mamerro was right: news from venezuela

[thecoldmidwest]

I also know that Pat Robertson wants Chavez dead, and that man's crazy....

[MayorMeanBeans]

i wasnt saying that hollywood was a huge fan of chavez, iwas saying that your characterization of chavez as wholly good, and the usa as wholly evil, is a very hollywood-ish (read simple) understanding of their feud. and far more complicated than a cia conspiracy of sorts (though people on here will for sure convince you otherwise). but hey, im not as interesting to believe as the others, so just think of me as a bush hack.

 

we can both agree that pat robertson is psycho.

[Juan Fuentes]

by saying Chavez is not all good could mean two things. good as in perfect and good as in good intentions with his power. i know Chavez is doing everything to help bring a new thing to the region. it's not greed. he could be more secured and more wealthy if he would stick to Washington's agenda.

the man certainly is on the other side. that he has defects, yes, and the opposition media concentrate on that to drive people away from anything related to him, plus the lying and inciting people like always.

 

after all, today Venezuela is at peace and not civil war with people shouting "fraud" in the streets.

[MayorMeanBeans]

juan i wasn't talking about personal defects.

 

i am arguing that chavez has hidden agendas, just like any other politician in the history of the world. to deny this is to simplify the context beyond recognition.

 

for example- his beef with america obscures domestic problems. i have said this again and again. every time the situation in venezuela gets a little worse, its no longer his fault, its the cia's fault. a conspiracy.

 

-- thats also why he talks shit about the american dollar, the spanish king, the colombian president, etc. it deflects domestic criticism.

 

i think i could formulate an argument that chavez is very greedy for power (maybe even financial resources), if anything out of paranoia that someone might take his power-

 

- thats why he advocated ending the autonomy of the central bank (a completely retarded thing to do, all you have to do is look at zimbabwe to see why this is down syndrome at its finest).

 

- thats why he wanted unlimited reelection- he is greedy for power. if he was only interested in a revolution, then he would stay on in an unofficial capacity, and further his policies that way. but no- he wants THE POWER.

 

- thats why he advocated reorganizing popular councils, so that they were directly answerable to him (not the populace), in the interest of CENTRALIZING POWER.

 

Greedy in the American, material sense? naaaaaaaaah. Greedy in the Mussolinist sense??? Mayhap.

 

ps- the fraud in the streets comment. are you implying that the US is in a civil war because hippies protest? im living in canada right now, on one of the main streets downtown in one of the major cities, and this street gets shut down almost twice a month because of this or that protest. and believe me, this country is not in a state of civil war. and america is not in a state of civil war either.

 

keep dreaming, its about as likely as venezuela being in the midst of a revolution that they themselves rejected. :lol:

[Juan Fuentes]

the fraud thing i was talking about is what the opposition was going to be shouting if the results would have been the opposite what they were. together with the chaos they had planned. they werent going to react how the bolivarian citizens responded, as you can see now after the results.

 

there where saying already in the radios. about posible fraud, that, because chavez is SOOO powerful he is able to get his people to change the results.

 

i dont know where you got that i was implying that hippies are causing a civil war in the US.

[MayorMeanBeans]

sorry fuentes its been a good run and all talking about venezuela, but when you resort to coulda woulda shoulda regarding what the opposition 'would have done' (planned chaos etc.) im done with you. you've been wrong countless amounts of times in this thread (first with the impression that there were improvements in venezuela even though their own census data denies that, then in your calculation of who was going to win (failing to see that the polticized bolivarians you espouse didn't care enough to vote), and then regarding what the opposition was going to do etc.) that i think its fair to say that you, not i, have a narrow mind, and you are quite unwilling to see that you have an extremely narrow sense of the goings ons in the world. in defense of you, i understand that i'm not smart enough to connect the cia/nwo dots, but its hard to when they don't correspond with the reality i perceive.

 

until the next topic in which i'm sure we'll be on opposite sides once again,

 

menino.

[Juan Fuentes]

they were going to shout fraud.

they are a bunch of cry babies.

lets see when the people pass the reform again, if they do, and they lose, lets see if they accept it.

 

they had acted violently before the voting and they were going to continue after the voting if they were going to lose. there is videos of them saying that the opposition should not accept the results and should be on the streets until the country was changed the way they wanted.

 

yesterday was signed the beggining of a bank for south america, to take all the money out of the new world order banks and put it there, to use it.

south america is rich in resources. and they are coming together, so there is nothing the new world order media can do about it.

[MayorMeanBeans]

no political leader said not to accept the results if they don't agree with them. maybe some asshole burning a bus, but i dont think that they are representative of the opposition (the same way that anarchists at a peace rally are not representative of the group).

 

south america is not coming together. chile and argentina are westward leaning. colombia and venezuela don't talk. brazil is swamped by domestic scandals/corruption and has enough going on to worry about the others. same with peru (even though peru just signed a free trade agreement with the USA) everyone else aren't really doing much of anything that i can think of recent memory, even though they may be receptive to a bolivarian revolution, i have found very little literature of a reputable nature (with non-anonymous authors, sources on record of significance, etc, or of an academic nature).

 

regarding the south american development bank, wonderful. now loans are repaid to venezuela rather than washington. as you will note in the fine print though, they will be primarily Paris club funding (look that up if you don't know what it means), which means that the rates will stay at market rates). yet another cheap political trick of venezuela that makes no difference to the average poor person.

 

nwo media? what do they care? cnn is going to assassinate chavez cuz he wants people to take loans from his bank, and not the wb/imf?

 

your rhetoric never survives anyy scrutiny.

[Juan Fuentes]

well that's your side, in my side we see the good things of the world's process.

[MayorMeanBeans]

only accepting information that is conducive to one's ideology is always fun.