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CLIMATE CHANGE, THE GREATEST THREAT TO US ALL

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man made global warming/climate change is a complete and absolute FRAUD.

CO2 is not a toxic pollutant.

sorry i'm not going to and never will buy into that shit. EVER.

Now if you wanna talk terra-forming, that's that real shit, watch out.

anyways, do not respond until watching this film.

seriously.

http://www.garagetv.be/video-galerij/blancostemrecht/The_Great_Global_Warming_Swindle_Documentary_Film.aspx

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In future I suggest you do some reading before you run around parroting corporate interests.

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sorry i'm not going to and never will buy into that shit. EVER.

 

 

I can't argue with this reasoned, scientifically based argument. I'm sold!

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Even though everyone thinks I'm crazy when I say this, I now believe that climate change has more to do with cycles in nature than human intervention. I've never read any studies that clearly proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that people were responsible for it, not to mention most of what I have read that makes the case that industry=global warming is rarely written by the most neutral of sources.

 

Disclaimer- I didn't come to this conclusion overnight. I did a lot of reading last summer about global warming and the concept/marketing of carbon offsets and green technology, along with how other environmental issues are rapidly being co-opted and subsumed by corporate interests.

 

Now before anyone goes off the deep-end and calls me a capitalist stooge, bear in mind that most of my day to day habits are pretty low impact on the environment...I recycle, buy used stuff, use my own bag when I go shopping, turn off lights, ride a bike and take transit, conserve water, pick up trash/don't litter...as I said, this is more out of habit than any belief that I'm personally saving the earth because I know better.

 

The only manmade thing I really worry about is nuclear weapons, and so far we've been pretty lucky with those. As far as everything else mankind is afflicting the planet with, I think the only long term damage we'll end up doing will be to mankind...we should be honest and admit that since the planet will do fine without us, just like it did for billions of years before we came along. So, I don't think it's about us saving the world...more about if we're lucky we just might save ourselves.

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Does anyone remember this?

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/08/07/contrails.climate/index.html

 

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0520-05.htm

 

Research paper here:

http://facstaff.uww.edu/travisd/pdf/jetcontrailsrecentresearch.pdf

 

When they grounded all flights after 9/11 the temperature began increasing rapidly due to particulate crap from fossil fuels not being in the atmosphere to reflect energy back into space / form clouds.

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i think that hole in the ozone thing sucks.. it's growing faster than ever^.. and glacier melt is exponential because of it. and those tree f'ing beetles that don't hibernate because of the temperatures wiping out big percentages of forest...

i do believe what i see on the discovery channel and in science magazines. so, i'ma build a house underground and maintain a greenhouse.. just incase.

i guess the last resort is a reliable bomb shelter.. but wtf. thats all up to crazy people we have no control over.

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Yea, I'm sure hundreds of millions of automobiles spewing exhaust every second along with all the industrial smoke stacks,

and power plants belching even more co2 have absolutely no effect on the planet.

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The only manmade thing I really worry about is nuclear weapons, and so far we've been pretty lucky with those. As far as everything else mankind is afflicting the planet with, I think the only long term damage we'll end up doing will be to mankind...we should be honest and admit that since the planet will do fine without us, just like it did for billions of years before we came along. So, I don't think it's about us saving the world...more about if we're lucky we just might save ourselves.

 

I agree with you about the nukes. Human beings have a pretty poor track record with keeping peace, now that more and more countries have nuclear weapons I think its a disaster waiting to happen.

 

 

RE; Global warming.

What is this damage we are doing to mankind and not to anything else? This concept seems counter intuitive to everything I have ever learnt about environmental science.

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RE; Global warming.

What is this damage we are doing to mankind and not to anything else? This concept seems counter intuitive to everything I have ever learnt about environmental science.

 

Humans have a very self-centered way of seeing where they fit into the picture. You have a bunch of people saying "We need to stop polluting the planet or else everything is going to die" while the other half are thinking "fuck everyone else, I'm going to do whatever I want to make money or what I have to do to survive."

 

The message that SHOULD be put out there is that "The Earth is not a very forgiving place to live, and millions of species have died out because they taxed their resources or because of natural random chance. There's nothing you can do about the latter, but if you want the human race to survive then you better clean up your act or we're not gonna make it." That's a lot more accurate, and it appeals to the selfishness of humans...because most people are looking out for number one, they don't care about an owl or some runoff into a creek in the middle of nowhere. People seldom tend to take a preventative holistic view until after the fact, and usually by then it's too late.

 

As far as damage we're doing to ourselves and how the opportunism of nature is coming into play, let's say cancer, too much reliance on antibiotics and immunizations of questionable value (well, some are good but some aren't), and genetically modified produce and hormone-impregnated meat and dairy products are making us weaker as a species and decreasing our odds of survival.

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any criticism or perspectives on the concrete points made in the actual movie, has anyone even watched it?

