Survivalist, Self Sustainable Lifestyles or Whatevs....

[villain]

Originally posted by theGOON@Jul 5 2005, 09:52 PM

sort of a sidenote, tangent...

 

Kabar--i was under the impression that damascus/syrian steel was the strongest, (specifically for blades.) why is this different for guns? (mentioned during "old shotgun post")

Quoted post

 

 

That is an interesting question, considering that folded steel produced some of the strongest samurai blades in history. I'm going to venture a guess that it makes the steel flexible, which wouldn't be suitable for firearms.

 

The Japanese recently invented a technique for molding steel which produces the strongest steel to date. It's called cold rolling steel. The process involves freezing the steel which has something of the effect of crystallizing it's molecules, and a tight crystalline structure is very durable. Quite interesting. I wonder how many applications that technique has made it into so far.

 

From a websearch I just did apparently quite a few products. Here's something related to the process from howstuffworks.

http://home.howstuffworks.com/question196.htm

[KaBar2]

Goon---I don't know much about swordmaking or the type of steel from which swords are made. A "Damascus twist" barrel is actually made out of a type of high carbon wire, I think, which is forged around a mandrel and hammered one way or another until it is "forge welded" together, I think. These shotgun barrels were for shotguns that fired BLACK POWDER shells, much, much less powerful than modern smokeless powder shells. Since the .410 wasn't invented until quite a time after the era of black powder cartridges, I would be astounded if anybody turned up a Damascus-twist-barrelled .410 shotgun. At least, that's what I think.

 

The problem with Damascus twist barrels is that they are made from a type of iron, rather than steel. How this relates to Damascus steel swords, I have no idea. One of you young sword fanciers, please give us a clue. My inclination is to think that despite the similarity in name, the two steels are not the same at all.

[tsuifuku]

On a side note, detachable magazines for the sks are probably one of the worst inventions ever.

[KaBar2]

Originally posted by tsuifuku@Jul 7 2005, 02:36 AM

On a side note, detachable magazines for the sks are probably one of the worst inventions ever.

Quoted post

 

Actually, I agree with you. Detachable box magazines are great, but the SKS was designed to have a 10-round semi-detachable magazine. It was the Soviet answer to the U.S. M1 Garand. We had many members of the Texas militia who could not afford an AR-15 or a MAK-90, and who chose to buy one of the shorter, "paratrooper" SKS rifles, which has a 16" barrel, rather than the full-length standard barrel. Since bayonets are not too useful, and they add weight, these guys usually dismounted the folding bayonet on their Paratrooper SKS.

The SKS is loaded with 10-round stripper clips. These guys normally carried a shoulder bag full of full stripper clips, and could mount a sustained rate of fire only slightly less effective than someone shooting an MAK-90. The other group that trained with SKS's were teenaged volunteers. Many militia members had purchased extra rifles (at $99 apiece, they were very affordable in 1994-95) and cases of steel-cased Chinese 7.62x39mm ammunition. When we had a teenaged visitor who did not own his own rifle (many of them already owned a deer rifle or a shotgun) we usually loaned him an SKS.

The only drawback that I could see was that the 7.62x39mm blank ammunition was extremely loud, and it disturbed nearby neighbors of our training area. The 5.56mm blanks were much quieter. We used Canadian "theatrical" 5.56mm blanks, they are a lot louder than U.S. military blanks, but still not as loud as the 7.62x39mm blanks.

 

The other main drawback of firearms not chambered for "NATO" cartridges is ammunition supply. In a genuine disaster, eventually ammunition is going to begin to dry up. Weapons chambered for U.S. military cartridges (5.56mm, 7.62mm NATO and 9mm Parabellum) are always going to be easier to supply with ammunition than weapons chambered for cartridges in service with foreign nations. If I lived in Russia, I would be advocating we all buy rifles chambered for the CURRENT Russian Army cartridge, the 5.45x39mm round. The Russians developed this cartridge during the early 1970's as an answer to the U.S. 5.56mm, and in 1974 they introduced a new rifle to go along with it, the AK-74. 7.62x39mm is an outdated cartridge in Russia, and the AK-47 is only in service with third-line reserve units (sort of like the U.S. National Guard.) The 5.45X39mm is very similar to the 5.56mm.

[lennydykstra]

You're all fucking nuts

 

ohh and what's that story about the little animal running around saying the sky is falling?

