gun thread

[glorydays]

i've been noticing that personal defense weapons (PDWs) are becoming all the rage

 

ridiculously cool looking weapons...coupled with the new caliber du jour: 300 blackout

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by glorydays

[misteraven]

23 minutes ago, glorydays said:

i've been noticing that personal defense weapons (PDWs) are becoming all the rage

 

ridiculously cool looking weapons...coupled with the new caliber du jour: 300 blackout

These are generally referred to as rifle caliber pistols. Guessing that they'll likely revise the ATF declaration on the braces since they're really just a work around for the $200 tax stamp needed for an SBR, but they definitely look cool. And indeed, lot of people suddenly interested in 300BLK. Been going back and forth with @Mercer about it lately. It's a really cool round, but I think a lot of people are buying guns chambered in that that really don't understand what they're getting into. The reference you posted above for example... 300BLK is essentially a .308 bullet (7.62x39) inserted into a necked down and reshaped .223 casing. Since the casing is smaller, it only allows for a lighter load, which in turn means that the heavier bullet is fired at slower velocity than it usually is. The net result is that you have a fairly large bullet traveling at subsonic speeds, making it awesome for suppression, but likewise, also limited to fairly short distances. So that means it has a very specific application of CQB and not much else. I think part of the popularity is that you can quickly switch over an AR to 300BLK by simply changing the barrel. The magazine anb BCG remains the same, so its super easy. This way you can get a second upper receiver, setup with a 300BLK barrel and appropriately sized rail with a supressor already attached and switch between that the usual AR upper by popping out the pins. Dont even need tools.

 

Not supressing it is a waste of ammo. Its also optimized for a 10.5" barrel so that you can get it just up to the maximum of subsonic velocity and enough twist to stabilize that larger bullet at slower speed. 300BLK is not super common so its super expensive to shoot and only a handful of companies are actually modifying the .308 bullet to expand properly for this application. Example: https://www.grindhardammo.com/cproduct/10/subsonic-maximum-expansion ($40 for 20 rounds.)

 

That said, when run properly, its a freakin devastating round, but not really something for fucking off at the range with.

[glorydays]

5 minutes ago, misteraven said:

These are generally referred to as rifle caliber pistols. Guessing that they'll likely revise the ATF declaration on the braces since they're really just a work around for the $200 tax stamp needed for an SBR, but they definitely look cool. And indeed, lot of people suddenly interested in 300BLK. Been going back and forth with @Mercer about it lately. It's a really cool round, but I think a lot of people are buying guns chambered in that that really don't understand what they're getting into. The reference you posted above for example... 300BLK is essentially a .308 bullet (7.62x39) inserted into a necked down and reshaped .223 casing. Since the casing is smaller, it only allows for a lighter load, which in turn means that the heavier bullet is fired at slower velocity than it usually is. The net result is that you have a fairly large bullet traveling at subsonic speeds, making it awesome for suppression, but likewise, also limited to fairly short distances. So that means it has a very specific application of CQB and not much else. I think part of the popularity is that you can quickly switch over an AR to 300BLK by simply changing the barrel. The magazine anb BCG remains the same, so its super easy. This way you can get a second upper receiver, setup with a 300BLK barrel and appropriately sized rail with a supressor already attached and switch between that the usual AR upper by popping out the pins. Dont even need tools.

 

Not supressing it is a waste of ammo. Its also optimized for a 10.5" barrel so that you can get it just up to the maximum of subsonic velocity and enough twist to stabilize that larger bullet at slower speed. 300BLK is not super common so its super expensive to shoot and only a handful of companies are actually modifying the .308 bullet to expand properly for this application. Example: https://www.grindhardammo.com/cproduct/10/subsonic-maximum-expansion ($40 for 20 rounds.)

 

That said, when run properly, its a freakin devastating round, but not really something for fucking off at the range with.

would you get one, yourself? Cali is just now embracing non-gas AR style rifles for sale, i hoping that the state changes it's mind about the definition of a "pistol". I'd like to get a PDW.

@misteravendo you load your own rounds??

[glorydays]

 

[misteraven]

4 minutes ago, glorydays said:

would you get one, yourself? Cali is just now embracing non-gas AR style rifles for sale, i hoping that the state changes it's mind about the definition of a "pistol". I'd like to get a PDW.

