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Buying Gold and other investments


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I skipped to the end, so forgive me if this is basically a dead thread.


Gold and silver (precious metals) aren't really investments. Rather they're a hedge. To explain... The Federal Reserve purposely debases our currency each year. They call is inflation, which (simplified) is the direct result of the economy expanding as a result of more debt being created. They try and target something in the range of 3 - 4%, but most people that actually pay attention understand it's generally more in the range of 7 - 8%. That means any money you have saved is losing its purchasing power by the inverse amount of the inflation, compounded yearly. Those of you old enough to have been aware in the 1980s can probably remember how when your mom went grocery shopping and bought $100 of groceries, this would generally take yup the entire trunk and most of the back seat of her car. Now $100 in groceries is more like 2 - 3 plastic bags you can probably carry in one hand.


Note this isn't some sort of conspiracy... Alan Greenspan actually testified before Congress at one point and explained that the Federal Reserve is doing this according to plan. Our economy is entirely based upon a methodical and predictable expansion. That expansion is based upon debt. In other words, for it to actually function, there needs to be an exponential growth in debt each year or the economy stagnates.


Where precious metals come in can be a little hard to wrap you head around, but (simplified), its a container for wealth. Wealth is almost universally exchanged for currency, which is why it is almost denominated as such. If you convert the value of something into another vessel such as precious metals, you'll note that the cost of things really hasn't changed significantly for most of recorded history. For example, if you look at the cost of a barrel of crude oil, valued out in ounces of silver (and not US Dollars), you'll see that in the 1960's it would have cost about the same as today, if you were to again value it in ounces of silver. The only thing that has changed is the purchasing power of the dollar as applied to it. To wrap your head around that example, back in the early 1960s a gallon of gas was about a quarter. A quarter in those days was made of 90% silver. That 90% silver (junk silver coin) today is worth about $3.25 (check eBay or wherever)... A gallon of gas, give or take is worth about $3.25 today.


You can run examples like this all day long... What a house cost in the 1960s versus that exact house today. As well as other commodities such as bushels of wheat, tons of copper, etc... All of them will roughly come out costing the same in relation to each other as they do today, IF you change the valuation of it into something other then the dollar (or any other currency). So whether that be paying for a house in ounces of gold or in barrels of crude oil, the only significant change is the purchasing power of the dollar and not the value of the item in relation to any other vessel for holding wealth.


So to loop back to the beginning... You invest money to make money and then convert your savings into something like silver so that the wealth is preserved. Most other stores of wealth work exactly the same way... Property for example. If you can afford a middle of the road home and you purchase it... As long as the denomination of its value is in US Dollars, selling it in the future will give you far more dollars, but those extra dollars at that time, will basically have the same purchasing power as today, ie: be enough to buy another middle of the road home. If instead, you put that money in the bank and saved it, you'd lose the 7 - 8% purchasing power, compounded over time for however long it is. So using the same example, that house in the 1960s that was $35,000 but today is worth $350,000 means that had you saved the money instead, today you could only afford to pay for 10% of that house because the purchasing power has been reduced as a result of the inflation (or debasement of the currency).


So in other words, your silver wont necessarily return more (once you smooth out the peaks and valleys that are most often artificially manipulated) in the future, but rather ensure that your accumulated wealth stored in silver is stolen slowly from you through the bullshit tricks the Fed plays to slowly steal your wealth.


Make sense now?

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Great post Misteraven. In your opinion what is a better option to grow your wealth? I know some pretty intelligent people that buy into that idea of exchanging your extra cash for precious metals and it's weird to think that they're wrong, but what you said makes sense.


You know what amazes me is that if you had bought $1000 worth of bitcoins in 2010 you'd be basically a millionaire right now. So many people slept on this idea and are still sleeping on it. There are even entire datacenters right now dedicated to microtransactions where you buy a bitcoin at a certain price in one currency and quickly exchange it for another currency that is worth a bit more than the currency that you bought the bitcoin for in the first place on the exchange rate. You do this, I dunno, thousands of times a day and you're basically printing money. It's the exact same idea as microtransaction stock trading. Yeah, the amounts gained are small in increment but when you do a ton of them a day you end up with a lot of accumulated wealth. The computers and networking equipment to do this are very expensive.


