gun thread

[One Man Banned]

Wow, and ouch. Joking? Otherwise I have to say you're wrong. Maybe month or so ago I shot 2 .38 specials, snub nose, don't recall barrel length but doesn't really matter. In double action it beat my trigger finger up and was difficult to fire, and my hand strength is pretty good from all the painting and masturbating I've done over the years! Single action, no problem at all. The only other revolver I fired was .357 (shooting .38 rounds) and it was smooth as hell. Anyhow, point being, not all revolvers are light in the trigger. The 2nd time I got to fire all sorts of pistols from someone's collection which convinced me to leave the revolver idea for now and focus on getting a .45.

[CatNYC]

do you guys know any blog/site about guns and weapon? send me link please. private message is possible

[One Man Banned]

It's called google.com, you can find a shit ton of them through there.

[Fist 666]

Is this guy serious?

[misteraven]

Super surprised to see this thread and even more to see it at 125 pages! Damn, had no idea there was this must interest amongst the 12ozProphet community when it comes to firearms.

 

So in the spirit of conversation, here's some trigger time shots from the last Costa Ludus class I took...

 

 

[misteraven]

More...

 

Last series of shots was a Seekins Precision build I ran at a private Reduced Visibility Elements Theory class I got invited to. This series is a Salient Arms International blaster I ran at a carbine class.

 

 

 

[Fist 666]

@misteraven Did they teach you to hold the barrel so far out? If so, what is the reasoning?

 

I feel like position training like that, c-grip, or whatever its called, is great when you're static. But there is a reason pistol grips and red dots are popular--if you're trying to move, seek c&c, etc techniques like that long grip are not effective. Grab the pistol grip, put the red dot on, go. Stance matters, but when shit hits the fan, if it isn't muscle memory and you haven't trained repetitively to move in that position it will go to the wind.

 

Not trying to talk shit or anything, I just see a lot of my paintball and milsim friends practicing stances and body positions like that which I'm not convinced have real world application.

 

Beautiful rifle, btw.

[misteraven]

@misteraven Did they teach you to hold the barrel so far out? If so, what is the reasoning?

 

I feel like position training like that, c-grip, or whatever its called, is great when you're static. But there is a reason pistol grips and red dots are popular--if you're trying to move, seek c&c, etc techniques like that long grip are not effective. Grab the pistol grip, put the red dot on, go. Stance matters, but when shit hits the fan, if it isn't muscle memory and you haven't trained repetitively to move in that position it will go to the wind.

 

Not trying to talk shit or anything, I just see a lot of my paintball and milsim friends practicing stances and body positions like that which I'm not convinced have real world application.

 

Beautiful rifle, btw.

 

@Fist 666

 

There's a lot of opinion regarding how best to set your forward grip. This is considered an aggressive forward grip and is definitely something Chris Costa in known for. Purpose is that as you engage targets and move between them, you can drive your muzzle faster and minimize that sway / over-sway you get as you're driving the barrel. Likewise, reacquiring the target after a shot is easier when you consider the muzzle will follow the path of least resistance after discharging. Most firearms will naturally climb and then offset away from your grip hand, so the more stable a shooting platform you can create, the quicker you can get your muzzle back on target. As such, the closer you can grip to where the explosion is occurring, the more leverage you have in controlling the recoil and keeping the muzzle where you want it. Takes a bit more strength holding your arm out, but also naturally minimizes that arm from chicken winging out.

 

Yeah, my favorite shooting is tactical, so most often we're running shoot and move drills. Costa Ludus definitely trains for real life type situations, so I feel what you're saying. At the end of the day its about how accurately and consistently you can place rounds on target, so there's no real wrong or right way. Its what works best for you. I have long arms, so this hold is comfortable for me, but I've seen how much quicker I can drive my gun between targets, as well as how much more stable of a shooting platform I create when I'm control the far end of my gun. My carbines all shoot super flat, but this definitely helps in reacquiring and driving towards target, as well as holding steady for shots out past 100m.

 

As far as stance, there's about as much debate there. Obviously at minimum you need to be balanced and 223/556 really has little recoil, but I train to shoot and move so I want a nice aggressive stance. Though I don't usually wear armor, I try and keep my shoulders square to the target to build that habit and also because, again its the most stable platform for me. Keep the carbine tucked in nice and tight with plenty of mass behind it and then roll my shoulders slightly forward because it forces my trigger arm inwards minimizing my profile as far as is manageable for me. Wide stance, slightly forward and I can shoot and move as best as I'm able at my age.

