OMARNYCAKASW1 Posted December 14, 2001 Share Posted December 14, 2001 just an FYI,,,from http://www.rense.com makes a good read, but fuck it thats what america is about tagging and doubting what GWBush tellls ya HAHA, IM WATCHIN CSPAN AND sect of DEFNESE, DOnnie Rumfeld just said 'WHERE IS OMAR?" twice! *********** WASHINGTON/TORA BORA, Afghanistan (Reuters) - The United States on Thursday released a video it said showed Osama bin Laden holding a "smoking gun" as mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks, while his al Qaeda group hunkered down in the Afghan mountains under a deluge of U.S. bombs and vowed to fight on. The videotape shows bin Laden smiling as he explains how the hijackers assembled, some oblivious to their mission until the last moment, to stage the attacks that killed nearly 3,300 people and which prompted the U.S.-led military operation to topple the Islamic Taliban movement for harboring bin Laden. The Saudi-born militant, however, remains at large. The Pentagon issued the hour-long amateur tape, found in Afghanistan, and provided an English translation in which bin Laden is quoted as saying: "We calculated in advance the number of casualties from the enemy, who would be killed based on the position of the tower." The comment apparently referred to hijacked airliners that plowed into and destroyed the twin towers of the World Trade Center in New York. Another plane smashed into the Pentagon near Washington and a fourth crashed in Pennsylvania after passengers rushed and struggled with the hijackers. "We calculated that the floors that would be hit would be three or four floors. I was the most optimistic of them all," the relaxed and bearded guerrilla chief was quoted as saying, adding the total collapse of both towers was more than he had hoped for. U.S. SEES 'PROOF' U.S. officials, who believe bin Laden is in Afghanistan despite rumors he has fled the fighting, billed the tape as conclusive "smoking gun" evidence that bin Laden, who has lived in Afghanistan for several years, was behind the attacks. "We had notification since the previous Thursday that the event would take place that day," bin Laden says. He also displays knowledge of a double attack on the twin towers saying: "They (his followers) were overjoyed when the first plane hit the building, so I said to them 'be patient."' The United Arab Emirates said the videotape was proof of bin Laden's guilt. "There is no doubt in my mind that bin Laden was behind those operations. The tape confirms that in a way that leaves no room for doubt," UAE Information Minister Sheikh Abdullah bin Zaid al-Nahayan told Reuters. The Taliban had demanded proof of bin Laden's guilt as a condition for handing him over. Washington rejected that demand and on Oct. 7 began the bombing campaign that enabled anti-Taliban forces to take over most of the country. As flakes of snow fell in Kabul, prime minister-designate Hamid Karzai won assurances from Afghan leaders of a peaceful transition of power but a bellicose bin Laden aide promised to fight on. "The real war has now started and we are now waging attack and retreat operations. It will be a long one. We will exact a high toll on the Americans and suicide attacks will be one of our effective methods," an Arabic magazine quoted Ayman al-Zawahri, the senior aide, as saying. "We do not hide in caves and do not run away from the confrontation. Suicide is our desire and our victory," he told the London-based al-Majallah magazine. ___ Comment By Dick Eastman eastman@wolfenet.com 12-13-1 "WHAT THE TRANSLATORS HAVE DONE IS TAKEN A CONVERSATION OF BIN LADEN ON THE SUBJECT OF WHAT HE WAS THINKING AND GUESSING AS HE WATCHED THE NEWS ON SEPTEMBER 11 AS EVENTS WERE UNFOLDING -- AND MAKING IT SEEM THAT HE WAS DOING THIS THINKING AND GUESSING AT SOME EARLIER TIME BEFORE THE EVENTS." All over the world people are shaking their heads in dismay that the U.S. Government would expect us to not see through this forced and twisted interpretation of this interview. Here is my analysis -- I am sure similar ones will soon be flooding every forum --- "The tape is transcribed below according to the proper sequence of events." EASTMAN ANALYSIS Note that the tape as found has been REVISED for translation. Before even the first word, we see editing based on interpretation -- we see interpretive reporting rather than faithful translation of the subject matter as it was discovered. ========== "Due to the quality of the original tape, it is NOT a verbatim transcript of every word spoken during the meeting, but does convey the messages and information flow." EASTMAN ANALYSIS Note that the translators have been selective and that they tell us that they did not understand/discriminate every word spoken on the tape: =========== ALLEGED TRANSLATION TEXT: Shaykh: (... inaudible...) You have given us weapons, you have given us hope and we thank Allah for you. We don't want to take much of