@misteravendo you load your own rounds??

I have a Noveske AR that I turned into a 300BLK pistol, so yeah. And yeah, I've loaded many of my own rounds. Loading / Reloading allows you to shoot a lot cheaper and if you take the time to do it right, you can create match grade or better rounds. You being in CA, you're fucked. There's shit you can do and whatever franken gun you manage to hack together to be in compliance will likely be illegal the next election cycle. You'll need to move to a free state.

 

So the photo you posted is a little misleading. The far right is 5.56 (M855 or NATO SS109) since you can see the green tip. They're basically steel core, 62 grain bullets loaded into slightly modified casing, which is part of what differentiates it from .223 along with the powder load and oddball primers they use for NATO shit. The 300BLK example is specialized to 300BLK in this shot. That synthetic black tip is to allow for specific expansion. Sort of like a tip placed on a hollow point so it can maintain better ballistics. The 308 is just a standard 308, but most the time is the same exact bullet as what loaded into 300BLK. Like I said, its starting to get more specialized with the popularity of it, but the origins of that round are based on what I described above.

[KILZ FILLZ]

Interesting stuff. Very knowledgeable 

[glorydays]

15 minutes ago, misteraven said:

I have a Noveske AR that I turned into a 300BLK pistol, so yeah. And yeah, I've loaded many of my own rounds. Loading / Reloading allows you to shoot a lot cheaper and if you take the time to do it right, you can create match grade or better rounds. You being in CA, you're fucked. There's shit you can do and whatever franken gun you manage to hack together to be in compliance will likely be illegal the next election cycle. You'll need to move to a free state.

 

So the photo you posted is a little misleading. The far right is 5.56 (M855 or NATO SS109) since you can see the green tip. They're basically steel core, 62 grain bullets loaded into slightly modified casing, which is part of what differentiates it from .223 along with the powder load and oddball primers they use for NATO shit. The 300BLK example is specialized to 300BLK in this shot. That synthetic black tip is to allow for specific expansion. Sort of like a tip placed on a hollow point so it can maintain better ballistics. The 308 is just a standard 308, but most the time is the same exact bullet as what loaded into 300BLK. Like I said, its starting to get more specialized with the popularity of it, but the origins of that round are based on what I described above.

Do you swage also? Bullets from scratch? I have a friend teaching me how to swage lead myself.

[Mercer]

Me personally, I don't see myself using a shorter barrel rifle for anything more than home defense. something short that can duck around corners quickly, and not cause massive hearing loss. I'd like to get a .308 for long range shooting/hunting and a 300 blk for short range. Outside of plinking targets I don't see .223 as having any advantages outside of cost. Still think for the vast majority of home/personal defense applications the 300 is a superior round due to both it's subsonic performance, and the weight (and subsequent impact) of the bullet itself.  Most gunfights scenarios I can see being relevant (to defense only) would be close range. I never see myself needing to snipe long range for defensive purposes, nor is boogaloo, or fighting on a battlefield in general anything I see being relevant to my needs.  

 

Honestly, I'm in a rare situation, although I've always been pro 2A I've never actually owned a gun legally, when I was a kid I traded crackheads for a .38 snub, and a .380. Anyway, now that I'm more sensible myself, and in a somewhat more sensible state than NY, I'm getting my concealed carry in order before this fall, granted I can't even get a driver's license in this state yet so fingers crossed. If I'm dropping bread on something nice, it's most likely going to be a hand cannon if I can find one here I like. Want to try some of the available 10mm 1911 models, and 10mm G40 4th gen  just because I shot a super nice 1911 chambered in 10mm recently that felt 100% perfect in the hand.

 

Might sound weird but I just want something for the trails incase I come across something furry that my wife an I I can't outrun, or sink in a rear naked choke into. I don't feel threatened at all by humans (yet), it's usually the other way around, but I do think it's safer in a legal context to have a concealed carry permit, and not need it. Honestly, open carry in urban, or suburban areas is poor taste IMO unless you're an armed guard, or Joe Exotic, etc. Even though I'm anti state, and pro 2A I really dislike seeing these armed cosplay protests, feel like somebody is going to get themselves hurt, or worse and possibly bring down further restrictions on freedom for the rest of us.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Mercer

[KILZ FILLZ]

Any reason you’re not considering a scattergun for HD? @Mercer

 

decibels the driver?