[misteraven]

Oh and thanks for the compliment on the gun. It's definitely nice. Paid a grip and waited ages as SAI only does custom builds. Not crazy about the single stage flat trigger, though the thing breaks like glass; super crisp. The hand guard is really slick looking and does also help keep it shooting extra flat, but no chance at suppressing it. They've since corrected that with an updated release called the GRY that I plan to pick up, so will likely sell this one despite only having about 1000 rounds through it. Really love my Seekins build though. Runs so smooth and its a tack driver. Has a 16" barrel so figure that also helps give it an edge as well.

[misteraven]

Here's a flick of the Seekins build I was talking about. Have a better shot somewhere else, but it's got an SAI titanium nitride coated BCG in it.

 

[misteraven]

Found a better shot of them side by side...

 

[misteraven]

And now for some handgun... Custom special release Salient Arms International x Costa Ludus Glock 17 Gen3 with RMR and match grade, threaded barrel. Actually bought this one off Chris.

 

[misteraven]

@Fist 666 where you at?

[Fist 666]

I'm in Colorado.

I had some kinda serious suicidal ideations a few years back and decided I didn't need any guns in my house so I sold what I had, enough vets become that statistic...

 

Still love them and like to shoot other people's stuff when the opportunity arises.

 

I'm not sure I buy the sway control argument of hand placement. Your arm will fatigue much faster in that position, if you rock a pistol grip right in front of the mag well you can let your shoulder essentially hang and let your skeleton do the work for your muscles. Oversway is something you train to minimize. If an engagement lasted long enough, your arm would be less able to control the oversway motion. But then fog and friction and adrenaline changes everything, so I guess it boils down to confidence in your own training whenever shit does hit the fan.

[Fist 666]

Also, one facet of why your guns are sexy is the lack of stupid shit on the rails. A+ for that.

[misteraven]

Ha! Actually meant 'where you at' in terms of why you weren't in the thread.

 

Firstly, thank you for your service. hadn't known you were a vet. And sorry to hear about the suicidal thoughts, I know how often that hits people, especially our veterans. What branch, if you don't mind my asking?

 

I'm not sure in a real situation there would be much practical difference in terms of fatigue. Would assume your adrenalin in pumping pretty hard and there's probably a lot more pressing shit to be concerned with. Can't imagine in most instances a fire fight continuing long enough for that happen. If there is a need for that much sustained fire, I'd like to think you could get behind some cover.

 

That said, I've tried lots of ways. The classes I take are basically all military or LEO. I've shot along side Delta, Recon Marines, as well as some CIA guys and have tried different techniques and have heard just about every pro / con argument around those techniques. Indeed a lot of military lean towards a magwell grip, but I get more sway with that and can't drive my gun and follow up as well with accurate fire. I'm still working to improve (between NYC and CA I can't get out nearly as often as I'd like), but have seen when running drills, my most accurate fire and quickest times result from that extended hold, especially when driving between multiple targets that aren't all bunched up. To your point, if all's you're doing is standing there putting rounds on a single target, especially at distance, you will definitely fatigue. In that second to last shot just above the backpack flick, we were on a mountain top drilling steel targets at 100 meters... believe there were 10 targets about 15 meters apart and drill was that you had to hear the hit before moving on. You had to fire standing and best time after hitting all 10 won (reloads and rest we're allowed, but obviously wrecked your time). Bitch of it was that it was also shooting down into a valley about 75 meters lower. I think in that exact shot we we're shooting the next row at 250m which was across the valley and mid way up the next peak at about level to where we were. Anyhow, it was tough and definitely required more arm / shoulder strength than I had, but then again it was also end of an 8 hour day at about 8000 ft of altitude. Though you can't see it, I'm using a 2 point sling pulled tight that also gives a bit of relief for that hold.

 

Anyhow, suggest giving it a try especially if you have a shot timer. Easy enough to prove / disprove and settle on what works best for you. And yeah, I typically run my guns pretty slick, but obviously depends on context. For that night class, we had to run white light and IR. Pretty nuts being in the dark with a dozen IR lasers sweeping down range.

[Fist 666]

Haha. I figured it was a "what state do you live in, and thus what are you allowed to play with" where-you-at.

 

I was a cav scout in the Army. 6 years. Enough fun for a lifetime... the real pro is the GI Bill, though. Getting paid to go to college is pretty sweet.

