How would you feel

[anker.]

jolly good... cheerio!

 

Working a minimum wage job has got to blow ass...I couldn't imagine raising a family on a lesser paycheck...plus i'd lose a few luxuries. At least I'd qualify for assistance with food...childcare...healthcare. It just pisses me off that people abuse the system (like my sister, who refuses to get a higher paying job w/ insurance, solely so she can qualify for more benefits). I dont think i could just sit around like alot of people, and suckle off the goverment teet. Its kinda one of those situations where if you can get away with it, more power to ya i guess? I was just raised that you only deserve what you earn. But, maybe they are smarter than I am, in the long run? :) good day.

[russell jones]

Maybe you should try reading a tad more before you start firing off at the mouth.

 

ditto for yourself, read the posts of those you are talking to.

[lord_casek]

124.193.170.162 dbeautyska dliujie@gmail.com

[MoonsOfSulkendastron]

Here would be a great example that exists today of state run everything. Three letters:

 

D. M. V.

 

Ever had a good experience there? Didnt think so. Government has NEVER been efficient running anything. Socialism doesnt work. I own my own biz, and work my ass off for the life i enjoy. A system like socialism would say, 'You have dirtbikes. Your neighbor doesnt. Thats not fair, we are taking half of your earnings and redistrubuting them so your lazy neighbor can have one too.' UMMMMMM...WHAT?

 

When you have socialism in the U.S. is when you will also have a revolution my friends.

[shai]

Sigh...it doesn't work like that, you're free to own whatever you want in whatever quantities in your typical socialist Western European nation. (I won't argue the point about the DMV sucking, except that's it's not a federal agency.)

 

What a lot of people seem to be doing is conflating socialism with forced collectivism, totalitarianism and fascism. This isn't the USSR, and Obama is not Stalin. Some of you will say that taxation to pay for universal health care is the same as forced collectivism...well, that seems to be taking a very subjective view on the matter even though I can see where the logic lies, but I don't really believe that's the case. You can say it is and point to all kinds of evidence to support your claims, but I think the reason Obama won was because the majority of Americans actually WANT things like affordable health care and not because they're closet socialists.

[Mercer]

It's funny how everyone is making statements against communism not knowing the difference between socialism and communism.

It's also funny that any of you would feel like we aren't already in a socialist system.

 

Like how would you feel if we had food stamps, social security, medicare, public schools and so on? What? We already have?

The line between what we have and socialism has been crossed a long time ago.

[HeavensGate]

[HeavensGate]

[shai]

It's funny how everyone is making statements against communism not knowing the difference between socialism and communism.

It's also funny that any of you would feel like we aren't already in a socialist system.

 

Like how would you feel if we had food stamps, social security, medicare, public schools and so on? What? We already have?

The line between what we have and socialism has been crossed a long time ago.

 

Some people truly believe we'd be better off without these things and that the free market would be a veritable horn of plenty for the haves and the have nots.

 

I disagree, I've needed or used all three at certain points in my life. There's no such thing as "health insurance for the poor" that's entirely within the private sector and not subsidized by tax money...I defy anyone who is against universal health care to show me just one 100% privately run and funded program, foundation, or charity that offers free health care for your average American male who is in his 30s and is unemployed or otherwise unable to pay for insurance.

 

I've looked, it doesn't exist. That means I have to live with the pain and stiffness in my back that I've had since I was 27.

[MoonsOfSulkendastron]

Sigh...it doesn't work like that, you're free to own whatever you want in whatever quantities in your typical socialist Western European nation. (I won't argue the point about the DMV sucking, except that's it's not a federal agency.)

 

What a lot of people seem to be doing is conflating socialism with forced collectivism, totalitarianism and fascism. This isn't the USSR, and Obama is not Stalin. Some of you will say that taxation to pay for universal health care is the same as forced collectivism...well, that seems to be taking a very subjective view on the matter even though I can see where the logic lies, but I don't really believe that's the case. You can say it is and point to all kinds of evidence to support your claims, but I think the reason Obama won was because the majority of Americans actually WANT things like affordable health care and not because they're closet socialists.

 

Well no kidding the majority of Americans are not closet socialists, most were just deceived into thinking that this guy was really going to change things(also partly due to decades of media driven adherence to what everyone else is doing and other "dumbing" mechanisms) . Added to that was the incredibly weak lineup of opposing candidates.