your time, but this is the arrangement of the brothers. People now are supporting us more, even those ones who did not support us in the past, support us more now. I did not want to take that much of your time. We praise Allah, we praise Allah. We came from Kabul. We were very pleased to visit. May Allah bless you both at home and the camp. We asked the driver to take us, it was a night with a full moon, thanks be to Allah. Believe me it is not in the country side. The elderly... everybody praises what you did, the great action you did, which was first and foremost by the grace of Allah. This is the guidance of Allah and the blessed fruit of jihad. EASTMAN ANALYSIS I don't believe this. They soi-disant translators start in the middle of the tape instead of the begining of the recording and they begin with a passage in which someone is telling Osama bin Laden that "everyone praises what you did" -- no context -- leaving the average unguarded reader to presumtuously assume it is a reference events in New York CIty on September 11. ============ UBL: Thanks to Allah. What is the stand of the Mosques there (in Saudi Arabia)? Shaykh: Honestly, they are very positive. Shaykh Al-Bahrani (phonetic) gave a good sermon in his class after the sunset prayers. It was videotaped and I was supposed to carry it with me, but unfortunately, I had to leave immediately. UBL: The day of the events? Shaykh: At the exact time of the attack on America, precisely at the time. He (Bahrani) gave a very impressive sermon. Thanks be to Allah for his blessings. He (Bahrani) was the first one to write at war time. I visited him twice in Al-Qasim. EASTMAN ANALYSIS Notice OBL refers to the day of "the events" -- a passive expression -- not of "the victory" or "our victory" or even of "the deeds." This is consistent with remoteness from what happened. Notice also that Shaykh feels it necessary to specify "at the exact time of the attack on America" which he would not need to do if the context were understood or centrally-concerned with the theme of the conversation. ============ UBL: Thanks be to Allah. Shaykh: This is what I asked from Allah. He (Bahrani) told the youth: "You are asking for martyrdom and wonder where you should go (for martyrdom)?" Allah was inciting them to go. I asked Allah to grant me to witness the truth in front of the unjust ruler. We ask Allah to protect him and give him the martyrdom, after he issued the first fatwa. He was detained for interrogation, as you know. When he was called in and asked to sign, he told them, "don't waste my time, I have another fatwa. If you want me, I can sign both at the same time." UBL: Thanks be to Allah. Shaykh: His position is really very encouraging. When I paid him the first visit about a year and half ago, he asked me, "How is Shaykh Bin-Ladin?" He sends you his special regards. As far as Shaykh Sulayman 'Ulwan is concerned, he gave a beautiful fatwa, may Allah bless him. Miraculously, I heard it on the Quran radio station. It was strange because he (' Ulwan) sacrificed his position, which is equivalent to a director. It was transcribed word-by-word. The brothers listened to it in detail. I briefly heard it before the noon prayers. He (' Ulwan) said this was jihad and those people were not innocent people (World Trade Center and Pentagon victims). He swore to Allah. This was transmitted to Shaykh Sulayman Al ((' Umar)) Allah bless him. EASTMAN ANALYSIS First we see that there is indeed the assumption that Moslems were responsible for the September 911 crashbombings -- an assumption that OBL has already told us in to other video interviews that he first learned from American media sources. This conversation is consistent with that claim throughout. It is also clear that those in Saudi Arabia who are spoken of here naturally assumed that bin Laden was responsible for Sept 11 -- but so did Ariel Sharon and Laura Bush -- but that does not make them necessarily people who "know for sure" of complicity -- they merely assumed -- as did this man addressing students in Saudi Arabia. Also, here they are talking about bin Laden's general support in Saudi Arabia; they are talking about attitudes toward the concept of jihad and of martyrdom--common subjects for revolutionaries -- obviously they are please to have people willing to follow and die in their cause -- but this is the same kind of talk we would expect anyway, with or without the events of September 11. And we already knew that OBL wants to overthrow the Saudi government and do violent things in support of his goals for Palestine -- but, again, nothing yet suggests they are merely assuming that it was someone with similar convictions who, without their knowledge, planned and executed the attack (as bin Laden claims in his other interviews). =============== UBL: What about Shaykh Al-(( Rayan))? Shaykh: Honestly, I did not meet with him. My movements were truly limited. UBL: Allah bless you. You are