Obama: The New George Bush

[dBking]

awww puddin, wittle guy cant summarize effectively....

 

 

your post is still 100% completely unread by everyone but yourself. the curve dropped off somewhere after the first sentences..

 

learn how to speak to your audience.

[lord_casek]

awww puddin, wittle guy cant summarize effectively....

 

 

your post is still 100% completely unread by everyone but yourself. the curve dropped off somewhere after the first sentences..

 

learn how to speak to your audience.

 

 

learn to read and maybe you wouldn't have to ask for summaries.

[dBking]

dude, i dont know what your 20,000 posts consist of, but this is a forum for GRAFFITI, and all other material is secondary.

 

check my posts and see what im on about. i spit recipes and ink/paint chemistry.

 

 

its 10PM, do you know where your cans are?

[dBking]

i mean, you started this thread with an inflammatory title in what i am guessing is an attempt to get people to read it out of purely being controversial.

 

 

your methods are lost on me. you got me here, and i read, but as i stated before, i am one of a VERY small handful that has the patience to sit with that kind of tom foolery.

[lord_casek]

dude, i dont know what your 20,000 posts consist of, but this is a forum for GRAFFITI, and all other material is secondary.

 

check my posts and see what im on about. i spit recipes and ink/paint chemistry.

 

 

its 10PM, do you know where your cans are?

 

 

wow, man. i'm so impressed.

 

my 20,000+ posts consist of helping people out with computer shit and political stuff on here. i don't feel the need to ride my own dick by posting my graffiti.

 

 

 

i started this thread because obama is acting like george bush, and it's only getting worse.

 

if educated people who have educated comments want to post, fine by me.

 

in all the time you wasted trying to get me to summarize and then jocking yourself, you could've read the article and come up with something constructive to say about it.

 

 

it's 3:03 P.M, they're in my closet.

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

Sigh.

 

Don't want to read? Stay in Channel Zero with DAO.

 

Torture certainly doesn't work well enough to rely on it to save your own citizens, which is the excuse our government is using to do it. I mean not do it.

[Mainframe]

Torture doesn't yield reliable information

 

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20090503/OPINION04/905030312/1035/archive

 

 

Torture Has a Long History ... of Not Working

 

http://www.livescience.com/history/071019-torture-history.html

 

 

 

Psychologists, Former Interrogators Discuss Torture

http://explore.georgetown.edu/news/?ID=31844

 

You completely missed the point. Mining the internet for random articles that support your opinions (that's what they are) doesn't convince anybody that you know what you're talking about. I don't know why you think that gives you the leverage to go around telling people they have no idea what they're talking about, especially when you're starting threads like this. That was the point, I wasn't disputing anything about torture. The way you make this entire section of the forum completely unpalatable is worthy of many face-palms.

[shai]

I said I was going to give Obama a year, and I'm going to stick to that. I will say that I'm not too thrilled with him so far, but it's hard to tell whether he's trying to clean up messes that were left behind or if he's truly blowing it.

 

After all, GWB and his handlers didn't start off fucking up that bad...they worked up to that level over time and hit their stride in 2003.

[Prime Chaos]

HOPE!! CHANGE!!! my ass. i always knew black people wern't ready to control a country..

[lord_casek]

You completely missed the point. Mining the internet for random articles that support your opinions (that's what they are) doesn't convince anybody that you know what you're talking about. I don't know why you think that gives you the leverage to go around telling people they have no idea what they're talking about, especially when you're starting threads like this. That was the point, I wasn't disputing anything about torture. The way you make this entire section of the forum completely unpalatable is worthy of many face-palms.

 

 

 

there are a ton of CIA reports that i've read that says torture does nothing.

i'd say CIA report has much more leverage than average 12oz user.

[lord_casek]

btw mainframe: if you have something newsworthy, post it. don't let me overrun crossfire if you feel that the news i post is so unpalatable. go for it, post your obama worship articles.

[lord_casek]

mancow being waterboarded

[GnomeToys]

dude, i dont know what your 20,000 posts consist of, but this is a forum for GRAFFITI, and all other material is secondary.

[/color]

 

 

This forum is called:

 

CROSSFIRE Formal off-topic discussion. News, politics, and current events.

 

 

Note the topics. Note that none of them are graffiti. If you can't / won't read what amounts to probably less than a whole magazine article worth of text, stay the fuck in Ch0 or any of the other conversation-light areas of this forum. As for aiming towards the intended audience... last week I read six novels in a series which was a fictional revisionist history of the early history of America / mixed with mormon folklore and various native religions. This weekend I read through 500 pages of an old pharmaceutical chemistry book to compare the state of modern medicine with that 40 years ago and get an idea which areas of the field have been poorly researched over the years.