[angelofdeath]

i would personally take an m1 over an sks anyday. i hate those stripper clips. however price is a factor. if we talking wood sticks, i personally like the m1a/m14 style guns over the old top feeding actions. im not that big of a guy, and cannot fire a .308 chambered gun more than 50 or so rounds and stand much more. the 762x39 round is much lighter compared to the 762x51 (308) round.

 

i would like to see what everyones consensus on the following are:

 

5.56mm vs 7.62.mm nato rounds- 5.56 more ammo for the weight, 7.62 longer range more stopping power. hard to control in bursts or rapid fire.

 

keeping mags loaded.

how fast does it take for the springs to really wear to warrant a bad feed? i keep the mags for my 1911 loaded minus 2 rounds. keep 5 loaded, 5 not, then alternate once a month. im usually shooting every week or 2

[tsuifuku]

^ depends on where you are at,

in a city i'd probably go with 5.56, in a open area, 7.62 nato

[KaBar2]

Good advice, I agree. The U.S. went with 5.56mm so that the troops in Vietnam could carry more rounds in a combat load of the same weight. The enemy in Vietnam was not wearing body armor, combat was generally not in built-up areas, and the combat ranges were pretty short, so 5.56mm seemed like a good idea.

 

However--after having fired and repaired a zillion M16's in the Marine Corps, I am not a fan of the 5.56mm. 7.62mm NATO is a MUCH more substantial round. Longer range, much more accurate, especially in inclement weather, MUCH better penetration through obstacles. In urban warfare, the big disadvantage of the 7.62mm NATO is that most of the rifles that shoot it are full battle rifles, so they are kind of long and somewhat awkward.

 

I wish the U.S. military would adopt a cartridge closer to the 6.8mm or the 7.62x39mm rounds. The 5.56mm is too light, and the M16/M4 is nothing but a "poodle shooter." It is too delicate and too insubstantial to suit me. The fucking M16 will break if you just look at it too hard. That's no combat rifle.

[imported_grim540]

it's 3am and i need to sleep, but I just found this thread and it is something that I somehow unconsciously have been preparing for for over the last ten years...

 

just a few quick things, till I can add more (I skimmed through this so if I repeat something just bitch at me later)

 

Take a look at the world we live in and then think of the shape we will be in in the next fifteen years.

 

Everyone should at least invest in a good ceramic(sp)? water filter, short of having a still a good filter is one of the best things you can have and it is also portable. The only thing you have to worry about is germs and a good fire and boil can solve that problem.

 

and as for renewable energy, just about every state offers subsides and tax breaks for people who want to invest in renewable energy, so if you spend $28,000 to fit your house with solar panels, solar water heating, a wind turbine in the back yard and a good battery bank to store the excess energy(not including what the power company HAS to buy back from you) the state of virginia will most likely cut you a check for $25,000

 

as for other stuff ... jsut watch red dawn and you can kind of figure the rest out.

[serum]

^

stuff like that is what im interested in reading about. you can actually get money for installing solar panels?? if thats true thats pretty cool.

 

this crap about guns however :huh2:

[villain]

Yeah it is true that some states will give you tax breaks or something of that nature for installing renewable energy.

I'm a little skeptical about the ceramic microfilters because I'm not sure how long they would last, whether or not they can be cleaned, or if the filters need to be replaced altogther. That's why I'm leaning towards distillation.

 

As for the 7.62 vs the 5.56 I'm going to have to go with the 7.62. 5.56 has very little stopping power, but it's loud as shit for some reason. Not only that but the m-16 has soooo many little parts, and if you get so much as a grain of sand in there the damn thing will jam. You will spend half your life just cleaning this thing. The only good thing I can think of about it is I find it somewhat more accurate. My ak I can fire a near infinite amount of rounds through it without a jam, I can roll around in mud, dirt and sand and have no jams, and the thing will shoot through damn near anything. I know soldiers who carry aks as well as m-16s or m-4s with them and in a tight situation instinctively grab the ak.

 

Edit for PAGE 2!

Wow... this is the first thread I made that survived to page two.