 

And in no way can you compare a socialist west euro country to America as far as freedom to start businesses and working hard at it to accumulate wealth, and let alone own quantities of whatever as a product of that work. A frenchy could never work harder than his neighbor and expect his social status/material wealth to increase. No, no thats not fair! Plus, he prolly wouldnt want to in the first place. The government takes care of him, and makes sure he lives comfortably, so why would he want any more?

 

The real issue here is not whether or America can be compared to socialism or not, and if it can then 'we might as well just accept it cause its not much differant than now.' Thats insane. In America we can do whatever we want. We can start from nothing and work hard to be and have whatever the eff we please. Elitists like obama hate that. Why would they want to make that possible? That a bum can become a billionaire? No way, they want the bum to accept that hes a bum and just 'let us take care of you. We know best.'

Its about controlling the population by a small group of highly intellegent individuals that know whats "best" for everyone else. Which is the most un-American thing to ever even be considered allowed by Americans....but it works to control the populations of the apparently 'un-different' west euro nations so by golly, lets become like them!!

 

Americans dont become like anyone else, fools. We are Americans. We set the standards, not west europe.

[MoonsOfSulkendastron]

Some people truly believe we'd be better off without these things and that the free market would be a veritable horn of plenty for the haves and the have nots.

 

I disagree, I've needed or used all three at certain points in my life. There's no such thing as "health insurance for the poor" that's entirely within the private sector and not subsidized by tax money...I defy anyone who is against universal health care to show me just one 100% privately run and funded program, foundation, or charity that offers free health care for your average American male who is in his 30s and is unemployed or otherwise unable to pay for insurance.

 

I've looked, it doesn't exist. That means I have to live with the pain and stiffness in my back that I've had since I was 27.

 

Undoubtedly i believe that if a person in these circumstances cant afford to be treated, effin treat them! Id pay for them, and I highly doubt the majority of Americans wouldnt do the same or would defy allowing assistance to people in those circumstances(its the taking advantage of such assistance that cant be tolerated). But that can be done by adjusting the current health care system. Why would we completely abolish it to organize an entire new one?

[shai]

The vast majority of conservatives are NOT going to pay for poor people's health care not because it's smacks of socialism, but because THAT'S WHAT OBAMA WANTS. They have made their mandate clear with the Tea Party marches. Even if it sinks the US, they are willing to stonewall and resist and filibuster for the next 4-8 years just to make sure this plan goes down in flames so they can call him a failure.

 

And this is where I lose track of the reasoning. How can America be #1 when it doesn't try to work together to take care of its own? When the only thing that matters is the bottom line and "Fuck you Jack, I got mine?" Where are these Christian values I keep hearing about from conservatives? Obama seems to be trying to do a good turn by the disenfranchised and the Tea Party crowd- the vast majority of whom probably go to church and consider themselves upright God-fearing Americans- is doing everything it can to throw monkey wrenches into the works.

 

That's not dissension or patriotism, that's sheer bloody-mindedness.

[Decyferon]

Well no kidding the majority of Americans are not closet socialists, most were just deceived into thinking that this guy was really going to change things(also partly due to decades of media driven adherence to what everyone else is doing and other "dumbing" mechanisms) . Added to that was the incredibly weak lineup of opposing candidates.

 

And in no way can you compare a socialist west euro country to America as far as freedom to start businesses and working hard at it to accumulate wealth, and let alone own quantities of whatever as a product of that work. A frenchy could never work harder than his neighbor and expect his social status/material wealth to increase. No, no thats not fair! Plus, he prolly wouldnt want to in the first place. The government takes care of him, and makes sure he lives comfortably, so why would he want any more?

 

The real issue here is not whether or America can be compared to socialism or not, and if it can then 'we might as well just accept it cause its not much differant than now.' Thats insane. In America we can do whatever we want. We can start from nothing and work hard to be and have whatever the eff we please. Elitists like obama hate that. Why would they want to make that possible? That a bum can become a billionaire? No way, they want the bum to accept that hes a bum and just 'let us take care of you. We know best.'

Its about controlling the population by a small group of highly intellegent individuals that know whats "best" for everyone else. Which is the most un-American thing to ever even be considered allowed by Americans....but it works to control the populations of the apparently 'un-different' west euro nations so by golly, lets become like them!!

 

Americans dont become like anyone else, fools. We are Americans. We set the standards, not west europe.

 

I think you have a very warped view of what it is like to live in Europe. I swear Americans have been raised with this view that we are told by the government what jobs we can work and what we can own or what we can listen to or watch, this is completely ridiculous.