 

Between this I still had time to go to a national motorcycle run 3 states away, drink with those guys two nights, keep the house clean, mow the lawn here and at our other house, take a few hundred photos, process them, etc... blah blah blah, so quit acting like it's some kind of goddamn horrible inconvenience to have to read 2 minutes worth of material about the political actions being taken by the current president.

 

 

 

 

TL;DR version: GTFO of crossfire if you don't like reading.

[the_gooch]

ron paul was a pretty damn good candidate. had the MSM not tried to make him out to be some kind of weird alien believing conspiracy nut he would've been in mcsame's place

 

 

agreed and i switched to republican so i can vote for him in their primary, only to find out i missed the deadline to have been able to vote in that. bastards!

[Mainframe]

btw mainframe: if you have something newsworthy, post it. don't let me overrun crossfire if you feel that the news i post is so unpalatable. go for it, post your obama worship articles.

 

[lord_casek]

wow, you're really good with bb code.

 

that's showing me.

[lord_casek]

Torturing the Rule of Law

 

Ron Paul

Infowars

May 26, 2009

 

While Congress is sidetracked by who said what to whom and when, our nation finds itself at a crossroads on the issue of torture. We are at a point where we must decide if torture is something that is now going to be considered justifiable and reasonable under certain circumstances, or is America better than that?

 

“Enhanced interrogation” as some prefer to call it, has been used throughout history, usually by despotic governments, to cruelly punish or to extract politically useful statements from prisoners. Governments that do these things invariably bring shame on themselves.

 

In addition, information obtained under duress is incredibly unreliable, which is why it is not admissible in a court of law. Legally valid information is freely given by someone of sound mind and body. Someone in excruciating pain, or brought close to death by some horrific procedure is not in any state of mind to give reliable information, and certainly no actions should be taken solely based upon it.

 

For these reasons, it is illegal in the United States and illegal under Geneva Conventions. Simulated drowning, or water boarding, was not considered an exception to these laws when it was used by the Japanese against US soldiers in World War II. In fact, we hanged Japanese officers for war crimes in 1945 for water boarding. Its status as torture has already been decided by our own courts under this precedent. To look the other way now, when Americans do it, is the very definition of hypocrisy.

 

Matthew Alexander, author of How to Break a Terrorist used non-torture methods of interrogation in Iraq with much success. In fact, one cooperative jihadist told him, "I thought you would torture me, and when you didn’t, I decided that everything I was told about Americans was wrong. That’s why I decided to cooperate." Alexander also found that in Iraq “the No. 1 reason foreign fighters flocked there to fight were the abuses carried out at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. Our policy of torture was directly and swiftly recruiting fighters for al-Qaeda in Iraq.” Alexander’s experiences unequivocally demonstrate that losing our humanity is not beneficial or necessary in fighting terror.

 

The current administration has reversed its position on releasing evidence of torture by the previous administration and we must ask why. A great and moral nation would have the courage to face the truth so it could abide by the rule of law. To look the other way necessarily implicates all of us and would of course further radicalize people against our troops on the ground. Instead, we have the chance to limit culpability for torture to those who were truly responsible for these crimes against humanity.

 

Not everyone who was given illegal orders obeyed them. Many FBI agents understood that an illegal order must be disobeyed and they did so. The others must be held accountable, so that all of us are not targeted for blowback for the complicity of some.

 

The government’s own actions and operations in torturing people, and in acting on illegally obtained and unreliable information to kill and capture, are the most radicalizing forces at work today, not any religion, nor the fact that we are rich and free. The fact that our government engages in evil behavior under the auspices of the American people is what poses the greatest threat to the American people, and it must not be allowed to stand.

[NewAccount12345]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT ANOTHER HIT TO OUR RIGHTS NOT EVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Look at sotomayors presentation right when there talking about detaining. there was a point where it was damn near impossible to detain a u.s citizen because we were "C"itizens and i strongly believe that this would be another hit to our rights

 

 

the way that it would effect us is another title or classification of criminal which can be used in any case that presents itself in our courts.

 

 

this is some big shit the executive branch is thinking of doing that could ruin our country for generations. i think i qoute him corrctly in saying that "i want to think about this because it could affect future presidents to come" or osmething like that.