welcome. Shaykh: (Describing the trip to the meeting) They smuggled us and then I thought that we would be in different caves inside the mountains so I was surprised at the guest house and that it is very clean and comfortable. Thanks be to Allah, we also learned that this location is safe, by Allah's blessings. The place is clean and we are very comfortable. UBL: (... Inaudible...) when people see a strong horse and a weak horse, by nature, they will like the strong horse. This is only one goal; those who want people to worship the lord of the people, without following that doctrine, will be following the doctrine of Muhammad, peace be upon him. (UBL quotes several short and incomplete Hadith verses, as follows): "I was ordered to fight the people until they say there is no god but Allah, and his prophet Muhammad." "Some people may ask: why do you want to fight us?" "There is an association between those who say: I believe in one god and Muhammad is his prophet, and those who don't (... inaudible...) "Those who do not follow the true fiqh. The fiqh of Muhammad, the real fiqh. They are just accepting what is being said at face value." EASTMAN ANALYSIS Note the translators are interpreting here, and they omit translating the word "faith" using the Arabic "fiqh" which in appearance resembles the English word "fight" --an obvious effort to alienate the reader -- these are not honest translators. ============= UBL: Those youth who conducted the operations did not accept any fiqh in the popular terms, but they accepted the fiqh that the prophet Muhammad brought. Those young men (... inaudible...) said in deeds, in New York and Washington, speeches that overshadowed all other speeches made everywhere else in the world. The speeches are understood by both Arabs and non-Arabs even by Chinese. It is above all the media said. Some of them said that in Holland, at one of the centers, the number of people who accepted Islam during the days that followed the operations were more than the people who accepted Islam in the last eleven years. I heard someone on Islamic radio who owns a school in America say: "We don't have time to keep up with the demands of those who are asking about Islamic books to learn about Islam." EASTMAN ANALYSIS Here OBL refers to "the young men" -- again based on the identifications that were in the media as likely as not. He talks about the effect of the destruction of the towers on the minds of people with respect to their support of Islam and presumably of its oppostion to Israeli policy and globalization and cultural deterioration from westernization -- all of these are remarks we would expect if OBL were innocent of the plotting as much as if he were guilty. ============== Shaykh: Hundreds of people used to doubt you and few only would follow you until this huge event happened. Now hundreds of people are coming out to join you. I remember a vision by Shaykh Salih Al-(( Shuaybi)). He said: "There will be a great hit and people will go out by hundreds to Afghanistan." I asked him (Salih): "To Afghanistan?" He replied, "Yes." According to him, the only ones who stay behind will be the mentally impotent and the liars (hypocrites). I remembered his saying that hundreds of people will go out to Afghanistan. He had this vision a year ago. This event discriminated between the different types of followers. EASTMAN ANALYSIS Here is a man who knows nothing of the details, talking about how the events of September 11 will energize their cause -- yes, certainly they are aware that those so energized assume that the crashbombing was the work of their hidden ero -- but this assumption is not of OBLs doing -- it is just an assumption that almost everyone was then making around the world, Saudi, American, Afgan, Jew and Eskimo. =============== NOW GET READY FOR THE BIG ONE: UBL: (... Inaudible...) we calculated in advance the number of casualties from the enemy, who would be killed based on the position of the tower. We calculated that the floors that would be hit would be three or four floors. I was the most optimistic of them all. (... Inaudible...) due to my experience in this field, I was thinking that the fire from the gas in the plane would melt the iron structure of the building and collapse the area where the plane hit and all the floors above it only. This is all that we had hoped for. Shaykh: Allah be praised. EASTMAN ANALYSIS This is an amazing piece of deceit on the part of the translators. First their is a giant jump of context -- an entirely different topic and tone -- and only the word "inaudible" is given to bridge the gap. But we know from above that the conversation had been about the effects of the television reports. WHAT THE TRANSLATORS HAVE DONE IS TAKEN A CONVERSATION OF BIN LADEN ON THE SUBJECT OF WHAT HE WAS THINKING AND GUESSING AS HE WATCHED THE NEWS ON SEPTEMBER 11 AS EVENTS WERE UNFOLDING -- AND MAKING IT SEEM THAT HE WAS DOING THIS THINKING