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Humans have a very self-centered way of seeing where they fit into the picture. You have a bunch of people saying "We need to stop polluting the planet or else everything is going to die" while the other half are thinking "fuck everyone else, I'm going to do whatever I want to make money or what I have to do to survive."

 

The message that SHOULD be put out there is that "The Earth is not a very forgiving place to live, and millions of species have died out because they taxed their resources or because of natural random chance. There's nothing you can do about the latter, but if you want the human race to survive then you better clean up your act or we're not gonna make it." That's a lot more accurate, and it appeals to the selfishness of humans...because most people are looking out for number one, they don't care about an owl or some runoff into a creek in the middle of nowhere. People seldom tend to take a preventative holistic view until after the fact, and usually by then it's too late.

.

 

... the long winded ironic version of every other comment.. except for the eagle eater, his sarcasm wasn't contradicting his own statement.. i think he'll really eat that shit

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Humans have a very self-centered way of seeing where they fit into the picture. You have a bunch of people saying "We need to stop polluting the planet or else everything is going to die" while the other half are thinking "fuck everyone else, I'm going to do whatever I want to make money or what I have to do to survive."

 

The message that SHOULD be put out there is that "The Earth is not a very forgiving place to live, and millions of species have died out because they taxed their resources or because of natural random chance. There's nothing you can do about the latter, but if you want the human race to survive then you better clean up your act or we're not gonna make it." That's a lot more accurate, and it appeals to the selfishness of humans...because most people are looking out for number one, they don't care about an owl or some runoff into a creek in the middle of nowhere. People seldom tend to take a preventative holistic view until after the fact, and usually by then it's too late.

 

As far as damage we're doing to ourselves and how the opportunism of nature is coming into play, let's say cancer, too much reliance on antibiotics and immunizations of questionable value (well, some are good but some aren't), and genetically modified produce and hormone-impregnated meat and dairy products are making us weaker as a species and decreasing our odds of survival.

 

Ok again I agree with half your post.

Yes I agree Humans have a self centred world outlook, but even with this in mind, it is impossible to ignore the damage that we have done to countless ecological systems that we have disturbed through not only pollution but things like monoculture, the ability to transport pests from one side of the globe to another, even simple over population.

By saying 'the earth will be ok without us, all we are doing is damage to ourselves'. You ignore a more subtle distinction between prolonging our survival and retaining as much of the diversity of our worlds eco systems as possible. I think it is a reasonable argument to make to say that our long term survival and maintaining biodiversity are fairly intertwined!

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That's another thing...people get hung up on extinction and say that it's a horrible thing that we're aiding and abetting the wholesale death of a variety of species, yet they forget that's just another eventuality of nature. I agree that we shouldn't facilitate it but it's hard to say with any certainty that we're somehow part of the plan, and that maybe our role in nature IS to do what we're doing (it's a stretch, but it's something to consider). Our behavior seems to be hardwired to some degree, and even though we've been aware of the toll we're taking on the environment for some time now, we've only made baby steps to mend our ways. Also, with the growing middle class in China and India, we're facing a whole generation of billions of people that want to participate in consumer culture and I can't see that working out well at all...but I digress.

 

I don't expect people to agree with most of my opinions about this because admittedly they're going to seem rather Neitzschean if not downright nihilistic, but I'd rather do the few little things I can to make my area a little nicer than throwing my weight behind a cause that I'm not going to have very little effect on and getting discouraged and stressed out by that. Then again, I see very little difference between someone putting all their faith in God or Allah and my saying "nature is going to take the course it wants to take whether we like it or not, and whatever influence we bring to bear on the environment- for better or for worse- will most likely be fleeting and negligible in the long run."

 

In short- I care about the planet, but I care on my terms. They're somewhat selfish and they only benefit me and a few people around me, and I'm okay with that.

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Hybrid automobiles were developed at the turn of the century (as in, 1901) and transesterification (the principle behind biodiesel) was discovered in 1853...which predates the diesel engine by 40 years.

 

The more important question to ask should be "Why did it take so long for these technologies to catch on?"

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I think the more important question is: Should we be allowing the government to take over the environmental movement? In one perspective, the government has contributed greatly to motivate the people to "go green" which is positive. But on the other hand, they have completely distorted scientific facts without any professional scientific approval, disregarded criticism and labeled those who do as mentally ill, and have created the outlines for new "green" taxes to "save the earth". What gets me really angry is how this has all been mostly unopposed only because they were smart enough to blame global warming on humans, which is plain stupid.

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I think the more important question is: Should we be allowing the government to take over the environmental movement? In one perspective, the government has contributed greatly to motivate the people to "go green" which is positive. But on the other hand, they have completely distorted scientific facts without any professional scientific approval, disregarded criticism and labeled those who do as mentally ill, and have created the outlines for new "green" taxes to "save the earth". What gets me really angry is how this has all been mostly unopposed only because they were smart enough to blame global warming on humans, which is plain stupid.