[angelofdeath]

word, i think each has their place. the ar's are good for close up. the m14 style is coming back from what i hear over in "hot sandy places." accuracy is another thing. you can sometimes get .25 moa out of a stock bushmaster. no one will guarantee a m1a hardly under 1 moa. and your paying upwards of 3000$ to get one guaranteed 1/2moa.

i think the springfield socom 16 is sort of a happy medium. its a real round compared to the 5.56, is just as maneuverable as an ar, and its not some flat ass round like a 762x39.

 

eh just my 2 cents.

[KaBar2]

Which brings us back to LOGISTICS. It is a wise idea to arm yourself with the exact same weapon that the Government uses. Soldiers being who they are, you'll always be able to score a few magazines of rounds for something to smoke or drink. I think half the PRC-25 radios carried by the NLF in Vietnam came straight from the black market for stolen military equipment in Da Nang.

 

In regards to a sustainable energy house, if you are the only guy with lights in a neighborhood full of pissed-off, hungry, thirsty people who refused to prepare for disaster, how long do you suppose it will be before some entitled asshole shows up at your front door with his family and starts demanding food and a place to sleep? If you give in to even one guy, "your" food now becomes "our" food.

 

During Hurricane Andrew in Florida, some people went THREE WEEKS with no power, no city water, no food supplies and no cops. They were barricading their streets with debris and mounting armed citizen's defense patrols for WEEKS before the cops showed up. Don't you remember the photographs of the spray-painted, 4x8 plywood signs--"LOOTERS WILL BE SHOT!" from Hurricane Andrew?

 

And then when "help" arrived, the camps of the itinerant, out-of-state construction workers were more violent and anarchic than Dodge City. The cops just sealed them off at night and listened to all the drunken carousing and gunfire.

 

"Two-legged predators," remember?

[imported_grim540]

Originally posted by serum+Jul 8 2005, 03:14 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (serum - Jul 8 2005, 03:14 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>^

stuff like that is what im interested in reading about. you can actually get money for installing solar panels?? if thats true thats pretty cool.

 

Quoted post

[/b]

 

Do your research in your state to find out what they offer, we are planning to start a eletrical contracting bussiness here soon specializing in installing renewable energy products, because demand for this on the next few years will be skyrocketing.

 

<!--QuoteBegin-villain@Jul 8 2005, 08:43 AM

Yeah it is true that some states will give you tax breaks or something of that nature for installing renewable energy.

I'm a little skeptical about the ceramic microfilters because I'm not sure how long they would last, whether or not they can be cleaned, or if the filters need to be replaced altogther. That's why I'm leaning towards distillation.

 

Quoted post

 

I have had my katadyn filter for over twelve years, and it still works as good as it did the first time I used it, and it still has the same filter that came with it, as for cleaning, I think though, that they kind of had a planned obselesence idea, because the cleaning brush they included would make your filter useless and unsafe for filtration in less than a year if used regularly. The brush was too abrasive and wore down the filter to quickly and it didn't clean the filter any better than a brillo pad would, which is what I have been using on it. The key to keeping your filter in good shape does depend on taking care of it though, if you don't clean your filter and flush it soon after using it, mold and bacteria can florish in all the crud that clollects on the surface of the filter.

 

You are right though, it doesn't compare to a still, but sometimes you may not be in a situation where a still is available, and other methods of collecting safe drinking water are not available.

 

As for guns, if you haven't looked into it, reloading is not only a good idea but it also saves you alot of money on ammunition.

[KaBar2]

I definately agree on the reloading thing. My favorite reloading press is the RCBS Rock Chucker, but there are a lot of good ones out there. If one reloads, one must follow the reloading instructions EXACTLY. Monkeying around with the reloading data is for people who want to be known as "Stumpy." I knew an old gunsmith that blew up a pistol once by accident. It was a .38 Special pistol, and he apparently double-charged a case and failed to notice. When he fired that cartridge, the cylinder exploded, and he lost several fingers on his right hand and his left eye. Every time I went into his shop, I was reminded of the fact that an instant's carelessness can lead to a lifetime of regret. If you reload, you must be METICULOUSLY CAREFUL ABOUT PROCEDURE. Visually check EVERY SINGLE CASE before seating the bullet. Weigh every fifth or tenth charge, to make SURE that your charger is throwing accurate charges. Never, ever "guess." It's either "correct," or it's "wrong."

