gun thread

[+plus+]

okay now im really changing my tune. Dear lord. 

[6Pennies]

On 7/23/2018 at 11:53 AM, +plus+ said:

So the gun rabbithole is dangerous to my wallet. Putting the idea on ice until savings look healthy. 

Still havent been to range to try out the assorted pistols 

Check out the Used Market. Gun guys always selling stuff to buy up to something else.  Lots of excellent condition weapons for great prices.

[+plus+]

dumb question and I can;t google on work computer (I really shouldnt be on here but that ship has sailed) 

Is that all in person, I am assuming not online? 

 

[6Pennies]

5 minutes ago, +plus+ said:

dumb question and I can;t google on work computer (I really shouldnt be on here but that ship has sailed) 

Is that all in person, I am assuming not online? 

 

i'd say 50/50.  Lots of private sales in AZ. (Be sure to check your local laws.) . But Pawn Shops and practically all Gun Shops have a Used shelf, and they could probably track down something specific for you as well.

 

[misteraven]

Definitely don't think its 50/50. I do not believe its possible to collect stats, but I can say that most of my stuff was bought online because that's usually the best deals. In fact, http://www.gunbroker.com has been a great place to find stuff at great prices once you know what you want and have the time, money and patience to wait for the right opportunity.

 

When buying online, its really no different than buying from a store. All guns must be shipped to an FFL unless you're sending to yourself. That a federal requirement. What this means is that when you buy something regulated online, once you pay, you send the seller your local FFL (usually a local gun shop or someone federally licensed to be in that business) and the seller than arranges transport to them. The FFL notifies you when your purchase arrives and you go pick it up. Most people will swing by their FFL once the item ships and run paperwork so that technically by the time it arrives, you're already past the waiting period. But all that said, you still have to fill out the typical forms, which then get submitted for a background check. 

 

Obviously in places where there's a lot of shooters, you might come up on someone local that has what you want for the price you're willing to pay and so long as it occurs within the state, you don't need to run it through an FFL (though they might still opt to do it). For a private transaction, yes it is true that you can sell someone a firearm and then just hand it over without running a check, but my experiences have always been that people are very weary of it and will almost always ask or look for evidence that you're solid to own one. Considering that if you sell someone a gun and they do something stupid with it, among the many things investigated is where it came from and thus invite trouble back on yourself, you'd have to be an idiot to just sell to anyone willing to pay for it.

 

Criminals very likely aren't trying to pay retail on shit and buy it through standard channels like this and likewise, sellers aren't trying to deal with shady people and risk getting in serious trouble themselves. Especially when the market is super strong and there's plenty of legit people you can sell to.

 

Anyhow, just wanted to put that out there as media so often misrepresents this and unless you're actually into guns and have bought a few, you wouldn't really know how it actually works and might buy into the bullshit you hear in the media or from anti gun groups.

 

 

[misteraven]

Oh yeah, when doing an FFL transfer as described above, there is almost always a fee involved from your FFL dealer. After all, they need to get paid for their involvement in the transaction and maybe make up a little for the fact that you didn't just buy a gun from them. My experience using several, is that its usually about $20. They fax the seller their FFL credentials, submit whatever the BATF form is and then hand over your purchase once it arrives and the holding period is up. I've seen it as low as $10 and seen deals where its more expensive on the first one and then cheaper for the next ones.

[misteraven]

Sending and traveling with guns is a whole other deal, but its also often misrepresented by media. 

 

There is individual policy according to carrier, which the carriers themselves often don't know well and screw up. Basically, you can only send a firearm to yourself and mostly, you can only use Fedex. You do not tell them whats in the package, ever. You simply say its sporting equipment, put the value high enough that they treat it respectfully and ship it in a container that can be locked, and then package that in a box so it can't be identified. Also, make sure you have firearms specific insurance, which is a good idea always. Send it adult signature required and track it carefully. Insure someone you trust is on the receiving end if you aren't there to accept it yourself. Recommend biting the bullet and paying for at least 3 day or better service as well since sending by ground is a bit of a gamble and also a bit of a dick move since it's possible it routes through a state where it's not legal, which can lead to big trouble for them and you. Other carriers like UPS specifically say they do not transport firearms, but its their own rule and not a law. Goes without saying you do not ship a loaded gun and best practice is to not even ship it with ammo since ammo should go ground and with proper hazmat labeling.

