thinksmall Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 http://www.wesjones.com/gatto1.htm "A nation that believes that it can live long, free and ignorant, believes what never was and never will be..." -Thomas Jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 there's alot of evidence to support this decline in the education system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WORDISM45 Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 good quote never read that one before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Huxtable. Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 the u.s. public school system is pathetic. and dumbed-down as fuck. a lot has to do with whiny parents that are more concerned about their child excelling grade-wise and hearing politically-correct, candy-coated rhetoric, rather than learning and aquiring knowledge. i think the public school system i attended was one of the worst in the country. it's sad that most of what i learned during my high school years was self-taught; everything else in school was just dumbed-down bullshit. and then there are many other social and monetary problems associated with the public school system that exist outside of the realm of the poor academic material itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Fuentes Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 parents are one of the blind supporters of this conditioning system called pubilc school. they just sent the kids and expect stuff to happen. ignorance from them hurt their kids. i hate the fact that they teach you to obey authority, and not question it. they feed you fear. long classes and short content of knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell jones Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Public schools are all about the teachers. If they are in to it, using their own independent thoughts and don't talk to the students like they are idiots, then school can be great. I've had a couple teachers like that, one told me he was far to the right of Ronald Reagan, had seen the Grateful Dead in every country except England, that the first gulf war was about money for the defense companies, and that everyone in the room would be offended by at least one thing he said, and that he didn't care. I had another teacher whose moonlighted as pushing liquor at a gay bar, and spent part of the class explaining how gay football was. In between that stuff they taught us Euro history and English, but they taught me that thinking for yourself and making your own decisions is essential. I guess that's why I didn't last too long as a substitute teacher, I was arm wrestling with the students instead of getting them to quiet down. Rant over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubbish heap two Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 i think our very own "the yard" forum is some pretty concrete evidence of the downfall of public education. but yeah, i agree with the article and our crappy education system. but the article didn't address private schools, which i'd be curious to hear about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WORDISM45 Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 I really liked that article except i don't think he provided any evidence, apart from speculation and seemingly pointless name dropping (when he mentions rockefeller etc), for his assertion that the school system is in such a state because a certain elite actually want it that way. In my opinion the public school system is probably so mediocre because it is the path of least resistance, as public schooling is universal it must also be catering to the lowest common denominator. Of course a teacher who has 30 kids in their class isn't going to be able to cater to the intellectual needs of the smartest student, or even the smartest 30 percent of students, the teacher is going to have to teach at the base level so that every student can at least attempt to understand and learn. it's expected that the brightest children will teach themselves through extra curricular reading and the like, or they will go to selective schools where the standard and pace of learning is higher (come ot think of it i don;t even know if America has selective schools, do you?). Having said this i agree that the length that students are kept in school doing absolutely mundane work is ridiculous. But when you think about it how the hell do you expect a system that is designed to serve all to do any better? sure you can just say there should be no compulsory schooling, and sure there would be plenty of kids that grew up really bright and do well, but there will be a fuckload more who don;t do anything at all and turn out even more useless and unintelligent than they would have if they didn't at least get minimal education at school. what the guy who wrote the article forgets to mention is that when Thomas Edison was excelling at the age of 12 there was probably about a 20% rate of people his age that could actually read what he was writing. If anything abolishing compulsory schooling would just make the system even more elitist and plutocratic than it already is. the public school system needs to change dramatically but i don;t agree with the authors view that the system itself is inherently flawed, rather it just needs a lot more funding in the right areas to work well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Huxtable. Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 in contrast, the US has probably the best higher education institutions in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WORDISM45 Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 and from what i've heard the most expensive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metronome Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 it's really expensive to go to post secondary in Canada too. I don't see the point of going into debt upwards of 80,000 dollars for a degree, when I can make over 100k a year with a high school diploma and some basic certificates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinksmall Posted September 18, 2007 Author Share Posted September 18, 2007 I really liked that article except i don't think he provided any evidence, apart from speculation and seemingly pointless name dropping (when he mentions rockefeller etc), for his assertion that the school system is in such a state because a certain elite actually want it that way. In my opinion the public school system is probably so mediocre because it is the path of least resistance, as public schooling is universal it must also be catering to the lowest common denominator. Of course a teacher who has 30 kids in their class isn't going to be able to cater to the intellectual needs of the smartest student, or even the smartest 30 percent of students, the teacher is going to