AND GUESSING AT SOME EARLIER TIME BEFORE THE EVENTS. THIS IS THE WHOLE OF THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION'S PROOF? =============== UBL: We were at (... inaudible...) when the event took place. We had notification since the previous Thursday that the event would take place that day. We had finished our work that day and had the radio on. It was 5: 30 p. m. our time. I was sitting with Dr. Ahmad Abu-al-(( Khair)). Immediately, we heard the news that a plane had hit the World Trade Center. We turned the radio station to the news from Washington. The news continued and no mention of the attack until the end. At the end of the newscast, they reported that a plane just hit the World Trade Center. EASTMAN ANALYSIS Here again there is resort to the fudge word "inaudible" -- again we find OBL discussing "the event" -- possibly just as well translated "it," I suspect -- without context -- the context all hidden in that fudge-box "inaudible." Yet even this passage as mangled as it is still reveals consistency with bin Laden's claim of being innocent. This clearly indicates that bin Laden was NOT listening to the radio before he heard the news of the attack from regular sources. The whole government base is shot to pieces by this one statement. Bin Laden wanted news and he was frustrated that the news program was not telling him of the event -- he was not prepared to get information on the event. In short he had nothing to do with it. Q.E.D. and finis. ================ Shaykh: Allah be praised. UBL: After a little while, they announced that another plane had hit the World Trade Center. The brothers who heard the news were overjoyed by it. Shaykh: I listened to the news and I was sitting. We didn't... we were not thinking about anything, and all of a sudden, Allah willing, we were talking about how come we didn't have anything, and all of a sudden the news came and everyone was overjoyed and everyone until the next day, in the morning, was talking about what was happening and we stayed until four o'clock, listening to the news every time a little bit different, everyone was very joyous and saying "Allah is great," "Allah is great," "We are thankful to Allah," "Praise Allah." And I was happy for the happiness of my brothers. EASTMAN ANALYSIS Here OBL is merely commenting on the joy that the news on the radio elicited -- yes it is callous to show joy over the misery, but it is not crime -- it is nothing that resentful and fgrustrated people do when they hear of their enemies misfortune -- but that is a far cry from commiting the act -- at least in the eyes of the law and of justice. ================= That day the congratulations were coming on the phone non-stop. The mother was receiving phone calls continuously. Thank Allah. Allah is great, praise be to Allah. EASTMAN ANALYSIS One wonders about the real word translated "congratulations" -- it may merely mean shared joy -- but even if people were calling in congratulations, it is of course natural that they would assume that bin Laden was responsible -- certainly the thought of a frame-up would not occur to any of these people, not even bin Laden. ================= (Quoting the verse from the Quran) Shaykh: "Fight them, Allah will torture them, with your hands, he will torture them. He will deceive them and he will give you victory. Allah will forgive the believers, he is knowledgeable about everything." Shaykh: No doubt it is a clear victory. Allah has bestowed on us... honor on us... and he will give us blessing and more victory during this holy month of Ramadan. And this is what everyone is hoping for. Thank Allah America came out of its caves. We hit her the first hit and the next one will hit her with the hands of the believers, the good believers, the strong believers. By Allah it is a great work. Allah prepares for you a great reward for this work. I'm sorry to speak in your presence, but it is just thoughts, just thoughts. By Allah, who there is no god but him. I live in happiness, happiness... I have not experienced, or felt, in a long time. I remember, the words of Al-Rabbani, he said they made a coalition against us in the winter with the infidels like the Turks, and others, and some other Arabs. And they surrounded us like the days... in the days of the prophet Muhammad. Exactly like what's happening right now. But he comforted his followers and said, "This is going to turn and hit them back." And it is a mercy for us. And a blessing to us. And it will bring people back. Look how wise he was. And Allah will give him blessing. And the day will come when the symbols of Islam will rise up and it will be similar to the early days of Al-Mujahedeen and Al-Ansar (similar to the early years of Islam). And victory to those who follow Allah. Finally said, if it is the same, like the old days, such as Abu Bakr and Othman and Ali and others. In these days, in our times, that it will be the greatest jihad in