 

Traveling on the other hand is much easier. First thing you do is go to the website of the airline and carefully read and understand their policy regarding firearms. Virtually all follow a federal guidelines under FAA rules, which is you must declare your weapon during check in. This is very simple, you literally go to the ticketing counter and tell them you are traveling with a legal firearm. The person will then go get a second employee (to witness), grab a short form that asks some basic identity info and requires your signature and then request a visual inspection. At that point you simply open your case, allow them to view (and certainly not touch). They'll ask you if its loaded (it should not be obviously). They will take a copy of the form you just filled out and put it in the case and ask you to lock it (it must be in a hard sided case of some sort that locks) and at that point you lock it up. The lock should NOT be a TSA lock that they can open, but a normal lock. Ideally you also want a tamper seal for it as well and I'd take the time to photograph it with your phone once or twice (close up so you see the seal and serial clearly and again far enough to see its at the airport just to be extra safe) and then they take it away and process it as normal baggage except that it'll have a special handling label so that the workers handle it extra careful and so baggage guys at the other end know not to put it on the conveyer. Usually at the other end you'll need to go up to a desk in the baggage area and ask for it and show them your claim ticket. Note that you should obviously be flying to and from a place where having it is legal. Ideally, you'll also be careful of your layover and also insure that takes place in a state where owning it is also legal (though thats a legal grey area, better safe than sorry). Anyhow, sounds like a big deal, but it really isn't. Just allow extra time because its not unusual for you to get a dumb ass that has never done it before and either tries to say you cant travel with a gun or isn't familiar with the procedure and has to call someone else to help out. I'll often even take the trouble to print out their own rules on it to save myself having to argue with any stubborn dumb ass employees that might happen to also be anti gun rights. Just stay patient and polite and its all easy. Again, suggest you have a specific insurance policy to cover your stuff (they're surprisingly cheap), but its very unlikely they're going to lose or mess with your gun since they'd be in a world of shit if your gun went missing or if you could demonstrate someone tampered with it.

 

 

 

[misteraven]

Disclaimer: the above is not legal advice LOL. Just my experience having traveled with firearms many times.

 

Always a good time to see their reaction (and some nearby passengers) when they open a big ass pelican case with several AR's, a few pistols and dozens of magazines and all kids of lasers and optics and shit all neatly arranged in custom laser cut foam. 

 

Oh yeah, you can travel with ammo in the same case. There's a hard limit, usually something like 100 rounds and it should not be loaded in a firearm. Most the time, you buy ammo online and ship it ahead to your destination so its waiting for you when you arrive.

[GnomeToys]

With a C&R rifle you can usually mail a gun yourself (to an FFL) when selling, or receive one directly (possibly only when you have a C&R?) when buying, but there has to be an FFL holder on at least one end.  I ran into this at one point and decided to use an FFL to ship anyway, but the gun was originally shipped to me directly without a transfer on my end.  The USPS regulations say they'll ship rifles like this, but mine wouldn't and apparently most of them won't because either the clerks don't know the regulations or there's some anti-gun crap going on.  When I tried to ship mine, they refused to ship when I told them what it was for the insurance papers, I told them their website said they did, they just said they don't here.  People behind me are looking at me like I just killed their poodle.  The funny part about that was that nobody working there complained about the (boxed) rifle I'd walked in with, which turns out to be the bigger issue.  Legally, I found out later, you can't have any kind of firearm in the post office, which makes the matter of their shipping them in the first place kind of odd.  Since nobody called a partyvan on me for being there, I'm guessing I wasn't the first one to make that mistake. 

 

Even weirder is how much ridiculous hazmat shit you can bring in which can be shipped without hassle AFAIK with the right label.  It seems to be entirely a gun thing with the local managers in the case of shipping.  I still don't know how the gun-in-shipping-box thing is actually handled, since the law on that is meant for carry / conceal carry, but isn't very clear.  I'll just go to fedex / gun store if I need to deal with this again. 

 

The gun shop told me the USPS employees never understand their own regulations, and they stopped using them because random  delivery trucks would tell them they couldn't ship,  despite them being federally licensed and the ATF themselves recommending USPS registered mail for shipping.  They told me I could go to fedex and ship myself or they'd do it there for basically a handling fee, so I went with that.  YMMV on this one.  

 

[+plus+]

I legit saw some doctor drop all these weird containers that said radiation on them. I was weirded out, although im sure its fine. I understand people being anti gun but I hate when people recoil even at the thought or sight of one. (no pun intended)

Learn how to handle them and youll be fine. 

[misteraven]

You don't need an FFL to ship to yourself. Technically you don't need one on a private sale if its local and private though it's not a bad idea to cover yourself by doing it this way unless its someone you know or you took the time to have a notarized bill of sale to officiate when the transfer took place. Even then, you can get tangled up if someone does something stupid with it after so most people will likely still go through a dealer.

