Ron Paul Revolution!!!!

[angelofdeath]

AOD, you are making my point, you are talking about the level of debt, when we should be talking about the damages of not raising the ceiling.

 

You have valid points, but can you say honestly that we should let the default happen in a few days?

 

we have different opinions on the repercussions of a 'default.' i have the view, namely, that its all a charade. its nothing. all the 'essentials' will still be paid. spending levels will simply resort back to what they were when obama took office. i still thought government was INSANELY huge then. there is no real difference.

 

i dont really get what this deadline is all about anyway... from what im getting out of it, its more centered around vacation time (aug 2) than anything else. they just want to 'strike a deal' before they all get to go play golf.

 

but have no fear, you'll get your debt increase. the USG will borrow more money, they will shackle everyone to it with this debt, and future generations will be be living under this crushing weight.

 

maybe im just weird, but i've always thought that if i max out all my credit.... that the last thing i would do is try to get another credit account to pay off the previous debt i incurred. the first thing i would do is cut out all my needless spending. i'd pay down the debt, i wouldnt dig myself deeper.

 

the 'best' case on this would be simply that the US declares bankruptcy and starts over again. i dont think it is going to be this simple. there will be civil unrest and a depression wont even be the beginning of it. its just a matter of when, not if.

[angelofdeath]

AOD I know you hate taxes, Im more talking the taxes of the super rich corporations that get huge tax breaks, not to mention without taxes the US would be truely fuck with no way of generating any income and with your debt you would be screwed. I dont want this to descend into another pro/anti tax discussion though and I'm sure you don't either.

 

well, lets not forget that shareholders are essentially those with tax burdens. they get double taxed. they pay corporate taxes and then they half to pay taxes on their personal income/dividends/capital gains. and lets not forget that these 'corporations' merely arent just some separate entities from society. it would not surprise me that most corporation denouncing lefties with retirement accounts are all invested in these companies. and they'll have a fit if their retirement accounts go down in monetary value.

 

just an observation i'd like to throw out there.

 

but on the taxing tip, if the USG eliminated the federal income tax, the government would still have the same revenue we had the last year of the clinton adminstration/first year of bush's reign. its not as radical as it sounds

[CILONE/SK]

See AOD, that is why we will never agree. I think you view the debt as a simple checking account and that there are credits and debits, but I see it as so much more complex. I think I have told you before that I think you look at it to simplistically.

 

Either way, I am cool if you are and willing to agree to disagree.

 

It is Friday and I am done with work and about to go get a pint.

[angelofdeath]

its obvious we'll never agree, but i would like to hear what exactly you think is going to happen if they dont allow the USG to borrow 2 more trillion dollars. just to grasp how much money this is... there are 2 trillion seconds in 64,000 years. we are not talking chump change.

 

the problem with allowing government to continue to grow is that the government has already reached a gargantuan level. remember 'to big to fail?' the USG is the ultimate 'to big to fail.' to further stack the deck of cards will result in a much more harsh crash and collapse. this minor situation is nothing compared to what it will be if it continues longer. due to its behavior the fedgov will collapse in the biggest collectivist car crash in history. beleeee-dat.

 

and to touch on decy's point about raising taxes one last time....

if we raised taxes on the people making over 250K a year to a rate of 100%, we would barely fund the budget for 4-6 MONTHS.

[CILONE/SK]

Phones about to die and I am heading out, will elaborate tomorrow on that.

[Decyferon]

AOD it isnt about raising taxes it is about removing the taxx breaks that these companies and very rich people have that mean they pay less tax than most, I have not once mentioned raising existing taxes just to remove those extra advantages the very rich few have taken advantage of for years.

[angelofdeath]

AOD it isnt about raising taxes it is about removing the taxx breaks that these companies and very rich people have that mean they pay less tax than most, I have not once mentioned raising existing taxes just to remove those extra advantages the very rich few have taken advantage of for years.

 

same thing goes....

removing a few 'loopholes' would amount to an insignificant amount. probably less than taxing all people making over 250K a year @ 100%.

 

you mentioned previously that we need to repeal the bush tax cuts... which is why i mentioned that if we made the tax rate 100% on people making over 250K a year.... we'd only fund the government for 4-6 months.

 

this is simply to illustrate we need to CUT and we need to cut DRASTICALLY. at least 10% right off the top of everything ASAP

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

Dude there are plenty of things that can happen, I'm not saying that the default option is the only option, but I am certainly not a fan of raising the debt ceiling because that is temporary relieve, that will only prolong the recovery.

