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lord_casek

which middle east countries held candlight vigils for 9/11?

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you are the king of getting information from objective, unbiased sources.

 

at the top of the page it says "bestirantravel.com" -- a tourism website to lure westerners to come and spend money in iran. obviously they'd want to discourage and play down any tension between the iran and the u.s.

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you are the king of getting information from objective, unbiased sources.

 

at the top of the page it says "bestirantravel.com" -- a tourism website to lure westerners to come and spend money in iran. obviously they'd want to discourage and play down any tension between the iran and the u.s.

 

 

the was held by the citizens, not the government.

 

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0119/p09s02-coop.html

 

 

 

btw: i posted this thread to start a discussion on iran, not the coming war, but the country and its people.

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i have to say i don't think i've ever met a Persian i didn't like, they're a pretty cool race in my books, all the Persians that i've met in Australia have been way more integrated and less insular than other middle eastern ethnic groups

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ahmedinejad asked, same as last year, to debate bush at the UN conference that happens every year, he denied last year..... imagine he asks some hard question at bush and he starts stuttering until fainting lol that would be gold....i never seen him debate anyone, kerry only, all staged, and it wasnt a direct open debate.

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As a side note, Readers Digest is the worst magazine I have ever read.

I don't mean straight up biased, but in like...good vs. evil, narrow, one single point of view kind of worst.

 

It's a really really scary magazine in all it's hysteria and pretentious seriousness towards any international article.

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Israel

 

Eilat, Beer Sheba, Ashkelon, Ashdod, Ness Ziona, Or Yehuda and Herzliya and Yehud Neve Monoson – Memorials in Israel

Dov Shefi initiated, with the cooperation of several Mayors in Israel, the creation of seven Memorials (two parks and six squares) in various towns in Israel to commemorate the thousands of victims including the four Israelis: Alona Avraham, Danni Lewin, Shai Levinhar, and his son Hagay Shefi. On September 11, 2007, a beautiful square will be inaugurated in the town of Rishon Le-Zion (south of Tel Aviv). The Mayor, The D.C.M. (Dep. Chief of Mission) of US in Israel, Director of US Dept of the Foreign Ministry and Mr. Dov Shefi, father of Hagay Shefi, will attend and speak on behalf of the families of the victims. For more information, visit http://hagayshefi.info and click on "Memorials in Israel".

 

http://www.familiesofseptember11.org/commemoration.aspx

better than candles if you ask me.

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Ahmadinejad wanted to place a wreath at the 911 site, but was denied by the police for "safety reasons." A few politicians used his request as an excuse to accuse Iran of being responsible for "state sponsored terrorism." They also said it would turn 911 into a "photo-op" for the Iranian president, as if they wouldn't do the same thing. Has anyone actually found evidence that Iran has a government program that supports terrorism in the last decade or so?

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070920/ap_on_re_us/ahmadinejad_ground_zero&printer=1;_ylt=AgFXwEOOk7X7_ih6aiz_b3xH2ocA

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Ahmadinejad wanted to place a wreath at the 911 site, but was denied by the police for "safety reasons." A few politicians used his request as an excuse to accuse Iran of being responsible for "state sponsored terrorism." They also said it would turn 911 into a "photo-op" for the Iranian president, as if they wouldn't do the same thing. Has anyone actually found evidence that Iran has a government program that supports terrorism in the last decade or so?

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070920/ap_on_re_us/ahmadinejad_ground_zero&printer=1;_ylt=AgFXwEOOk7X7_ih6aiz_b3xH2ocA

 

 

 

no, but bush is sending money to al-qaeda groups to attack iran.

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175256-55560.jpg

51903969_78c6bf4c7c.jpg

Some lovely Iranian murals, plus the weekly “Death to America” chants. Something tells me they(the iranian govt) weren’t and aren’t all broken up over 9/11, or any occasion when numerous Americans die.

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Has anyone actually found evidence that Iran has a government program that supports terrorism in the last decade or so?

