing wuold be the price would go up....like AOD said its IMPOSSIBLE to keep guns out of criminals hands.. btw are you anglo brit? immigrant brit? curious how you think the UK has more freedoms than the US unless you moved to the UK frmo somewhere like Islamabad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decyferon Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 lol I am born in the UK, but I have never felt like I have had any freedoms taken away, the only difference between you and I is that I can't legally own a gun (although I probably could because there are legal guns here but I have no need for one) but I can go to the doctors or hospital whenever I want with no fear of bills or having no insurance, so it is swings and roundabouts really. I didn't say I have more freedoms than the US, I said I am just as free as you. It's like me saying to you did you live in the UK and move to th eUS which makes you feel you have more freedoms than someone here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUCKMUNI Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 it aint even that hard to make guns either...people in afghanistan make AKs out of stone molds in mountain huts you dont need a factory...making legal guns illegal would create a huge black market for those who know how to make homemade weapons...there will always be a need for guns it will NEVER go away..we dont live in utopia this is real life the only way to solve gun crime is for the entire populace to be armed, even grannies. then when some fuck decides to rob a store or someone he is gonna have to worry about having a gun pulled in HIS face....like you said we are too far ahead from a gun free society theres no going back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decyferon Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Oh I agree we don't live in a utopia, I have always said there is nothing to be done about the gun situation in America. But something needs to be done about the people that abuse gun ownership and aren't resposible and personally they should be hit with the full extent of the law Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 The problem lies in that guns are so easily available that it is no hassles for the criminals to get hold of them, I have said it so many times but it isn't like that here, if someone breaks into my house they WILL NOT have a gun, I can easily just smash them round the head with a baseball bat and be done with it. If there were stricter regualtions then it would be harder for the criminals to get hold of the guns, personally I think they should toughen up the sentances for illegally owned guns, if you use a gun for a crime, then automatically that should mean you get 20 years inside or more, the punishments just don't fit the crimes, three is no deterant for these gangbangers and criminals with guns. look at prohibition of drugs. drugs are super controlled. you need have to be put on a government watch list to buy cold medicine! 'illegal' narcotics, cannot be kept out of maximum security prisons, there is no way to 'tighten' measures to reduce gun crime. absolute impossibility. yet despite this extreme control of 'illegal' narcotics people are still blowing up their own houses in an effort to try to make money making meth. there are 20,000 gun laws 'tightening' just a 'little bit more to stop gun crime.' none of them have worked. but what has worked is that law abiding citizens are restricted from owning or purchasing weapons to protect their self. back when there were virtually no gun laws, we had virtually no crime. back when you could order 20mm anti material weapons through the mail with no background check, no one was killed with them. when you could have as many 'unregistered' machine guns with any amount of ammunition, virtually no one was killed. i think it is false and overly simplistic to actually try to make an argument that gun control will 1. work, 2. has worked. 3. and that just a little bit more is need to create a perfect humane peace and flower loving society. hey, atleast the UK has partially practiced what they preached. but if they really believed that guns are horrible and can simply just be given up and the perfect society could be achieved, why dont they disarm the military as a bright shining example of peace and love? they could lead by example! but look at your argument. a criminal wont have a gun, so you can just bash him in the head with a baseball bat. is this any less lethal? why are you so opposed to guns, yet have no calms about bashing someones dome in with a baseball bat? the 'justice' system looks at a murder/killling with a gun the same as a murder with a baseball bat. just because i may or may not have small armory, doesnt mean i am 'safe.' owning a gun doesnt really make one trained in its efficient use, nor does having a baseball bat make you trained in the combative use of a baseball bat. im all for choice. options. if someone is trying to kill me, all bets are off. i will use whatever means necessary to stop the threat. a firearm is probably the best means to do so. i dont think there needs to be harsher penalties simply because a crime was committed with a gun, i think harsher sentences should be dealt out all around, for crimes involving a victim and all victim less crimes decriminalized. whether someone is murdered with a bic pen or with an ak-47 makes no difference at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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