the history of Islam and the resistance of the wicked people. Shaykh: By Allah my Shaykh. We congratulate you for the great work. Thank Allah. Tape ends here EASTMAN ANALYSIS The joy of men who hate at the disaster of others. The feeling of vindication when those who offend your faith come to ruin -- but no evidence of cooperation in this tragedy. SUMMARY THE GOVERNMENT HAS FAILED TO SHOW REASON FOR SUSPECTING BIN LADEN -- BUT THEY HAVE EXPOSED THEMSELVES AS WILLING TO ENGAGE IN DECEIT TO YIELD A DESIRED INTERPRETATION. Dick Eastman Yakima, Washington Every man is responsible to every other man. ============= Here is the second segment of Bin Laden's visit which shows up at the front of the tape: UBL: Abdallah Azzam, Allah bless his soul, told me not to record anything (... inaudible...) so I thought that was a good omen, and Allah will bless us (... inaudible...). Abu-Al-Hasan Al-(( Masri)), who appeared on Al-Jazeera TV a couple of days ago and addressed the Americans saying: "If you are true men, come down here and face us." (... inaudible...) He told me a year ago: "I saw in a dream, we were playing a soccer game against the Americans. When our team showed up in the field, they were all pilots!" He said: "So I wondered if that was a soccer game or a pilot game? Our players were pilots." He (Abu-Al-Hasan) didn't know anything about the operation until he heard it on the radio. He said the game went on and we defeated them. That was a good omen for us. Shaykh: May Allah be blessed. Unidentified Man Off Camera: Abd Al Rahman Al-( Ghamri) said he saw a vision, before the operation, a plane crashed into a tall building. He knew nothing about it. Shaykh: May Allah be blessed! Sulayman (( Abu Guaith)): I was sitting with the Shaykh in a room, then I left to go to another room where there was a TV set. The TV broadcasted the big event. The scene was showing an Egyptian family sitting in their living room, they exploded with joy. Do you know when there is a soccer game and your team wins, it was the same expression of joy. There was a subtitle that read: "In revenge for the children of Al Aqsa', Usama Bin Ladin executes an operation against America." So I went back to the Shaykh (meaning UBL) who was sitting in a room with 50 to 60 people. I tried to tell him about what I saw, but he made gesture with his hands, meaning: "I know, I knowÖ" UBL: He did not know about the operation. Not everybody knew (... inaudible...). Muhammad (( Atta)) from the Egyptian family (meaning the Al Qa'ida Egyptian group), was in charge of the group. Shaykh: A plane crashing into a tall building was out of anyone's imagination. This was a great job. He was one of the pious men in the organization. He became a martyr. Allah bless his soul. Shaykh (Referring to dreams and visions): The plane that he saw crashing into the building was seen before by more than one person. One of the good religious people has left everything and come here. He told me, "I saw a vision, I was in a huge plane, long and wide. I was carrying it on my shoulders and I walked from the road to the desert for half a kilometer. I was dragging the plane." I listened to him and I prayed to Allah to help him. Another person told me that last year he saw, but I didn't understand and I told him I don't understand. He said, "I saw people who left for jihad... and they found themselves in New York... in Washington and New York." I said, "What is this?" He told me the plane hit the building. That was last year. We haven't thought much about it. But, when the incidents happened he came to me and said, "Did you see... this is strange." I have another man... my god... he said and swore by Allah that his wife had seen the incident a week earlier. She saw the plane crashing into a building... that was unbelievable, my god. UBL: The brothers, who conducted the operation, all they knew was that they have a martyrdom operation and we asked each of them to go to America but they didn't know anything about the operation, not even one letter. But they were trained and we did not reveal the operation to them until they are there and just before they boarded the planes. UBL: (... inaudible...) then he said: Those who were trained to fly didn't know the others. One group of people did not know the other group. (... inaudible...) (Someone in the crowd asks UBL to tell the Shaykh about the dream of (( Abu-Da'ud)). UBL: We were at a camp of one of the brother's guards in Qandahar. This brother belonged to the majority of the group. He came close and told me that he saw, in a dream, a tall building in America, and in the same dream he saw Mukhtar teaching them how to play karate. At that point, I was worried that maybe the secret would be revealed if everyone starts seeing it in their dream. So I closed the subject. I told him if he sees another dream, not to tell anybody, because people will be upset with him. (Another person's voice can be heard recounting