Zig Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 its the other way around actually but you know nothing about my life stop pretending like you know me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CILONE/SK Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 ^ that is what I thought, full of bullshit and not a single ounce of original ideas. Your mom is calling you for lunch, you better hurry up before she gets mad and takes away your allowance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CILONE/SK Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Double post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zig Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 lol you know nothing about me why do you sound so sure? my mom is calling me for lunch are you serious with this bullshit? you're funny bro... first dude i know here bringing up mom jokes like what fucking level of maturity are you at? fuckin pathetic. you got nothing go plagiarize some more people who come up with arguments for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CILONE/SK Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 I have clearly said why I am against not raising the debt ceiling, which is the opposite of RPs view points. Where have you said anything that you think? Just went back and looked, all you did was resay RP talking points. Can you think for yourself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zig Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 seriously CILONE? where have I said anything that I think? man you are something else. yea i gtg i'll be back to this comedy later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CILONE/SK Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Just like I thought. Go google RP talking points and get back to us. Hahaha Or better yet, go play WoW and tell us how that is going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 wow. this thread really went down hill. copy and pasting and other shenanigans...etc. back to the thread at hand. http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/economy-a-budget/174717-when-a-cut-is-not-a-cut " Instead, the "cuts" being discussed are illusory, and are not cuts from current amounts being spent, but cuts in projected spending increases. This is akin to a family "saving" $100,000 in expenses by deciding not to buy a Lamborghini, and instead getting a fully loaded Mercedes, when really their budget dictates that they need to stick with their perfectly serviceable Honda. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fist 666 Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 this thread is terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CILONE/SK Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 wow. this thread really went down hill. " AOD, before ziggy boy started with bullshit, I was waiting on you to reply about the debt ceiling post I made in reply to you asking what I thought would happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zig Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 yea i ruined this thread my bad guys :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILOTSMYBRAIN Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 So you want me to back up something that is my own opinion? Which is every single thing you cited. When I ask you to back something up, it is something that you hold as a fact. You seriously can not tell opinion from fact. You cut and pasting a Lew Rockwell article proves that. He worked for RP from as his congressional chief of staff from 1978 to 1982 and also from many times throughout the years. Do you honestly think that anything he writes about RP is not biased? Also, there are strong indications that he wrote the racist shit from the RP newsletter. Someone had to write it and put it in there, it was either him or RP???? I really like how you refuse to actually write your own opinions and 100% of the time you use the words of others. You do not deny still sitting at home and being supported by your parents, so I will assume it is true. Go back to playing with video games until you can talk you points for yourself. You are a joke, without a doubt. Lew Rockwell doesn't really write any of the articles on his blog, he will post clips from interviews on his radio show, but almost all of the articles are written by other sources. It is a libertarian website, with libertarian related content, but how is that any different from you posting something from MSNBC or anything else that clearly favors a more liberal, socialist type ideology. I could go grab post's where Zig makes a claim, and than explains this claim, regardless of the fact if it is right or wrong. I'll say this again, Zig isn't even a libertarian, so accusing him of 90% of the things you accuse him of is 100% false, and just discredits any kind of points you might have made in any of those post's. I agree though this thread has gotten rather......silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 yea i ruined this thread my bad guys :rolleyes: i dont think it was you although (all i caught out of the last couple pages was where you called dude out on plagiarizing... serious LOLZ by the way) ... as cilone has this bad habit of not really debating in depth points. he sets the stage in broad generalities, someone refutes specific points, and then he goes back to saying the same exact thing he started with in a broad general talking head newspeak/talking point after someone spent 10 minutes refuting the general argument. then someone responds to this broad statement again and he says the same thing he originally said and after a few rounds it descends in general name calling over debating opposing philosophies on a G-damn internet forum. i'd personally like this thread to just be a thread about specific ron paul related type issues, but whatever. i'd even suggest if cilone wants to go start a obama thread, i'll stay out of it and i would rather debate specific issues in separate threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CILONE/SK Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 