thinksmall Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 i'm so far from caring about american politics right now i couldn't really muster an argument for anyone. that said, obama on a gut level vibe seems like the better choice. i tend to feel the same as enigmatic does about edwards...i dunno, he seems like a good dude, but he comes across so phoney and his answers can sound so canned...i don't think he has the spine for the white house, but what do i know. on another note, the most interesting shit i find about the coverage is cnn reporter john kings mouth. anybody ever check out his mouth when he's talking? seriously...have a peep, he's got somethin' odd goin' on there.. I recall years back when people said Bush was the 'best of the flock' and he's got the 'gut level' vibe. Which he was. A lot of the changes (this fucking word..) he promised were left-wing as hell, then 9.11 happened. If Kerry was elected and 9.11 happened, holy mother of god he'd pull of the same shit Bush did. It could have be an in the moment thing, or some greater elite conspiracy, but it remains that the same policies would have been implemented. My point is that 'gut level' vibe means absolutely nothing. It should mean absolutely nothing who becomes president anyhoo. If the president wants to go against the constitution, congress should not support the president. You can impeach a president who comes up with absolute bullshit. The '08 election is a little different though, because the congress is weak at doing things. And there are many institutions like the IRS and Federal Reserve that may sadly need a federal power to remove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 I recall years back when people said Bush was the 'best of the flock' and he's got the 'gut level' vibe. Which he was. A lot of the changes (this fucking word..) he promised were left-wing as hell, then 9.11 happened. If Kerry was elected and 9.11 happened, holy mother of god he'd pull of the same shit Bush did. It could have be an in the moment thing, or some greater elite conspiracy, but it remains that the same policies would have been implemented. My point is that 'gut level' vibe means absolutely nothing. It should mean absolutely nothing who becomes president anyhoo. If the president wants to go against the constitution, congress should not support the president. You can impeach a president who comes up with absolute bullshit. The '08 election is a little different though, because the congress is weak at doing things. And there are many institutions like the IRS and Federal Reserve that may sadly need a federal power to remove. Gore was the best of the flock. Of course gut level vibe means nothing, you are taking interveiws for the top job in the country. Who is the most qualified? who is best for the job? This is one of the biggest failings of the US democracy, its a vote for ´most popular´ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinksmall Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Ya but America has Ron Paul this time of day. Or Kucinich (Without Paul, I dunno If Kucinich's substance would be the same. I dont chill with them afterall). Gore was the best of the flock? C'mon.. hes got one of the biggest tributes in the Right-Wing hall of fame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Pubes Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 I recall years back when people said Bush was the 'best of the flock' and he's got the 'gut level' vibe. Which he was. A lot of the changes (this fucking word..) he promised were left-wing as hell, then 9.11 happened. If Kerry was elected and 9.11 happened, holy mother of god he'd pull of the same shit Bush did. It could have be an in the moment thing, or some greater elite conspiracy, but it remains that the same policies would have been implemented. My point is that 'gut level' vibe means absolutely nothing. It should mean absolutely nothing who becomes president anyhoo. If the president wants to go against the constitution, congress should not support the president. You can impeach a president who comes up with absolute bullshit. The '08 election is a little different though, because the congress is weak at doing things. And there are many institutions like the IRS and Federal Reserve that may sadly need a federal power to remove. is that how you felt? i know i didn't. i recall that he screamed scumbag. maybe you weren't quite old enough at the time or whatever. no diss, just sayin'. he had a record, he had relatives who had a record, he also had dick fucking cheney at his side. for the record, i wasn't in favour of the gore/lieberdouche possibility either. or buchanan(he ran didn't he?). i was on naders nads. as for gut level vibes, i've been around long enough to have a pretty honed bullshit detector. i'm sorry you have little faith in your own. would i base my vote on gut alone? no, of course not, it doesn't replace substance on issues. in any case, i'm not sure what kerry and 9/11 has to do with what i said, unless you're making a blanket statement that obama is john kerry is george bush is the NWO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVERWURST* Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 ^Finally a rational post. Bush was not seen by any means as a moderate Republican with Liberal views. The Rove formula involved among many other things, relating Bush to the base sentiments of far right religion and distrust/hatred of the government (the core message of the republican party these days). On to the issue of our instincts driving our choices: I trust my gut (instincts) because that's what all of you are doing on either side of the issue, but I feed it too. Many of you seem resolved to the idea that Obama has no stances or substance yet his website and other news sites are filled with info if you care to research it. That said "plans" aren't everything, and in every election all the candidates have plans and positions and all that, but ultimately who you are also matters in politics and is key to getting plans implemented. Clinton and Bush both did well while they had a congress with a majority of the same party. After the congress changed hands, their fortunes went south. Some of it was basic partisan bullshit, but it was reinforced by a loss of credibility with the people. Clinton had Monica and some questionable business relationships. Bush has Iraq and again questionable, less secretive relationships with businesses (Haliburton for one). I not only want a candidate that shares my stances but also one that will be credible, savvy, and a good negotiator (as Clinton had been in the beginning). I want a candidate with character and credibility..this guy has it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WORDISM45 Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 yeah obama seems alright to me i'm definitely rooting for him over that completely full of shit bitch Hillary. the Republicans must be cheering that their 2 main opponents in the next election are a woman and a black dude, thats about 50 percent of dumbshits who wont vote democrat no matter what Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVERWURST* Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 I would rather we be looking at specific issues than everyone making vague judgments. I have some reservations about his health plans. From what I can tell he wants to further regulate health insurance in favor of offering everyone a chance, but it appears he still wants to rely on a private system... http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/ I think both sides should have something smart to say...so say it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.crooked Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 At least we can all look forward to the race between mccain, romney and huckabee cus we know they are fucked. either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 so, obama and schillary tied? even though the vote was higher for schillary, they have the same amount of delegates, which means they tied. p.s.: votes were stolen..