Survivalist, Self Sustainable Lifestyles or Whatevs....

[Dawood]

So whats wrong with Indonesions taking over Australia anyway?

[Dawood]

yeah, what he said^^^^^^

 

edit for double post

[KaBar2]

Well, White Ox? Since you live there, perhaps you have an opinion? Australia has undergone dramatic social and demographic changes since 1965, when they opened the gates to non-white immigration. Prior to 1965, of course, Australia had very liberal immigration policies for Europeans, especially well-educated Europeans, and very restrictive policies for any would-be immigrants from Asia, Africa or Latin America. Millions of Asians of various nationalities have moved to Australia, which has dramatically changed the normal, day-to-day life of the country.

 

So what would be the problem with Indonesia taking over Australia, anyway? I mean, Australians seem to be getting more and more spineless by the minute, and the Indonesians definately know what they want---LAND. Specifically, Australian land.

[Dawood]

I have a question, Does anyone here know much about the benefits of collecting gold. (as opposed to saving money).

I have been thinking a lot about this lately and what about the fluctuation of the value of gold.

 

There is probably already a lot of info. on this somewhere here, but I don't have time to look for it.

[Krakatau]

Originally posted by Dawood@Nov 16 2005, 06:18 PM

I have a question, Does anyone here know much about the benefits of collecting gold. (as opposed to saving money).

I have been thinking a lot about this lately and what about the fluctuation of the value of gold.

 

There is probably already a lot of info. on this somewhere here, but I don't have time to look for it.

Quoted post

Buy low, sell high.

Then invest your profits in China.

[dumy]

Originally posted by KaBar2@Sep 28 2005, 12:32 PM

Well, White Ox? Since you live there, perhaps you have an opinion? Australia has undergone dramatic social and demographic changes since 1965, when they opened the gates to non-white immigration. Prior to 1965, of course, Australia had very liberal immigration policies for Europeans, especially well-educated Europeans, and very restrictive policies for any would-be immigrants from Asia, Africa or Latin America. Millions of Asians of various nationalities have moved to Australia, which has dramatically changed the normal, day-to-day life of the country.

 

So what would be the problem with Indonesia taking over Australia, anyway? I mean, Australians seem to be getting more and more spineless by the minute, and the Indonesians definately know what they want---LAND. Specifically, Australian land.

Quoted post

 

 

haha..don't let them take the land from the white people...just like the white people did to the aborigines..I mean that would be "wrong"..

haha..kabar you crack me up sometimes..

[Krakatau]

Originally posted by dumy@Nov 16 2005, 07:23 PM

haha..don't let them take the land from the white people...just like the white people did to the aborigines..I mean that would be "wrong"..

haha..kabar you crack me up sometimes..

Quoted post

No, for real, DON'T. Fuck whether it is right or wrong as far as people are concerned, I would rather not see it happen on account of the ecosystem in Australia. New people never improve the situation for native flora and fauna. Ever.

 

And why the fuck is it a white people issue? ALL of us suck, not just the white ones.

[dumy]

dude, i'm just going off of the tone of the convo started by Kabar..dont' get your panties in a bunch..i'm just saying there was no uproar when the ORIGINAL inhabitants of australia were uprooted when the europeans came..so why now..

[Krakatau]

Originally posted by dumy@Nov 16 2005, 07:35 PM

dude, i'm just going off of the tone of the convo started by Kabar..dont' get your panties in a bunch..i'm just saying there was no uproar when the ORIGINAL inhabitants of australia were uprooted when the europeans came..so why now..

Quoted post

Because we weren't a 'global community' back then. Because race issues were insanely fucked up ala 'Europeans are the master race' (which is really only unique in consideration of the fact that they could back up that illusion with wholesale slaughter).

 

Because two wrongs don't make a right?

Because Australian ladies are almost always foxes?

Because kangaroos are cool, and Indonesians don't eat cane toads.

 

I think I'm getting the flu.

Fuckin' H5N1.

[Dawood]

Originally posted by Krakatau+Nov 17 2005, 12:23 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Krakatau - Nov 17 2005, 12:23 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Dawood@Nov 16 2005, 06:18 PM

I have a question,  Does anyone here know much about the benefits of collecting gold. (as opposed to saving money).