 

well his self centered big wig ass isnt thinking about the people in america in the future that may be detained and classified as "ENEMY COMBATANT" a new classification!!!!!!!!!!! written into law and this bullshit "international law" as well. other countries will follow america on this.

 

 

analyze the word enemy combatant if you were a lawyer or a judge.

 

 

I SAY SEND THEM BACK TO THERE HOME COUNTRIES WHETHER ANYONE LIKES THEM OR NOT. NOONE RECIEVES JUSTICE BUT U.S. citizens in the U.S. Justice system

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aGyhkPlY8U

 

cnn on bush losing powers to try "detainees" in america with due process like citizens

[NewAccount12345]

basically no more P.O.W.'s that you try or send home with considerations for all countries involved just Enemy Combatants and your staying in jail forever with no trial or a bullshit trial

 

 

 

thr tricky part is you dont want to give them real trials becaus eit could comprimise U.S. citizens righst to due process and create another wartime detainee classification. and brand new rules around them that will be unfair to them and us USA citizens

 

once a "detainee" recieves due process of any kind they are citizens. i guess i will contact my congresspeople and tell them that if they do write a new law and approve of anything other then sending them back home like P.O.W.'s THEY SHOULD NEVER BECOME US CITIZENS OR BE ABLE TO ARGUE THEY ARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[fastZeetec302]

speaking of: have you see ventura on all these talk shows recently? hannity was my favorite. v

 

jesse is a moron. 'I WAS A NAVY SEAL' nobody cares.

[El Mamerro]

Wait, genuine curiosity, how exactly is Obama keeping torture as a legit means of obtaining information? Refusing to release pictures of torture and continuing to practice torture are two very different things. I've heard about the former, of course (which after a good amount of thinking and considering, I ended up agreeing with), but not about the latter.

[lord_casek]

he's keeping and expanding bush era torture programs, mamerro.

 

after first opposing them (i think a lot of his supporters are now seeing this) and now wanting to keep them in practice.

 

bought and paid for, my friend.

[Ski Mask]

just a quick sidebar to the torture issue, has anyone else read this?

 

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/05/16-4

Joy-Ann Reid is a Miami based journalist talking about new evidence appearing that shows "enhanced interrogation" was used in 02-03 specifically for the purpose of generating intel linking iraq and al-qaeda. I heard an interview with her on Counterspin and checked out the article. the sourcing is pretty far up the chain of command, its a shame more outlets arent running with this.

[lord_casek]

just a quick sidebar to the torture issue, has anyone else read this?

 

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/05/16-4

Joy-Ann Reid is a Miami based journalist talking about new evidence appearing that shows "enhanced interrogation" was used in 02-03 specifically for the purpose of generating intel linking iraq and al-qaeda. I heard an interview with her on Counterspin and checked out the article. the sourcing is pretty far up the chain of command, its a shame more outlets arent running with this.

 

 

 

didn't read the book, but i have read General Taguba's report from back in the early days of the war talking about child rape, torture with acid, etc.

 

here's Jesse Ventura on fox and friends. owning them.

part 1

 

part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuaD6zbZqdQ&feature=related

[El Mamerro]

he's keeping and expanding bush era torture programs, mamerro.

 

after first opposing them (i think a lot of his supporters are now seeing this) and now wanting to keep them in practice.

 

bought and paid for, my friend.

 

Links? Again, I haven't read even the slightest bit of torture remaining in practice, only the refusal to release pictures and prosecute offenders.

[lord_casek]

Loophole's

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=12041

 

 

Obama preserves rendition two days after taking office

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Obama_preserves_rendition_in__0201.html

 

as you may know, extraordinary rendition is the name the CIA uses to torture.

usually flying the suspects out fo country to a country with weak or no laws on torture.

 

 

also, there are a ton of ghost sites across the globe. as i've said all along, the closing of gitmo means nothing.

it's just one base, and not even the worst practices were conducted there. they save that for other sites.

 

i'll grab some more articles just in case the raw story (very left leaning) doesn't do it for you.

[fastZeetec302]

suck my balls liberal faggot. ^^^^

[lord_casek]

suck my balls liberal faggot. ^^^^

 

 

i'm a conservative heterosexual. thanks for playing, though.

 

btw: fresh prince on your profile...wow.

 

and you called me a faggot.

[fastZeetec302]

holy shit fresh prince..yo you guys are good as shit with this computer stuff. remind me to be nice to you.

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

You're just an idiot.