Also, to anyone interested in bitcoins... forget about trying to mine them with your hardware or any piece of "mining hardware" you can currently purchase. There are entire datacenters dedicated to mining in foreign countries that you cannot and will not compete with without spending as much money as they have or more on hardware. The cost of mining a bitcoin and breaking even on the cost of getting one has to factor in the cost of the electricity spent to get it with your computer and the price of the hardware used to mine it. The math works out to where you will almost never get the money you spent on the hardware out of it once you've paid for the electricity. I've said for a long time that the people making money in the bitcoin mining industry are the electrical engineers that are designing mining rigs and selling them to people in exchange for bitcoin. If you look at the "price" of a lot of mining rigs they aren't even listed in dollars or another currency, they're almost always listed in terms of bitcoin. Which means the rig that costs 1 bitcoin today might be worth $1000 but if you want to buy it tomorrow you might be paying $2000 for the same hardware. Meanwhile the guy that sold it to someone yesterday for $1000 in bitcoin (1BTC) now has $2000 because the cost of a bitcoin went up. The cost of his hardware design and manufacturing process has stayed the same. There's no shortage of people that can be tricked with this game.

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Thanks, yeah... If anyone is truly interested in economics, I suggest this book: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/047052670X/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Honestly its so simple, a 6th grader can easily wrap their heads around. Once you start to unravel the secrets, you quickly begin to see that its purposefully made complicated as there's a handful of people making a shit ton of money off it and the last thing they want is for the masses to see what a scam it is or how much of it is dependent on duping the average person to maintain a very fucked up system. Example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_economics is basically the answer you get that essentially boils down to a debt based economy. That ironically, the success is tied to the predictable and exponential growth of debt as a measuring stick for how 'healthy' the economy is.


On a related note, our currency, is a promissory note... Its not actually a container of value, but rather an increment of debt... Many years ago, an elite group of bankers and industry tycoons got together and decided that rather that have true currency backed by precious metal, that instead they'd issue promissory notes that are increments of debt. Metals backed currency meant at any time, you could go to the bank and exchange your paper currency for a set amount of precious metal. Later it meant that this new private group would instead change some wording on the currency and restructure the game so that each note meant you were borrowing the amount from them and agree to pay it back with whatever interest they set via the Federal Reserve (misnomer as it is privately owned and not a branch of Government). This group can print up as much of it as they want at anytime, with essentially no oversight and little accountability as they are protected from Government audit and all of us by default agree to pay this back, plus interest. Since interest is built in by default and the only acceptable method to pay it back is more of the same currency, it's obviously impossible to ever pay this debt back (due to the interest accumulated). In order to service this debt at all, you need more of the currency (and thus more debt), in a never ending cycle of exponential debt.


Because we don't service this debt directly, nobody really thinks about it. Meanwhile the banks are money at a certain interest rate and in turn, loaning it to you at a higher interest rate, which in turn trickles into all aspects of our lives and drives the cost of all monetary transactions up. Every single time you make a credit card purchase, new money enters the system out of thin air which inflates the system further, without even the trouble of printing up a promissory note. When you follow it to its absolute conclusion, essentially the Federal Reserve is bleeding a small percentage of value from every single transaction, every single time one takes place.


You can obviously see how its a doomed system as eventually you reach a point of unsustainablity where its no longer possible to service the debt. Likewise, you also run into issues with rigging the game. Think about a game of monopoly where the player gets to be the bank and at anytime can draw from the bank or print more money. Every other player is eventually doomed to loose.


In real life the Federal Reserve will change rules such as reducing the interest rate to zero so that they can keep the charade going, or buy bad debt with money they can print up (or these days add as a line item on a spreadsheet) and when things pickup, sell it back to us (new debt) so that the whole thing continues a little while longer. All the while, we'll sit and scream at China for manipulating their currency to make them more competitive in the global markets, while we're the undisputed champion in money manipulation. Yet behind closed doors, china will buy our debt with their own manipulated money pumping new energy into our market so the game can continue on a little longer. It doesn't become notable until a country calls in its tab and requests payment. When this happens, payment is done in the transfer of gold bars. If you dig deep enough through news, you can sometimes find articles that go into all kinds of complicated detail about how a payment wasn't able to be made or is being delayed.

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This is a subject I've been very interested in lately. After finding financial success and building a little net worth, I've considered moving closer to my family in Upstate NY, hoarding precious metals and weapons just incase. I've thought to myself, if shit really goes down to where people start trading gold & silver again there will be absolutely nothing in place to stop someone from taking said precious metals from me. If society ever collapses to a barbaric state, your only hope is to have enough off grid infrastructure around to remain self sufficient, and enough weapons in place to remain that way.