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVERWURST* Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 Diebold strikes again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecoldmidwest Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Barack Obama's only virtue is that he wasn't present in the Senate for the Iraq War vote. But when it comes down to it, he'll most certainly go along with the rank-and-file on issues of war and intervention. -google news search, sums him up pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVERWURST* Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 He has voted against the war repeatedly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinksmall Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 He's threatened Iran, and encourages a large military. You vote Obama, the war will happen. Or Hillary for that matter. Obama is just another suit. Fuckin' suits. Are you guys just ignoring his activity in the Council on Foreign Relations or what. Nothing short of Right-Wing Progressivism ever came from that institution. They preach it. John Kerry has membership with the CFR, so yes its a pretty strong statement. You guys ever watched Star Wars? Seriously, you doofs' need a reality check. Yes, a reality check. No creativity up in this bitch. Palpatine and Sideous. Dude manipulates the Republic to gain control of the clones. Clones metaphors power. The Republic metaphors The American Republic. Palpatine and Sideous represent the two face mother fuckers of the CFR, NPR, UN, CEIP, ESU, and every other intertwined institutions. Remember that in Star Wars, the only secrets hidden from the general public are the motives. Sideous succeeds cause he's got 2 faces. He play two roles. I find hope that in Star Wars, balance is returned. It'd be cool if it didnt need to be though. - Supreme-Captain-Lieutenant-Commander of the Twisting Nether, ThinkSmall. LIGHTNING BOLT! LIGHTNING BOLT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigmatic Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 "banning any weapon is unconstitutional" ANY weapon? I dont think so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinksmall Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 A moral issue is a moral issue. Banning all weapons is unconstitutional, it's done to enforce a lack of morals in people - but it is unconstitutional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVERWURST* Posted January 12, 2008 Author Share Posted January 12, 2008 I could really use a nuclear weapon next to my HD TV as a conversation piece and a form of protection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohefdubs Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 he seeems nice enough and authentic but he aint gonna win!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban art 415 Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 fuck obama 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.crooked Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 A moral issue is a moral issue. Banning all weapons is unconstitutional, it's done to enforce a lack of morals in people - but it is unconstitutional. you all act as though the constitution is infallible. it was written by man just like anything else. your all acting like christians talking about the bible to someone who doesn't take it as the literal word of god. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVERWURST* Posted January 12, 2008 Author Share Posted January 12, 2008 fuck obama GTFO rookie... Get a new name too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinksmall Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 you all act as though the constitution is infallible. it was written by man just like anything else. your all acting like christians talking about the bible to someone who doesn't take it as the literal word of god. Was liberty created by man? Its been rollin' way before the constitution was even thought about. With respect to the need of organization and security, the constitution is the policy of no policy.. the policy of free humans, and the policy of how to secure that in a world of organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinksmall Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 I agree though, that its not the literally word of nature, but show me something better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.crooked Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Yeah, liberty is a thing made by men. what is better than it is pragmatic choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinksmall Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I believe that its nature that has led us to liberty though. For example, in the world of natural, inhuman animals: When predator meets prey, nature allows prey to fight back, run, or hide. Theres a balance; each creature doesn't get an overwhelming control of how things play out. Its an ecosystem. Before there was governance and organization, there was complete unthoughtful freedom... right? I think I understand what you mean by pragmatic choice, but the literally implication has flaws greater than complete choice. A lot of times pragmatic choice means correctness. An opposer to certain philosophy can justify their actions as pragmatic. Their actions may have an opposer's dismay. Which is natural. I'm refraining myself from using words like evil, so bear with me...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.crooked Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 And can we ever say before their was governance or organization? As social beings we can presume to think we had some social structures that we have lived in far beyond when we gave words and abstract concepts to it. I believe we have choice. We can always choose to do what is considered outside our freedoms or liberties. We may be given this or that freedom but this or that choice of ours can not be taken away. By anything. Do we have the freedom to kill someone for no reason? The idea of freedom is specific to questioning whether or not we have that option in this or that situation. But we can always choose otherwise. I think freedom is just some bullshit political term. Choice holds much more regard with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.crooked Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 i think morality can also be explained in terms of emergent properties of an evolving system. dan dennet has some stuff on it. he has a new book called "freedom evolved." i haven't read it yet but i saw a speech on the main topics of the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinksmall Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Watch Blade Runner 100 more times again. Explore the arguments about Human vs. Human Machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.crooked Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 are you telling me this? we are moving towards a conversation better suited for my philosophy thread. not the obama support thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVERWURST* Posted January 14, 2008 Author Share Posted January 14, 2008 we are moving towards a conversation better suited for my philosophy thread. not the obama support thread. ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVERWURST* Posted January 14, 2008 Author Share Posted January 14, 2008 Hillary on MLK? Damage control? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22636939/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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