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lord_casek

Obama: The New George Bush

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For what it's worth, I've recently moved into a community comprised of Caltech grad students and professors and NASA Jet Propulsion Lab employees involved in a number of different disciplines, including climatology. All of them are profoundly smart people with access to reams of data and what I would imagine far superior analytical skills than anyone on this site. I've spent a great deal of time picking their brain and learning about the current state of genetics, space travel, artificial intelligence, and climate change, among other things.

 

Their overall viewpoint on climate change? Global warming is real, humans are making it worse, and we should be doing dramatic things to counteract it.

 

I could give two shits about the internet links SOAKER posts, I'll take my info first hand from the real(er) deal, thanks.

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^Thank you. I've grown up around and taken numerous classes from professors at two elite universities at the forefront of climate research, and I've had a good deal of experience with relevant data/problem sets myself...but the universities are just being duped by the media and Al Gore, right?

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Thanks for what? For suggesting that because he associated with some grad student that this in some way supports what you claim? THis proves nothing, and is questionable. You still have not shown any evidence or supported your "nuanced" opinion with anything except conjecture and half truths. You said the exact word I was looking for ELITE. Your elitist mentality is similar to Gore's. You fail to realize that there are a LOT of scientists that DISAGREE with these theories, and then there are those scientists whose livelihood depends on continuing their climatology research. In addition there are numerous scholars, professors etc. that also disagree with these theories, and as far as a university is concerned, the university does not hold opinions, it is the teachers that harbor these views.

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i'll leave science to the scientists.

the only thing that gets me with the clever lefty is that they preach about overpopulation, hurting the environment and climate change caused by cars, etc. yet their ideology is so onerous they cant even follow it themselves! they hate guns, but have armed body guards, feinstein had the only gun permit in her home city, democratic congressmen from west virginia get caught with an illegal ar15 in DC, anti gun nc congressman shooting intruders in their house yet support laws that would forbid private ownership of weapons, etc.

the clever lefty still drives cars, uses energy, etc. the clever lefty usually lives in the city in a hip loft, wouldnt step foot in the wilderness for more than a day or two, and tries to act like they know how to run the lives of rural americans. they preach about overpopulation, yet each clever lefty has it within their capacity to reduce the earths population by 1... yet they are still hanging around. they preach against capitalism yet they owe everything in their life to it.

 

just sayin

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It's the exact same thing with clever righties and their failure to act the way they purport to stand for, but I'm not gonna offer a laundry list... I could mention in passing the discrepancy between Jesus's teachings and the actual behavior of the right-wing moralists who claim to follow him. Everyone's a hypocrite when framed in the appropriately twisted scenario, I particularly like this one of yours:

 

they preach about overpopulation, yet each clever lefty has it within their capacity to reduce the earths population by 1

 

Oh my, the hypocrisy!

 

 

 

SOAKER, it's one thing to be wrong, another to be a moron. Congratulations on achieving both.

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the clever lefty still drives cars, uses energy, etc. the clever lefty usually lives in the city in a hip loft, wouldnt step foot in the wilderness for more than a day or two, and tries to act like they know how to run the lives of rural americans.

 

As you said BINGO!

 

Im glad to hear someone acknowledge this. Al Gore, the environmentalist,, Cadillac motorcades, private jets, mansions, eats meat, and is trying to suggest that we need to change our lives to better the planet.

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Thats great, you've managed to make an insulting remark! Wow how moderate of you. Typical leftist behavior. I'm wrong? Come on tell me how I'm wrong? Tell me one thing that I've said that is wrong? You can't because everything I've stated or explained is based on facts, and some sinycal remarks. Lets see some evidence that I'm wrong.

 

Besides thats not the point of how this debate started. The point was to show how the left, Obama and Gore, or whomever is just as money hungry and corrupt as the Bush administration. Fine you believe in Global Warming. OK. Sure the earth is heating up, fine (even tho it's not), the problem is the government is using this THEORY to pass new laws, regulate commerce, earn profits, and raise taxes. If your for government control and higher taxes, fuck it, support this agenda.

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I like how your previous post pretty much only said "Sadly you are both full of shit" at first, but then you edited it and made it more elaborate and then proceeded to start off your last post with "Thats great, you've managed to make an insulting remark! Wow how moderate of you."

 

Good work, chap. Nothing hypocritical there.

 

I'm not gonna waste time pointing out where you're wrong because you're not gonna believe it; you're naive and stubborn, and naive and stubborn people don't change their minds. I am merely stating that I have sat down and discussed this with actual scientists from leading institutions in the field with a good grasp on what's going on and you have merely formed a set of beliefs from things you have read on the Internet.

 

I win. You can go cry about it.

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What did you win? Sure I edited my post, from my iphone to my PC. Does this simple observation somehow validate your opinion? No, it doesn't, and yes your full of shit.