his dream about two planes hitting a big building). UBL: They were overjoyed when the first plane hit the building, so I said to them: be patient. UBL: The difference between the first and the second plane hitting the towers was twenty minutes. And the difference between the first plane and the plane that hit the Pentagon was one hour. Shaykh: They (the Americans) were terrified thinking there was a coup. [Note: Ayman Al-Zawahri says first he commended UBL's awareness of what the media is saying. Then he says it was the first time for them (Americans) to feel danger coming at them.] UBL (reciting a poem): I witness that against the sharp blade They always faced difficulties and stood together... When the darkness comes upon us and we are bit by a Sharp tooth, I say... "Our homes are flooded with blood and the tyrant Is freely wandering in our homes"... And from the battlefield vanished The brightness of swords and the horses... And over weeping sounds now We hear the beats of drums and rhythmÖ They are storming his forts And shouting: "We will not stop our raids Until you free our lands"... Bin Laden visit footage complete. Footage of the visit to the helicopter site follows the poem. Courtesy defenselink.mil Comment From John Marshall London, UK 12-13-1 What the Bin Ladin Tape proves The Bin Ladin video tape finally released by the Pentagon turned out to only prove four things: 1 - That the audio quality of Bin Ladins voice was the worst of those talking on the video (?) 2 - The sound was so bad that the Arabic grammer could be heard either way i.e. "we did" or "we said" could also be heard as "they did" or "they said" etc. Which means the difference between a person being a spectator or a mastermind. 3 - Bin Ladin must be exceedingly stupid to admit in an open dinner party (this while the US air force and special forces are carpet bombing the entire country) and with kids and guests all over the place that he planned and carried out the WTC attacks while previousely declaring to the World he had nothing to do with it. 4 - If he is that stupid then there is no way a person of that level of intelligence could have pulled of the sophisticated operation Washington claims he did from the caves of Afghanistan. Where is the "concrete" evidence they claimed to have before that is still being hidden from us?? Comment From Pat Taylor 12-13-1 Hi Jeff, I just watched the alleged Osama bin Laden tape on CNN and if you listen and look closely, it is obvious that this tape is not consistent throughout. 1. There were clearly two different photographers filming the seperate segments. One was filmed with a steady hand and indicated some experience with cameras and the photographing segment of the wreckage was filmed by an inexperienced person. 2. The man that was purportedly Osama bin Laden was not. His profile did not match that of Osama. His nose was flatter than that of Osama. Take a look at past photographs and see for your self. This was a look-a-like. 3. There were filming splices present at the beginning of the second Osama segment. Watch the man on the right as he takes off his turbin by unwrapping it from his head and placing the wrapping in his lap. Then, without a supposed break in the film, in the following close up, he was wearing it nicely wrapped around his head. 4. Also, in the first segment the word "God" was used in a context that is unusual for followers of Islam. Example: when the man to Osama's right was describing his suprise as of the extent of the dvistation to the towers he used the phrase "My God". What has been presented to the public as authentic, I believe, was not. I find it interesting that there has been little debate in the news media as to it's authenticity but not suprising. Yet. I'm sure others have observed similar inconsistencies and this particular film will be a subject of great debate I'm sure. We really appreciate your program and web site. I'ts one of last remaining sources of impartial information left for those who are seeding the truth. ___ Comment TOP_VIEW top_view@planetmail.com 12-13-1 New BushLaden video: Poor production, bad lighting, LOUSY soundtrack mar amateur effort ** NOT ready for MTV In the most-anticipated video release since the one of Madonna's live sex-change performance, BushLaden today released THEIR latest pop video to an eager world. And the world yawned. WHAT a bomb: this rancid, laughably-amateurish number is arguably the WORST pop video EVER produced in the history of Western civilization (such as there IS any, anymore...). Terrible production values, MISERABLY dim lighting, pathetic acting, an ABOMINABLY WRETCHED soundtrack and -- worst of all -- a HORRID lead vocal render this video an unmitigated disaster and UTTERLY un-watchable by all but the MOST brain-dead, tone-deaf heavy metal fans still surviving in in various isolated pockets worldwide. It's true: singer Osama bin YoYo has a HORRID, croaky, intolerable