[ILOTSMYBRAIN]

But AOD people are SUFFERING!

[Zig]

yo it's been like 2 days bro where are your responses you can't have a life.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[CILONE/SK]

its obvious we'll never agree, but i would like to hear what exactly you think is going to happen if they dont allow the USG to borrow 2 more trillion dollars. just to grasp how much money this is... there are 2 trillion seconds in 64,000 years. we are not talking chump change..

 

AOD, if we default on the bills that the US owes, numerous things will happen. But lets first understand that we are not necessarily borrowing money to pay for future items, this is money that we need to pay for things already voted on or legally incurred, like bonds. Our government has already said they will pay these things and now, some of the government, RP knobslobbers like Zig and teabaggers want to renig on their obligations. If we do not pay our bills, similar things will happen as if a regular person does not pay their bills. Credit worthiness goes down, which makes it hard to get more credit, which is not a realistic thing to strive for, because wether you like it or not, the government has obligations to the people to pay for things and it can not do that on just taxes alone. This downgrade will lower the value of the dollar, which will have worldwide implications. All of a sudden, when the dollar goes down, many people will find themselves with alot the same amount of money they had before, but it will be worth alot less and it will not be able to go as far as it could before, which will mean that not only can those people buy less, but that also equals a less amount of money going into businesses, which will then equal job losses due to lower profits. It just keeps building on itself. It will lead to a depression until another country, like china injects its currency to fill the gap from the dollar.

 

Another things that will happen, is that medicare/medicaid and social security will not be funded or at a minimum, it will be funded nowhere near the level that is needed. There are many many people that are relying on these items to actually survive. I am not talking about able bodied people, I am talking about elderly people that are not able to work or support themselves anymore and people with mental and physical problems, that are also not able to work. The government has promised that they will take care of these people and if they renig on that promise, it will actually cause some people to die, and that is not an exaggeration, it is reality.

 

The bottom line is that people will be out of jobs, have less money to support themselves and everyone will be stuck in a cycle that keeps building on itself. It will cause great hardships for at least a few generations of Americans.

 

I am still a firm believer that a balanced budget or a government that spends within its means does not mean shit, if the people are unemployed, hungry, and have no hope to better themselves, which will be what happens if we do not pay the bills that we legally incurred and have already voted on once before. I think it is bullshit that we have to vote on the debt ceiling for items that have already gone through congress. I wish the president did invoke the 14th amendment and let it go all the way to the supreme court.

 

the reason we will never see what will happen is because they will vote on it tomorrow and iot will pass, because the clear headed people in congress realize what will happen and also the Republicans know that the independents will look directly at the teabggaers when they do not get their healthcare or SS. Like I said, a balanced budget or surplus do not mean shit, if the people are not taken care of like they were told they would be. People are funny, they love waving a flag and standing up for a cause, until it affects them, then they will flip flop and turn against you quick. How many RP knobslobbers or teabaggers will still be saying the same old things when they do not get their retirement or SS checks and can not pay their rent or mortgage? How about if they get sick and there is nothing they can do to pay for medical care? Do you think that they will support the politicians that allowed the default to happen when they are personally suffering, regardless of how much they supported it before when it did not affect them?

 

 

 

Zig, I have a job and have to work and pay my bills to include a mortgage, unlike you who lives at home with your parents and plays video games, because you are a kid and do not have a full time job yet. So, go back to your RP youtube hunt and let us know of all the biased info you find and believe. How is the FEC link working for you? Are you able to figure out how it backs your point up yet???? You are a joke who can not hold your own in any kind of discussion. So, go away, punk.

[Zig]

yoooourr retarrddeddd broooo... punk.. retard... idiot... back up your points wheres the back up? wheres the facts? thats all opinions bro, opinionnnsss rofl

 

clear headed people in congress rofl thats a good one

[Zig]

Ron Paul: Of course, that’s why I want to stop the borrowing. I think it’s irresponsible to keep borrowing. If you have a debt problem, how do you solve the debt problem by raising the debt? See, that doesn’t make any sense to me, and it’s a spending problem and the Congress and the people don’t want us to really quit spending. Anytime you would have a token little cut, they yell and scream. So this crisis is going to evolve. I think everybody’s talking about default, but there’s not going to be any default in the sense that we’re not going to send the checks out and pay the interest; that’s not going to happen. Look at the bonds today, they did quite well, interest rates are going down, nobody’s worrying about it. But the default comes when we just print the money and pass it out, and the default comes because people are going to lose their purchasing power in the dollar, and that’s where the real problems come out.