I have been thinking a lot about this lately and what about the fluctuation of the value of gold.

 

There is probably already a lot of info. on this somewhere here, but I don't have time to look for it.

Quoted post

Buy low, sell high.

Then invest your profits in China.

Quoted post

[/b]

 

obviously buy low, sell high, but does anybody have any information on the value of the dollar and it's likelyhood of dropping as opposed to gold. Some history or in depth discussions would be nice.

[Krakatau]

Originally posted by Dawood+Nov 16 2005, 08:58 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dawood - Nov 16 2005, 08:58 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>

Originally posted by Krakatau@Nov 17 2005, 12:23 AM

<!--QuoteBegin-Dawood@Nov 16 2005, 06:18 PM

I have a question, Does anyone here know much about the benefits of collecting gold. (as opposed to saving money).

I have been thinking a lot about this lately and what about the fluctuation of the value of gold.

 

There is probably already a lot of info. on this somewhere here, but I don't have time to look for it.

Quoted post

Buy low, sell high.

Then invest your profits in China.

Quoted post

 

obviously buy low, sell high, but does anybody have any information on the value of the dollar and it's likelyhood of dropping as opposed to gold. Some history or in depth discussions would be nice.

Quoted post

[/b]

How about I invest thirty seconds and do a google search on it?

Gold 101

Twice even.

[Dawood]

thanks smart ass.

[Krakatau]

Originally posted by Dawood@Nov 16 2005, 09:28 PM

thanks smart ass.

Quoted post

No problem, dumbass.

[John Birch]

I'll just add that gold is not a good investment... back in the old days when currency was linked to gold, it was a stable, safe investment. But now its just another metal..And a plentiful one at that. Some of the metals used to make computers are a better investment. But Dawood, if you want a safe, secure investment, get US governement bonds. The whole stability of the world economy is based on them, so nobody, including china or al quida or even north korea, would do anything to fuck with that....

[Dawood]

Ha, HA, What happens when the US govt. collapses and Jesus (peace be upon him) comes back to lead the people

and kill the antichrist and wage war against his followers?

[John Birch]

to quote professor griff: "pass the ammo"

[Herbivore]

Originally posted by Dawood@Nov 17 2005, 09:53 PM

Ha, HA, What happens when the US govt. collapses and Jesus (peace be upon him) comes back to lead the people

and kill the antichrist and wage war against his followers?

Quoted post

here we go............

[Dawood]

Originally posted by Herbivore+Nov 18 2005, 10:18 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Herbivore - Nov 18 2005, 10:18 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Dawood@Nov 17 2005, 09:53 PM

Ha, HA, What happens when the US govt. collapses and Jesus (peace be upon him) comes back to lead the people

and kill the antichrist and wage war against his followers?

Quoted post

here we go............

Quoted post

[/b]

 

Nah, I was just playing, It was just a hypothetical question Don't respond to it, he he

[yum]

so muslims believe that whole secodn coming with jesus thing as well?

 

hahaha i like it calling the australian government liberal and leftist or whatever it was kabar, although the leading party of Australia at the moment is called the 'liberals' their actually policies are nothing like that

 

most of you probably dont know but AUstralia is currently having our own little 'patriot act' to combat the apparent threat of terrorism thaty we keep hearign about. and the national government is also passign legislation that pretty much destroys the industrial relations system, so now we can all be wage slaves with no job security and a lwoer minimum wage rate, hurray

[Guest KING BLING]

Originally posted by yum@Nov 18 2005, 11:42 PM

 

most of you probably dont know but AUstralia is currently having our own little 'patriot act' to combat the apparent threat of terrorism thaty we keep hearign about. and the national government is also passign legislation that pretty much destroys the industrial relations system, so now we can all be wage slaves with no job security and a lwoer minimum wage rate, hurray

Quoted post

 

 

How dare you talk about our partner in the Coalition of the Willing?!?!?!?

 

You clearly are not willing to fight for freedom by restricting your speech, freedom and cut social protections as we fight those who would take them away from us...wait...

[Milton]

Kabar, quick question.

 

I'm thinking of buying a decent rifle with a scope. I'm thinking about a 30'06 but is there anything else I should be considering for a simple powerful rifle with a good range?