 

Your example of the Frenchman is completely wrong, just because we may have free healthcare and other 'socialist' things you think people can't or don't work hard to improve their situations or make a name for themselves?? A bum can become a billionaire here just as he can in America, there is no difference. Our societies in Europe are just as free and full of opportunity as your's in America, it is just that you have had this warped view of socialism pushed down your throat throughout the cold war and seem to no longer understand the difference between a totalitarian facist regime and a socialist scheme that is for the good of each member of society (such as free healthcare).

[Decyferon]

The vast majority of conservatives are NOT going to pay for poor people's health care not because it's smacks of socialism, but because THAT'S WHAT OBAMA WANTS. They have made their mandate clear with the Tea Party marches. Even if it sinks the US, they are willing to stonewall and resist and filibuster for the next 4-8 years just to make sure this plan goes down in flames so they can call him a failure.

 

And this is where I lose track of the reasoning. How can America be #1 when it doesn't try to work together to take care of its own? When the only thing that matters is the bottom line and "Fuck you Jack, I got mine?" Where are these Christian values I keep hearing about from conservatives? Obama seems to be trying to do a good turn by the disenfranchised and the Tea Party crowd- the vast majority of whom probably go to church and consider themselves upright God-fearing Americans- is doing everything it can to throw monkey wrenches into the works.

 

That's not dissension or patriotism, that's sheer bloody-mindedness.

 

It is funny that Americans can be so proud of their country when you have people like these tea marchers who are happy to screw over their fellow country men to make a point. It is only people in America that think America is the number one place to live, don't get me wrong therer are aspects of America that I like, and I'm certainly not some anti-American mindset person, but you have one of the most selfish natures of any country, your OK so fuck all the millions of poor peopls that can't afford to go get their health problems sorted out. You managed to go to college and university and get youself a good job, well fuck the poor person whos school got no funding and they couldnt then go to college because their school had a shit reputation and now they have to work 3 jobs just to make ends meet, even though they did well at school and have worked hard their entire life.

 

For me people always go on about the American dream, but the American dream only really seems applicable to the well off upper middle classes who can afford to live the American dream and then the rare occason the person that manages to get themself out of the poverty that so many Americans live under. When America was a younger country and the industrial revolution was booming then yes it was a place of opportunity where you could make your name and your millions, it isn't like that anymore.

[angelofdeath]

this thread reeks of collectivism.

 

the govt. has been waging a 'war' against poverty since atleast the 1960's and they havent made any headway in alleviating this problem. the american 'poor' are the richest in the entire world. they drive cars, have cell phones and have internet connections. capitalism has increased the living standard of americans above most of the entire world. even the kings, not to long ago still had to piss in a pot and throw it out the window. look at what capitalism has done. the innovation. the benefits are all around you. everything you have and love you owe to capitalism.

 

a few things i'd like to point out... health insurance is out of the reach of some americans because of a myriad of government interventions, taxes, and regulations. not to mention malpractice lawsuits, which could be largely eliminated in some cases by the freedom to contract who in the hell you want to, with whom you want to. most of the 'poor' are poor because they want to be. look at the welfare system. if you have little to no productivity, it is much easier to find ways to feed off the welfare system, than to work for a living. where else can a 16 year old single mother have her apartment paid for? the incentives are all backwards. the incentive is not to get married, because you can increase your living standard by doing little to no work at all.

 

instead of going on and on about how unfair life is, (omg, you mean in america you have to buy your own food!! OMG@!!!#R$)why dont the poor people do something about it?

 

everyone seems to have this absurd notion that there is such a thing as 'positive' rights. what made slavery bad? was it the work? no, it was the fact that you couldnt quit. positive rights mean that in order for you to have a 'right' to healthcare, food, housing, someone must pay for it. in another words, you must take something from your neighbor. whereas the negative rights outlined in the bill of rights, means you can do what you want, as long as you dont infringe on anyone elses right. my right to not be killed means that you simply dont kill me. your right to healthcare means someone else has to pay for it.

 

this is all well and good if you do it voluntarily. the same as a black man working. but when force them to work, it is SLAVERY.

 

there isnt anyone 'screwing' over their fellow americans marching in a tea party. despite hypocrisies, they are defending their natural rights that this country was founded on.