You have said that Zig is not a libertarian before, but I have to call bullshit on that. There is no way in hell he would rock Ron Pauls dick so hard if he was not totally down with that thought process. He always posts RP propaganda and uses biased RP youtube videos to push him extremely hard. I find it difficult to believe that Ziggy boy is not a through and through libertarian, but I could be wrong, but we do not know, because he never offers his point of view on things, unless you count him posting pro-RP material. As for Lew Rockwell, I understand he does not write much anymore, but he is RPs nigga and anything coming from him or his website is severely biased, much more so then MSNBC or Fox News being biased. To use it as a source for anything does not make sense, unless you want to discuss opinions. You can find anything on the internet to support your position one way or another Bottom line is that he does not explain his position clearly. Just because he thinks something, does not make it so. If he wants to clearly discuss RP, I am more then willing, but when anyone uses bullshit reasoning to support their position, I will call them out on it. Youtube videos from RP campaigners and blatantly biased libertarian websites are bullshit reasoning. BTW, I think most RP supporters are severely brainwashed and not capable of separating fact from opinion. I think RP is taking them all for a ride, because I call bullshit on him not running for congress because he wants to concentrate running for president. I think he is not running, because his district was re-districted and he knows he will not get elected again with so many minorities in his new district. So, he says he wants to concentrate on trying to be the president, but unless you are one of the most brainwashed RP supporter, you have to see that he does not have a real chance. So he sits back and says some things to supporters and collects money for his campaign, which he will then keep when he does not even win the primary. Nice little scheme. It is positive on both ends. If he loses, he keeps the money. If he wins the primary but loses the election, he keeps more money. If he wins both, then he is the president. Nice little retirement fund plan. No matter what, his ideas are not mainstream and if implemented, do nothing to take care of the middle class, poor people, sick people or anyone other then big business and the rich that will benefit from his free market bullshit. I have very little patience for people like him or his supporters. I think they embody selfishness and will leave alot of Americans to suffer if they get their way. This whole post is just my OPINION and if you ask me to back it up, Fuck You. If someone wants to discuss something concerning RP, I will be glad to, but leave the biased nonsense at the door and be willing to discuss him objectively without the campaign bullshit. BTW, if you do not like what I have to say, Fuck You again, I am not here to be liked or to go along with the flow to not ruin threads. I will talk my opinions and if I am wrong, so be it, but at least I do more then some people here and actually talk about what I think is right. In the end, fuck you all:lol: :lol: :lol: This is 12oz, not some bullshit RP forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CILONE/SK Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 i dont think it was you although (all i caught out of the last couple pages was where you called dude out on plagiarizing... serious LOLZ by the way) ... as cilone has this bad habit of not really debating in depth points. he sets the stage in broad generalities, someone refutes specific points, and then he goes back to saying the same exact thing he started with in a broad general talking head newspeak/talking point after someone spent 10 minutes refuting the general argument. then someone responds to this broad statement again and he says the same thing he originally said and after a few rounds it descends in general name calling over debating opposing philosophies on a G-damn internet forum. i'd personally like this thread to just be a thread about specific ron paul related type issues, but whatever. i'd even suggest if cilone wants to go start a obama thread, i'll stay out of it and i would rather debate specific issues in separate threads. hahaha, coming from you who does not debate how events will affect real people and sticks to hypothetical theories that are not proven and can never be proven, because they do not involve any statistical equations. So unless it comes around that they are put in place and we can see if they work, all that Austrian Economics, is just a thought/opinion. And you want to get into specifics about an opinion?? If so, I can have an opinion that is counter to yours, and neither of our opinions will matter will, because they are just opinions. If I am wrong, show me one country that has successfully used your theories in real life and is comparable to the US. There is not one. And if I copied a brief statement from someone who stated something better then I could, SO?? It had no facts in it, I was not using it to back up my point, and it was a OPINION that I 100% agreed with. At least It was not a bullshit FEC link that had nothing to do with the discussion. So Fuck you:lol: :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipod90 Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Classic 12oz comedy in here. Doesn't matter whether its RP or Obama in power were all fucked anyway.... Idiocracy is here to stay.... Oops I mean turn on your tv your favorite show is on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 hahaha, coming from you who does not debate how events will affect real people and sticks to hypothetical theories that are not proven and can never be proven, because they do not involve any statistical equations. So unless it comes around that they are put in place and we can see if they work, all that Austrian Economics, is just a thought/opinion. And you want to get into specifics about an opinion?? If so, I can have an opinion that is counter to yours, and