[KaBar2]

Originally posted by Milton@Nov 19 2005, 09:25 AM

Kabar, quick question.

 

I'm thinking of buying a decent rifle with a scope. I'm thinking about a 30'06 but is there anything else I should be considering for a simple powerful rifle with a good range?

Quoted post

 

Milt, you aren't just "rattling my cage" are ya? LOL.

 

Yeah, there are a number of things to consider, depending upon your point of view. But the number one consideration is "What do you expect you are going to use the rifle for?"

 

A .30-'06 rifle shoots a very powerful cartridge, capable at effectively killing large game at 500+ yards. Snipers have used the .30-'06 to take targets at ranges of over 1,500 yards. If what you want is a "heavy caliber" hunting rifle, good for any North American game, the .30-'06 is it. If you intend to hunt moose or elk, I'd choose a .338 Winchester Magnum, but I wouldn't hesitate to use a .30-'06 even for a moose. (Gotta be honest though, although I hunted elk, I never got one. But up north in Washington State, we often ate elk that my father-in-law shot. He's a very good hunter.)

 

However, the military uses the 7.62mm NATO cartridge for sniping. It is also the standard machine-gun round for the U.S. military, so there will ALWAYS be plenty of 7.62mm NATO ammo around. It's power and range are very close to the .30-'06, in fact it is a shortened .30-'06 cartridge. This cartridge was called the .308 Winchester when it was first developed. A good deer rifle with a scope in .308 Winchester would be an excellent choice.

You should spend as much on the SCOPE as you do on the RIFLE. There are many fine rifle scopes available. Top choices would include Zeiss, Swarovski, Nikon, Leupold, Shepherd and so on. Good quality would be Weaver, Burris, Bushnell, IOR, Tasco, BSA, and Simmons. You can pay $2,000 fora scope (Zeiss, Swarovski) or you can pay $49 (Simmons.) YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. If you buy a $400 deer rifle, put a $400 scope on it. Top grade rifles demand a top-grade scope.

 

If you are talking about a semi-automatic "battle rifle," that's a different consideration. The number one consideration for a battle rifle is reliability. Number two is durability. Number three is logistics resupply (ammunition.) Number four is cost-per-unit (if you are arming a group, like "all the men in your family," or "everybody in my neighborhood."

 

There is nothing wrong with a bolt-action rifle. If you think you are going to be hunting for survival, a good scoped rifle would be valuable, but a 12 gauge shotgun and a good, solid .22 with a scope would make more sense. In a survival situation, you want LOTS OF AMMUNITION. Like, thousands and thousands of rounds. Who knows if you will ever be able to buy ammunition again? That pushes me towards a .22 for small-game hunting and a 12 gauge pump for birds and SELF-DEFENSE. That 12 gauge will be a FORMIDABLE self-defense weapon, no shit. But it is not long-range, maybe 50 yards, max. Shotguns are very, very versatile. Stockpile lots of different shells for it: bird shot for birds (#6's, #8's) buck shot for larger game ("00" or "000" for deer and people, "slugs" for deer and door-busting. Shoot the locking mechanism, but be aware, that slug will go right through anybody on the other side of that door.)

 

However, the most logical choice for a survival rifle is a so-called "assault rifle." They are all proven, battle-tested designs. They allow you to maintain a sustained rate of suppressive fire (to keep the bad guys heads down) while either you retreat, or your friends manuver to get the bad guys in a crossfire. Assault rifle ammunition is plenty powerful enough with which to hunt any North American game other than moose or elk. (Most states have a limit of five rounds magazine capacity for regular hunting, however in a survival situation, I doubt any game wardens are going to be around.) Ammunition is relatively inexpensive if purchased in "case lots" (1,000 rounds.) They can be equipped with a scope easily.

 

The cheaperest, strongest, most reliable assault rifle commonly available in the U.S. is the 7.62x39mm AK series. The 7.62x39mm round is plenty powerful enough to take deer (it has about the same lethality and knock-down power as the venerable old .30-30, a favorite deer rifle for over 100 years) and it is an excellent battle rifle. Ammo is plentiful and cheap.

 

If you are really broke, buy an SKS. They have a 10-round, non-detachable magazine, but you can get them wholesale for $79. And they shoot the same cartridge as an AK: 7.62x39mm (seven point six two by thirty-nine millimeter.)

