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Unemployment is at 9.7%.

 

 

 

Can you read?

 

statistics ignore those who are "marginally attached"
"People who are willing and able to work, who have either held a job or searched for employment within the last year, but are not actively seeking employment. Discouraged workers, people who are willing and able to engage in productive activities, but due to their overwhelming lack of success believe that any effort to find a job will be fruitless so they have stopped seeking employment, fall within this broader category of marginally-attached workers. People can be marginally attached to the labor force for a variety of reasons, discouraged workers, in contrast, achieve their designation specifically because they believe search efforts are not worthwhile."

 

 

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:9uPbp-WNfVQJ:www.bls.gov/opub/ils/pdf/opbils74.pdf+marginally+attached+workers+unemployment+statistics&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

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Casek, I'm beginning to think that you posted a bunch of articles and hoped I wouldn't read them.

 

The Bloomberg piece was actually the exact opposite of what you said it was (the President, the Sec. Tres. and the Chairman of the Nat. Res. all on record as saying that the USD will NOT be replaced as the standard). Now this article you've posted for France/EU doesn't even have anything to do with the USD, not one little bit.

 

You gave the title of this article as "EU Calls For a Global Currency".

 

In actual fact this article was about Sarkozy calling for better regulaiton of the banking system and an end to tax havens. This issue was what bought Sarozy and Hu Jintao into a shouting match that had to be separated and mediated by Obama due to Sarkozy labalung HK and Macau as tax havens (Sarko was basically calling for these places to open up their books).

 

NO WHERE IN THIS WHOLE ARTICLE THAT YOU POSTED WAS THE ISSUE OF REPLACING THE USD AS THE STANDARD CURRENCY ADDRESSED.

 

Your argument for the EU calling for a global currency remains completely non-existent.

 

Please show me how that article justifies the claims that you have made for the EU or France is calling for the USD to be replaced.

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Oh Casek.....

 

You posted the UK Telegraph article as support for you claim that the UK supports removing the US as the standard currency. I assume you came to this conclusion because its title mentioned a new Bretton-Woods. Yet I also assume that you didn't actually read the article and/or understand what it was talking about.

 

From the article:

 

The Prime Minister said that we "must have a new Bretton Woods - building a new international financial architecture for the years ahead".

 

...

 

"With the same courage and foresight of [these] founders, we must now reform the international financial system around the agreed principles of transparency, integrity, responsibility, good housekeeping and co-operation across borders."

 

...

 

It is understood that the Prime Minister wishes to see the IMF reformed to become a "global central bank" closely monitoring the international economy and financial system. There may also be global rules to prevent conflicts of interest and to boost transparency in the financial system.

 

 

 

I'm not sure if you actually understand what happened with the global financial crisis (your linking Ponzi schemes to a conversation about global standards also reinforces my doubt) but the world was basically pissed off at the banks and their lack of proper risk/debt control. The G20 meeting provided the forum to discuss new measures to prevent the same thing happening again. That was when the first calls by China and Russia came about for the new standard.

 

 

Your claims for the UK calling for a new global currency remain totally non-existent.

 

Please show me where in this article or any other that the UK is calling for the USD to be replaced as the global standard.

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The U.S. has flip flopped on the issue.

 

They have repeatedly said they would at least "consider" the idea. Which has lead to fluctuations in the market, which then lead to more flip flopping about how the dollar is what we are, and it isn't changing any time soon.

 

I think when a country owns 30% of your debt, regardless to what you may or may not think about them, you have to pay attention to what is being said.

 

Our financial system is controlled and run by a group of people we (The citizens of the United States) have absolutely no control over. Now if I was investing into a company that was run like this, I would certainly be worried about my investment. Enough to pull out all of my money completely.

 

I hope at least this pressure gets us the ability to audit the FED and gain more power over them, not vice versa which seems to be the case.

 

Woe is me...

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http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=atgpW1E28_4s

 

 

US has a 14 trillion dollar economy...

 

how is it not criminal that the government and the fed are stealing^^^the said amount of money (in HALf the time it takes to have a gdp) from me and what my offspring is to multiply/reproduce for the rest of time not criminal?