 

Up the stack we mentioned pressure cookers. We have a Presto brand "Preservation 800". It holds 23 quarts and has a dial gauge. It's a great pressure cooker. My wife has canned hundreds of quarts of fruit and vegetables. She even cans meat once in a while. A friend of mine owns an "American" brand pressure cooker. They're even better, because they don't use rubber seals at all, just metal-to-metal with screw-down clamps.

A 23 quart pressure cooker is probably not necessary, but when my wife cans fruits or veggies, she wants to put up like fifty quarts at a time. There are books to tell you how to do it. Trust me, a "hot water" canner will NOT DO THE JOB. You want a pressure canner with a gauge, ONLY. Also, in a pinch, you could sterilize instruments or bandages in a pressure cooker, just like an autoclave in a hospital. Some low budget tattoo shops use a small pressure cooker to sterilize needles, needle bars, tat machine barrels and ink.

[villain]

Because mosquitos are a bitch when your in the bushes, get ExtremeHammock© to cover your tushes!

 

 

Thanks to <Key3> for the inspiration for this post.

[mr.yuck]

I think the most viable threat to, I'll call it, the way of American life is China. They have the worlds largest work force and when they get their act together in the next 30 years, I can see the downward spiral of America. America is fast becoming, or has become a service based economy. We can not survive on that alone. I dont think that America will ever crash into total anarchy where people live in bunkers and shoot it out with people all day but I do think that middle class America will be no more. You will have a large gap between the poor and the filthy rich much like what happend when the stock market crashed back in the early 1900's. I for one believe that the best thing to do is save as much money as you can put aside and when the time comes when the dollar starts slipping, invest in a strong currency to protect the value of your money. Even better the thought comes to mind of investing right now in Chinese money while it is low and when the power transfer changes you will be sitting in a very nice position.

 

Of course it never hurts to be prepared for the absolute worst and i think that stockpiling ammo and food at the least is not a bad idea.

 

This is all something that i have been thinking about now for the past year or so and think that everyone should at least begin to think about it seriously now. America, just like any other country can only stay on top for so long before some one else comes along to take that spot and see their own people prosper.

[synaps]

Originally posted by mr.yuck@Jul 15 2005, 10:42 PM

I think the most viable threat to, I'll call it, the way of American life is China.

Quoted post

 

 

hands down. however i think russia is still the wild card. they've been quite the last few years.

 

 

i'll make an educated reply to this thread in the morning when i'm not so fueled.

 

great thread

[KaBar2]

Mr. Yuck---

I agree with your ideas about stockpiling wealth while we have the chance. Among my friends and acquaintances there are two separate theories. One is to run your credit cards up to the hilt at the first sign of real economic trouble by buying valuable shit that is portable (i.e. guns, ammunition, HAM radio gear, food stockpiles, vehicles, etc) because after the SHTF, the ability of the system to fiind you will be extremely impaired. You then "retreat" to your undisclosed fall-back position, where all your credit-card-purchased goodies will stand you in good stead while the earth falls apart.

I do NOT subscribe to that theory.

 

The second theory (which I DO subscribe to) is to get completely out of debt and to stay out of debt. Put yourself on a strictly cash basis--if you cannot pay cash for it, you don't need it. Look for a job or business that compensates you well, cut your expenses to the bone and your credit cards into little pieces. PAY OFF ALL DEBT. The idea is to be "debt free" if possible, as long as it doesn't impoverish your family. (No, I am not debt free, but I'm getting there. I just refinanced my home to pay off the last of my outstanding debts from going to nursing school and sending my wife to college for an Accounting degree.) SET UP A STRICT BUDGET that allows you to put 15% of your GROSS earnings into a retirement investment fund. Invest in a variety of mutual funds, large-growth stocks and bonds. Ten to fifteen percent of your available investment capital should go into gold coins, bulk silver bullion, bulk ammunition or other valuable, durable trade goods. If the SHTF, nobody will give you ten cents for a Rembrandt or a Van Gogh, but ammunition will be worth more than diamonds. Don't go nuts, of course, we're talking about 2-1/4% of your income. If you earn $25,000 a year, that's about $560 a year. It's not much in one year, but as the years go by, it adds up. (Don't go shooting up your stash of ammo. Range trips come out of your "recreation" budget, not your investment budget.)

 

Your investment fund would be about $3,750 a year, or $312 a month.