 

Hezbollah http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah

Iran generously gives them money, training, supplies, aide in their creation, and a home. There wouldn’t be a Hezbollah without iran. They have also killed plenty of people, including atleast a few hundred Americans and likely the latest anti-Syrian politician to get blown up. If that isn’t enough for you there are also several al qaeda members, who Iranians supposedly hate, who fled from Afghanistan in 2001 and are under “house arrest” in Iran. Iranian weapons, which are highly regulated by the state and aren’t going to accidentally end up somewhere in large numbers, have also turned up in the hands of Iraqi Shiite militias (who kill sunnis if they live in the wrong neighborhood) and the Taliban.

In case you want links for the above http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/05/22/wafghan22.xml

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/02/AR2007060201020.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5479438/site/newsweek/

 

Now I'm sure you've heard all of this before from various places, so if you want to ignore this in favor of believing what Ahmadinejad says, feel free.

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I didn't say I was on Ahmadinejad's side, I just doubted whether actual terrorist acts could be attributed to them. Whether Hezbollah can be considered a "terrorist" organization is debatable, considering they are now in charge of the Palestinian government. I have no doubt whatsoever that the Hezbollah organization has been responsible for violent acts in the past (and in the present as well), there is ample evidence. But what definitely constitutes terrorism and just the acts of a government against another is hard to define. Shiite militias would be hard to define as strictly terrorist as well since they are organized militias and they are operating in an occupied country. I do not doubt that they are responsible for many violent acts as well. But if you are going to call all of them "terrorists," like the Bush administration is fond of doing, you stretch the definition beyond all meaning.

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175256-55560.jpg

51903969_78c6bf4c7c.jpg

Some lovely Iranian murals, plus the weekly “Death to America” chants. Something tells me they(the iranian govt) weren’t and aren’t all broken up over 9/11, or any occasion when numerous Americans die.

 

 

Our president once called the Soviet Union an "evil empire," and decades of propaganda successfully made the American people think that would have their hearts and minds infiltrated by godless communists. But no one was celebrating over here when Chernobyl happened. Just because the Iranian government hates the American government does not mean that they would celebrate the deaths of innocent American people.

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I didn't say I was on Ahmadinejad's side, I just doubted whether actual terrorist acts could be attributed to them. Whether Hezbollah can be considered a "terrorist" organization is debatable, considering they are now in charge of the Palestinian government. I have no doubt whatsoever that the Hezbollah organization has been responsible for violent acts in the past (and in the present as well), there is ample evidence. But what definitely constitutes terrorism and just the acts of a government against another is hard to define. Shiite militias would be hard to define as strictly terrorist as well since they are organized militias and they are operating in an occupied country. I do not doubt that they are responsible for many violent acts as well. But if you are going to call all of them "terrorists," like the Bush administration is fond of doing, you stretch the definition beyond all meaning.

 

I didn’t mean you were on Ahmadinejad’s side, I’m just saying if you choose what I wrote earlier is false or wrong for whatever reason that’s your own prerogative. Hamas controls (part of) the Palestinian govt, Hezbollah is a different org. You may have meant the political wing of Hezbollah which holds seats in the Lebanese parliament. In any case, Hezbollah and the various Iranian shiite militias in iraq that kidnap/drill holes into and then execute civilians en masse, utilizes suicide bombings/car bombs/ieds on civilian targets, launches rockets and mortars indiscriminately into neighborhoods, etc etc, and the way they are organized and operate, would make them terrorist organizations. If you want to get into some abstract definition of the word “terrorism” itself that would be debatable. But by the definition most people would use to categorize an organized terrorist group hezbollah, the mahdi army, and the taliban would fit the bill. Those actions make them “freedom fighters” or something equally awesome in their own and other’s opinions so whatever floats your boat. We can start calling them "murder enthusiasts" if you want, it doesn't really make a difference.

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Our president once called the Soviet Union an "evil empire," and decades of propaganda successfully made the American people think that would have their hearts and minds infiltrated by godless communists. But no one was celebrating over here when Chernobyl happened. Just because the Iranian government hates the American government does not mean that they would celebrate the deaths of innocent American people.

 

True, but after 911 a lot of the Muslim world were in the streets partying. So its not really a huge leap of the imagination that a guy who was actively killing Americans (among others) while Johnny Carson was still hosting the tonight show, was pleased when the financial and military centers of the great satan were destroyed. Even the regimes that expressed condolences, like Saddam for instance, were privately pleasantly surprised and had nice paintings to that extent put up in their palaces.