 

Another excellent choice would be the Ruger Mini-Thirty.

 

Next choice, for me, would be the AR15 series. You can build one from a kit for about $550 to $600. They aren't as robust and strong as the AK, but they are excellent rifles and the aftermarket accessories supply is phenomenal. The civilian .223 (two twenty-three)cartridge and the military 5.56mm (five point five six) cartridge are very close, but not exactly the same. (The differences between the two are a matter of a couple of thousandths of an inch in length.) However, a military barrel, which has looser tolerances, will shoot both with no problem. Some civilian barrels, especially "Match" barrels, will not handle the slightly larger 5.56mm cartridges.

 

The 5.56mm round has gone through a series of changes, from the 55-grain M193 (Vietnam-era) to the 62-grain M855 (late-80's/'90s) to the modern military 77-grain MK262 MOD1. The most common commercial loadings available these days are loaded with 55-grain and 62-grain bullets. The type of rifling in the barrel makes a big difference in accuracy, depending on which loading you use, however, if you buy a rifle with 1:9 twist, you should be able to shoot both with no problem. If you buy an older rifle with the Vietnam-era 1:7 rifling, it is designed to shoot the lighter 55-grain bullets (M193.) If you choose a newer rifle with 1:10 rifling, it is designed to shoot the mid-range, 62-grain bullets. It will shoot 55-grain bullets safely, but they will not shoot accurately. They will print larger groups and many "keyholes" on the target, indicating unstable bullets that tumbled or turned sideways. (This will make very little difference to an enemy target, however. If he gets hit, he's going to be FUCKED UP BAD either way.) But accuracy is highly desireable, although much less important than RELIABILITY in a combat rifle.

 

Another good choice (and cheaper) would be the Ruger Mini-14, also in .223. The Mini-14 will also shoot 5.56mm bullets, but it likes the lighter 55-grain bullets too.

 

That brings us to the larger, serious-ass-business 7.62mm NATO cartridge. This is virtually the same as the .308 Winchester cartridge, an excellent deer round. There are numerous 7.62mm NATO rifles around and they are all great. The M1A manufactured by Springfield Armory, Inc., is the civilian copy of the classic M14 military rifle. They are quite expensive ($1300), but think of it as buying the Rolls-Royce of military rifles. They take a 20-round detachable box magazine, and are the choice par excellance of the U.S. High Power Rifle shooters. They are also used as designated marksman rifles in the Army and in some Navy and Marine Corps units. (The snipers use a much more expensive bolt-action rifle. In the Marines, they use the M40A1, derived from the Remington 700 heavy-barrel varmint rifle.)

 

The Heckler & Kock HK91 is an excellent 7.62mm NATO combat rifle. So is the FN/FAL group. And there are several others.

 

So. Like I said, "What do you intend to use it for?" Small-game survival hunting? Self-defense? Serious combat? Long-distance, precision shots? Once you decide on the principal task and determine your budget, then you pick the rifle.

 

For all-around survival and self-defense, on the cheap, it's had to beat an SKS or an AK. For home defense, a good 12 gauge pump shotgun. I recommend either the Remington 870 or Mossberg 500.

 

Sorry about the LONG post. It's a big subject.

[John Birch]

^^^^^

 

homie here knows more about guns that I know about drugs and women...

[Milton]

KaBar,

 

Thanks, I appreciate all of the info. When I got my hunting license the guy in the class was very excited about the 30'06 so I assumed it would be the best for small game hunting and perhaps if worse came to worse some sort of protection if I had to hunker down. I guess you're right about capacity though, it's basically a one-round-at-a-time kind of deal. I need to consider if I'm going for long range accuracy or versatility, but I suppose in an urban environment long range does little or no good. It seems like the 30'06 would be really reliable due to the few moving parts.

 

Where do I get slug rounds for a 12 gauge? I have looked at most of the sporting goods places around by they only go up to 00. Also, is the Browning BPS any good or should I trade it in for something else.

 

Finally, I think if the shit ever went down I'd probably just hole up in my apartment and wait. But I was thinking about trading my car in for an SUV. I've heard the old Range Rover Countrys are built like tanks, is this true? Is there something else that has crossover utility from a daily driver to a "get the fuck out of dodge-er?"