 

also touched in this thread is why isnt there already a private insurance company paying for the unemployed health benefits. why dont you ask the smart lefties who are for universal healthcare?

look, lets assume that everyone is exactly how you say they are... capitalist greedy pigs that want everyone to die. why arent all the lefties clamoring about free healthcare, putting all their money where their mouth's are? why havent they created a foundation, all the billionaire lefties like warren buffett, george soro's, etc, and providing this service? well, because they are hypocrites.

 

another thing that needs to be touched on is the phenomenon albert jay nock, the anarchist described in the early 20th century. people are less likely to donate to charity because the govt has already seized money from them in the name of giving to charity. so most people dont donate to charity because they have wealth seized/stolen from them already for welfare handouts.

 

instead of allowing a corporatist or soviet healthcare system to take place, i'd much rather fix the problem of high healthcare costs with a free market alternative, making prices cheaper through competition and innovation. problem solved. there is no food crisis. there will be no healthcare crisis. the market provides. i'd also eliminate all welfare except in the most dire of circumstances. you'd also have to stop subsidizing the unemployed. who in the right mind would want to work, when you can collect a check from the government for not working for 2 years? no wonder unemployment is staying high. also an elimination of the minimum wage would stop outlawing low productivity jobs.

 

all this stuff are unintended consequences and a recipe for a total state. wishing for a state that only does 'good' things is an impossibility. the bad come with it. in trying to fix all these humanitarian problems you end up creating 10 more problems for each thing you attempt to fix. then you need more govt to fix the new problems you created.

 

separation of govt and society is the only answer. complete and total separation.

 

there is no american dream. there is no right to have the american dream. the american dream is simply the pursuit what you want without infringements. there is no guarantees in life. if i were poor, i'd much rather live in america, than north korea or the former soviet union. we all know how great these wonderful egalitarian systems work. as mises said... inside every socialist there is an undercover dictator.

[christo-f]

Well no kidding the majority of Americans are not closet socialists, most were just deceived into thinking that this guy was really going to change things(also partly due to decades of media driven adherence to what everyone else is doing and other "dumbing" mechanisms) . Added to that was the incredibly weak lineup of opposing candidates.

 

And in no way can you compare a socialist west euro country to America as far as freedom to start businesses and working hard at it to accumulate wealth, and let alone own quantities of whatever as a product of that work. A frenchy could never work harder than his neighbor and expect his social status/material wealth to increase. No, no thats not fair! Plus, he prolly wouldnt want to in the first place. The government takes care of him, and makes sure he lives comfortably, so why would he want any more?

 

The real issue here is not whether or America can be compared to socialism or not, and if it can then 'we might as well just accept it cause its not much differant than now.' Thats insane. In America we can do whatever we want. We can start from nothing and work hard to be and have whatever the eff we please. Elitists like obama hate that. Why would they want to make that possible? That a bum can become a billionaire? No way, they want the bum to accept that hes a bum and just 'let us take care of you. We know best.'

Its about controlling the population by a small group of highly intellegent individuals that know whats "best" for everyone else. Which is the most un-American thing to ever even be considered allowed by Americans....but it works to control the populations of the apparently 'un-different' west euro nations so by golly, lets become like them!!

 

Americans dont become like anyone else, fools. We are Americans. We set the standards, not west europe.

 

Holy jesus dude, your idea of how Europe works is so far from the truth you sound a little deluded.

 

Sweden is pretty much the most socialist country in Europe and my close friends who were born and live there have become quite wealthy in either the media or owning a number of clothes shops throughout the country. My friends in France that own restaurants and wine shops and others that I know who sell construction material have also become very wealthy by hard work and investment. Just like you can and do in the US, no different.

 

Honestly dude, you need to understand more about Europe before you form such strong opinions because the ones you have right now are not the way it is. Jesus, I live in China and it's not even like that here! You may be thinking of North Korea or China in the 1950s....

 

Pure socialism is fucked,

Pure free market is fucked.

 

A mix of the two seem to work fine for many countries around the world.

[MoonsOfSulkendastron]

The vast majority of conservatives are NOT going to pay for poor people's health care not because it's smacks of socialism, but because THAT'S WHAT OBAMA WANTS. They have made their mandate clear with the Tea Party marches. Even if it sinks the US, they are willing to stonewall and resist and filibuster for the next 4-8 years just to make sure this plan goes down in flames so they can call him a failure.

 

And this is where I lose track of the reasoning. How can America be #1 when it doesn't try to work together to take care of its own? When the only thing that matters is the bottom line and "Fuck you Jack, I got mine?" Where are these Christian values I keep hearing about from conservatives? Obama seems to be trying to do a good turn by the disenfranchised and the Tea Party crowd- the vast majority of whom probably go to church and consider themselves upright God-fearing Americans- is doing everything it can to throw monkey wrenches into the works.

