Bike Messengers?

[Knim_One]

how does gortex not cut it. i use gortex for everything outdoors and have no gripes with it at all. just get good quality gortex wear and ur not gonna be wet and miserbale all day. from snowboarding to cycling to fishing (waders and jackets) gor tex in my boots, gortex rain hat/

 

plase explain what ur issue with gortex is cause for me and all my friends it works great.

[Knim_One]

also i understand that wool is a good fabric, but its really best to wer a moisture wicking base layer for cold weather exercise. unless its thin merino, i dont want it next to my skin. i go with polypro for the base, whatever wieght fleece for the mid layer, and gortex to wrap it all up

[shai]

If you have to wear Gore-tex all day while messengering, it gets pretty damp from the inside out because you're going from wet and cold outside to heated buildings, so you end up being just as bad off. That's been my personal experience with it, so I stick to light outside layers and wool underneath. Wool keeps you warm and wicks the moisture away from your skin.

[Bojangles]

You gotta' get down with the auto-dry!

 

[MAR]

None of the bike messengers in my town I know ride fix gears, its all road bikes, which makes sense in my opinion.

 

I good friend of mine was a messenger in the city back in the 80's and he said that the old timers all dressed ridiculously. He said one guy was like half cherokee or something and dressed decked out in stereotypical Native American clothing. Another guy he said cut a hole in his helmet for a giant hair spike. He said it was all about sticking it to the man by walking into a law firm looking counter culture.

[Kevin Harris]

Sounds awesome, i've seen a few guys in SF barreling down market street with boxes strapped to the back of their bikes.

[zebradrips]

bunch of my friends do it, keep it a job, not a lifestyle.

 

 

this.

 

plus yeah it sucks when you get hit.

one of my homegirls got hit and dragged by a truck and they drove off and she had no insurance and now she is fucked and can't work.

[milesmoodist]

i used to deliver organics in the city, f' the bike messengers, they're almost as bad as the f'n scooters everywhere creeping between you and the car in the next lane.. "i'm merging mother f'er, wait your turn!!!"

[bahleediddy]

a few of the same patagonia jackets let me know they weren't anything waterproof.

wool socks seem good on a budget. anti wicking whatever socks may be a little more ballin that a basic messenger. who know, never wore em.

[KM4RT]

[shai]

i used to deliver organics in the city, f' the bike messengers, they're almost as bad as the f'n scooters everywhere creeping between you and the car in the next lane.. "i'm merging mother f'er, wait your turn!!!"

 

It was because you were shook and quite possibly gay. We notice things like that.

 

a few of the same patagonia jackets let me know they weren't anything waterproof.

wool socks seem good on a budget. anti wicking whatever socks may be a little more ballin that a basic messenger. who know, never wore em.

 

Patagonia is only good for returning for full cash value. If you find Patagonia (AKA Patagucci) clothing at thrift stores, you can take it to any of their stores and trade it in for new shit to sell on eBay. Or at least that was the hustle that worked when an ex-GF put me onto it five years ago.

 

Smartwool is amazing stuff. A couple pairs of socks and a zip up base layer top are pricey but worth every penny.

 

As far as outerwear, I'd recommend Helly-Hansen or North Face Hydro-vent on a budget, and Arceteryx if you want to spend a few bucks.

[DRUNKEN-ASSHOLE-ONER]

I'll probably still think it's awesome until i get my PAYCHECK though.

 

 

*Fixed.

 

 

This nigga prolly answered the ad in the paper for Heaven Sent! :lol:

 

 

/nobikemessanger.

[shai]

I talked with him, and he's getting a surprisingly good deal considering it's 2009 and he's a rookie.

 

I averaged somewhere around $28,000 a year for a few years when I was on the road...I earned every fucking cent of it, though. Wish I had saved some of that a little smarter. Oh well.

[AREANKAY]

Buy your dispatcher beer.

[shai]

Buy your dispatcher beer.

 

AFTER work.

[john_gacy]

it's like driving a dependable American car.

 

Oxymoron these days?