 

Most young Americans with a decent job spend WAY too much on housing, and WAY, WAY too much on cars. Automobiles wear out. They are expendable. Do not sink a shitload of money into something that wears out. Buy "good" used cars, if you absolutely must buy one, do NOT buy new cars. The second you drive a new car off the lot, it depreciates in value by 25%. You just got fucked. If the SHTF, within a month there will be no more gasoline. You'll be able to buy a 4x4 truck for a carton of cigarettes.

If I had it to do all over again, I would buy nothing but good, used major brand extended cargo vans, like Fords, Chevy's or Dodges. The fewer windows, the better. Cargo vans are a little more expensive to operate, but they are extremely useful. You can use them in a business. You can move your stuff easily from place to place. If you have to, you can live in a van. A sports car is just about worthless.

 

It would be a lot smarter to rent an apartment on a bus line and get a job on the same bus line. Buy a bicycle for short neighborhood trips. Live in a cheap, affordable apartment and SAVE, SAVE, SAVE to buy your own home. My wife and I more than doubled our investment in sixteen years by buying a home in a neighborhood destined to appreciate. A 200% return is hard to duplicate or predict, but we just lucked out. Real estate is no guaranteed winner, but you're better off owning your own home than you are buying somebody else a piece of property by paying rent. YOUR RENT EQUALS YOUR LANDLORD'S REAL ESTATE PAYMENT.

 

PLAN your future. You cannot expect things to turn out well unless you have a PLAN and you stick to it. Even though you may only be a high-school kid, YOU NEED A PLAN. "Partying hearty" is complete bullshit. START PLANNING YOUR FUTURE, and include contingencies for possible disaster. Someday, you will marry. Someday you will have children and a family. START PLANNING TODAY FOR YOUR CHILDREN'S COLLEGE EDUCATION, even if you are not married and have no intention of ever marrying. Teenagers have a very poor ability to see into the future. Trust me. You will go to college, you will marry, and you will have a family. If you wait to start preparing for your family until you actually have a family, it will be all the more stressful and difficult. Start NOW. (Besides, girls are very impressed with a guy who thinks about his future children and wife before he even has even met her. "I knew I would meet you someday, darling. And I've been saving, saving, saving just so I could take care of you and our children." Girls love that shit. You'll get laid more. Use birth control and WEAR A CONDOM, Romeo.)

 

Budget for the things you will need. Budget to build up a emergency fund equal to SIX MONTH'S LIVING EXPENSES, MINIMUM. If you lose your job, if you get hurt or sick, you will have six months to unfuck it. This fund should be in a savings account or in some stable, safe investment, like a one-year CD or Treasury bills. Don't touch it unless you are in serious ass trouble.

 

Don't blow your money on bullshit. Money is a survival asset. Treat it with respect. It represents WORK on your part, value that you can save up, invest, and increase. With money, your survival will be much easier. Without it, you'll be hurtin' for certain.

[Dawood]

Good thread, Lots of useful info, I want to take it a step further though, and talk about being prepared for death. Think about it, We go on talking about preparing for a nuclear fallout or a crash in the economy stockpiling water and ammo , and all that is good, but what have we prepared for our death? DEath is the only thing that we are promised and yet do we prepare for our death? We're not even promised the next blink of an eye , in all reality none of us can be sure when it is our time, so prepare for death, And if you beleive in a hereafter, if you beleive in God, then prepare for the meeting with your Lord. One of the sayings of the prophet Muhammad goes like this:

The Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) said, "...the righteous man sits in his grave and is not alarmed or afraid, then it is said to him (by angels): 'In (what state) were you?' So he says: 'In the (state of) Islaam.' So it is said to him: 'What is this man?' So he says: 'Muhammad the Messenger of Allaah who came to us with clear signs from Allaah, so we believed that.' Then it is said to him: 'Have you seen Allaah?' So he says: 'It does not behove any man that he sees Allaah.' So an opening is made for him in the direction of the Fire, so he sees it, some parts of it smashing into others, and it is said to him: 'Look at what Allaah, the Exalted, has saved you from.' Then an opening is made for him in the direction of Paradise, and he looks to its brilliance and what is therein and it is said to him: 'This is your place.' And it is said to him: 'You were upon certain Faith and died upon it and upon it you will be raised up, if Allaah wills.' And the wicked man sits in his grave alarmed and terrified and so it is said to him: 'In what state were you?' So he says: 'I do not know.' So it is said to him: 'Who is this man?' So he says: 'I heard the people saying something so I said it!' So an opening is made for him in the direction of Paradise and he sees its brilliance and what is therein, and it is said to him: 'Look at what Allaah has refused you.' Then an opening is made for him in the direction of the Fire, so he sees it crashing against itself and it is said: 'This is your place, you lived upon doubt and died upon it and you will be raised up upon it, if it is Allaah's will." [saheeh: Ibn Maajah from Abu Hurairah.]