 

That's not dissension or patriotism, that's sheer bloody-mindedness.

 

I think you go a little overboard saying the 'vast majority' of conservatives--there are only a small number of nutcases that say such things at the relatively small tea parties. But you are right that most want to see obama fail, b/c what he wants for the country is completely different than what we were founded on. I hate to see conservatives pull that garbage of "get a job!" to bums and such asking for help. I think thats horrible. I would advocate to quit spending 2BILLION a week in iraq and spend that on eliminating homelessness--but dont just hand it out. That only fuels the absolutely intolerable mindset most Americans of my generation have that everything in life is handed to you.

 

Thus, I too believe that the mindset of "F U, I got mine" is whack, but we must consider that our most basic instinct is self preservation, and most people (including Euros) are mostly looking after #1, and/or their loved ones.

 

And sure, you could say most conservatives are God fearing Americans but some minor factions actions at miniscule tea parties promote hypocracy, so what? Does that mean liberals are not God fearing Americans also? No. But when you have a president in the white house thats the only one in history that refuses to pray to the God America was founded around(let alone the theory/possibility of his muslim leanings), then yes, you are going to have alot of God fearing Americans(cons or libs) that are going to try to throw a wrench in the "works" he has for the country, b/c to be quite honest, WE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THIS FOOLS AGENDA IS.

 

Change. Thats about it. And a cabinet full of advisers that are SELF PROCLAIMED RADICAL COMMUNISTS. Oh yes, and the most radical administration we have ever seen even for most democrats..

 

I would say attempts to stop any kind of change away from what America has been and is could be considered patriotism. The most easy way to destroy something so mighty is from the inside out

[MoonsOfSulkendastron]

And id be down to live in Europe again, i love it there! Id just say its a bit differant than the oppurtunities we have in America, just seems kinda limited in Europe.

[shai]

Of course he's going to fail. Half of Congress refuses to work with the guy. It has nothing to do with patriotism- the people that are blocking him are the same guys that take money from corporations that outsourcing jobs and jack up insurance rates.

 

I don't really care that much for Obama, but this is one thing I definitely agree with him on. We're falling way behind the rest of the world here in health care and life expectancy (we're 38th in that department) and half of the country seems to think that's A-OK. I don't get it.

 

And all they can do is call Obama a communist...well, I guess they're entitled to their opinion but I think socialism means something way different that what they think it means.

 

We've been headed towards corporate fascism for a long time, and it has everything to do with the neocon's agenda. They want financial control of America, and by extension of that a lot of the rest of the world. Once they have that, then they can do whatever they want.

 

THAT'S the plan, not communism, or socialism, or collectivism. Instead of a one world government we're going to have a board of directors, and that's going to be far worse than any plan Obama has. All they really have to do to achieve that is block Obama for the next few years, make him look like a failure, then put their guy in charge in 2012. Game, set, and match.

[angelofdeath]

fascism is bad enough. this has been going on full force since the new deal, with a good dose of socialism thrown in for good measure. fascism is bad enough. but just because fascism is bad doesnt mean we need to socialize everything instead. how about freedom?

 

FA hayek pointed out years back that in the US 'socialism' doesnt necessarily mean government ownership of the means of production. it means egalitarianism at all costs.

 

i agree with moon, i'd much rather see the overseas empire ended and troops brought home and that money used on the domestic front temporarily to pay down debt. but ultimately to eliminate all these unintended consequences, the welfare state was we know it, has to go.

 

instead of trying to create a totalitarian welfare/insurance/govt run medical industrial complex that is 10 times worse than the system we have now, why not decentralize and repeal? why force the entire country into a healthcare boondoggle? what i would like to see is a congress and a president that follow the constitution. that stand up and say... the govt in the US was created to provide national defense, establish free trade amongst the states and negotiate treaties. it was not created to run an overseas empire, run a domestic welfare empire with millions of citizens dependent on the central state that keep the charade going by people able to vote away the wealth of other citizens and give it to themselves. it was not created to cradle and coddle every citizen their entire life and to provide for their every need. the government is the very reason why health insurance is expensive. as of right now, we will be decentralizing and repealing all unconstitutional laws and dept's and the 10th amendment will once again reign supreme.