 

Your not going to point anything out, because just like your like minded buddies on here, there's nothing to point out. You think since you SAID some one you met who goes to college said global warming is real, makes it real? Sorry but it doesn't. You wanna make Gore look like robin hood, when he's really a robber baron, if that what makes you feel all good inside, do it. But at the end of the day you still don't know what your talking about, and really should be ashamed of yourself for being so damn supportive of big government and pro corporate America.

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I'd like to kindly ask you to point out exactly where I've stated my support for Gore, big government, and/or corporate America.

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Tale of Two Houses

House #1

 

A 20 room mansion (not including 8 bathrooms) heated by natural gas. Add on a pool (and a pool house) and a separate guest house, all heated by gas. In one month this residence consumes more energy than the average American household does in a year. The average bill for electricity and natural gas runs over $2400 per month. In natural gas alone, this property consumes more than 20 times the national average for an American home. This house is not situated in a Northern or Midwestern 'snow belt' area. It's in the South.

 

House #2

 

Designed by an architecture professor at a leading national university. This house incorporates every 'green' feature current home construction can provide. The house is 4,000 square feet (4 bedrooms) and is nestled on a high prairie in the American southwest. A central closet in the house holds geothermal heat-pumps drawing ground water through pipes sunk 300 feet into the ground.

 

The water (usually 67 degrees F) heats the house in the winter and cools it in the summer. The system uses no fossil fuels such as oil or natural gas and it consumes one-quarter electricity required for a conventional heating/cooling system. Rainwater from the roof is collected and funneled into a 25,000 gallon underground cistern. Wastewater from showers, sinks and toilets goes into underground purifying tanks and then into the cistern. The collected water then irrigates the land surrounding the house. Surrounding flowers and shrubs native to the area enable the property to blend into the surrounding rural landscape.

 

HOUSE #1 is outside of Nashville, Tennessee. It is the abode of the 'Environmentalist' Al Gore.

 

HOUSE #2 is on a ranch near Crawford, Texas. It is the residence of the Ex-President of the United States, George W. Bush.

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It's the exact same thing with clever righties and their failure to act the way they purport to stand for, but I'm not gonna offer a laundry list... I could mention in passing the discrepancy between Jesus's teachings and the actual behavior of the right-wing moralists who claim to follow him. Everyone's a hypocrite when framed in the appropriately twisted scenario, I particularly like this one of yours:

 

well, right now we are talking about the clever lefties.

in another thread i'll be sure to point out 'pro life' righties that like to blow up civilians, a drug snorting rush limbaugh, fornicating ministers, supposed undying support for the constitution but they all thought ron paul was a nut job, etc.

 

what you didnt like my over population joke?

jeez. even the most hardcore enviro nerd should laugh at that...

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Tale of Two Houses

House #1

 

A 20 room mansion (not including 8 bathrooms) heated by natural gas. Add on a pool (and a pool house) and a separate guest house, all heated by gas. In one month this residence consumes more energy than the average American household does in a year. The average bill for electricity and natural gas runs over $2400 per month. In natural gas alone, this property consumes more than 20 times the national average for an American home. This house is not situated in a Northern or Midwestern 'snow belt' area. It's in the South.

 

House #2

 

Designed by an architecture professor at a leading national university. This house incorporates every 'green' feature current home construction can provide. The house is 4,000 square feet (4 bedrooms) and is nestled on a high prairie in the American southwest. A central closet in the house holds geothermal heat-pumps drawing ground water through pipes sunk 300 feet into the ground.

 

The water (usually 67 degrees F) heats the house in the winter and cools it in the summer. The system uses no fossil fuels such as oil or natural gas and it consumes one-quarter electricity required for a conventional heating/cooling system. Rainwater from the roof is collected and funneled into a 25,000 gallon underground cistern. Wastewater from showers, sinks and toilets goes into underground purifying tanks and then into the cistern. The collected water then irrigates the land surrounding the house. Surrounding flowers and shrubs native to the area enable the property to blend into the surrounding rural landscape.

 

HOUSE #1 is outside of Nashville, Tennessee. It is the abode of the 'Environmentalist' Al Gore.

 

HOUSE #2 is on a ranch near Crawford, Texas. It is the residence of the Ex-President of the United States, George W. Bush.

 

i've been past al gore's brentwood estate.. or what someone told me is al gore's estate.... its nuts

and this guy preaches class warfare and this environmental stuff

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I agree its funny...And I don't see how it's a hypocritical statement....Personally I'd like to see this laundry list of discrepancies, but I doubt el figero will list em, cause it's nonsense, just like he won't provide any evidence to support the theory of global warming. Maybe next, in his infinite wisom that has been bestowed upon him by notable grad students at a local christian university, he will tell us of the true meaning of christianity and what Emmanuel is all about

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i've been past al gore's brentwood estate.. or what someone told me is al gore's estate.... its nuts

and this guy preaches class warfare and this environmental stuff

 

Yea? Im going to Nashville next week, I'll be sure to drive by. Been to Crawford, TX.