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^I could've sworn Iraq was the only country that didn't issue formal condolences right after 9/11.

 

 

Anyway, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is supposed to be coming to NYC for a the UN General Assembly, and he requested to visit Ground Zero to lay a reef. His request was denied. And various presidential candidates spoke out against him. I don't understand why they'd deny him paying respects. We ridicule Muslims for celebrating terrorism, and we ridicule them for mourning victims of terrorism too? Wow.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Times Online - September 20, 2007

 

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad banned from Ground Zero

 

James Bone, New York

 

Iran’s firebrand president has been barred from New York’s “Ground Zero” after seeking what one US official described as a “photo op” at the scene of the worst terror attack on America.

 

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad asked permission to lay a wreath at the World Trade Centre site during a trip to New York next week for the annual UN General Assembly session - at which world leaders will be wrestling to find a way to stop Iran developing nuclear weapons amid growing fears of war.

 

The leading US presidential candidates showed rare unanimity in denouncing the proposed visit to Ground Zero by the president of a country listed by the United States as a state sponsor of terrorism, joining a chorus of criticism from victims’ families, Jewish groups and local politicians. “Go To Hell,” the tabloid New York Daily News proclaimed on its front page.

 

Democrat Hillary Clinton called Mr Ahmadinejad’s request “unacceptable” while Barack Obama said Ground Zero “must not be a backdrop for President Ahmadinejad to posture”.

 

Mr Ahmadinejad’s request was made by Iranian diplomats on September 6 but the news only slipped out after General David Petraeus, the top US commander in Iraq, told Congress that Teheran was training and arming Iraqi militias who were killing Americans.

 

The US military said today that it had seized an Iranian suspected of smuggling bombs in northern Iraq in a raid on a hotel in the predominantly Kurdish city of Sulaimaniyah. The detained Iranian was described as an officer in the Quds Force, the covert arm of Iran’s elite Revolutionary Guards.

 

New York police said diplomatically that Mr Ahmadinejad would be barred from the “Pit” at Ground Zero because rebuilding work is underway. The police department also said it would oppose any visit to the surrounding area on security grounds.

 

The Iranian president, making his third trip to New York since taking office, is scheduled to address the opening day of the UN General Assembly on Tuesday just hours after US President George Bush.

 

He has repeated his call for Mr Bush to debate with him face-to-face, but the offer has again been spurned by the White House. The two leaders are both invited to attend the traditional first-day luncheon thrown by the UN secretary-general. But Mr Ahmadinejad declined to attend last year because alcohol is served.

 

Asked today about the Iranian leader’s request to visit Ground Zero, Mr Bush said: “The local police will make the proper decision and that if they decide for him not to go, like it looks like they have, I can understand why they would not want somebody that’s running a country who’s a state sponsor of terror down there at the site.”

 

The international response to Iran’s suspected pursuit of nuclear weapons is one of the major challenges facing world leaders at the UN session. The Islamic government ignored UN demands to halt uranium enrichment, despite two rounds of UN sanctions.

 

Political directors from the foreign ministries of Britain, France, Germany, China, Russia and the United States are due to meet in Washington tomorrow to discuss a possible third round of UN sanctions against Teheran. Diplomats say that foreign ministers from the six nations may follow-up with a meeting in New York next week.

 

Zalmay Khalilzad, Washington’s UN ambassador, said Mr Ahmadinejad should not use Ground Zero for a “photo op.” He suggested that Iran demonstrate its concern about terrorism by taking “concrete actions” instead, such as suspending its uranium enrichment programme and dropping support for Lebanese militant group Hezbollah.

 

The United States has also barred Ali Reza Moaiyeri, Iran’s ambassador to the UN office in Geneva from attending the UN session in New York because of his suspected involvement in the 1979 US hostage crisis in Teheran - a charge that Tehran denies.

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I'm so tired of the "your either with us or against us" mentality. I'm growing more against us every time I hear the hate speeches here and how popular it is. How the hell is stopping him from paying respects to 911 victims going to make things better. No special privileges should be granted to him but there is a call for a human chain to block him from going anywhere near ground zero. Sure he isn't on the same page with our popular opinions, I'm not either but the more we hate him the less we look like the "bigger man" and the more popular his own Ideology becomes over there.