 

As far as shipping it, best bet is to not declare what's in it. Insurance through the carrier is a joke anyways and I wouldn't trust them with cutting me a check if they fuck up as I've been screwed out of claims and seen plenty of others screwed out of legitimate claims. If you're that far along with shooting, you should have a firearms specific insurance policy. As mentioned further up, they're very reasonably priced and its far easier to deal with should something go wrong since they're actually in business for this purpose.

 

Again, also recommend CCW insurance as well if you carry. Again, its fairly cheap as it's very rarely utilized, but should you find yourself in that situation, it'll be a God send in regards to dealing with lawyers and legal expenses should it go that route. Also some firearms manufacturers (Salient Arms International for example) will even guarantee your weapon shout it be legally confiscated as evidence. They literally will send you the same weapon to carry until you get yours returned.

 

On the CCW tip, I highly recommend anyone of you (that can legally qualify) to get one, even if its not your intent to every day carry or carry at all for that matter. Besides helping support everyone's 2nd Amendment right by showing the government that citizens care enough to get licensed to carry, it also helps in a lot of other situations. For example, it removes the grey area in a lot of situations should you be on the way to or back from a range, hunt or shoot of any kind. More importantly, it's a sort of obvious indicator of your character (and lack of criminal record) if you get stopped by LEO. I wouldn't straight pull it out if you get stopped, but having it conveniently next to your license when you flip open your wallet, will likely help out a good deal since the cop knows that if you were a dirt back, you wouldn't qualify for one. If they ask about it, I'd be honest about whether you're carry or not (though legally its your right to not answer that and since you aren't legally under oath, you aren't even under obligation to be honest), and then go on to say that you had no intention to show it, but now that he knows you're legally licensed, it hopefully makes his job slightly less stressful since it's likely you aren't a dirt bag, since not anyone can get one.

[+plus+]

Thanks for all of the info. I have been ballsdeep on gundeals online etc just lurking.

 

The insurance sounds like it would be a good buy. I probably wouldn't carry very much unless I felt like I needed it. Road Rage Defence being the biggest factor.

Been looking at tiny pocket guns since It is so fucking hot here I cant get away with outer layers. 

Thoughts, suggestions? 

Im kinda old school so Im not used to the newer style of no safety, or safety built into trigger. Is that something I should be concerned about? Budy said it's not even a concern of his with his glock. Any thoghts? 

 

[+plus+]

On 7/6/2018 at 12:08 AM, misteraven said:

Beg to differ, by presenting my friend Erik Munday...

 

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/5gjdkx/skate-mercenary-erik-munday-221

 

 

Therers some Somali Pirate footage on LiveLeak watching now at work.

 

[+plus+]

talk me out of buying a MP shoield 2.0 for ~300 bucks... 

its not my first choice but fuck thats a good deal. 

 

[misteraven]

On 8/27/2018 at 3:10 PM, +plus+ said:

Thanks for all of the info. I have been ballsdeep on gundeals online etc just lurking.

 

The insurance sounds like it would be a good buy. I probably wouldn't carry very much unless I felt like I needed it. Road Rage Defence being the biggest factor.

Been looking at tiny pocket guns since It is so fucking hot here I cant get away with outer layers. 

Thoughts, suggestions? 

Im kinda old school so Im not used to the newer style of no safety, or safety built into trigger. Is that something I should be concerned about? Budy said it's not even a concern of his with his glock. Any thoghts? 

 

Before buying a gun, I suggest shooting it. In terms of your primary weapon or even EDC, its unique to each person and the right firearm will indeed go a long way to making you a much better shooter. For example, Glock's are often touted as the go to semi-auto pistol, but I can tell you for fact that the fairly extreme sweep of the handle is not for every one. Each person will naturally have a point of an instinctual point of aim, which will indeed be more accurate and instinctual with training. The sweep on the Glock might work against your natural point of aim compared to lets say a pistol from Sig Sauer, which is more of a right angle. Likewise, some people hate the lack of a mechanical safety on Glock's and others dislike the idea of carrying cocked and locked with a two step safety on a 1911. In any case, I'd try the list of popular pistols and get a feel for what you like and what you naturally shoot better with (ideally shoot them all side by side, which is often not an issue at an indoor range that also does sales). Once you decide, train with it and learn the benefits and drawbacks and when you truly have a feel for it and assuming you can afford it, then start modifying the parts you don't like. Most factory triggers suck and you might want a lighter pull for example. Also not unusual to upgrade to a more aggressive grip texture or maybe upgrade your sights to some Tritium stuff or a different color marker.

 

Think about carrying is you never really need a gun until you do. Murphy's law sort of shows how you'll likely carry every day for years only to find that one time you get lazy, you're pumping gas or at a grocery store when suddenly shit goes sideways on you.