[abrasivesaint]

one of my buddies recently got a job doing the same thing. roughly in the same area it sounds like you'll be in, maybe your out of the same company or some shit. i love racing around boston on my bmx, my friend who does this messenger shit and is all into the fixed gear crap tells me i ride quicker than a lot of the kids he knows who are into the whole fixed gear riding, having races, being all about their bikes shit.

 

downtown to quincy aint that bad. but then again if you've been doing the shit all day and they throw that at you that would probably be a little aggravating.

[shai]

But AREANKAY brought up a good point and that reminded me of some important stuff I forgot to mention.

 

If you're on commission, you want to get as many good paying tags (what jobs are called in SF) as possible. That's where being nice to your dispatcher comes into play. I've heard a few old school stories where guys would actually tip out the dispatcher $20 or so on payday, which I think is stupid and sets a bad precedent. At the same time there's nothing wrong with buying the guy a beer or smoking a joint with him once in a while after work. A little good will goes a long way.

 

Now here's where it gets tricky. Since you're on a guarantee, the idea is to try to get LESS work, or easier work- routes are a good example. Routes are where you get a bunch of pickups and/or dropoffs and have to have them done by a certain time. They're usually payroll or mail runs and happen early in the morning or right after business hours.

 

You mentioned wanting to try to exceed the guarantee. I can tell you from personal experience that this is tough, because a lot of companies that have a guarantee/hourly wage/salary will try to give you as much work as they can to make it profitable to have you around, but they also have to do the same thing with all the other couriers and in the end everybody works up to about where the per diem is met but no higher. It's somewhat complicated, and unfortunately it's easy for them to screw you on the back end by fudging on what they're paying out per delivery. Then you're doing a hell of a lot of work and not getting paid what some other guy would be making as a commision rider at another company. Right now, starting out, you're getting a decent deal so I'd roll with that...but there's something you can do to make sure you're getting a fair deal over the long term.

 

1. Take the dispatcher aside one day after work and ask him how many guys at the company actually exceed the cap and what it takes to make a little extra (after all, you have eight kids and two ex-wives to take care of). You'll either get a straight answer like "Joe Blow and Rob Knob usually bust it by about $100 a week" or they'll give you a song and dance about how "everyone here has broken it at least once, but we spread it out, yadda yadda yadda." In either case, go talk to the messengers afterwards and find out their side of the story. You'll know pretty quickly whether it's possible to make some gravy or if there's more stick than carrot. If it's the latter, don't use it as a reason to slack off...do a good job so you can use them as a reference, but don't feel compelled to knock yourslef out, either.

 

2. Most companies will give you a printout of what jobs you did with the modifiers (extra charges with the overweight/oversize/waiting time/rush service), time, and book (what they charge) and payout (what you made). If they don't give that out and say something like "You're on a guarantee, it doesn't matter", then DEFINITELY ask for it...they're legally obligated to provide that info to everyone, and if they hedge then there's a good chance that something fishy might be going on with how you're getting paid.

 

Once you get this printout, have a friend that works for an office somewhere to call your company and tell them they're interested in using your service, and to fax/mail/deliver them a CURRENT rate sheet. Get that and use it to keep an eye on how you're getting paid. However, do NOT ask the company for a rate sheet! It is much easier and smarter to get a hold of one by other means, and if they are getting over the last thing you want them to know is that you're on to them. At that point you become a liability and they will make your job a lot harder if they don't just fire you outright.

 

The key is to follow your gut feeling and to be discreet if and when you're checking up on all of this, and to make sure all of your numbers are straight and in writing in the event that you have to confront your employer about it. Like I said, it's tricky and somewhat complicated, but you don't want to get screwed...so that's why I'm telling you all of this- this is how messenger companies get over. I worked in the office as an ordertaker and dispatcher, and I saw it first hand...and I'd say that 90% of the messenger companies out there do this to some extent. I don't want to turn you off to the job, but unfortunately you're a rookie in what is basically a bottom-feeder industry that is getting phased out...and I doubt that anything has changed. In fact, it might be worse. I'm telling you this not to prevent you from getting screwed, but to at least know what's going on so you can get screwed less.

 

I'm realizing now that I've forgotten more about the job than I originally thought, so as I remember things I'll post them here.

[dirtydoses]

all i can add is BaileyworksFTW!