have to teach at the base level so that every student can at least attempt to understand and learn. it's expected that the brightest children will teach themselves through extra curricular reading and the like, or they will go to selective schools where the standard and pace of learning is higher (come ot think of it i don;t even know if America has selective schools, do you?). Having said this i agree that the length that students are kept in school doing absolutely mundane work is ridiculous. But when you think about it how the hell do you expect a system that is designed to serve all to do any better? sure you can just say there should be no compulsory schooling, and sure there would be plenty of kids that grew up really bright and do well, but there will be a fuckload more who don;t do anything at all and turn out even more useless and unintelligent than they would have if they didn't at least get minimal education at school. what the guy who wrote the article forgets to mention is that when Thomas Edison was excelling at the age of 12 there was probably about a 20% rate of people his age that could actually read what he was writing. If anything abolishing compulsory schooling would just make the system even more elitist and plutocratic than it already is. the public school system needs to change dramatically but i don;t agree with the authors view that the system itself is inherently flawed, rather it just needs a lot more funding in the right areas to work well. he was a teacher for 30 years - thats a good part of his evidence, and the names are important. watch money masters the documentary. “History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means to possible maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance.” - James Madison. anyways, he wants to change the curriculum, it seems - because the current one is.. inherently flawed. and you say that smarter kids are intended to learn from extra curricular studies outside of school, which is not common. most kids getting a's, just get a's. nothing more. everyone else either hang in there, or stop caring. you're implying that people are born smart. if you're mentality stable, you gots the capability to be just another thomas edison. its obvious not everyone back in the day was a thomas edison........ but almost all have the capability. http://chaosgone-politics.blogspot.com/2007/08/cnn-hosts-shocked-when-republican-guest.html - that dumass democrat is the outcome of public education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WORDISM45 Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 why the shit are you referencing a quote about the issuing of money to this conversation, what the fuck does it have to do with anything we are talking about, i've seen and read plenty about international bankers and the FED etc. I understand that money controls the world, but it has nothing to do with this conversation. here's a good quote for you nonetheless "Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws." -Rothschild You can't just say that he was a teacher for 30 years and that makes what he sayd right, it's called an appeal to authority and it's a logical fallacy. It'd be like me saying George Bush is the elected leader of the most powerful country in the world and thus he must be an excellent judge in matters of domestic and international affairs, the dude doesn't back up any of his claims that it is a conspiracy to keep people dumb. i'm not implying people are born smart at all, but i definitely think that in the first ten years of your life you have established to a large degree what your intellectual potential is. Sure a lot of people have the capability to be great but it's not the fucking public school systems responsibility to ensure that this happens. The public school system exists to give a broad education that caters for EVERYONE, i can't be bothered reiterating this point as i've already said it go read my previous post to explain why. For someone to achieve whatever degree of greatness they are able to, of course a BETTER public school system would help immensely but there are so many other factors involved that it is just selfish and lazy to think that public schooling plays an overwhelming role in this. maybe people need to accept the fact that was pointed out in my public high schools motto: "Faber est suae quisque fortunae" (each man is the maker of his own destiny. stop blaming your mediocrity on the fact you went to a shit school and do something about it yourself. (not directed at you personally but on the population as a whole) either way please point out how what was in the article leads to the conclusion that the entire public school system is structured upon the premise of keeping the massed down, i bet the fuckign masses were whining about NOT having public education as being a form of keeping them down before they got it. People just need to blame everything else except themselves for their shortcomings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinksmall Posted September 19, 2007 Author Share Posted September 19, 2007 was tryna make a connection about who the funders of the educational system....... if it has any relevance. public education does keep the masses down, intentionally or not. I stated my point wrong. What i meant was, he's a teacher who knows why he teaches, and he has the right idea of why children should go to school - so that kids would learn to think consciously. hes not just the typical teacher, following the curriculum and what not. its like bush < einsenhower, but they're both presidents. most like the latter because of his ideals. na'mean! i dont believe the first ten years of your life establishes your intellectual potential. the ability to think freely can come at any age. and you cant expect everyone to have responsibility+consciousness, when responsibility+consciousness isnt taught - of course theres achieving exceptions, but you cant just say too bad to those who fail; try harder next time. because thats just not broad education that caters for everyone. kids are being taught to listen.. not to think, many dont want to listen and are subconsciously taught to be oblivious of thinking. whatever, they're already trying to fix the system. pilot schools and some other cool stuff...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spectr Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 John taylor gatto is the shit... read his book if you haven't.... I figured this thread was about him.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 +1 on the gatto book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smooth bruce Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 in contrast, the US has probably the best higher education institutions in the world. Nah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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