 

In regards to safeties, there's no wrong or right answer. Most modern guns, when handled by a proficient user are safe and 100% so if you follow the 4 cardinal rules (below) which you should be able to recite backwards and upside down from memory before you even handle a gun. There's two competing ideologies on whether to carry your gun chambered or not, so if you're uncomfortable, you can simply not chamber. The trigger safety on Glock's sounds a little wild for anyone not familiar with a Glock, but I can say from personal experience that it's solid in practice and won't feel like your dancing on a razor edge carrying one. You literally have to depress the trigger to fire it. Likewise, the aforementioned two step safety on the 1911 might be more your thing, though everyone I know that carries one, carries cocked and locked, which to me sounds a little crazy even though I understand the mechanics and know it totally safe. Again, suggest you try a few popular ones out, but will also point out that as you learn and train with your weapon, you'll naturally build confidence so I'm not sure I'd base my decision on the safety a gun has versus the aforementioned comfort and natural point of aim / impact. You'll get comfortable with it regardless of how the safety works, but the ergonomics of it and your ability to shoot well naturally is something much harder to get past and will likely bother you more as you get better.

 

The Four Rules

1. All guns are always loaded, no matter what.

2. Never point the gun at anything you are not willing to destroy.

3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target (and you have made the decision to shoot).

4. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

[misteraven]

27 minutes ago, +plus+ said:

talk me out of buying a MP shoield 2.0 for ~300 bucks... 

its not my first choice but fuck thats a good deal. 

 

Can't speak for M&P's. They're certainly popular weapons, but I don't own one and don't recall ever shooting one. Call around to local gun shops and ranges and see if you can test shoot one or rent. If nothing else, go to a gun shop and hold one. As them if they mind you dry firing it a couple times. As him to explain it to you, that you're new and learning. They'll be very cool about it and probably talk your ear off. Let them know you want to do some more research and shoot one your buddy has and buy a key chain or box of ammo so you aren't just taking their time up not buying it.

[6Pennies]

6 hours ago, misteraven said:

Before buying a gun, I suggest shooting it.

This. 

 

Regardless of price or deal, make sure it fits your hand, you like how it handles, how the action works, recoil.  Also be conscious of how you will carry it, if at all.  Besides its fit in your hand, understand how it will carry (weight and shape) and where will you carry (OWB/IWB, appendix, 4 0'clock).  Be sure to try to bend down with it in your holster, even try to sit in your car with it.  Carrying a gun is not really comfortable but you'll get used to it.  I'm at the point I feel "naked" when I don't carry.  It is obviously missing and gives me a bit of anxiety.

[Kalashnikov]

On 8/27/2018 at 1:03 PM, misteraven said:

 (though legally its your right to not answer that and since you aren't legally under oath, you aren't even under obligation to be honest), and then go on to say that you had no intention to show it, but now that he knows you're legally licensed, it hopefully makes his job slightly less stressful since it's likely you aren't a dirt bag, since not anyone can get one.

Bruh you can't just go out handing out definitives like this. This completely depends on where you live. My state does not have duty to inform, I'm guessing yours doesn't either. But there are a lot of states that do have duty to inform. If you live in one of those states, you get stopped, cop runs your license, and finds out you're carrying and didn't inform, you can get in some shit and possibly lose your CCL.

 

Realistically the cop shouldn't find out if they don't search you, but if they do have PC to search and end up finding the gun when you didn't inform, that's not a good look.

[Kalashnikov]

On 8/29/2018 at 12:37 PM, +plus+ said:

talk me out of buying a MP shoield 2.0 for ~300 bucks... 

its not my first choice but fuck thats a good deal. 

 

I have a 1st gen Shield that I bought way before S&W really cut the price on them, I paid like $429 for mine I think. I have it in 9mm. We can get into caliber pissing wars here but honestly, I feel .40 is pretty useless. Like twice the recoil with just as much power as (modern) 9mm, and more expensive, also in the same gun it'll hold a round or two less than 9mm. I've sold most of my .40s, I only have one left. I'm not a fan of .45 either, so I can't comment on the Shield in .45.

 

With that said, mine needed a little breaking in. There were a few times when the gun was brand new, after oiling and everything, that the slide didn't completely go into battery. It was just a centimeter from being in battery, but if you tilted the gun it would go into battery (just to give an idea how it barely was out). After about 100 rounds, that went away, and I haven't had a problem with it since (at about 1500 rounds).

 

It's not a bad little gun. Easy enough to conceal, affordable, reliable at least after break in. It does kick a little bit for a 9mm but it's not bad, that's to be expected with the size of the gun though. I'd go for it.