 

CILONE = :confused: :confused: :confused:

[CILONE/SK]

Hahaha Zig = never has anything intelligent to say.

 

How about you actually get a real job and support yourself?

 

What is comical is that all you can do is cut and paste a RP speech instead of replying yourself, because you truly are that much of a RP bitch. How about you come back and tell me that you must cut your way out of a recession? because that is he is basically saying, and I will come right back at you with, we need to spend our way out of a recession. It is two different schools of thought and is another reason why me and AOD will never agree.

 

But your problem is that you actually do not have any original thoughts and are just another cut and paste RP knobslobber.

 

Are you able to actually come up with something that is not cut and pasted??

 

hahaha, I am still laughing over how much of a dumbass you really are.

[Zig]

last time i checked this thread was titled RON PAUL rofl

 

how do you know so much about me? my job, my habits, where i live, who i hang out with... pretty HILARIOUS how much you actually don't know. sooo judgmental you are... why do you try to make everything so personal? is it because you can't BACK UP YOUR POINTS. rofl.

 

all i'm asking is that you back up your points with facts, and if you can not do that... shutup and gtfo this thread. :lol:

 

Points you have yet to prove and back up with facts:

• I think most of you have seriously lost touch with what this country represents. You ways will disenfranchise many Americans, for the benefit of a few.
  
• You want to isolate America with your nonsense foreign policy.
  
• You want to sell out America by letting corporations do anything they want with your "free market".
  
• You want to let the most needy Americans go without help, with you insistence that private charity will be able to provide the level of help needed.
  
• You want to destroy the dollar and the worlds economy by getting rid of the fed, returning to the gold standard, and not raising the debt ceiling to pay for stuff that has already been approved by congress. Although this will cause many, many Americans to lose their jobs and entering America into another depression.
  
• Bottom line is that not a single thing that RP supports is based on reality and on hypotheticals that many experts disagree with.
  
• You talk about founding fathers and freedom, but you are the people that the founding fathers would despise, because you are actively looking for ways to knock down our country and you are doing it under the guise of freedom an being a patriot.
  

 

Are you able to actually come up with something that is not cut and pasted??

 

You know what's also hilarious... you talk about how people on here can't articulate their own thoughts and how we're all a bunch of RP knobslobbers... but you go googling to search for other people's arguments and steal their very own words and writing to prove YOUR points, acting as if YOU created it. At least I am giving credit where credit is due. Nice internet plagiarism RETARDDDD LOL.

 

YOU

I oppose libertarianism because it ignores that the wealthy have a disproportionate level of influence on society and law already. The transition to a libertarian dystopia would further exacerbate this disparity of treatment. The elimination of those parts of the government most disparaged by libertarians would unduly and unfairly impact those parts of society least able to offset their loss. When this loss is coupled by the institution of a "fee for service" or voluntary tax structure (advocated by many libertarians) the net-net result is that the wealthy would have a disproportionate level of access to clean food, justice, police protecton, fire protection and other services, while the poor would be left to fend for themselves as best as they could.

 

ORIGINAL SOURCE:

http://www.politicalhotwire.com/general-political-discussion/11803-why-libertarianism-doesnt-work.html#post304989

johnlocke - March 2007

I oppose libertarianism because it ignores that the wealthy have a disproportionate level of influence on society and law already. The transition to a libertarian dystopia would further exacerbate this disparity of treatment. The elimination of those parts of the government most disparaged by libertarians would unduly and unfairly impact those parts of society least able to offset their loss. When this loss is coupled by the institution of a "fee for service" or voluntary tax structure (advocated by many libertarians) the net-net result is that the wealthy would have a disproportionate level of access to clean food, justice, police protecton, fire protection and other services, while the poor would be left to fend for themselves as best as they could.

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Back up your points or shut the fuck up.