 

 

best bag i've ever had.

[Gnarly Sheen]

I did. In the best and worst weather of Chicago. It was 9 degrees the last days at my job before I moved.

It was fun, then it sucked too when the weather blows.

No benefits, sheisty bosses. Elitists attitudes.

But riding off daily hangovers was great. Seeing a lot of girls and different parts of the city.

 

People that messenger in midwest to east coast weather know whats up with winter bikes, or parts that last only a season because of the salt and sand they put on the streets. Plastic bags over your socks before you put on your shoes. Head to toe layers and layers. Trekking through a lot of inches of snow on road tires. etc.

 

Fun while it lasted. Wouldn't want to do it again.

 

 

 

This you?

I snapped this pic last time I was in chicago. This dude was delivering pizzas or some food on a bike in tight jeans :lol:

[zebradrips]

bike messengers in manhattan don't look like that. maybe in brooklyn.

in the city they're all old jamaican dudes.

who knows about the bird call man?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ9JIJvCd8Q

 

dude's dispatcher was downstairs from my old job, i used to hear this shit all. day. long.

[Avesism]

teef, where are you working? years back, i spent a summer couriering in town. i definitely wan not cut out for it, but it was a job and i had a lot of friends who had been doing it for a while, so i decided to give it a whirl. shit worked out so poorly, it's retahded. anyway, the people i worked for was ground xpress. i don't know if they're even around anymore, but they were over across from the custom house down the bottom of state street. riding was cool, but it was the worst paying job id ever had. come to find out, they were notorious for fucking their couriers over. (can i get an amen, KOH?) it sounds like you're in at a much sweeter company are you at fly over the city, by chance? i remember everyone who worked for them came off with cheese every week.

[AREANKAY]

But AREANKAY brought up a good point and that reminded me of some important stuff I forgot to mention.

 

If you're on commission, you want to get as many good paying tags (what jobs are called in SF) as possible. That's where being nice to your dispatcher comes into play. I've heard a few old school stories where guys would actually tip out the dispatcher $20 or so on payday, which I think is stupid and sets a bad precedent. At the same time there's nothing wrong with buying the guy a beer or smoking a joint with him once in a while after work. A little good will goes a long way.

 

Now here's where it gets tricky. Since you're on a guarantee, the idea is to try to get LESS work, or easier work- routes are a good example. Routes are where you get a bunch of pickups and/or dropoffs and have to have them done by a certain time. They're usually payroll or mail runs and happen early in the morning or right after business hours.

 

You mentioned wanting to try to exceed the guarantee. I can tell you from personal experience that this is tough, because a lot of companies that have a guarantee/hourly wage/salary will try to give you as much work as they can to make it profitable to have you around, but they also have to do the same thing with all the other couriers and in the end everybody works up to about where the per diem is met but no higher. It's somewhat complicated, and unfortunately it's easy for them to screw you on the back end by fudging on what they're paying out per delivery. Then you're doing a hell of a lot of work and not getting paid what some other guy would be making as a commision rider at another company. Right now, starting out, you're getting a decent deal so I'd roll with that...but there's something you can do to make sure you're getting a fair deal over the long term.

 

1. Take the dispatcher aside one day after work and ask him how many guys at the company actually exceed the cap and what it takes to make a little extra (after all, you have eight kids and two ex-wives to take care of). You'll either get a straight answer like "Joe Blow and Rob Knob usually bust it by about $100 a week" or they'll give you a song and dance about how "everyone here has broken it at least once, but we spread it out, yadda yadda yadda." In either case, go talk to the messengers afterwards and find out their side of the story. You'll know pretty quickly whether it's possible to make some gravy or if there's more stick than carrot. If it's the latter, don't use it as a reason to slack off...do a good job so you can use them as a reference, but don't feel compelled to knock yourslef out, either.

 

2. Most companies will give you a printout of what jobs you did with the modifiers (extra charges with the overweight/oversize/waiting time/rush service), time, and book (what they charge) and payout (what you made). If they don't give that out and say something like "You're on a guarantee, it doesn't matter", then DEFINITELY ask for it...they're legally obligated to provide that info to everyone, and if they hedge then there's a good chance that something fishy might be going on with how you're getting paid.