 

that is what needs to happen. there will no doubt be experiments in states to try universal healthcare. let them try it. let idaho have free market healthcare. who's business is it of anyones anyway? we'll see what works. when all teh socialized governments declare bankruptcy and the riots start, we'll see which system works better.

 

half of congress refusing to deal with a commie is a damn good thing. i wish half +1 of congress wouldnt of given bush a blank check to invade foreign countries whenever he wanted. we need more deadlock. we dont need compromise. we need to shut down the very entity that has caused all this social chaos. the federal government.

you cannot look to the people who have created a multitude of problems for the entire country for a fix. it is impossible. it will only lead us further down the road to serfdom. when the govt controls our healthcare, what next will they control?

 

as always, everyone wants security and handouts instead of freedom. just leave me alone.

why cant all these schemes be voluntary? because they cant be. its government. they have a monopoly on force. to tell you what to do. whenever they want for whatever reason. if they were voluntary transaction, it would just be the 'market.'

 

the entire debate on all these stupid ass totalitarian issues could be eliminated by inserting that one thing... 'these programs and institutions and taxes are all voluntary. no force will be applied to you if you do not participate. have a nice day.'

 

the issue isnt socialized healthcare, its FORCE. partial slavery. chained to the state

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

Of course he's going to fail. Half of Congress refuses to work with the guy. It has nothing to do with patriotism- the people that are blocking him are the same guys that take money from corporations that outsourcing jobs and jack up insurance rates.

 

I don't really care that much for Obama, but this is one thing I definitely agree with him on. We're falling way behind the rest of the world here in health care and life expectancy (we're 38th in that department) and half of the country seems to think that's A-OK. I don't get it.

 

And all they can do is call Obama a communist...well, I guess they're entitled to their opinion but I think socialism means something way different that what they think it means.

 

We've been headed towards corporate fascism for a long time, and it has everything to do with the neocon's agenda. They want financial control of America, and by extension of that a lot of the rest of the world. Once they have that, then they can do whatever they want.

 

THAT'S the plan, not communism, or socialism, or collectivism. Instead of a one world government we're going to have a board of directors, and that's going to be far worse than any plan Obama has. All they really have to do to achieve that is block Obama for the next few years, make him look like a failure, then put their guy in charge in 2012. Game, set, and match.

 

That last paragraph is pretty interesting.

 

Considering that most of the "elite", have been pointing to Obama to lead that era in.

 

___________

 

Which he is. This Health Care bill is going to pass. It doesn't matter. They want it. They're going to get it.

 

To also push off on other peoples opinion just because you think it's a good idea for "FREE" Health Care doesn't mean it is.

 

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." ~ Mark Twain.

[MoonsOfSulkendastron]

a very nice discussion, lads. Financial control is the aim...but do you think they already have that? Forcing healthcare on people who dont want it is NOT good for business, but i think as long as they get it through quick and its established than they dont really care about the reprecussions of it on them. What is it, like 93% of senior citizens dont want the new health care plan? But theyre going to force it anyway?

 

not cool bro.

[shai]

That last paragraph is pretty interesting.

 

Considering that most of the "elite", have been pointing to Obama to lead that era in.

 

___________

 

Which he is. This Health Care bill is going to pass. It doesn't matter. They want it. They're going to get it.

 

To also push off on other peoples opinion just because you think it's a good idea for "FREE" Health Care doesn't mean it is.

 

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." ~ Mark Twain.

 

I don't think Obama is that guy. He's looking like he might be the fall guy along with Bush. It's hard to say. If I had to pick someone from the Dems to be that guy, it would probably be Al Gore.

 

I don't think it's going to be a perfect plan, and I wish people that don't want it or need it could opt out if only so they'll shut the fuck up (but mostly because it's only fair for them to have that right). However, I don't have insurance, so I guess I should confess to having selfish motives on this one.

 

It's not the opinions that offend me (even though I have a hard time understanding them), but the fact that some of these people are just straight up, flat out racist with it. To them it doesn't seem to be about policy at all, they just don't want some uppity nigra telling them how they're going to pay for health care for "welfare queens" (read: black people). Maybe not you, maybe not AOD, maybe not casek...but they're not hard to spot.

[laughslast]

in retrospect i should have done more research to use better terminology. so people know exactly what i mean. instead of going through every aspect of gov. and dissecting how i feel about it if it were socialistic, im just going to compare it to france. If the U.S. was ran the same as france. How would that be to people?

 

if america was run the same as france......................

 

 

we would have more political parties