So in my opinion, it is better to prepare for death than to prepare for this life because this life is like the blink of an eye compared to the next life which is everlasting.

[KaBar2]

Dawood, you must be one of Salafi's home boys. You're going to have a hard time convincing these guys to lead a righteous Muslim life, bro. I'm having trouble getting people to accept that using drugs is a bad idea. But, since they have had very little exposure to Islam, and it's new to them and different, maybe you'll have more success than the handfull of Christian believers on here have had. Frankly, fundamentalism has a rather limited appeal with the 12 oz. crowd. And you might as well be up front right now about how much Muslims hate the Jews. You can't remain righteous without telling the truth about it.

[Dawood]

the beleivers are nothing but brothers and sisters to one another. Each one holding the other one up like a brick.

No , i"m not here to convince anyone, just stating an opinion like everyone else. I'm not sure what righteousness has to do with hating Jews specifically. Allah informs us of their condition in the Quran of being disobedient and rebellious toward Allah. But I don't see where it is relevent here, Thats not the thing that Allah is most concerned with.

[Stereotype V.001]

Islamic Death Cult :burn: :burn: :burn:

 

 

Right on righteous dude!

[Stereotype V.001]

"Thats not the thing that Allah is most concerned with. "

 

Allah is concerned with where the white bitches be at. Holla!

[Dawood]

Stereotype,

 

Under normal circumstances , you would be beheaded, (just joking FBI) . But seriously, man, you should watch what you say. It could get you into a lot of trouble.

Don't be an idiot and start saying things about the Creator of the heavens and earth, the one who sustains you and gives you every breath. the one who is so merciful to you that he lets you live after making statements like that. Allah is God, although some people think that Allah is a different God than the God of the christians . His proper name is Allah, as he referred to himself in his holy books, God is a made up name , Jesus, nor Moses, nor Abraham or any of the prophets spoke english, so God was not what they called him. If you don't beleive in Allah (the true God) then keep that to yourself because this is a serious thing that people are getting killed over, I would say, don't put your head into the lions mouth.

[Stereotype V.001]

I don't live in Saudi Arabia, nor have I ever visited chop chop friday. Therefore, I can feel free to say whatever I want about Allah. Also, that can be perceived as a vague threat on your part, which really speaks volumes on you as a person, and the religion you decided to try to stuff down everyone's throats here. This isn't the 7th century, and although I do not believe your religion is archaic in anyway, the interpretation of it you seem to prescribe to certainly is. And just a friendly warning, if I was ever in the situation where I am about to get my head cut off by a small knife, I will bite your hand/wrist until I hear the bone crunch and feel the pulmonary open up wide. But then again this is the interweb.

 

And don't worry, I understand the definiton of Allah, and I also know it is rooted in two other major religions. That doesn't mean I give a fuck.

[Stereotype V.001]

And for future reference in all your Muslim internet adventures, you are a fool if you don't think this website has been atleast skimmed over. I don't know how many of you are familiar with the "red flag" system, works for email, phone calls, library records, and yes the internet as a whole (gotta love the patriot act!). Words like "Allah", "Jihad", "Osama Bin Laden" ect all raise the alarm and require to be checked over by http://www.nsa.gov/ ,or http://www.cia.gov/ ,or the always popular http://www.fbi.gov/ . Seems like an impossible feat, given the vastness of the internet, but computer programs look for the right combination of various words, and the amount of times they are said(which has been alot on this forum) to determine which ones gets a visit from an actual government worker. Wow, kewl.

[KaBar2]

I ain't worried. The FBI has a file on me thick as a metropolitan phone book. My high school girlfriend's Dad was a big shot in the ACLU, as well as a popular liberal college professor, so they probably have hours and hours of Cointelpro tape of me and her saying radical, revolutionary shit like:

 

"I love you."

"I love you more."

"No way."