and un-listenable voice that makes nails on a blackboard seem like a choir of heavenly angels; it makes Jerry Garcia seem like Luciano Pavarotti. This clown CANNOT SING. And NEITHER, apparently, can his backup boys, Mullah Moolah and the Tally Bones. In fact, the rest of the band is TOTALLY inaudible on this tape. Although that's almost certainly a LUCKY BREAK for the listening/watching public, it IS a peculiar, and generally INEFFECTIVE, approach to music video production which should NEVER be reprised. A massive, world-wide public relations effort by band leader dubya bush to hype the video was a TOTAL waste of money, time and effort: no matter WHAT kind of hype this item gets, NOTHING can change the fact that it's an extraordinarily lousy product to have been released by the supposedly professional BushLaden Group, and will be relegated to the ash heap of history at or beyond the speed of LIGHT itself. Our verdict: NO beat, LOUSY vocal, HORRIBLE production values -- we give it big fat ZERO. This clownishly un-professional piece of DRECK from BushLaden will NOT make the Top 20: it won't even make the top 10,000, and that's giving it all the benefit we can, of every doubt there is -- and there are LOTS. BushLaden: hire some PROFESSIONAL producers next time, and oh -- TAKE SOME SINGING LESSONS! This will NEVER, EVER show on MTV -- THANK GOD! From John Marshall London, UK 12-13-1 What the Bin Ladin Tape proves The Bin Ladin video tape finally released by the Pentagon turned out to only prove four things: 1 - That the audio quality of Bin Ladins voice was the worst of those talking on the video (?) 2 - The sound was so bad that the Arabic grammer could be heard either way i.e. "we did" or "we said" could also be heard as "they did" or "they said" etc. Which means the difference between a person being a spectator or a mastermind. 3 - Bin Ladin must be exceedingly stupid to admit in an open dinner party (this while the US air force and special forces are carpet bombing the entire country) and with kids and guests all over the place that he planned and carried out the WTC attacks while previousely declaring to the World he had nothing to do with it. 4 - If he is that stupid then there is no way a person of that level of intelligence could have pulled of the sophisticated operation Washington claims he did from the caves of Afghanistan. Where is the "concrete" evidence they claimed to have before that is still being hidden from us?? Firstly, the difference in quality is staggering, the video shot outside was of such good quality and the video shot inside was of dubious quality, that makes me wonder. Why should the new "video" just released by the Americans be of such bad picture quality if it was shot inside and therefore had no weather conditions affecting it? Why is the video shot outside of such high quality? Assuming that Bin Ladin shot the new "video", why did he not use the good quality camera which he obviously has judging by the video shot outside? So, what we have here is a video which purports to be of Bin Ladin yet the video quality is so bad that one cannot honestly confirm whether that is really Bin Ladin! So why have we got such a bad quality video when we know that Bin Ladin is capable of shooting the video in even more better quality? This video is supposed to confirm his guilt yet we cannot even confirm if he even appeared on the video! I really don't expect this nonsense from a government, are they that desperate? Obviously, if America expects us to believe them then obviously they should have presented us a video which actually shows Bin Ladin! More points when I can think of more. Secondly, please take a closer look at the video, please look at Ayman Al-Zawarih's lips when speaking, this is the only man in the video whose face appears towards the camera while actually speaking a long sentence, and guess what? Yup, the synchronisation of the voice and the video image of his lips was not in tune with each other! Please take a look, at the video if you don't believe me, Ayman Al-Zawarih is the only person on the video whose face appears towards the camera while speaking a long sentence and the voice clearly was not in synchronisation with the image. Another point is the actual circumstances of the video, why does this appear only in Jalalabad and only one copy? If it was for distribution then it would have been in lots of copies, yet we only have one! Now, the language, the sound is clearly inaudible at places, and the rest of the sound is affected by the distortion of the camera, therefore how can we assume he said what the translators wrote down if it is so distorted? Why would they want to film themselves anyway? Think about it, you just committed the greatest act of terrorism and you deny that you did it, you'd at least be careful and never allow any opportunity for this confession to become public, so why would you be so stupid enough to film the confession