 

:D

[Zig]

Ron Paul: The Black Swan of Politics - Justin T.P. Quinn

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig12/quinn-justin1.1.1.html

 

I remember once arguing with an honest young atheist, who was very much shocked at my disputing some of the assumptions which were absolute sanctities to him (such as the quite unproved proposition of the independence of matter and the quite improbable proposition of its power to originate mind), and he at length fell back upon this question, which he delivered with an honourable heat of defiance and indignation: "Well, can you tell me any man of intellect, great in science or philosophy, who accepted the miraculous?" I said, "With pleasure. Descartes, Dr. Johnson, Newton, Faraday, Newman, Gladstone, Pasteur, Browning, Brunetiere – as many more as you please." To which that quite admirable and idealistic young man made this astonishing reply – "Oh, but of course they had to say that; they were Christians." First he challenged me to find a black swan, and then he ruled out all my swans because they were black. The fact that all these great intellects had come to the Christian view was somehow or other a proof either that they were not great intellects or that they had not really come to that view. The argument thus stood in a charmingly convenient form: "All men that count have come to my conclusion; for if they come to your conclusion they do not count."

 

~ G. K. Chesterton

 

A recent article titled "Ron Paul's dilemma" makes the case that "Ron Paul may be in the ultimate damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don’t situation as next month’s Ames Straw Poll draws closer."

 

If Paul polls fourth or fifth at Ames, it will feed the existing narrative that he is a second-tier candidate with a devoted but small legion of fans. Ames will be, at best, a wash. If, on the other hand, Paul finishes first or second, it will feed the narrative that he’s a straw-poll paper tiger with a small but devoted legion of fans that swamped Ames from around the country. The media will give itself permission to ignore the result and instead focus on the "serious" candidates.

 

Rasmussen makes the unfortunate factual error of stating that Ron's "legion of fans" could "swamp Ames from around the country." The Ames Straw Poll is only open to Iowa residents. A simple Google search could have prevented that mistake and allowed him to reword it differently, though at the expense of weakening his argument. A victory in Ames would not mean that Ron Paul is backed by a small group of fanatics that crawled out of the woodwork, but that he has strong core of support within the key state of Iowa. Let us ignore that fact for now.

 

Instead, lets focus on the substance of Rasmussen's opinion: The Ames Straw Poll is very important, but only if Ron Paul doesn't win. It doesn't matter whether or not Ron wins, or even how many percentage points he wins by. The Iowa Straw Poll can help every other candidate, but it can only hurt Ron Paul. The voters at Ames can have no bearing whatsoever on Ron Paul's viability as a candidate. A vote for Ron Paul ipso facto makes it irrelevant.

 

You see, Ron Paul supporters don't count, even though they are the paragon of what the ideal political activist would be. They are arguably the only true grassroots activists in existence right now. They don't wait for direction or leadership from Ron Paul himself. Rather, inspired by Paul's ideals, they act on their own. Nothing else in history comes close to what they've accomplished.

 

It was Ron Paul supporters, not the Ron Paul campaign itself, that invented the "money bomb." Money bombs are online fund-raising events, often held on dates with great historical and political significance, which seek to generate a large amount of donations within a short period of time. Such events are marketed through "viral advertising" where individuals take the initiative and spread the news of the event through online vehicles such as social networks, YouTube, and online forums. People who might think that their small contribution to the campaign might not make a difference, or who otherwise might not "get around to it," find themselves encouraged by a large number of their peers to take an active part in these events and donate larger amounts more often than they otherwise would have. By seeking to set ever higher records in hourly, daily, and weekly fund-raising, money bombs can generate millions of dollars in free advertising in the media as well.

 

Remember the Ron Paul Blimp? Once again, Ron Paul supporters acted on their own initiative to make something happen. At 200 feet long, it beat out the Goodyear Blimp as the largest blimp in North America. It also cost $600,000 to fly for the six weeks it was in the air, and might not even get off the ground this year. Flying over the eastern seaboard, it generated over $2 million in publicity. The blimp needs to be flying over Iowa now, but there seems to be little interest in it! A single money bomb could do it, easy.

 

Let us imagine for a minute a Mitt Romney blimp or a Mike Huckabee blimp, constructed and financed by grassroots supporters independent of their respective campaigns. They would be praised from the rooftops for their creativity and initiative. They would be asked, "What is it about Mitt Romney that gives you so much hope?" With such a spontaneous surge of enthusiasm and devotion for this man, some may begin to wonder, could he be The One? We'd never hear the end of it, but because it was part of the Ron Paul Campaign, nay, the Ron Paul Movement, it is referred to as a desperate publicity stunt of questionable legality.