...the entire process of how our currency is established and generated is unconstitutional.

so what ever they do is illegal, that is how it works.

 

how do you call a giant black hole of perpetual debt that is exploding and multiplying, a strong and stable economy?

according to your standards from how your making it sound, money is debt?

money is debt when the fed is printing it.

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Yeah, they fuck with those unemployment statistics to make them look as best as they can.

 

Just as when it comes to crime, they do whatever they can to make things look safer, than it actually is.

 

They have made amendments to what they officially consider "unemployed". I don't remember what they changed or how they did it, but I heard at least one change, something like after a period of 5 years if someone remains unemployed they are no longer counted into that figure.

 

Granted people that have been unemployed for more than five years at this point, really doesn't show exactly how bad we were before this recession started, it just gives you an example as to the figures probably being a few percent higher than what is being advertised.

 

I know most of you know these things. I'm just saying.

 

Also, I will agree that we probably have at least over the course of history had one of the more sound economies, with one of the most stable forms of government. I'll also agree with Christo, as of course a country like the United States is a much safer bet as far as investments are concerned than lets say, Russia, or China. Obviously because of the history on said governments, and their economies.

 

I still don't believe that the US economy is as strong and dependable as is being advertised. Not until our government get's control over the FED, and the people get back control of the government from the bankers/corporate interests.

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Thanks! Although, the writer did not explain how closely the method to derive the 20% figure was related to historical methods. I would like to see the same method applied to the depression to get a real idea.

 

Even at 20%, the current recession would not be as devastating for some compared to how the depression hurt people. We have many more safety nets in place nowadays that would make the situation of the unemployed less desperate.

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Just on the claim that the economy may not be as sound as "they" want to make out, that may be 100% true. However, even then it is still light years ahead of everyone else. The next two economies are Japan and China (China and Germany compete for 3rd place) and the two Asian economies are totally artificial and run on low interest government backed debt.

 

IF the US economy is criminal (which really doesn't mean it's not strong, it just means you don't like it)the next two are a house of cards that are at risk of being blown over when the US economy sneezes. Exactly like what we just saw with the recent issues. They are both export economies that own a massive amount of US debt. If the US sinks a bit, China and Japan crash.., disastrously. That STILL leaves the US massively stronger than anyone else.

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Egypt Calls for Establishing New World Order to Overcome Crises

 

http://english.cri.cn/6966/2009/07/12/1721s500738.htm

 

Obama's Biggest Radical

http://www.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=34198

 

 

John Holdren, Obama's Science Czar, says: Forced abortions and mass sterilization needed to save the planet

http://zombietime.com/john_holdren/

 

 

 

http://www.infowars.com/obama-science-advisor-called-for-planetary-regime-to-enforce-totalitarian-population-control-measures/

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IF the US economy is criminal (which really doesn't mean it's not strong, it just means you don't like it)the next two are a house of cards that are at risk of being blown over when the US economy sneezes. Exactly like what we just saw with the recent issues.

 

 

this is why interdependence of different nations on different economies is so bad!

that's why we don't want a global financial regulatory body, which would put the planet under ONE economic model so to speak... nor some sort of global currency

or even regional currency(euro/amero)!!!

 

one size fits all is not the fucking answerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

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Egypt Calls for Establishing New World Order to Overcome Crises

 

http://english.cri.cn/6966/2009/07/12/1721s500738.htm

 

Obama's Biggest Radical

http://www.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=34198

 

 

John Holdren, Obama's Science Czar, says: Forced abortions and mass sterilization needed to save the planet

http://zombietime.com/john_holdren/

 

 

 

http://www.infowars.com/obama-science-advisor-called-for-planetary-regime-to-enforce-totalitarian-population-control-measures/

 

 

No Casek.

 

No new articles until you answer to the criticisms I've posted to the earlier claims you made.

 

You either agree that your claims were false/invalid or you back them up. So far you have completely failed to do either and you need to address that rather than just continuing on as if you had never made claims you could not support.

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I was busy replying to your other nonsense.