neither of our opinions will matter will, because they are just opinions. If I am wrong, show me one country that has successfully used your theories in real life and is comparable to the US. There is not one. And if I copied a brief statement from someone who stated something better then I could, SO?? It had no facts in it, I was not using it to back up my point, and it was a OPINION that I 100% agreed with. At least It was not a bullshit FEC link that had nothing to do with the discussion. So Fuck you:lol: :lol: :lol: thanks for proving the points in my post right. but this line is just absolutely ridiculous. "coming from you who does not debate how events will affect real people and sticks to hypothetical theories that are not proven and can never be proven, because they do not involve any statistical equations. " you are actually trying to say that a school of thought that ONLY studies human ACTION does not address human action, BUT a chalk board full of nothing but hypothetical controlled situations that you need a ph.d in math to dissect, DOES study human action? i mean seriously dude, i just dont know what to say. honestly. im at a loss for words. *enter 'F you!' posts and an exact repeat of your previous post. * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CILONE/SK Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Like a typical RP supporter. You have nothing unless him or another one of the Libertarian jerk offs, say you do. Edit: Refer to my post two below, which I address the comments you made when you edited your post and added shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 i have nothing? i dont even understand what you are trying to say. as usual. always a bunch of gobblety gook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CILONE/SK Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Classic 12oz comedy in here. Doesn't matter whether its RP or Obama in power were all fucked anyway.... Idiocracy is here to stay.... Oops I mean turn on your tv your favorite show is on. I am willing to bet that you do not even vote. So fuck you too. :lol: :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CILONE/SK Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 you are actually trying to say that a school of thought that ONLY studies human ACTION does not address human action, BUT a chalk board full of nothing but hypothetical controlled situations that you need a ph.d in math to dissect, DOES study human action? How can it be a study of anything related to economics and not have a way to prove any of it?? You keep saying that it only studies human action, then why the fuck is it a school of economic thought?? Basically it is a bunch of people who think they are right, yet there is no way to prove any of it, unless it is put in place somewhere. And I have asked you a few time before to show me that place, if there is one that is comparable to the united states. You fuckers just get mad that I do not fall down your little rabbit holes trying to debate these theories, which would be pointless, because that is all they are THEORIES and OPINIONS. I would rather talk about how REAL events affect REAL people. Anything less, is just bullshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zig Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 this dude is the ultimate troll or he's seriously fucked up in the head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CILONE/SK Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 at least I say what I think, unlike you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CILONE/SK Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 If you want, I will discuss RP with you, but you do not seem to be able to do that without using RP campaign bullshit as links to support your points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILOTSMYBRAIN Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 So then you don't want to discuss it. This thread is about HIM, how can you discuss his views without using them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CILONE/SK Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I want to discuss HIM and his viewpoints, not campaign bullshit. If you need to use campaign rhetoric, you have already given up on the discussion. BTW, Fuck you, since everyone is getting a fuck you tonight. I want to make sure I do not leave anyone out. hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decyferon Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 My personal opinion of RP is that I like some of his ideas others I don't, I cant subscribe to one particular political viewpoint. I tend to look at what I think would work best and that should be implemented. There should be less regulation for smaller business at the moment there is too much red tape to jump through and starting a new business is hard enough, however I don't agree that all business should be less regulated, once you get to a certain level there should be a need to regulate. Government spending does need to be reigned in however I don't agree with getting rid of welfare. America shouldnt be so high profile in so many countries around the world, at the moment your foreign policy is too invasive, it needs to be toned back a bit, less spending on the military less presence all around the world. But to be honest I don't know that much about RP, I don't think anyone outside of the states has really heard of him, I have certainly never ever seen him on the UK news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 see, decy's post is well written and doesnt call anyone who posts in this thread a 'knob slobber' while its obvious we dont agree on much, your post above seems to say otherwise and you'd be a good alliance to have from an ideological standpoint if some of those things are your actual goals. the only thing i'll address is the regulation thing. we must realize that big business is usually the one behind or writing the regulations in the first place. this is because it is sort of a quasi protection and a way to seek a quasi monopoly through government