When our system inevitably collapses, I honestly don't think it will devolve into violent apocalyptic chaos. Like many other financial collapses in modern times, there will still be the more fortunate people, and the natural system always established to keep them fortunate. One's best hope is to have the proper assets in place to remain in the more fortunate crowd after the collapse. While I think things like gold, and silver will have value no matter what the situation, it's probably more important to own things like land, durable goods, and items that will actually useful in a famine economy.


This is why I've been investing heavily in cryptocurrencies over the last 2 years. Honestly, You can't fly to another country, or even move around within the country realistically holding a significant amount gold. Even now, there's things like asset forfeiture and other risks in place that make bringing your wealth with you extremely risky. If you want to take your crypto with you, in most cases all you'll need is to remember a 12 word phrase. These things are designed to function in a trustless system, meaning there's no need to ever trust anyone a banks, or government to retain your capitol and it's value.


The best part about them is how much these investments have grown recently, and the fact that we're on the cusp of them going somewhat mainstream. If there's no collapse, I've put myself in a better financial position. If there is a huge collapse, I'll be prepared to continue in comfort. I wish I would have listened to Casek back in the day, who's probably a bitcoin millionaire right now. If anyone is interested in learning how/why these currencies actually work, I've put together a playlist of videos that describe the technology behind these systems in detail at


Here's a sample:


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@Mercer there's plenty of precedent as to what happens in a financial collapse. Your comment, "I honestly don't think it will devolve into violent apocalyptic chaos" has already been proven as recently as the collapse in Argentina in the 1990s. What's happening in Brazil right now comes pretty close to a collapse. Tons of violence to go around including lots of murder and mayhem. To think America might be different is foolish and commonly referred to as perception bias when people ignore what happening around them. Not calling you a fool in any way, simply stating that you don't have to wonder or guess, just look at other examples.


Not many had shit to say when Obama discussed the idea of Government backed 401k's during the State of The Union a while back. It was shopped under the guise of the Government trying to protect your wealth from volatility in the markets from the partial collapse in 2008. Reality is that they've completely stolen all money from Social Security and need a new pot to raid. It'll start as optional and eventually become mandatory because at this point, other countries aren't even willing to buy US Debt. Only reason shit is holding together is because through globalization, most of the world has a strong vested interest in us maintaining or their economy collapses along with ours.


I'm not saying it'll be Mad Max crazy, but watching the shit happening in places like Furgusen, Berkely, etc you can already see things happening. It's somewhat isolated, but its absolutely building and there are absolutely heavy pressures that are trying to make it happen. I don't have a crystal ball or am privvy to any deep secrets, but I don't think you need much of either to hazard a guess that just before a complete collapse you'll see a massive power move to for the last grab of whats left. I suspect we're seeing the beginning of this now.


When the Government was running the charade about the debt ceiling, you saw what happened when EBT cards weren't refilled. There was news of some Walmarts being so trashed they literally tore them down rather than repairing damage. What happens when you have literally 55%+ of the country dependent on handouts to live and those stop happening over night? Especially after years of all of us being conditioned to hate each other for whatever reason (sex, sexual orientation, skin color, class)?


Personally I have little doubt we'll see another civil war in this country. It'll be more surprising to me if it actually doesn't happen.


As far as the economy, its actually fairly simple to extrapolate what will happen and likely when it'll happen. We know how much the government brings in via taxes because that's public info. Likewise, we know what they spend (for the most part) because that is also public info. They stopped reporting liabilities during the Clinton Administration, but we can pretty extrapolate that liability since there's many years of data to pull the growth curve from. I forget the exact year now, but it was in the 2020s where we reach the pint that the largest line item on the Federal Budget is no longer military spending (DoD), but rather the interest payment on our debt (not even the debt itself). Now, try and scale that down to the human level so you can wrap your head around it... What happens when the interest payments on your personal debt become the largest bill out of all the shit you pay for each month, surpassing the rent or mortgage on your home which is the largest item for most people? How long do you suppose you can sustain that without pulling new money from elsewhere or defaulting on the debt? The scenario I read was based off data from Government accounting (public info) and based upon conservative estimates without taking into consideration large new expenditures like war or any national disaster. Dude, its not fringe economists predicting an economic collapse anymore, but rather a mathematical certainty that just about every economists admits to these days. Only grey area is what will happen when a first world economy collapses bring down the entire world economy.