Yea it's laughable that these nut job leftists somehow think this guy is genuinely concerned about the future of our planet and the environment. Guess they're wearing political beer goggles. Hey I'm all for independent energy, clean burning fuel, recycling water, etc. That shit is expensive to build, but at least it gets you off of the grid and out of the government control.

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No, I DID like it, it's just that it's a bit out of place with the other claims that are at least somewhat defensible.

 

I'd also like to note that if we only held our support for people who practice what they preach very strictly, we'd each be supporting an awfully small amount of people in the world. There's plenty of ammunition to go after Gore on a number of issues without ever having to touch the "preach ≠ practice" argument, which frankly pretty much everyone is guilty of to some level and really doesn't hold up as a valid argument against the core of the message.

 

Too many people subscribe to the following faulty logic to reach an overall conclusion on the subject:

 

1) Gore believes climate change is happening.

2) Gore believes we should conduct ourselves in an environmentally friendly way.

3) Gore does not conduct himself in an environmentally friendly way.

--------------------

Therefore, climate change is not happening.

 

 

By the way SOAKER, AOD went ahead and listed some of that laundry list. You can go ahead and tell him if it's nonsense or not.

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Nah see I agree with aod observations and he actuallly listed some but you did not. If you understood anything about Christianity you'd understand that it's not about being a perfect person. So, anyhow the logic you propose is in error becuase this is not the basis of the argument I'm making . Gore is a profiteer and is helping pass laws that attempt to change the way we live, yet his lifestyle is that of that which needs to change. The enviromentalist ideology is based on these principles which he so conveniently violates. Besides this is not what I've said, you see I've provided countless papers, documents and research, many of which are either written by or supported by notable scientists, not Grad students, that dispute the THEORY of climate change

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Add "Christianity is about being a perfect person" to the list of things I've said, according to you, that have yet to be pointed out in my posts.

 

Listen, I'm happy you've found some stuff on the Internet, I really am. I'm just saying, sit down with some legit climatologists and discuss the subject in person, pick their brains, and let us know how it goes.

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You brought up religion and suggested that Christian politicians are hypocrites.

 

Look I'm glad you talked to some college kids about the weather, I really 'am... I'm just saying pick up a journal, read an article, watch a documentary, talk to some professors, pick their brains, and let us know how it goes.

 

You missed the point about there being a political aspect to this I guess. Gore money oil taxes...shit like that...here let me show you a picture that might give you some introspective insight into the subject.

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You brought up religion and suggested that Christian politicians are hypocrites.

 

I did. I did not, however, imply that Christianity was about being perfect, or that these people are hypocrites because they fail at being perfect.

 

 

 

 

Look I'm glad you talked to some college kids about the weather, I really 'am... I'm just saying pick up a journal, read an article, watch a documentary, talk to some professors, pick their brains, and let us know how it goes.

 

I already did all of those. Meanwhile, you have not.

 

 

 

 

You missed the point about there being a political aspect to this I guess. Gore money oil taxes...shit like that...here let me show you a picture that might give you some introspective insight into the subject.

 

Not denying the political aspect to this at all. If you wanna stick to complaining about the politicizing of this issue and the way its being handled, then rock and roll, valid discussion and I may even agree with you on some points. But since you wanna pepper your argument with pick n' choose articles that relate to the science behind climate change, I'm gonna take issue with that particular point, because however you wanna put it, however many marginally valid articles you can scrounge up online, science is simply not on your side, buddy.

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Once again you've said NOTHING about climate change, provided no evidence to substantiate your opinion, nor have you discussed the politics involved. You fail tounderstand that what I've gave evidence to is that Gore has lied about alot of the science, blatantly lied and it's not arguable. The point being made is that he has lied to market his business and for personal gain. Suggesting online information is inherently flawed is a mute point, because were online so giving evidence to an opinion is going to be, guess what? Online. Besides, this is a discussion, treat it as such.

 

Science is on both sides of the argument, and considering the enormous amount of wealth being generated by "your" side I find it suspect.

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Here is a scholarly article and a book that offer some insight into the politics surrounding this issue. I've only briefly read these and I'm not saying their the truth or not. Like you said, neither of us are scientists so all we can do is read the summations and critiques of the findings and attempt to interpret them. These readings address the politicization of the theory of climate change.

 

http://www.csupomona.edu/~zywang/lindzen.pdf

 

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=8HzBjbAaOVcC&oi=fnd&pg=PR13&dq=global+waming+the+inconvenient+lie&ots=mB5qdCASrI&sig=TtcujHMPLh2KN8MpCticbLyBDK0#v=onepage&q=&f=false

 

Just as the Bush administration misconstrued the findings of the intelligence in Iraq, and manipulated the truth to wage a war that lined the pockets of corporations, Gore and his cronies have lied and manipulated the truth behind climate change for similar motives. Both have undermined the democratic process and both are based on creating hysteria and fear. Obama has endorsed the same agenda as Gore.

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