 

Once you get this printout, have a friend that works for an office somewhere to call your company and tell them they're interested in using your service, and to fax/mail/deliver them a CURRENT rate sheet. Get that and use it to keep an eye on how you're getting paid. However, do NOT ask the company for a rate sheet! It is much easier and smarter to get a hold of one by other means, and if they are getting over the last thing you want them to know is that you're on to them. At that point you become a liability and they will make your job a lot harder if they don't just fire you outright.

 

The key is to follow your gut feeling and to be discreet if and when you're checking up on all of this, and to make sure all of your numbers are straight and in writing in the event that you have to confront your employer about it. Like I said, it's tricky and somewhat complicated, but you don't want to get screwed...so that's why I'm telling you all of this- this is how messenger companies get over. I worked in the office as an ordertaker and dispatcher, and I saw it first hand...and I'd say that 90% of the messenger companies out there do this to some extent. I don't want to turn you off to the job, but unfortunately you're a rookie in what is basically a bottom-feeder industry that is getting phased out...and I doubt that anything has changed. In fact, it might be worse. I'm telling you this not to prevent you from getting screwed, but to at least know what's going on so you can get screwed less.

 

I'm realizing now that I've forgotten more about the job than I originally thought, so as I remember things I'll post them here.

 

 

 

I said buy the dispatcher beer jokingly but in reality i have been a bike messenger for about 3 years and after that i picked up a gig dispatching and i have been doing it for the last 6 years. Here are your pointers its simple.

 

-Show the fuck up for work, Yeh your a 1099 employee but if you don't treat it like a 9-5 we don't treat you like a real employee. I got 15 kids on file that can take your place at any given time.

 

-After a few monthes you may get into a comfort zone, When you do dont start turning down work. after all you did sign up for a job that requires you to ride a bike all day. if you start turing down work cause of distance or whatever you really start to drop your rep quick in the office. and remember these are the people that are giving you your work.

 

-Use your brain, You will get dispatched info, from there if you encounter problems take the 3 minutes to asses the situation and figure it the fuck out. you start calling the office for every petty ass problem you encounter its gets to be a pain in the balls. at our shop we have this thing called a 5 minute rule, when a driver or biker calls with a issue we do nothing and wait 5 minutes and 90 percent of the time they call back with the problem solved. but notice first thing they did was call the office with there BS issue telling the dispatcher that they cant deliver, Now if i where a sap i would be on the phone trying to help you when really you have already figured it out. I have no problem helping my stafff but yo i got to dispath and take orders from clients to get your ass more work. not to spend it on the phnoe fining your ass a floor cause you can use a building marguee or whatever have you.

 

- Check your prices with the office and know when the invoicing periods. Its your money and we do our hardest to get your added charges in but shit slips through the cracks and when you come in 3 weeks later after a job has been invoiced there aint shit we can do.

 

 

i could go on for an ages about this shit.

[Harvey Wallbanger]

On the topic of rain gear, it's worth spending the extra cash to get something that's rated both waterproof and breathable. Number (and placement) of pockets is a pretty good criteria to consider when buying as well. North Face, Mountain HardWear, and Marmot all make good, durable gear, but it can be expensive. It's definitely worth taking the time to google a bit, because you can often find shit for half price or better if you wait for a good sale or check ebay.

 

Burton makes some really good quality shells as well, but the quality can vary a lot from line to line.

[autoteller]

well, i showed up for work today on time, started up, etc. and then got a friendly call from the BPD saying that i CANNOT do this since they had found x amount of open cases.

 

went to the police HQ, the place where i was last held, the courthouse, and repeated that for a few hours, and to no avail. even though i'm trying to get out of the 'i have no job and i have a record' rut, they shot me down. the confusing part is that the company itself NEVER told me this, and i did disclose that i was on probation. the good part is that i only have to wait 2 months to start it back up since everything is cleared up then. but what the fuck! such a pain in the ass runaround, and plus i already worked a good amount of yesterday, so this is fucking confusing to me. either way, i'm glad i didn't drop stupid cash on the rain gear yet, since i was JUST about to and was waiting for the money to get deposited into my bank account

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK

 

figures that i get the first job I'VE EVER LIKED THE ENTIRE DAY THROUGH, and then i'm legally not able to do it. fuck this state.