 

In every campaign in the history of campaigning, a lost run for office means that interest in the candidate mostly dies out, but not for Ron Paul. Supporters of Ron Paul are qualitatively different from those who support other candidates. Jack Hunter summed it up perfectly.

 

Ask the average Paul fanatic what they like about him and all you will hear nothing but specific policies: "Follow the Constitution!" "End the Fed!" "End the War!" Paul is the purest example of what I like to call "philosophical conservatism" in that what he believes – strict adherence to limited government and Constitutional principles – is more important to him and his followers than how his party perceives him.

 

Even after Ron Paul lost the 2008 Republican nomination, the Ron Paul movement remained a force to be reckoned with. It was Ron Paul's Campaign for Liberty that forever changed America's political landscape. It was the tireless efforts of the Campaign for Liberty that made the Federal Reserve a national issue. Through countless emails, letters, and phone calls made by people who were educated about the Federal Reserve and Austrian Business Cycle Theory, HR 1207, The Federal Reserve Transparency Act, gained some 319 cosponsors in the House of Representatives. The Senate version, S. 604, had 32 cosponsors. So great was the movement to "End the Fed," the majority of Americans are not only conscious of the Fed's existence and activities, but are radically opposed to it. Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke now feels the need to have futile press conferences to try and win over the people.

 

A common soundbite you'll hear in the news nowadays (if you still watch it) is that "many are coming around to Ron Paul's points of view." The truly astonishing thing is that any politician can posses a sound, logical form of thought in the first place, much less convince people of anything. Scott Conroy's Doomsday Scenario may prove to be true, as the "famously devoted supporters of Texas Rep. Ron Paul wipe the sweat off their brows without batting an eye and descend on the campus of Iowa State University to propel the libertarian-leaning icon to yet another straw-poll victory". This, for Conroy, would be a tragedy. If Ron Paul were to win in Ames, the sanctity of the event and the godly wisdom of all who attend would have to be called into question.

 

Yes, it is very true that it is not how high a candidate can get in the national polls, but how many of his supporters he can actually get out to vote that wins elections. If you show up to vote for Ron Paul, however, well then, you're just some crazy fanatic who's part of the ever growing cult of Ron Paul worshipers. You are like a pestilence that swarms GOP events to drown out the voices of more reasoned minds, a sacrilegious abuse of the Holy Democratic System. Your votes are not to be regarded with the same reverence as those offered up to the other lying, thieving, murderous scumbags that always get elected president. You are at best an outlier, at worst, a very real threat to our political way of life. The Ron Paul Movement, the greatest grassroots campaign in political history, could destroy Iowa's position as an early primary state, and ruin the chances of any grassroots campaign for a small-name politician of ever being competitive in presidential politics ever again.

 

The establishment media would like to completely ignore Ron Paul by not even including him in the polls. When they can't ignore him, they use a very simple formula. On the eve of an important straw poll, say he can't win. When he does, downplay the results as meaningless. Now, on the eve of the Ames Straw Poll, they are hedging their bets with doublespeak; The Ames Straw Poll is very important, but only if Ron Paul doesn't win. It's a strategy that will likely stretch well into the primary season, but this can only work for so long.

 

When it becomes too obvious that the Ron Paul movement is taking over the country, they will resort to blatant lies and deception. This is precisely what Fox News did earlier this year when they tried claim that Ron Paul was booed at the 2011 CPAC by playing the clip from 2010. When Bill Hemmer asks Ron Paul how he felt being about booed, he laughs in a very odd, juvenile way. The way his tong moves around in his mouth, almost as if he is savoring the opportunity to humiliate Ron Paul, I imagine him once being a large, fat bully in the fifth grade. Ron Paul in fact got a standing ovation when he was announced the winner of the 2011 CPAC Straw Poll. Such an amateurish attempt at deception was quickly found out, and Fox News via Hemmer was forced to publicly apologize for their "honest mistake."

 

How far will the mainstream go in order to stem the tide of the Ron Paul Revolution? They already say it threatens to destroy the presidential primary system. Will they go as far as Glen Beck did, and group Ron Paul supporters in with terrorists? Perhaps a bombing or a mass shooting will be blamed on the anti-government Libertarian movement. A so-called "Libertarian Bomber" would be just the excuse needed to send federal troops to arrest people at Ron Paul rallies.

