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Cash for Clunkers is fucked. DO NOT GO TO THEIR WEBSITE


lord_casek

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Not sure if it's been mentioned, but that stuff shows up only on the dealers version of the website (blue). The consumer version (green) has none of it.

 

Wouldn't want to mess with it anyways, but this is a bunch of Fox News hype.

 

 

Wouldn't you agree that is still a violation of some rights?

 

If I owned a dealership, I wouldn't want them to be looking

through communications with employees and customers.

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I don't think that was me that propped you on this thread, but you're welcome.

 

Casek, the dealer has free choice on whether to join the scheme or not. I agree that the disclaimer sounds extreme as fuck, but given the high risk of corruption and fraud involved in the process, I'm not surprised the gov is clamping down hard on the surveillance tip for dealers.

 

The point is, it's perfectly OK to go to the cars.gov site and look around, and therefore the thread title and intro post is misleading.

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Checking out some of the numbers, the Senate optimistic to reach deal this week, Dem leadership meeting with Barack tomorrow for strategy. 80K (administration) or 120K (senate) vehicles reported sold. On track for double 240K. Avg. MPG improvement 9.6. Ford Focus top seller. Big three reporting more than half of sales. Toyota reports Prius, Camry, and Tacoma sales made up 78% of total clunker sales. Ford reported first year-over-year monthly sales increase since a year ago. GM reports small car sales made 54% jump in sales due to the program. Sounds all good to me.

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Malware installed by the U.S. Government. Yes, they have complete control and most likely

start sifting files from the click of "I agree".

 

You know, to protect us....from terrorists.

 

 

Ah yes, The Obama act. He can't even do the cash for clunkers right without fucking it up.

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sounds good, give me a communist economy w/o totalitarian leadership.. yeah right.. free mason's been runn'n shit for too long, they are the ORIGINAL HITLERS STALINS AND MUSSOLINIS.. WE NEED TO TAKE THE MONEY AND THE POWER OUT OF THEIR HANDS.. but you'll never have an opportunity to vote for anyone who's not freemason owned.. barrack obama=legal U.S. slavery.. jokes on us though

 

Shut your dumb ass up

you don't know shit about free masonry?

How many books have you read on freemasonry? 2, mabee 4 books written in the past 40 years?

I'll fucking own your dumb ass if you wanna run your yap about freemasonry off some shit you read on some dumbasses web site.

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Considering people that drive beaters most likely can't afford a new car this seems like an elaborate ruse to get broke people into buying something they can't afford.

Didn't the government learn anything from the mortgage foreclosure fiasco.

 

I imagine the best job security in the states will soon be in the field of reposition.

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I read earlier that cash for clunkers is doing great and has bought more than 16,000 clunkers. NHTSA states that $69 million of the $1billion fund has already been spoken for but Michigan's 10th district Republican Representative Congresswoman Candice Miller wrote that the money to buy the clunkers could run out in a couple of weeks and that she's currently writing the government to increase funding.

 

After making the coolest tin foil hat 12oz has never seen, I guess the 69 million dollar question would be: You think she cares what strings are attached to that money?

 

Another question is, wtf are they gonna do with 16,000+ clunkers? I'll buy one.

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Reading the posts since I last logged, it's like a littany of misinformation. Does anybody even read anything anymore before posting.

 

One thing tho, I hear lots of jealousy at people not being able to buy new cars. Ask yourselves this, all those repo's, what happens to them? They end up parked in your frugal ass's driveway, that's what.

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Another question is, wtf are they gonna do with 16,000+ clunkers? I'll buy one.

 

they kill the engine then probably sell them for scrap, which sucks 'cause there was a lot of money in scrap metal sales a few years ago.

 

i'm done debating, my post count is high enough. its interesting though that more people than i thought seem to be echoing mild or moderately conservative viewpoints in here...

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Yeah, see how many would jump off that ship if the program benefited them.

 

At 50 MPG,, my Prius gets 278% better mileage than my old vehicle, has to put me up there near the top of the heap of 130K vehicles sold at the close of business Monday.

 

The Prius is the 4th best selling vehicle right now.

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Another question is, wtf're they gonna do with 16,000+ clunkers? I'll buy one.

 

You can't the engine gets disabled at the dealer.

 

The following is taken from the C4CRule_OMB.pdf:

The agency considered several possible methods of rendering the engine

inoperable. The agency was looking for a method that was safe for workers involved,

completely effective, environmentally sound, and relatively inexpensive for a dealer to

use. NHTSA’s Vehicle Research and Test Center (VRTC) tested various methods and

prepared a report (placed in the docket) summarizing the tests. VRTC evaluated four

options: (1) the use of sodium silicate solution in the manner the agency has now

adopted; (2) destroying the oil filter sealing land and threaded fastener boss; (3) drilling a

hole in the engine block; and (4) running the engine without oil. VRTC concluded that

the sodium silicate method was the best option. The other methods all had significant

problems related to their effectiveness, practical limitations based on vehicle variations,

and/or safety risks for workers involved.