 

 

 

``Perhaps what we need is to go back to the first Bretton Woods, to go back to discipline,'' Trichet said after giving a speech at the Economic Club of New York yesterday. ``

 

 

“We now have global financial markets but what we do not have is anything other than national and regional regulation and supervision,” Brown lamented from Brussels.

 

 

"Sometimes it takes a crisis for people to agree that what is obvious and should have been done years ago, can no longer be postponed," Brown told an audience earlier today.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iqbjATskwxNr2tyDViM7bbz8J_rg

 

 

http://www.reuters.com/resources/flash/include_video.swf?edition=US&videoId=92098

 

 

European Union President Nicholar Sarkozy and European Commission President J. M. Barroso are to travel to Washington to press for a sweeping overhaul of the Global financial system to include a blueprint for a Worldwide Currency System at a crunch meeting with George Bush at the weekend

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFs99zBTRO0&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.infowars.com%2Feu-leaders-call-for-global-currency%2F&feature=player_embedded

 

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=FSIXHTPG

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Ok, what you have posted above says absolutely nothing about a global currency and doesn't even mention the issue.

 

 

``Perhaps what we need is to go back to the first Bretton Woods, to go back to discipline,'' Trichet said after giving a speech at the Economic Club of New York yesterday. `` [what has this to do with a new global standard? You realise that Bretton-Woods is a whole lot more than the USD/Gold standard, right?]

 

 

“We now have global financial markets but what we do not have is anything other than national and regional regulation and supervision,” Brown lamented from Brussels. [That is referring to the regulation of the global banking system when it comes to the short term money market, insurance and the selling off of debt to financial/investment houses. This has NOTHING to do with a new standard currency and nowhere does it even say that. Why are you posting this as if it has something to do with a new form of currency?]

 

 

"Sometimes it takes a crisis for people to agree that what is obvious and should have been done years ago, can no longer be postponed," Brown told an audience earlier today. [Casek, where on earth has brown EVER mention a new global currency standard??!! You are completely ignoring the fact that he is talking about financial regulation because you refuse to admit that you are wrong. You need to quote Brown saying that he supports a new global currency standard because that is what you said happened. ]

 

 

European Union President Nicholar Sarkozy and European Commission President J. M. Barroso are to travel to Washington to press for a sweeping overhaul of the Global financial system to include a blueprint for a Worldwide Currency System at a crunch meeting with George Bush at the weekend [1. Currency system is not a new standard, it is a new set of RULES. second, you need to show where Sarko said it, not some one speculation that he might.]

 

 

 

 

Once again, nowhere here have you provided evidence that the US, UK, France, EU, etc. have called for a new global standard.

 

You can call what I am saying as nonsense but I have repeatedly shown that your evidence is totally incorrect and you have not once shown us evidence of these countries calling for a new standard currency. Why can you not admit that?

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Here you go, even I can provide better evidence for your argument than you can!!

 

 

 

DPJ’s Nakagawa Says Japan Should Diversify Reserves (Update1)

 

 

By Keiko Ujikane and Kyoko Shimodoi

 

 

July 13 (Bloomberg) -- Japan’s opposition party, leading in polls two months ahead of elections, said the nation should consider shifting its $1 trillion of foreign reserves away from the dollar and buying International Monetary Fund bonds.

 

“In the medium to long term, we need to do what we can to avoid the risk of currency losses or economic turbulence that could result if the dollar were to swing,” Masaharu Nakagawa, the shadow finance minister in the Democratic Party of Japan, said in an interview in Tokyo on July 9. “Many countries are starting to diversify their reserves.”

 

Japanese investors are the biggest foreign holders of Treasuries after China with $685.9 billion of the securities in April, and Finance Kaoru Yosano said last month his trust in the bonds is “unshakable.” The DPJ beat the ruling Liberal Democratic Party to become the biggest party in Tokyo’s city assembly in elections yesterday, boosting its prospects ahead of national polls that must be called by Sept. 10.