[shai]

What city are you in, AREA? Does your company deal with NICA?

 

IC messengers don't really exist in SF anymore unless they're owner/operators. All the companies that were NICA affiliates got sued and had to hire everyone back as regular employees...a few companies even ended up having to pay their messengers pretty big settlements.

 

I don't think being an IC is necessarily a bad thing, as long as the company is 100% up front and tells the contractor everything they need to know to make an informed decision.

[shai]

well, i showed up for work today on time, started up, etc. and then got a friendly call from the BPD saying that i CANNOT do this since they had found x amount of open cases.

 

went to the police HQ, the place where i was last held, the courthouse, and repeated that for a few hours, and to no avail. even though i'm trying to get out of the 'i have no job and i have a record' rut, they shot me down. the confusing part is that the company itself NEVER told me this, and i did disclose that i was on probation. the good part is that i only have to wait 2 months to start it back up since everything is cleared up then. but what the fuck! such a pain in the ass runaround, and plus i already worked a good amount of yesterday, so this is fucking confusing to me. either way, i'm glad i didn't drop stupid cash on the rain gear yet, since i was JUST about to and was waiting for the money to get deposited into my bank account

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK

 

figures that i get the first job I'VE EVER LIKED THE ENTIRE DAY THROUGH, and then i'm legally not able to do it. fuck this state.

 

Wait, why can't you be a messenger if you have open cases? An old coworker of mine was on parole for second degree murder...hell, I've known at least ten guys over the years who were on parole...not to mention the dozens who were on probation or fighting cases.

 

So basically the cops are telling you that you can't take a legit job when we're in the middle of a recession and your unemployment is about to run out. That's fucking brilliant. I'd go raise some hell with your PO, tell him that you're trying to make a living and the cops are telling you that you can't.

[thrashcat]

well, i showed up for work today on time, started up, etc. and then got a friendly call from the BPD saying that i CANNOT do this since they had found x amount of open cases.

 

went to the police HQ, the place where i was last held, the courthouse, and repeated that for a few hours, and to no avail. even though i'm trying to get out of the 'i have no job and i have a record' rut, they shot me down. the confusing part is that the company itself NEVER told me this, and i did disclose that i was on probation. the good part is that i only have to wait 2 months to start it back up since everything is cleared up then. but what the fuck! such a pain in the ass runaround, and plus i already worked a good amount of yesterday, so this is fucking confusing to me. either way, i'm glad i didn't drop stupid cash on the rain gear yet, since i was JUST about to and was waiting for the money to get deposited into my bank account

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK

 

figures that i get the first job I'VE EVER LIKED THE ENTIRE DAY THROUGH, and then i'm legally not able to do it. fuck this state.

 

fuck dude, that blows.

[autoteller]

that was the FIRST thing i did, since the cunt at the police HQ said i had 'over 10 open cases' (which it wasn't, it had over 10 counts that i was on probation for). i was fucking furious. i mean it's not like i'm gonna catch tags on boxes that i'm delivering. i mean shit, i got popped almost 2 whole goddamn years ago, i've been paying on time, and i've been doing my community service when asked, and it's still biting me in the ass. i've got another meeting with my PO scheduled soon to see if somehow i can get around this, but unfortunately i don't think i can. at least the guy at the company was REALLY understanding, and happy that i had someone else lined up to take my spot when i found out that i couldn't do it. i mean. at the very least, my best friend is gonna be working at the same company in the same area, so we can chill every now and then while on the job. but this is insane. i mean fuck, i'm an IT worker in an economic crisis that can't afford my specific area of IT (software development), and the few that want workers, want +5 years experience, when i have only 1 and 1/2 on the books.

 

motherfuck the state of MA. i've got another message on his machine and a meeting scheduled to see if he can grease the wheels since for all intents and purposes, i'm a 'model' probation recipient that's making steps to turns his life around.

[Harvey Wallbanger]

If that doesn't work out and you're in a pinch, try valeting. They'll take anyone with a driver's license up there, and the money is really good if you can get the right shifts.