[Mercer]

I don't think I'd feel comfortable pulling the trigger on a scatter gun indoors. Especially in my own home.

[KILZ FILLZ]

Damaging personal possessions or wall penetration? I’m not following how that would be different with a rifle? @Mercer

[Mercer]

I'd just rather clean up after multiple rifle discharges,  than a single sawed off/scatter shotgun discharge, especially if I hit what I'm aiming for. That's not to say I wouldn't mind having a nice shotgun for skeet, hunting, etc. 

[KILZ FILLZ]

@Mercerah yea that makes sense then. Shooting skeet is really fun. Way more enjoyable than shooting paper/metal plates. The clean up after an hour or two of skeet is a bitch tho! Even though they are mostly biodegradable, it’s a good look to do your best to pack out everything you packed in. 
 

building, shooting, cleaning and talking firearms is a fun hobby. 

[glorydays]

3 hours ago, Mercer said:

I'd just rather clean up after multiple rifle discharges,  than a single sawed off/scatter shotgun discharge, especially if I hit what I'm aiming for. That's not to say I wouldn't mind having a nice shotgun for skeet, hunting, etc. 

here in cali, we invest in rubber bullets mixed with our home defense ammo

[Mercer]

Reminds me of the old birdshot first followed by buckshot/slugs.

[KILZ FILLZ]

I share walls with neighbors so shot would be my best option. Blowing away a sleeping kid in the next apt over because a 9mm blew through the dry wall is a case that would be tough for any attorney. 

[glorydays]

3 hours ago, Mercer said:

Reminds me of the old birdshot first followed by buckshot/slugs.

I would rather they not try to charge me with murder cuz it's a liberal state

[glorydays]

been considering getting a new holster for the range, and (edited), a conceal carry

both by the same company

 

shapeshift molle holster

 

 

sport tuck band holster

 

Edited May 10, 2020 by glorydays

[KILZ FILLZ]

3 hours ago, glorydays said:

I would rather they not try to charge me with murder cuz it's a liberal state

“I thought he had a gun. I want my lawyer.”

[glorydays]

10 hours ago, KILZ FILLZ said:

“I thought he had a gun. I want my lawyer.”

rubber bullets will save both lives lol

[KILZ FILLZ]

Tru

[KILZ FILLZ]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12332682
 

NZ ‘bans guns’ in 2018 after that live streamed mosque shooting

 

in 2019 NZ had their most gun related deaths in a decade

city councilor quoted in article says problem might be “gangs”

 

so, make guns criminal, only criminals have guns. 
 

who coulda thunk it? 🤷‍♂️

 

[abrasivesaint]

[RUNINE]

Is this guns

[RUNINE]

[the.crooked]

Despite my politics, I finally embraced my Texas roots and am starting a build. Considering all stripped lowers are out... everywhere I felt lucky enough to find this available:

https://aimsurplus.com/aero-precision-223-5-56-atlas-s-one-mid-length-upper-receiver/
 

 

 

Done an ungodly amount of reading. Feeling confident in build plans. I'm in CA, so the choice between featureless and fixed mag was an interesting one to decide between. I'm going fixed mag with components that are easy to uninstall.

 

Edited July 14, 2020 by the.crooked

[the.crooked]

All that said, I'd love some reviews from anyone who's worked with any of the CA compliant builds, i.e. Kingpins, CrossArmory SafeMag, ARMAGLOCK, etc. 

I've seen a few configurations, and I've got a fair idea of what I'm going to do, but would value any input.

But basics, are:

Aero Complete Upper  (clearly from above) (fine with their heavy barrel and mid length gas system
Aero Lower

Not too worried about trigger, or other components as I've got a small list going, but most things aside from receiver (which I'm set on Aero with), it's mostly just a waiting game on what comes back in stock first.

[earmuffs]

Anyone else pocket carry?  Love my Glock 43, but Too big.  I hate having shit in my pockets. the two .380s I have I hardly notice in my pocket.  

[KILZ FILLZ]

On 7/14/2020 at 7:46 PM, the.crooked said:

All that said, I'd love some reviews from anyone who's worked with any of the CA compliant builds, i.e. Kingpins, CrossArmory SafeMag, ARMAGLOCK, etc. 