regulation. example. who benefits more from a food regulation that says you need a half a million dollar USDA regulated facility in order to sell 1 steak to a neighbor up the road? a guy raising 15 beeves a year or a CAFO/feed lot operation? who benefits more from a cab license monopoly that costs a couple hundred thousand to get? someone trying to start a small time transportation service or a cab company that has 200 cabs? the only problem is the game of politics is very bad at equal treatment which is why it is impossible for the state to do warm and cuddly things like regulate only the businesses you dont like, without hurting the ones you do like. all these policies are 1 size fits all. the food regulators for instance dont care if you are raising and producing the safest food in the world in your back yard/kitchen or whether you are producing food so bad you have to irradiate everything and run everything through chlorine baths 40 times... both producers are in the same category and have to meet the same arbitrary idiotic requirements at their facility. its not about food safety, its about market access. since i tend to follow blackstones 'rule of 10'... that is its better for 10 criminals to go free in a justice system than 1 single innocent man be imprisoned, i must support repeal of all regulations except those that protect property rights and protect against fraud. (assuming we have a government in the first place) and this is ignoring the other economic consequences of such actions, but just on a practical every day standpoint. imagine if we took all the regulations you like... minimum wage/living wage, 8 hour work day, 3 weeks vacation a year, 25 sick days, paid holidays, requiring companies to have air conditioning, 50% taxes, 75% corporate tax, a bajillion workers 'safety' regs and dropped them overnight into a third world country. how many workers would still have jobs the next day? none. imagine we legislated that everyone in the world is only allowed to work at their current wage for 2 hours a day. who would have enough money to live? very few. the only reason we are able to get away with having so much of this stuff today is because we are so productive and technologically advanced. a tick is able to get more out of a large healthy animal than from a small dying one. and that is what taxation, regulation and like is... a parasite on productivity. check this decy... this is the essence of why excessive regulation is ALWAYS detrimental: (PS it falls perfectly inline with your view that smaller business needs less regulation) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84pg7HFJ9Fc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CILONE/SK Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 See AOD, I agree with decy 100% and I was agreeing with you until you stated "i must support repeal of all regulations except those that protect property rights and protect against fraud." Why is it a all or nothing approach with so many different things for you? Can you sit there and say that we can trust a oil company to not pollute the environment and to pay all the clean up from the messes that they make? Or how about a company like Walmart, who runs all small business out of most communities it enters? During the period between the civil war and WWI, America was very much so unregulated. Most markets were controlled by very few men and they merged whole markets into Too Big to Fail companies. This unregulated market system resulted in an even worse environment for new business to enter the market. They also did not take care of their environment and allowed basically slave labor, just because they could. The regulations are a result of alot of their actions. This is the closest period we get to your "Free Market" and it did not work except for the people who were making all the money. I think the major difference between me and you in this regards, is that you think that the goal is for all business to make as much money as possible, and I do not. I am on the side of taking care of people and the business community proves time and time again that if they are not sufficiently regulated, they will do ANYTHING to make a profit at the cost of the people and the environment. BTW, I will concede that there needs to be more ability to allow small businesses to start, but the reason that is not there, is because of the corruption of our political system allowing regulations to stop this. But I think it is because of big business doing this, because they do not want competition and they get laws and regulations to stop it. Even this is caused by a lack of regulation of business and allowing them to influence the political system to benefit themselves only. BTW, I still think you are a RP knobslobber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Why is it a all or nothing approach with so many different things for you? Can you sit there and say that we can trust a oil company to not pollute the environment and to pay all the clean up from the messes that they make? Or how about a company like Walmart, who runs all small business out of most communities it enters? alright, you drew me in one last time. pollution first and foremost is a property rights issue. if you cannot understand this, than there is no further reasoning with you. as of right now, it is essentially impossible for private property owners to sue a company that pollutes their property because the government has a monopoly on pollution controls. you cant dump a bunch of junk on your neighbors property without their permission just like an oil company shouldnt be able to dump a bunch of oil on your property. but you act as if an oil company wants to spill oil. dont realize that they LOSE money when they spill oil? that it costs them billions? which is it, are they greedy, dog eat dog, do anything for a buck or is their sole purpose to dump their product everywhere? just like how you cannot kill someone to achieve your ends (well, your ideology allows for this since you support a coercive government doing this to someone if they dont comply with your wishes) a business