 

 

A downward spiral hate vortex is forming here, the real terrorists are winning.

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The arrogance of the US is overwhelming. Let the man lay a reef. I'm sure he's genuine; he's not mocking the victims. Everyone here is also bashing Columbia University for allowing him to give a speech. I'm glad Columbia University showed resolve and said they plan on going through with it anyway. They have the right to allow him to give a speech.

 

I think it's healthy for relations that he be allowed to give a speech at an American university. We need to hear and listen to different view points. This country is overwhelmed with ethnocentrism, and it shows in instances like this. Arrogant American politicians and media pundits already have preconceived notions that he's going to Columbia to vent "hate speech". I doubt that. He's stated he has nothing against the American people, but against US foreign policy. And he has good reasons as to why.

 

Of course, Mahmoud and his government has said that they don't recognize Israel. They also fund Hezballah and support Shiite militias in Iraq.

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It's a good thing we're letting him speak at a University, too bad he wouldn't return the favor to most of the people there:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/06/world/middleeast/06iran.html?_r=1&n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/People/A/Ahmadinejad,%20Mahmoud&oref=slogin

 

Iranian Leader Wants Purge of Liberals From Universities

Sign In to E-Mail This Print Reprints Save

 

By NAZILA FATHI

Published: September 6, 2006

TEHRAN, Sept. 5 — President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad called Tuesday for a purge of liberal and secular professors from Iranian universities, the IRNA news agency reported.

 

“Today, students have the right to strongly criticize their president for the continued presence of liberal and secular professors in the country’s universities,” he told a group of young conservatives on National Youth Day, according to the news agency.

 

Mr. Ahmadinejad said the work to replace secular professors had started, but “bringing change is very difficult.”

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I think most middle eastern leaders thought "oh shit" when the towers fell. They knew it would lead to a destabilization of the region. Destabilizing the Middle East is the goal of most Islamic extremists, western oil companies and the politicians they fund. Bush and other terrorists want the same thing.

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The arrogance of the US is overwhelming. Let the man lay a reef. I'm sure he's genuine; he's not mocking the victims.

And Arafat went to give blood with his massive press entourage covering it, while Palestinians were having massive parties in the street, because he thought those poor Americans really needed his personal donation. Seriously do you believe Ahmadinejad is sincere? He has been aiming for exactly this reaction because is relying on the average American to be completely retarded and fed up with the president, both of which we are, to the point where we will believe he just wants to pay his respects and really isn’t a bad guy. And of course any notion of Ahmadinejad being a douche in the first place was just more jew trickery from the zionist media, just like they tricked us into believing the holocaust took place! This guy was a commander in the IRGC during the era when dozens of Americans were kidnapped and executed and they ordered the Beirut barracks bombing. It is a photo op, it isnt plausible that he was anything but pleased when all of his “death to America” chants finally came into fruition with the destruction of the financial and military centers of the great satan.

 

Arrogant American politicians and media pundits already have preconceived notions that he's going to Columbia to vent "hate speech".

So ranting about the big hoax of that holocaust thing, and how our promiscuous whores are allowed to walk around with their hair for everyone to see, not to mention the gays, isn’t hate speech? And all this talk about arrogance, Ahmadinejad is the one going where he is not wanted to make a statement about the evils of America. How do you think it would be perceived if Bush decided to go to Tehran and “pay his respects” at the martyr’s memorial? Maybe lay a reef and explain how they were all really terrorists?

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http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/10/20/gen.iraq.letter/

Call me cynical, but I don't think this shithead was speaking from the cockles of his heart either.

3rd-infantry-saddam-911.jpg

 

I remember both that e-mail exchange between an American and Hussein shortly after 9/11, and I remember that poster being found. I figure if he was speaking in an e-mail exchange, and not some big formal speech, that he was sincere.

 

If I recall correctly, that poster wasn't found in a Saddam palace, but rather some kind of a safehouse... a long time after the US had already defeated Saddam's military and captured all of the palaces.

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