 

Sodium Silicate solution is a mixture of water and sodium silicate solids. When,

after draining the oil, it is introduced into the engine oil system, the oil pump is able to

distribute the solution throughout the engine oiling system. The heat of the operating

engine then dehydrates the solution leaving solid sodium silicate distributed throughout

the engine’s oiled surfaces and moving parts. These solids quickly abrade the bearings

causing the engine to seize while damaging the moving parts of the engine and coating all

of the oil passages. Only a small amount of sodium silicate remains in solution after

completion of the process. Many of the engine parts will be unaffected by this process

such as: intake and exhaust manifolds, bolt-on components, and fuel system components.

 

The agency reviewed available information about sodium silicate and its

properties, including a toxicology report and material safety data sheets that are available

in the docket. Sodium silicate is a commonly used substance found in a wide range of

products, including even dishwasher detergent. The Food and Drug Administration lists

it as a GRAS (Generally Regarded as Safe) substance. It is used to treat hazardous

wastes, and is frequently used in the automotive industry as a rust inhibitor in cooling

systems, and to seal leaks in cooling systems, head gaskets, and exhaust systems. Neither

our review of available information nor our discussions with other agencies (EPA and

OSHA) gave the agency reason to be concerned about the use of sodium silicate as a

significant health or environmental issue.

 

It is important to note that there are many varieties of sodium silicates, which are

differentiated by weight ratio (the ratio of the silicon dioxide and sodium oxide that make

up the compound). The weight ratios range from 1.0 to 3.5, with the higher ratio

formulations being less irritating for humans and less corrosive in an engine environment.

The material that dealers will be required to use under this rule is at the higher end of the

range– 3.2–which means that it is far less of a potential health or environmental issue

than other lower range formulations of the product.

 

Like many household and workplace products, sodium silicate solution can be

harmful if swallowed or inhaled and can cause irritation to the eyes or respiratory tract if

used improperly. Employers whose employees may come in contact with the material

need to provide them with adequate warning of these risks and appropriate protection.

Because sodium silicate has been used in automotive repair for decades, it has long been

present both in repair shops and in vehicles at various stages of recycling. It is

reasonable to assume, therefore, that dealerships, scrap yards, and shredder facilities are

well equipped to take appropriate measures to protect their workers.

 

Nor did we find reason to have significant concerns about the environmental

effects of sodium silicate in this application. The EPA does not regulate it as a hazardous

substance. Given the high weight ratio of the formulation that will be used to disable the

engines, the risk of its causing corrosion is very low. In a report prepared for the agency,

a toxicology expert reviewed the process required by this rule concluded: “Provided

adequate safety equipment is used by personnel in dealerships and shredder operations,

and dust control measures are employed at shredder operations to minimize airborne

particulates, the use of sodium silicate solutions to disable automobile engines is not

expected to adversely affect occupationally exposed workers, nor are sodium silicate

particulates expected to harm the environment.”

 

The following the procedure outlined for the dealerships:

Engine Disablement Procedures for the CARS Program

THIS PROCEDURE IS NOT TO BE USED BY THE VEHICLE OWNER

Perform the following procedure to disable the vehicle engine.

1. Obtain solution of 40% sodium silicate/60% water. (The Sodium Silicate

(SiO2/Na2O) must have a weight ratio of 3.0 or greater.)

2. Drain engine oil for environmentally appropriate disposal.

3. Install the oil drain plug.

4. Since the procedure is intended to render the engine inoperative, drive or move the

vehicle to the desired area for disablement.

5. Pour enough solution in the engine through the oil fill for the oil pump to circulate

the solution throughout the engine. Start by adding 2 quarts of the solution, which

should be sufficient in most cases.

CAUTION: Wear goggles and gloves. Appropriate protective clothing should be

worn to prevent silicate solution from coming into contact with the skin.

6. Replace the oil fill cap.

7. Start the engine.

8. Run engine at approximately 2000 rpm (for safety reasons do not operate at high

rpm) until the engine stops. (Typically the engine will operate for 3 to 7 minutes. As

the solution starts to affect engine operation, the operator will have to apply more

throttle to keep the engine at 2000 rpm.)

9. Allow the engine to cool for at least 1 hour.

10. With the battery at full charge or with auxiliary power to provide the power of a fully

charged battery, attempt to start the engine.

11. If the engine will not operate at idle, the procedure is complete.

12. If the engine will operate at idle, repeat steps 7 through 11 until the engine will no

longer idle.

13. Attach a label to the engine that legibly states the following:

This engine is from a vehicle that is part of the Car Allowance Rebate System

(CARS). It has significant internal damage caused by operating the

engine with a sodium silicate solution (liquid glass) instead of oil.

14. File this document in the file for the new vehicle purchase.

 

And then it goes to salvage auction (which sells to junkyard that assumes responsibility for crushing the car, or to an ELVS certified junkyard (except in Maine which has already certified all the junkyards taking vehicles in a comparable program),

 

During the six-month period prior to the required crushing or shredding of the trade-in vehicle, the disposal facility may sell any parts of the vehicle other than the engine block or drive train (unless the drive train is dismantled and sold in parts)

 

If the ELVS yard is only capable of crushing the vehicles, it is assumed by the agency, it will be shredded for recycling. Once crushed, however, there is no further tracking of the individual vehicle.

 

That's what happens to the car, you're welcome!

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