cannot kill someone to achieve their ends, nor invade their property rights. but your government does not allow this to correctly play out in a market frame work. in fact, they tend to subsidize industries that are highly detrimental. take for instance the price anderson act which limits the liability of a nuclear power plant. imagine that, the government essentially saying...'its ok! nuclear waste in your back yard? no big deal, that power company isnt liable anyway.' governments have allowed for a certain level of pollution. not to mention, the US federal government is the largest single polluter on the g'damn planet and you are trying to tell me they can effectively solve this problem of negative externalities in a market ? you've got to be kidding me. walmart is a great company. they are efficient. consumers have decided that they'd rather shop at a walmart than at a higher priced 'small business' in most areas. walmart didnt run anyone out, consumers did. by the same logic that says we need to get rid of walmart because they are to efficient and run out small business, is nothing but a way of breeding inefficiency in a market. if consumers didnt demand better prices and didnt want certain things, walmart wouldnt exist. by your logic, we should also be subsidizing the horse and buggy industry because henry ford came up with a better way to cart people around and destroyed 'small businesses.' During the period between the civil war and WWI, America was very much so unregulated. Most markets were controlled by very few men and they merged whole markets into Too Big to Fail companies. This unregulated market system resulted in an even worse environment for new business to enter the market. They also did not take care of their environment and allowed basically slave labor, just because they could. The regulations are a result of alot of their actions. This is the closest period we get to your "Free Market" and it did not work except for the people who were making all the money. economic ignorance. did you ever see what the conditions and 'slave' labor wages were OUTSIDE of the factories? they were FAR worse which is why people FLOCKED from rural america to a city in order to work for these slave wages. low wages are only relative. if a persons productivity is so low, they cannot make exuberant wages. example. who makes more money and who is more productive. a back hoe operator or a guy doing the same excavation job with a tea spoon? your logic would say that the guy using the teaspoon should make just as much as the back hoe operator. and this example is the exact illustration of why capital goods/investments and technology is need to increase everyones living standards. the oil 'monopolies' of the 'robber barons' which you are referring to were never monopolies. they were efficient at what they did and they gained a large market share. there was still free entry, which means there was the ability for companies to compete. this happens all the time, which is why a certain company can be the best for a certain period and is soon eclipsed by someone else, usually out of left field who is more innovative. by extension you would also have to believe microsoft is the sole monopolizer of the computer industry, yet some how i manage to type this on a mac. an 'unregulated' environment makes it so anyone can enter into business. to deny this is to show that you are blinded by nothing but marxist based ideology. big business writes half the regulations on the books today to protect them from competition. I think the major difference between me and you in this regards, is that you think that the goal is for all business to make as much money as possible, and I do not. I am on the side of taking care of people and the business community proves time and time again that if they are not sufficiently regulated, they will do ANYTHING to make a profit at the cost of the people and the environment. the more money a business makes, means the more consumers want their products and services. this benefits all. how can we conclude this? because if consumers didnt go into the transaction seeking to benefit, they wouldnt do it. do you purposefully go to a store to buy food because you are forced to or because you seek no benefit from the sustenance of the food? BTW, I will concede that there needs to be more ability to allow small businesses to start, but the reason that is not there, is because of the corruption of our political system allowing regulations to stop this. But I think it is because of big business doing this, because they do not want competition and they get laws and regulations to stop it. Even this is caused by a lack of regulation of business and allowing them to influence the political system to benefit themselves only. this is why your ideology is flawed. there are no exceptions to mine. for instance, murder is murder. there are no exceptions. if you kill someone not in self defense, you just murdered someone. no exceptions. your ideology says, we need detrimental and tyrannical rules and regulations on this evil business, but we need to subsidize this small start up business that does warm cushy things like makes recycled hippy dippy green sustainable whatevers. your ideology says the minimum wage is great, YET has exceptions for high school students, the handicapped, etc because without it they wouldnt be able to get jobs. if an ideology/law has exceptions, it shouldnt be instituted in the first place. but you are right, big business lobbies for regulations to protect them from competition. i want to get rid of these protectionist regulations to allow real competition. you want to some how keep tyrannical regulations, but allow only certain companies to be exempt from them for a certain period of time which is silly. did you watch the video i posted earlier? obviously not. if we had a free market, the political system would not be available for such behavior. it would only exist to protect property rights, you rachel maddow cunt licker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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