"Yeah way."

"We gotta hang up, my Mom's actin' all bitchy cause I'm on the phone and it's a school night."

"Okay. You first."

"No, you first."

"Okay, we'll both hang up on three."

"Okay."

"Okay."

 

"One."

"Two."

"THREE."

 

"Cheater. You didn't hang up."

"That's cause I love you so much. And you didn't hang up either!"

(Her Mom picks up the extension phone)

"Vickie! I told you to get off this phone THIRTY MINUTES ago!"

"Sorry, Mom. We're hanging up right now."

"Don't 'Sorry Mom" me, get off the phone. Have you done your homework?"

"Uh, most of it."

(CLUNK)

"Boy, is she pissed."

"Yeah. Can you go to the demo Saturday?"

"I don't know. My sister wants me to baby-sit."

"Aw, man! That reeely sucks!"

"Let's say goodnight to the FBI."

"Yeah, they probably get off to hearing us talk about. . .well, you know."

"Kabar! They're probably taping our every word!"

"Fuckin' pigs. GOODNIGHT, PIGS."

"I gotta go."

"Right now?"

 

Imagine, tape after tape after tape of this kind of teenaged drivel. Your tax dollars at work. Interviews with my elderly neighbors. My teachers. My bosses, Mr. Frank and Mr. Joe at the Ming Palace Restaurant Excellent Chinese Cuisine.

 

"So, Mr. Wong, has Kabar ever mentioned revolutionary anarchist activity here at work?"

"No. No, he velly good boy. Hald wolka. Always late, but he good bus boy."

"Late? Late to work?"

"Oh, yes. Late to wolk. I dock his pay."

"I see. Have you seen any evidence that Kabar uses narcotics? Marijuana? LSD?"

"No, no nalcaltics. Velly hald wolka. One time he come dlunk. All bus boys come dlunk. I tell them I file them. No more dlinking befole wolk. They say okay."

"Mr. Wong, have you seen any communist activity?"

"He no communiss. Hald wolka."

 

I think the FBI wastes millions, maybe billions, of the taxpayer's money on crap like this. No wonder they can't find Al-Quaeda.

[Dick Quickwood]

Originally posted by Stereotype V.001@Jul 18 2005, 11:59 PM

And for future reference in all your Muslim internet adventures, you are a fool if you don't think this website has been atleast skimmed over. I don't know how many of you are familiar with the "red flag" system, works for email, phone calls, library records, and yes the internet as a whole (gotta love the patriot act!). Words like "Allah", "Jihad", "Osama Bin Laden" ect all raise the alarm and require to be checked over by http://www.nsa.gov/ ,or http://www.cia.gov/ ,or the always popular http://www.fbi.gov/ . Seems like an impossible feat, given the vastness of the internet, but computer programs look for the right combination of various words, and the amount of times they are said(which has been alot on this forum) to determine which ones gets a visit from an actual government worker. Wow, kewl.

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do you know of any links where i can find more information about this program?

[Stereotype V.001]

Kabar- Not too sure if saying we can't find Al Queda is too accurate, with around 3,000 operatives killed/captured?

 

It is a monumental waste of the taxpayer's money 98% of the time- but you would be suprised how often these guys slip up. Communications are often via email, and there are/have been many many websites used to exchange ideas on radicalism, planned attacks (I know of one would-be embassy bombing that was stopped offhand, I'm sure there have been a few others), and posting videos from Zarqawi's latest escapades. Not to mention how often weapons/explosive inventory and their over-all actions taken are documented on computers. Personally, I don't mind them checking my information out at all. I have nothing to hide, and I'm a God fearing American. Who eats plenty of redmeat. And, I hate commies.

 

Also, I'm guessing the example you posted is from the 60's/70's era. These days, since it has been made legal by the patriot act, funds don't have to be diverted. So it is done on a much larger scale. Using Mr. Dawood as an example, assuming our gov. is doing their job, he has atleast has his location and email checked due to his posts frequently describing how America/ democracy can't work and about "the creator of the heavens and earth and my mom's butt crack." A more indepth search might also check phone records (hope you don't have Islamabad on speed dial), recent travel destinations, ect.

 

Arcel- No, I don't have any links describing any of this. Since it is a matter of national security, I don't think a wealth of information will be available. If you read the patriot act you can see where all of it is facilitated.