 

Good point...you beat me to it.

 

I think environmental awareness has entered the zeitgeist in a big way, and is rapidly approaching dogma. This is spooky because this mindset can easily be anti-science. Right now, there's no room for debate or objectivity regarding certain environmental issues, unless you want to get written off as a crank and that's not good.

 

Also, there's a phenomenal amount of money in "green industry" to be made right now. When pundits say it could revitalize the economy, they aren't kidding....it's almost like a gold rush.

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That's another thing...people get hung up on extinction and say that it's a horrible thing that we're aiding and abetting the wholesale death of a variety of species, yet they forget that's just another eventuality of nature. I agree that we shouldn't facilitate it but it's hard to say with any certainty that we're somehow part of the plan, and that maybe our role in nature IS to do what we're doing (it's a stretch, but it's something to consider). Our behavior seems to be hardwired to some degree, and even though we've been aware of the toll we're taking on the environment for some time now, we've only made baby steps to mend our ways. Also, with the growing middle class in China and India, we're facing a whole generation of billions of people that want to participate in consumer culture and I can't see that working out well at all...but I digress.

 

I don't expect people to agree with most of my opinions about this because admittedly they're going to seem rather Neitzschean if not downright nihilistic, but I'd rather do the few little things I can to make my area a little nicer than throwing my weight behind a cause that I'm not going to have very little effect on and getting discouraged and stressed out by that. Then again, I see very little difference between someone putting all their faith in God or Allah and my saying "nature is going to take the course it wants to take whether we like it or not, and whatever influence we bring to bear on the environment- for better or for worse- will most likely be fleeting and negligible in the long run."

 

By philosophising environmentalism/global warming, you are guilty of the same self centred outlook you spoke about in a previous post. The facts of global warming do not point toward some fatalistic doctrine that we are meant to pollute or aid in the extinction of various species. This is a projection of your own creation.

The facts point towards disastrous consequences for the damage that we have done to this planet post the industrial revolution.

I take your point that we seem to be easily riled up by the idea of extinction. Living and Dying are two concepts that promote an emotive response in a way that the idea of delayed reaction to enviromental damage does not. Still, this is not a good reason to dismiss the issue as an over zealous liberal ideology.

Of course extinction occurs in complete absence of humans influence, however I think you would find that our influence is contributing to significantly more extinction than would occur with out it.

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Wait, I did admit to being selfish.

 

It's sort of like religion...when people tell me that I have to go to church, read the bible and lead a squeaky-clean lifestyle or else I'm going to burn in hell for eternity they lose me. What's wrong with trying to live by the Golden Rule and being the most decent person you can be?

 

I do what I can to keep things clean and I don't actively make the planet worse. That's about as much as anyone should expect, so when they tell me that since I don't buy 100% organic produce or because I wear shoes that were possibly made in a sweat shop or I own something from Ikea that I'm screwing up the planet.

 

That's what I have a problem with. It's gone from doing the right thing to brand awareness, and that was never the point.

 

As far as my belief that all of the good intentions regarding environmental awareness and green culture may be futile, if everyone had started paying attention to this shit 40 years ago when it was first brought up then I might think differently.

 

I don't mind that people are finally beginning to make some changes in their lifestyle but it basically took 40 years of brainwashing to get them to do it, and a good portion of the new environmental laws that have been passed are not aimed at the gross polluters, but at the individual. That's what bugs me.

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Hasnt there been proven rises in temperature for like millions of years. Global warming is a natural part of this worlds cycle just like the ice age, dinosaurs and jesus.

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look, the point is they're hyping the shit out of the single environmental issue that isn't necessarily the one that IS causing PROVEN irreversiable and unknown damage to the biosphere.

 

You don't see the establishment pushing for a ban on GMO crops and animals that are released out with the rest of nature, having unknown effects down the road...you wanna know why the honey bees are dying in the millions more and more each year? and the pine beetles?...instead they try to implement GMO use and consumption globally. (look it up, codex alimentarius)

..................................i mean fuck,they want to grow corn with vaccinations genetically added now.http://www.meatpoultry.com/news/weekly_enews.asp?ArticleID=102157&e=arogers@motherearthnews.com

GMO ANYTHING is far more detrimental on a massive scale to the planet than co2 pollution.

period. anything is worse than co2.

Landfills. oil spills.chem trailing.

like some one said nuclear waste, nuclear weapons.

designer lab viruses!

H1N1!!!

...its no longer a 'natural selection'

 

its a 'man's selection'

 

.......ask yourself now, why are they hyping false environmental issues when there are FAR FAR worse issues facing the earth? why co2? when its a fundamental element to everything living!

completely backwards logic.once you start asking these questions, then you might start overstanding this craziness.

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