even though you know there is the slight possibility that your video confession will get into the wrong hands? Would it not be better to just have the meeting without the risk of this worthless (but incriminating) discussion's speech found out? It was just a discussion and recap with a couple of men discussing something, surely it does not have to be taped to be shown to every Al-Qaeda member? Using that logic any random worthless discussion (to ordinary Al-Qaeda members) should have been taped, why have they only found this incriminating discussion? I'd like to emphasise, if one reads the transcript of the discussion, one would get the impression that it is just an ordinary meeting, sort of like a "how are you doing?" meeting yet this "confession" happened to be taped, why? I will update this page regularly when more thoughts emerge, God willing. [These two paragraphs below were taken from here, which features the 12th December article of mine but interpolated two good paragraphs which I reproduce now] All of Bin Laden's other videos have been exceptional quality, why is only this one such bad quality? What was supposed to be the purpose of this video? If Bin Laden was keeping a video diary, then must be many other videos, why was only one video found? _________________________________________________ 12th December 2001. A contradiction exists between Bin Ladin's "new video" and the letters of the hijackers. The new video claims to have "proof" that Bin Ladin did the attack, OK, but why does it say that he thought the hijackers did not know they were about to commit suicide? Did not the letters "uncovered" by the FBI from the "hijackers" luggage shortly after the WTC attack claim that they knew they were about to commit suicide? Therefore we have a contradiction, Bin Laden "claims" (on this new "video") that the hijackers did NOT know they were about to commit suicide, yet earlier a few weeks ago when the hijackers luggage was "discovered", letters were found which said the hijackers KNEW that they were going to commit suicide on the planes, why such a big discrepancy? Obviously the lies have reached such a point where they have got clumsy. Also, why was an ARABIC "video" found in Jalalabad where the people don't speak Arabic? If it was for distribution around the Arabic world then they'd at least find much more of these tapes, right? Another thing, this seems to me to be an attempt to further demonise Bin Ladin by saying that he "tricks" people to commit suicide, thus making more people in the Muslim world oppose him and some of the just causes he stands for. More more thing, if the people then explain this contradiction away as "lack of knowledge due to the cells being seperate", then how can Bin Ladin be blamed for organising this if he did not know what they were doing? Think about it, if these "terrorist" cells really don't know what each other is doing, then how can we blame Osama for the attacks? So, if the people explain the contradiction between Bin Ladin's video and the letters of the "hijackers" as due to the fact that these cells don't know what each other cell is doing, then we CANNOT blame Osama for "conceiving, organising and carrying out the attacks". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted December 14, 2001 Share Posted December 14, 2001 I thought I was the only one watching C-span tonight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted December 14, 2001 Share Posted December 14, 2001 also... I saw UBL say that they knew they were going on a mission of 'martyrdom' but they didn't know the details... still, that pretty much tells me that they knew what they were getting into... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dusty Lipschitz Posted December 14, 2001 Share Posted December 14, 2001 bump for the ig'nant... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMARNYCAKASW1 Posted December 14, 2001 Author Share Posted December 14, 2001 yeah i put this on another post, now its a thread, but im not a tali-bum just so ya know.. anyway, i think john walker should have been kept quiet, chopped up into pieces and fed to the camels to silence the embarrasment and eliminate trying to figure out what to do with the due process an amer citizen deserves for his role in that whole riot fiasco... if not for that reason then just for those Black Rapper posts... if you ever flip the channels of like renting old movies theres one with a young Dustin Hoffman called Little Big Man, hes and indian or hes an american, when the indians are winning hes an indian, when the americans come rollin mad deep hes usa all the way... mr walker had the chance to say yo wassup im a rapper from the left coast, i need a bubblebath and wanna call my mommy and my lawyer jackie childs...but he went to the priz and ended up taking part in the riot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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