 

“The current reality of Japan’s foreign-currency reserves is that their heavy weighting toward dollar assets means any fall in the dollar’s value leads to valuation losses,” said Susumu Kato, chief economist in Tokyo at Calyon Securities, the investment banking unit of Credit Agricole SA. “The DPJ is opposed to a foreign-currency reserve policy that is so wholly skewed to the dollar.”

 

The yen traded at 92.60 per dollar at 11:10 a.m. in Tokyo from 92.54 late July 10. It has gained 4 percent this month.

 

‘Unshakable’ Trust

 

Japanese investors are the biggest foreign holders of Treasuries after China with $685.9 billion of the securities in April, according to the U.S. Treasury Department. Finance Minister Kaoru Yosano said last month that his trust in Treasuries was “unshakable.”

 

Nakagawa said Japan should consider purchases of new bonds issued by the IMF that will pay an interest rate pegged to the fund’s basket of currencies -- the dollar, euro, yen and pound -- and known as Special Drawing Rights. The dollar is the principal component of SDRs. The IMF said this month it would issue bonds to its 186 members for the first time.

 

We should start considering that as an option,” Nakagawa said. “I am not saying we should do it right away. If everyone starts doing it all of sudden, it may sway the dollar.” He didn’t say Japan should sell any of its dollar holdings.

 

Challenge to Dollar

 

China, India, Brazil, Mexico and South Africa last week challenged the U.S. dollar as the primary denomination of world reserves. In China, whose foreign-exchange reserves probably topped $2 trillion for the first time in the three months to June 30, Premier Wen Jiabao this year said he was concerned that his nation’s dollar assets may decline as the U.S. sells record amounts of debt to fund stimulus spending.

 

Japan holds $1.02 trillion in foreign reserves, also the world’s largest after China’s. Losses on the holdings stood at about 21 trillion yen ($227 billion) at the end of May, according to the Finance Ministry’s estimate.

 

Nakagawa, 59, said Japan’s government should ask the U.S. to sell debt denominated in yen, so-called samurai bonds, as a way to diversify reserves and promote the globalization of the yen. Japan should also aim to strengthen the Chiang Mai Initiative, an Asia-wide foreign-reserve pool, and seek the creation of an Asian Monetary Fund, he said.

 

Nakagawa said intervening in the currency market to smooth abrupt and volatile moves is an option, though Japan shouldn’t try to push the yen up or down to achieve a prescribed level.

 

Currency Intervention

 

“If the yen were to appreciate or depreciate very steeply and the market becomes volatile, direct government intervention might be understandable,” Nakagawa said. “Intervention shouldn’t be used to strengthen or weaken it to a certain level.”

 

The yen has strengthened against all 16 of the world’s major currencies in the past year. A stronger yen hurts Japanese exporters by making their products less competitive. It also lowers import costs for companies and consumers.

 

Japan hasn’t stepped into the foreign-exchange market since 2004, when the central bank, under government instructions, spent a record 14.8 trillion yen to weaken the nation’s currency.

 

Nakagawa indicated that his party wouldn’t exert pressure on the Bank of Japan to keep interest rates low when policy makers try to raise borrowing costs.

 

“We wouldn’t put much pressure on the bank,” Nakagawa said. Japan’s central bank cut its overnight lending rate to 0.1 percent in December.

 

Aso may dissolve the lower house as early as tomorrow, the Yomiuri newspaper reported, without saying where it got the information. A total of 23 percent of voters said they would choose the LDP in the national election, less than the 41 percent who favor the DPJ, according to a Yomiuri poll published July 10.

 

The LDP has governed for all but 10 months since 1955. The DPJ already controls the upper house.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now this is different than what China and Russia is doing, they are literally calling for a NEW reserve currency that will be based on what are typically World Bank SDRs (valued off a group/basket of currencies that are said to give a more accurate reflection of the global economy and is not balanced on the prosperity of one singe economy like it is now. Makes economic sense but it will take years/decades to not only find the right ratio of currency strengths that strike a rational reflection and give teh standard the greatest strength against dips and a run on any one or group of national currencies. Also, be aware that even in this scenario, because the US is by far and above the leading currency it will have to make up a dominant share of the SDR/basket standard anyway).