I've seen a few configurations, and I've got a fair idea of what I'm going to do, but would value any input.

But basics, are:

Aero Complete Upper  (clearly from above) (fine with their heavy barrel and mid length gas system
Aero Lower

Not too worried about trigger, or other components as I've got a small list going, but most things aside from receiver (which I'm set on Aero with), it's mostly just a waiting game on what comes back in stock first.

I’ve never done anything fixed mag. Got fixed stocks and no vertical fore grips. I shoot prone or bench when I’m out so the foregrip isn’t really an issue for me. The pistol grip is the thing that took me some time to Fine tune. Those kydex wraps are mehhhhh. I started shooting rifles and shotguns so moving to a different grip wasn’t that big of an issue, especially with an ambidextrous safety selector. The maglock/bullet button thing isn’t really that intrusive. 

 

 

here is one of the grips I use. It’s ok. With the ambi selector you can use it with your thumb without having to adjust your grip. Thumb rests right on top of the stippled ledge you see directly below the selector there. Ergonomics similar to a rifle stock. 

 

 

 

 

I’d suggest instead of getting a single lower build kit, see if you can snag a small armorers kit. Those small detents go flying and the springs can get bent kind of easily. Will be nice to have a few spares on deck. May as well go ambidextrous everything if you can. 
 

ive done three stripped lowers and one stripped upper, I don’t think I will ever build an upper again. I’m a fit mechanic but having an explosion that close to my head is something I feel much more confident knowing a gunsmith put everything together. The first few rds going through the upper I built were a little hair raising. Everything turned out fine though. 
 

your shits gonna get knocked around and dinged up if you’re using it. So if you scratch or ding anything while building the lower don’t beat yourself up over it too bad

[the.crooked]

50 minutes ago, KILZ FILLZ said:

I’ve never done anything fixed mag. Got fixed stocks and no vertical fore grips. I shoot prone or bench when I’m out so the foregrip isn’t really an issue for me. The pistol grip is the thing that took me some time to Fine tune. Those kydex wraps are mehhhhh. I started shooting rifles and shotguns so moving to a different grip wasn’t that big of an issue, especially with an ambidextrous safety selector. The maglock/bullet button thing isn’t really that intrusive. 

 

here is one of the grips I use. It’s ok. With the ambi selector you can use it with your thumb without having to adjust your grip. Thumb rests right on top of the stippled ledge you see directly below the selector there. Ergonomics similar to a rifle stock. 

 

I’d suggest instead of getting a single lower build kit, see if you can snag a small armorers kit. Those small detents go flying and the springs can get bent kind of easily. Will be nice to have a few spares on deck. May as well go ambidextrous everything if you can. 
 

ive done three stripped lowers and one stripped upper, I don’t think I will ever build an upper again. I’m a fit mechanic but having an explosion that close to my head is something I feel much more confident knowing a gunsmith put everything together. The first few rds going through the upper I built were a little hair raising. Everything turned out fine though. 
 

your shits gonna get knocked around and dinged up if you’re using it. So if you scratch or ding anything while building the lower don’t beat yourself up over it too bad

 I've held/shot a few with the Kydex wraps and I hated it. Honestly I'd rather not worry about considerations of what's legal and what's not given the "throw against the wall and see what sticks" format of knowing what is legal through court actions. I don't think I'm going to be shooting solely prone or sitting, so I'm pretty set on pistol grip/more features and a fixed mag.

I definitely plan on making what I can ambidextrous. Appreciate the commentary on not a single lower kit. I've decided to take some advice I've read and start with a standard trigger before upgrading later on.

My main concerns where I didn't quite trust myself were the FA, gas system, feed ramp, etc. however, I think by getting a complete upper that has no FA (would love to hear a debate about necessity or not given Stoner's own opinions about it) and assembled by the manufacturer it limits the likelihood that I can fuck something up catastrophically. I'm pretty handy and have a strong attention to detail so I trust myself to do the rest. Buffers, and BCGs seem straightforward enough.

Not too worried about scratches, etc. It's a tool that's engineered to last and withstand, not something I'm framing.

Really appreciate the thoughts and perspective.