[Dick Quickwood]

i need your expert advice kabar. is shooting small things like rabbits with slugs as fun as it sounds? blaow! splatter

[lost_case]

cool sites....

 

 

http://www.aussurvivalist.com/forum

 

http://www.thecombattriad.net

 

http://www.americanminuteman.net/forums/

 

http://www.survivalforum.com

 

:chicken:

[KaBar2]

Arcel---

 

Well, shooting rabbits is fun and all, but I wouldn't use a shotgun and a deer slug. No challenge. Better to use something like a .22-250 at a real long range, maybe 300 or 400 yards. The only problem is that rabbits are too nervous. They are always hopping around, grooming each other, making cute little rabbit sounds to the pups and so on.

 

What you need is a good, well populated PRAIRIE DOG TOWN. Oh, man, that's the best.

Prairie dogs breed way faster than rabbits, so one good prairie dog town will provide weeks of fun. They are so cute when they pop their heads up to check out what's happening before they come up. They stand up, rock rigid still, sniffing the air and listening. Cool thing is though, rifle bullets travel way faster than sound, so if they don't see the muzzle flash and get spooked, they're standing there stock still when a spire-point, hollow-point, jacketed boattail .22-250 varmint bullet goes through them at like 4,000 feet per second. "POW!" The prairie dog just vaporizes into particles of prairie dog mist. The cool thing is, the next prairie dog can't figure out what happened, so he just comes up and does the same thing again. Just about the same time as you work the bolt and draw a bead on the prairie dog hole again, up pops another target. Since you are several hundred yards away, they never hear the shot! Cool, huh? I thought you'd dig it. Prairie dogs are loads of fun, kind of like chipmunks, only cuter and more trusting. The only bummer is that they aren't on the Endangered Species List, but how long can that go on? Pretty soon, they will be!

 

There's nothing quite as villainously pointless as using a thousand dollar high-powered rifle equipped with a extremely expensive German telescopic sight to explode completely harmless creatures at long range for absolutely no discernable purpose whatsoever other than just pure wanton destructiveness. But if you're bored, what the fuck. Why not?

 

Oh, yeah, and as an added bonus, after your 4,000 fps bullet vaporizes the prairie dog, it continues on downrange several hundred more yards, skipping off rocks and shit till it finally hits a birdwatcher or somebody's Lassie-like border collie. You know, it's like a two-fer.

[tsuifuku]

KaBar, i am curious as to your opinion on russian POSP scopes, are they only good for SKS/AK/SVD guns, or would you put one on a quality bolt action?

[KaBar2]

Originally posted by tsuifuku@Nov 28 2005, 05:34 AM

KaBar, i am curious as to your opinion on russian POSP scopes, are they only good for SKS/AK/SVD guns, or would you put one on a quality bolt action?

Quoted post

 

tsuifuku---

 

I have never owned a PSOP scope. They are supposed to be pretty good scopes. You can get one wholesale in Shotgun News for about $150. Since "Soviet" gear is usually underpriced by American standards, a $150 Russian or East German scope should be a pretty good piece of gear.

The only one I've ever seen had military range reticles for judging windage and elevation for "Kentucky windage" sniper shots. I don't know if they all have that or not.

 

I'm guessing that PSOP scopes are designed for the SVD sniper rifle, which shoots the older 7.62x54R cartridge. This cartridge is roughly equivalent to the U.S. .30-'06, the German 8mm Mauser and the British .303. Therefore, as long as you were mounting it over an action firing a cartridge somewhat close to the 7.62x54R cartridge, it ought to be useable. My concern would be the high magnification. An 8x42 power scope is pretty darn powerful for hunting. It would make a great long distance rifle though. I have a .30-'06 with a 6x18 mounted (much less powerful than the 8x42, but still a lot more scope than a 3x9) and even my 6x18 causes the crosshairs to rise and fall on the target FROM MY HEARTBEAT. An 8x42 power scope would necessitate a very solid shooting position, I would think. If you try it out, let me know how it works, please.

[Dick Quickwood]

my brother shot this rabbit once, it went through its neck, and the rabbit literally bounced around like a rubber ball, two or three feet in the air. i nearly peed & shit myself laughing. it must have hit the trachea i guess.