 

What Japan is doing here is the same as what a number of other countries are doing. They are moving away from using the USD as their majority investment. Also be aware that most countries with trade and budget surpluses have been putting the vast majority of their forex and investment in to US T-bills, bonds and straight up cash. That is too little diversification and creates a vulnerability that was illustrated quite sharply when the US economy hit a snag from last August onwards.

 

Now as people diversify there will be a slowly added strength elsewhere than the USD. But as is written here by the Japs (also keep in mind that this was the opposition, not the LDP. But also, the LDP lost a by-election yesterday and I think Aso is about to call an August election. The LDP term runs out in August and they have to have an election by Oct. as per their constitution.).

 

This process stands a chance of altering the global currency distributions and over time stands more chance of changing the USD as the standard currency than either China or Russia does. Keep in mind that this change will take decades, possibly generations and will also face strong US competition.

 

Russia, China and I think also Brazil have already bought a big fucking chunk of the bonds issued by the World Bank.

 

 

Just a quick comment as well. where it says "China, India, Brazil, Mexico and South Africa last week challenged the U.S. dollar as the primary denomination of world reserves.", that DOES NOT mean they are arguing for a new global currency (As a matter of fact NO ONE IS ARGUING FOR A NEW GLOBAL CURRENCY. What China and Russia really want is that there is a new global STANDARD CURRENCY. That means exchange rates, investment and so on are based of something different than the US dollar. That's different than having a minted form of money that can be used in every country, that simply won't happen for the most obvious of reasons.

 

What these countries here were suggesting is that countries should diversify their RESERVES so that it is not only the US dollar that countries count on. For if the US does crash, that means the whole world goes with it. IF reserves are diversified then there is an added element of survivability in the global economy.

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Is there actually a debate here? A quick scan of crossfire, and I see nothing involving America's health care system and public retirement funding; yet we are worried about the stability of the dollar. I'd say priorities are off, perhaps?

 

Well maybe for you but not everybody here is a citizen of the US, mate.

 

The stability of the USD has a lot more to do with global stability than the US health or retirement funds. There is a whole world out there mate and the internet is global, just like the issue that we are discussing here.

 

And is there a debate here? Well um YES. It's about whether there is any possibility of a new global currency standard. Maybe you should try reading a little closer.

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Now here is what I was talking about when I referred to the utter strength of the USD over other major currencies. China is the third largest currency in the world yet it's economy is basically a massive lie no matter from which direction you look at it. The growth that is powered by both exports (largely to the US and EU) and irrational government debt and lending is not even as high/strong as it is purported to be. That again makes the US economy stronger in comparison.

 

Economists Wary of China's 'Manipulated' Statistics

 

Chosun Ilbo

 

Alleged manipulation of economic data by the Chinese government has emerged as a source of controversy among economists. At the center of the controversy is whether the Chinese government manipulated economic growth figures to match the country's official eight percent target for this year.

 

According to China's National Bureau of Statistics, electricity usage throughout the entire country during the first quarter of this year fell four percent compared to the same period last year, but GDP grew 6.1 percent and industrial output 5.1 percent over the same period.

 

In response, the China unit of Samsung Economic Research Institute issued a report on June 26 saying it is difficult to understand the increased difference between electricity use and GDP and industrial output, since China's industrial structure is still dominated by energy-intensive industries. The International Energy Agency also raised doubts about China's macroeconomic figures, pointing out that not only did the country's electricity usage fall, but its petroleum consumption shrank 3.5 percent during the first quarter.

 

Even economists working for state-run Chinese economic think tanks are raising doubts about the government figures after it announced that industrial output rose 8.9 percent in May while electricity use fell 3.55 percent. "Actual industrial output probably grew less than five percent," said Wang Jian, secretary general of the China Society of Macroeconomics. "It appears that regional governments submitted inflated figures." Yuan Gangming, a senior researcher at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, also said May's economic statistics were exaggerated, while actual industrial output is estimated to have grown zero percent.

 

The Chinese government countered these allegations, saying that the restructuring of China's industrial landscape led to the rapid growth of less energy-dependent industries.