 

 

[One Man Banned]

@+plus+I first agree with what 6pennies said on this.  After that, I can say I have an M&P 9mm (not the 2.0) and it's been great, reliable, fun to shoot.  Are you considering it for regular carry or to add another to the collection?

[misteraven]

On 9/30/2018 at 9:16 AM, Kalashnikov said:

Bruh you can't just go out handing out definitives like this. This completely depends on where you live. My state does not have duty to inform, I'm guessing yours doesn't either. But there are a lot of states that do have duty to inform. If you live in one of those states, you get stopped, cop runs your license, and finds out you're carrying and didn't inform, you can get in some shit and possibly lose your CCL.

 

Realistically the cop shouldn't find out if they don't search you, but if they do have PC to search and end up finding the gun when you didn't inform, that's not a good look.

Yeah, you’re right. Been so long since I’ve been in a place like that, that I forgot they exist. And a good time to remind everyone that legal advice from an Internet forum isn’t legal advice... Just a starting point that may or may not be correct so you can dig into it further yourself. Forums are for entertainment. 

[misteraven]

On 9/30/2018 at 9:23 AM, Kalashnikov said:

I have a 1st gen Shield that I bought way before S&W really cut the price on them, I paid like $429 for mine I think. I have it in 9mm. We can get into caliber pissing wars here but honestly, I feel .40 is pretty useless. Like twice the recoil with just as much power as (modern) 9mm, and more expensive, also in the same gun it'll hold a round or two less than 9mm. I've sold most of my .40s, I only have one left. I'm not a fan of .45 either, so I can't comment on the Shield in .45.

 

With that said, mine needed a little breaking in. There were a few times when the gun was brand new, after oiling and everything, that the slide didn't completely go into battery. It was just a centimeter from being in battery, but if you tilted the gun it would go into battery (just to give an idea how it barely was out). After about 100 rounds, that went away, and I haven't had a problem with it since (at about 1500 rounds).

 

It's not a bad little gun. Easy enough to conceal, affordable, reliable at least after break in. It does kick a little bit for a 9mm but it's not bad, that's to be expected with the size of the gun though. I'd go for it.

 

 

.40 was a response to the shooting in SW Miami during the 80s when a bunch of cops and a few FBI guys got killed by some dudes that far outgunned them. The LEO shot them multiple times with duty weapons that were mostly 9mm and due to body armor and Adrenalin survived long enough to continue and kill a bunch of responders. The investigation in the aftermath of all that concluded that cops needed a better duty round, which ended up being the .40. Believe it was a compromise because the conclusion was that 10mm had the best ballistics / qualities for the situation. 

[LUGR]

On 6/1/2019 at 8:54 AM, misteraven said:

.40 was a response to the shooting in SW Miami during the 80s when a bunch of cops and a few FBI guys got killed by some dudes that far outgunned them. The LEO shot them multiple times with duty weapons that were mostly 9mm and due to body armor and Adrenalin survived long enough to continue and kill a bunch of responders. The investigation in the aftermath of all that concluded that cops needed a better duty round, which ended up being the .40. Believe it was a compromise because the conclusion was that 10mm had the best ballistics / qualities for the situation. 

 

[Guest]

[misteraven]

Hey @6Penniesyou do any shooting lately? Regrettably, I’ve been burning it at both ends and haven’t done much of anything besides work. Hoping to change that situation soon enough. 

[6Pennies]

On 8/1/2019 at 6:01 AM, misteraven said:

Hey @6Penniesyou do any shooting lately? Regrettably, I’ve been burning it at both ends and haven’t done much of anything besides work. Hoping to change that situation soon enough. 

Personally,  maybe a month ago, after work with my CCW (G19). Other than that I have taken my daughters to keep their interest up, and to reinforce their comfort and safety.  But nothing having to do with tactics, just some trigger practice.  Its too hot to shoot outside and BLM usually closes the desert shooting areas due to fire danger.

[misteraven]

I feel you... With all the work (professional and home), only trigger time has been a couple afternoons shooting ground squirrels to keep them at bay from digging more holes all over. Getting out of control and can’t even put a dent in the population, but sure is fun. 

[6Pennies]

9 hours ago, misteraven said:

I feel you... With all the work (professional and home), only trigger time has been a couple afternoons shooting ground squirrels to keep them at bay from digging more holes all over. Getting out of control and can’t even put a dent in the population, but sure is fun. 

.22lr for them?

 

[Guest]

. 22 rat shot, no? 

[diggity]

@misteraven

do you still have that raven .25 or have you bought another one for sentimental reasons?