Now that being said, has anyone noticed how China and several other countries are buying up gold at significant rates. There are even many rumors / conspiracies or perhaps evidence depending on your POV, that China is positioning to revert to a gold backed monetary system that would be a power play to move OPEC from the petro dollar into something more stable, like metals backed currency. That would make the entire world trade in China's currency while immediately crashing the US economy. You can also look into the BRICKS agreement which was an alliance between several countries to no longer trade in US Dollars, but rather BRICKS, which was a credit system agreed to between members. Lastly, you can also look into how China and Japan now have an agreement to trade with each other directly without using Dollars at all which is a major precedent made more significant because they represent the number 2 and number 3 largest foreign economies behind the USA, which I believe might have already slipped to the number 2 spot or is about to.


Crazy shit man. Meanwhile all of us over here are arguing with each other over women's bathrooms, Nazi's and whether or not Black Lives Matter more than anyone else's. Literally, we're watching a strategy (Divide and Conquer), thought up in the 5th Century BC being carried out flawlessly here in the USA. While we sit around arguing about a 'resurgence in white pride', you literally have scum bags like George Soros bank rolling both sides of that argument. (Cliff notes on Soro's is he survived WW2 being a liason between the Nazi's and Jews, pocketing millions of dollars in the process. He's also banned from going to England because he almost collapsed the UK banking system single handedly. Some people will call him a financier or a hedge fund magnate but he made his fortune from the Nazi's and then componded it exponentially by betting against individual economies and then using his fortune and political connections to destabilize them). Again, its all public knowledge if you dig deep enough to get past all the mainstream media (that he and his colleagues own 90% of) and all the websites sanitized through his alliances with certain key people in tech, which we all know has been consolidated down to a handful of companies for the most part.


Anyhow, sounds crazy until you start putting aside perception bias and turn off the news.


On that note, I very much recommend anyone that gives a shit or at least is interested in what I'm saying to listen to this Podcast on Dichotomy. It's about an hour long and very straight forward. It is not at all subjective as the person presents a logical argument that is backed up by facts you can look up and verify for yourself. Spoiler: Once you listen to it, you'll understand the game being played and likely no longer read or watch the news.


Link: http://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/the-great-lie-of-dichotomy


On a personal note, I'd like to disclaim that for those that don't know and are wondering... I'm not some crazy conspiracy theorist or doomsday prepper. I'm not living in some fuckin bunker stocking up canned food and MRE's. I believe in living the best quality life I can and to mitigate hard times as best as I can so long as it doesn't come at the expense of living a happy, healthy, quality life. That being said, I did recently move to the mountains of NW Montana, am working to setup organic and self sufficient home gardening and farming of livestock and have enough guns and ammo to make the nightly news cycle in most major cities. I made this move (recently) because I found myself thinking if I wont the lotto, I'd buy a fresh ass ranch. I truly enjoy shooting (precision and tactical shooting especially) and spent 15 years living in NYC and browsing the aisles at Dean and Deluca grocery because even during my best years I could barely afford it. I'm 100% hedging my bets that shit will continue on its path and eventually fall apart completely, but I'm living a quality life first and foremost.


Here's some photographic proof of it. If you want more evidence, follow my personal Insta at https://instagram.com/allenbenedikt



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I do think it will be somewhat horrendous, but I don't think civilization (or the internet) will end. That's one of the reasons I like the idea of having cryptocurrency and the ability to GTFO of here if need be. We've got very close/trusted peeps in Argentina, and Barcelona should the need arise and enough emergency funds to be able to make it out and start over with what we've got stashed away. To be honest, I'm living an unsustainable/unhealthy lifestyle right now of overworking to stash away and prepare.


I'm fully aware of the trillions our government we're unable to pay back, and the impending collapse the bailouts have postponed and honestly anyone would be crazy not to see it coming. Hoping to get in a few more good years of stashing away crypto but honestly, If I semi retired to a nice corner of the world right now with just enough to get by, as long as I've got my girl with me I'll be happy.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Yes indeed. Though traffic has been up steadily, its modest. We've been discussing amongst the mods what can be done to start promoting again now that it seems the forum is working well again.


Anyone have any suggestions, beyond allowing it to just keep growing organically?

I believe spreading the word is the best possible approach. That's how most of us ended up here in the first place o think. Well channel zero in particular. As for the forum in its entirety it seems to be doing just fine. It's this place that still seems off. I'm excited to fucking sit down and figure out how to be a gif using idiot or simply start hitting pies and whatever else I can upload photos to. That's always been a favorite of mine. Shooting the shit and meeting motherfuckers from all over is pretty awesome.

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Can somebody explain why BTC almost hit 20k this morning? I have heard it should go back down to normal when Future Market (somebody school me on this as well) launches this month. I got very little invested in BTC, LTC and ETH.


My boss is telling me XRP is the way to go though.

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  • 5 years later...

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