 

I'll buy that. Personal comfort can support personal confidence, and thus typically better shooting.

 

Sounds like good training.

Guys that go to a range, zero, put a couple boxes in paper and go home and then talk shit about how they're gonna be in the zombie apocalypse or when Obama comes to molon labe their ass annoy the shit out of me.

[misteraven]

Guys that go to a range, zero, put a couple boxes in paper and go home and then talk shit about how they're gonna be in the zombie apocalypse or when Obama comes to molon labe their ass annoy the shit out of me.

 

LOL

 

Having been mostly in NYC these last years, I'm used to not even bringing it up. Got excited when I saw this thread though. Shooting is like a zen thing for me. Usually have to worry about 10 million things, so its nice to have something that forces me to tune it all out and focus on something else for a bit.

[MaksCorenWylt]

Gun collectors are strangely enough, some of the most paranoid people I know. I like that about them. Makes me feel like they're paying attention.

[misteraven]

Gun collectors are strangely enough, some of the most paranoid people I know. I like that about them. Makes me feel like they're paying attention.

 

@MaksCorenWylt Probably paranoid for good reason...

 

[MaksCorenWylt]

Isn't everyone? Probably. I don't own firearms. Seen a lot of them. Just never thought, until recently, that they were necessary.

[misteraven]

Awfully quiet around here... Any shooters still around? Anyone zeroing in for hunting season right about now?

[One Man Banned]

I'd shoot a person over an animal. Of course it is always challenging when an animal is a tasty fucker as well, lol. I have respect though for people who hunt with some degree of sport or challenge and make use of as much of the animal as possible afterward. Hit the range the other day for some fun.

[misteraven]

Hunting is a personal choice. My thoughts are i really enjoy meat and feel a bit of a responsibility to hunt. Perhaps after doing so, I won't enjoy it as much, or at all. But the commercial meat industry is about as bad it gets and even if it weren't, my thoughts are it's far more humane to take down an animal that had a free life to that point than to keep animals captive their entire lives for the purposes of eventually slaughtering and eating them. Too much disconnect in the process when a person just goes to a supermarket and buys meat.

[One Man Banned]

Agreed, and good point on the meat industry. First few times i had venison I thought I might give up beef for that. You have hunted, or plan to do so? For what game? You hunting with some of the weapons you've posted or a more traditional rifle?

[misteraven]

Agreed, and good point on the meat industry. First few times i had venison I thought I might give up beef for that. You have hunted, or plan to do so? For what game? You hunting with some of the weapons you've posted or a more traditional rifle?

 

Nope, never hunted. Never really lived in a place that allowed for much of that. Figured I'd go out with someone that knows what they're doing and just give it my best. Unsure what I'll hunt for, but have heard a lot of good things regarding Elk, so that's on my wish list. As far as tools, I'll likely follow the suggestion of whoever I go with. Don't think .223/5.56 is a good caliber for hunting game that large, so doubt I'd use any of the weapons I've posted. I do own a long gun chambered in .308, but suspect even that isn't big enough. This said, it's been on my todo list for a long time to get into precision shooting, so hoping to start once the dust settles. Probably not very sporting to take game at massive distance, but have my eyes on the Accuracy International AXMC chambered in 338 Lapua Magnum. Expensive as round to shoot, even with reloading, but they also have a conversion kit to 308 so thinking that's the best of both worlds. Haven't done much regarding precision shooting though, so still have a bit to learn which is cool since that weapon definitely costs a pretty penny as well.

[Fist 666]

I know plenty of people who hunt elk with .308.

 

Elk for me is the pinnacle of meat. I like venison on occasion, but elk is king any time.

Ostrich is pretty fucking awesome, too, but not a lot of ostrich hunting stateside...

[misteraven]

Looking forward to trying it!

[One Man Banned]

There's a dude at my range that likes to come by with an elephant gun when no one is around, pretty impressive and sounds like a cannon. I know he reloads but that shit has got to be expensive.

 

I've only had Elk as a sausage and maybe a small rib or something, I heard it's amazing as a chop.

[misteraven]

Actually looking forward to reloading. Have a great Hornady setup that I've barely gotten to use since I've been either working or traveling so much. Was interested in seeing how precise I might be able to get with hand loads and how it might compare to match grade ammo once you start pulling out concentricity tools and OAL gauges. Also way cheaper, especially since I'm probably sitting on about 10,000 once used .223 brass. Figuring it'll also be the only way I can really shoot 338 LM rounds once I pick up that AI.