 

It all makes one wonder how accurate those polls are that place Ron at around 10%. It's clear that the media sees his supporters as a mere factor that skew the polls away from results that are more "representative of America." The fact is that Ron Paul does represent America. He opposes the wars, he opposes the income tax, he opposes further burdening the country with more debt, and he wants to restore sound money and end the Federal Reserve. What the media doesn't want is for Americans to figure this out.

 

They want people who like Ron Paul to think he can't win; his victories don't matter; he's a "fringe candidate;" only kooks support him; best to support someone else who actually stands a chance. The establishment wants to create a self-fulfilling prophecy that a Ron Paul presidency is a hopeless cause. Their plan won't work. Once the false paradigm is shattered and the people see the truth, Ron Paul will become President of the United States, and it will be all thanks to those "Ron Paul fanatics," the Black Swans of Politics.

 

Sounds familiar.

[CILONE/SK]

So you want me to back up something that is my own opinion? Which is every single thing you cited.

 

When I ask you to back something up, it is something that you hold as a fact. You seriously can not tell opinion from fact. You cut and pasting a Lew Rockwell article proves that. He worked for RP from as his congressional chief of staff from 1978 to 1982 and also from many times throughout the years. Do you honestly think that anything he writes about RP is not biased? Also, there are strong indications that he wrote the racist shit from the RP newsletter. Someone had to write it and put it in there, it was either him or RP????

 

I really like how you refuse to actually write your own opinions and 100% of the time you use the words of others.

 

You do not deny still sitting at home and being supported by your parents, so I will assume it is true. Go back to playing with video games until you can talk you points for yourself.

 

You are a joke, without a doubt.

[Zig]

no response to that plagiarism? hahaha

[CILONE/SK]

BTW I really like how you do not counter point amything I had to say.

 

Could not find a YouTube video or bias website to copy from?

[Zig]

you don't bother to counter anything i say and completely ignore shit so i'm just laughing at you now. yo google another argument and plagiarize it, it might work out for you this time maybe we won't find out.

[CILONE/SK]

no response to that plagiarism? hahaha

 

No need, I saw something that was able to say what I wanted to say.

 

I am still able to talk my points, which you have proven you are not able to do.

 

What is sad is that you spent time googling my posts. It just shows how pathetic you are.

 

Did your mom make your breakfast this morning before giving you allowance?

[CILONE/SK]

you don't bother to counter anything i say and completely ignore shit so i'm just laughing at you now. yo google another argument and plagiarize it, it might work out for you this time maybe we won't find out.

 

 

You must really be blind. You really have not said anything. How do you counter an opinion based in biased info?

 

Anything you offered up with substance, I have shot down.

[Zig]

so let me get this right

 

if YOU see something that is able to say what YOU want to say, YOU'RE allowed to cut and paste it here without SOURCING it and pretend like it's YOURs.

 

but if I come here and copy and paste an article, or a statement from a credible source or politician and I make sure it's citated... I can't do that to back up my points right?

 

makes sense.

[Zig]

ahaha the only thing you've shut down is your brain

[CILONE/SK]

Wrong, I am not getting on you for cutting and pasting only, I think you are an idiot because that is all you do.

 

You are not able to tell the difference between fact and opinion. You take biased articles and present them as fact, which would not be a problem if you are able to talk it in support of them.

 

Although I disagree with AOD, he is at least able to talk his points. You are not able to. It is that simple.

[Zig]

got huge double standards going on around here

 

you know why I googled your shit, because I was re-reading it and realized you can't write that well. rofl.

[CILONE/SK]

Not one thing you have said is in support of your own points in the last few pages. You dI not even offer a counter point to my points.

 

I have a feeling where you stand on the debt ceiling, but since you have not even posted that, how should we know?

 

Learn to come up with your own opinions and learn to talk them.

[Zig]

you just keep saying nothing ive said matters or doesnt support my arguments, your clearly stupid man i don't know what to say to you lol

 

THE GUY WHO PLAGIARIZES OTHER PEOPLES ARGUMENTS TELLS ME TO COME UP WITH MY OWN OPINIONS. CLASSIC 12OZ.

[CILONE/SK]

You googled them because you are a loser who has alot of free time because you are supported by your parents, so yOu have alot of time.

[CILONE/SK]

you just keep saying nothing ive said matters or doesnt support my arguments, your clearly stupid man i don't know what to say to you lol

 

Show us where you wrote your own opinion in anything in the last few pages and talked them to back them up?