 

But foreign economists are not willing to take China's words at face value. Reuters reported early this year that it is "conventional wisdom among China watchers" that the Chinese government is prone to manipulating statistics. "Experience has taught economists to take Chinese statistics with a pinch, if not a packet, of salt," the report said.

 

The Korea Trade-Investment Promotion Agency issued a report last Wednesday saying it would be impossible for China to unify its methods of compiling its economic data in a short period and advised against relying too heavily on such figures. He Qinglian, a visiting scholar at Princeton University, said, "The practice of manipulating economic data has become a part of the culture of Chinese politics, with the central government using it to appease public sentiment and to embellish the achievements of Communist Party members."

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Well maybe for you but not everybody here is a citizen of the US, mate.

 

The stability of the USD has a lot more to do with global stability than the US health or retirement funds. There is a whole world out there mate and the internet is global, just like the issue that we are discussing here.

 

And is there a debate here? Well um YES. It's about whether there is any possibility of a new global currency standard. Maybe you should try reading a little closer.

 

Haha, I'm aware. I made the debate comment sarcastically as I haven't seen a good counterpoint up until the Japanese article just posted (ironically posted by christof)

 

I brought up health care and social security because of their relation to US debt (and thus the dollar) and the possible reforms of these programs in the near future. I realize there are many factors that influence the dollar's stability, but I think those two issues would bear more fruitful discussion.

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Right, right. Sorry, I got you now.

 

Actually I am totally against having that discussion as I know nothing about it and would have to read other people's thoughts rather than blasting everyone with my own.

 

As much as Australia's welfare system has its faults and may be considered semi-socialist I am proud of it and it has helped me out before when I was injured and could not work.

 

 

In summary, there will be no new global standard currency for decades, decades I say!!! :D :D :D

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I want to track down to what Geitner is specifically referring to when he singles out France. It could be contained in what Casek posted earlier on megaupload a I have not viewed it yet. I'd like to see the full context of what Sarko said, where he said it (was it a response to a reporter's question, was it in a press conference called by himself, was it in a newspaper interview, was said in a speech in parliament as a matter of official policy, etc.) and I'd like to see if there was any objections to this made by members of his own party/coalition. Either way, it is interesting but as you can see the US will not want this to happen and will fight against it as much as it can.

 

 

Geithner committed to strong dollar as reserve currency

 

NEW YORK, July 12 (AFP) Jul 12, 2009

US Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner said Sunday he is not concerned that the US dollar is weakening as a reserve currency, despite recent criticisms from China, Russia and France.

"I actually don't worry about that," Geithner said in an interview on CNN.

 

"In part because if you just look at the response of the world as we go through this period of time, when people are most concerned about risk, generally they want to be investing in the most liquid, safest market," he said.

 

"You've seen that pattern consistently over the period of time and we want to make sure we can sustain that basic response," the Treasury secretary said, adding he would continue to work towards keeping the dollar strong.

 

"A strong dollar is in the interest of the United States," Geithner said, "and our commitment is the world, and of course, the American people, is to make sure we'll put in place the policies that can sustain confidence in this economy and this financial system."

 

Geithner's comments come as France joined a chorus of other countries critical of the dollar's dominance over other currencies, with President Nicholas Sarkozy saying Thursday that a "multipolar world must be a multicurrency world."

 

Sarkozy is the first European leader to join with China and Russia, who have called for a new international reserve currency similar to the Special Drawing Rights -- an artifical currency used by the International Monetary Fund.

 

Chinese State Counselor Dai Bingguo, speaking at this week's G8 summit, said the international community should "promote an international monetary system that is more diverse and reasonable."

 

But Geithner emphasized that China must play a role in the rebalancing of the global economy by pushing domestic consumption.

 

Previewing an economic and strategic dialogue with China scheduled to take place in two weeks time in Washington, Geithner said the United States would call for "a common framework."

 

So, when "we raise our savings in the United States, which is necessary, and it is already happening in a significant scale, that the world as a whole adjust to that new reality and put themselves on a path where you're going to see stronger domestic demand growth in those countries," he said.

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