DeweyVonGumpsteinAndTheWiz Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 This does NOT look good: Forget bouncers scrutinizing your age while looking at your ID. A new federal government plan to issue a national driver's license may have people questioning your ethnicity. A uniform ID card would replace all individual state drivers' licenses and non-driving IDs and has been pegged to go into effect by May 11, 2008, but states such as Maine are already kicking up a fuss about the ruling. Even though the plan for the IDs might work out eventually, the law will probably come under even more fire when budgets are put out in the summer months. The largest issue states have with the IDs is that of cost. With states already in systems of updating driver's licenses for millions of citizens, the added expenses of suddenly changing over to a new card could be prohibitive. In fact, the secretary of Homeland Security can extend the deadline for states that feel the budget pinch. Estimates for Pennsylvania are about $80 million. Imagine the cost for a state like California, with a much larger population some economic hardships. It's no wonder states are up in arms over the law -- but that's actually a good thing. Regardless of whether or not a national ID is the way to go, states have the right to rally against some decisions made by the federal government. For a system that had been managed by the states themselves since there were driver's licenses, the resentment from the federal government stepping in is justified. Also, there could be some fear of a "Big Brother" type effect taking over if the government puts almost every bit of personal information someone has onto a plastic card. Of course, the government already possesses, or has access, to all of that information, but in a world where we are so frightened of identity theft, the piece of mind that the ID could take away might be irreplaceable. Piece of mind aside though, centralizing information onto one card might be a good step. With Social Security cards, licenses, passports etc., for people to carry around as identification, a single form of ID would easily be more convenient. And in a technological age, if the card was lost or stolen, the card and all of the information on it could be canceled or flagged until the situation is resolved. Security is probably one of the more prominent aims of the ID card. With states and the nation trying to crack down on illegal immigration, the card could be a tool for that as well. These cards should be nearly impossible to forge and could put a halt to people acquiring false identification when crossing into the country. It can work the other way, too. For years it was easy to cross into Canada from the Untied States (It is the world's largest un-militarized border, you know). But now with an upcoming passport requirement to gain entrance to our neighbor to the north, a simple ID card would have some benefits. A national ID is also nothing new, as countries such as England have already gone to a standard federal system. We don't hear too much from across the Atlantic about it, so it must be working out OK for them. Maybe it's time for America to follow suit. Although we might not see these national IDs any time soon, without much of a prayer to have them issued by May 2008, a step in the right direction never hurts. Part of the reason that we're seeing a debate is because to get the ball rolling the federal government has to push a little too hard. By the setting the bar too high, it ensures that the issue be included in discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 it's been in the works for some time. they are transtitioning right now. see: fingerprints and retinal scans on some state id's. all we have to do, as a nation, is deny these fucking things. the system won't work if we refuse to be a part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 ^^^ the peeps in this nation arent that smart. all people are gonna hear is "oh, but if we deny these things in our state, we wont be able to get on airplanes!!" this is america, you dont have to carry a govt cattle card. that being said, almost every citizen of the US has had one since Herr Roosevelt enacted social security. people oppposed the system also on the grounds of it establishing a national ID system. opponents were called uncaring, rich, anti old people hate mongers. proponents warned that SS card would only be used for the SS system not for identification purposes. hahaha, sure. so if people are really opposed to these national ID's, they should also opposed to the communist healthcare schemes and social 'security' mandated retirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell jones Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 You have to admire AOD's single mindedness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 AOD is a smart muffucka. i wouldn't dare go head to head with him on a debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell jones Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Well I'm pretty dumb, but I make up for it with persistence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Well I'm pretty dumb, but I make up for it with persistence. genentech is taking volunteers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fermentor666 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 AOD is a smart muffucka. i wouldn't dare go head to head with him on a debate. Why? It's fun! I hate how my SS number is required for so many things. In at least MA, your SS number is automatically your driver's liscense number unless you formally request a randomly generated number (which I did). But it's needed for school, employment, banks, etc. My school even uses it for e-mail passwords. And what can I do? The I.D. card bill was passed, wasn't it? Haven't we already boarded that one-way express train? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Why? It's fun! I hate how my SS number is required for so many things. In at least MA, your SS number is automatically your driver's liscense number unless you formally request a randomly generated number (which I did). But it's needed for school, employment, banks, etc. My school even uses it for e-mail passwords. And what can I do? The I.D. card bill was passed, wasn't it? Haven't we already boarded that one-way express train? well, technically, it's illegal for any non-govt business/agency to request your SS number. and yeah, the REAL ID act has been passed for some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fermentor666 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Are you sure it's illegal? I'm not so sure you are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Are you sure it's illegal? I'm not so sure you are right. yep. not even doctors. Section 7 of the Privacy Act further provides that any agency requesting an individual to disclose his SSN must "inform that individual whether that disclosure is mandatory or voluntary, by what statutory authority such number is solicited, and what uses will be made of it." At the time of its enactment, Congress recognized the dangers of widespread use of SSNs as universal identifiers. In its report supporting the adoption of this provision, the Senate Committee stated that the widespread use of SSNs as universal identifiers in the public and private sectors is "one of the most serious manifestations of privacy concerns in the Nation." Short of prohibiting the use of the SSN outright, the provision in the Privacy Act attempts to limit the use of the number to only those purposes where there is clear legal authority to collect the SSN. It was hoped that citizens, fully informed where the disclosure was not required by law and facing no loss of opportunity in failing to provide the SSN, would be unlikely to provide an SSN and institutions would not pursue the SSN as a form of identification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spectr Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 you know I really don't fear things like this... you really have to consider who is implementing these policies... yeah those people... I mean come on look at all the government waste and fraud.. these same people are supposed to come up with a system that makes it harder for people to pretend to be someone else... all this means is that people are going to have to be a bit more inventive to circumvent the system but the ways will always be there.. Its like new technology, no matter how dangerous it can be there are always going to be ways to use it to your advantage you just got to be smart enough to know how. Its not like that informations isn't there for anyone who knows how to use google... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 i hate to sound like the cliche' conspiracy nut, but "that is what they want you to think" it's like this, there are no mistakes in govt. you think those thiink-tanks are full of idiots? the strategists, too? oh yeah, spectr, download greg palasts book "armed madhouse" in audio book format from demonoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spectr Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 ok I will check it... and actually they forget who develops the technology.. which is people like you and I.. regardless of how brilliant those think tanks might be, they still rely on people like you and me.. Especially now that everything is relying on computers more and more.. Though thats not to say that I want it to happen, I don't approve of a national I.D. at all... I think its a horrible idea.. though not as bad as rfid chips in your passports containing all your personal data... I know lets just let anyone scan and download all my personal information as they walk by me at the airport.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 put your passport into a microwave for about 3 secs. takes care of the chip without burning the paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 you are right. people/the market create technology. technology is a good thing. the problem is, is the government gets ahold of things are regulates/outlaws it for normal people to use. 2 way gmrs, 10 meter ham, and other radios are a perfect example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 you are right. people/the market create technology. technology is a good thing. the problem is, is the government gets ahold of things are regulates/outlaws it for normal people to use. 2 way gmrs, 10 meter ham, and other radios are a perfect example. well, the people work for the gummint. seeing as how i've always heard (from military people) that military tech is about 50-75 years ahead of public tech, i'd say that it's more harmful to us as the public than anything. look at space planes. old tech. 1951 sr-71 blackbird. look at HAARP. there are so many examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gat Bush Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 i cant wait til im dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WORDISM45 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 put your passport into a microwave for about 3 secs. takes care of the chip without burning the paper. yeah thats a great idea for when you want to travel and you buy tickets and pack your luggage and shit but then you cant get through customs because you fucked up your passport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 "military tech is about 50-75 years ahead of public tech, i'd say that it's more harmful to us as the public than anything. true that. i think it mostly has to do with the government putting a strangle hold on the private industry. for instance, the only 'private' weapons companies sell exclusively to the military. this is obvioulsy because the govt restricts citizens from owning crazy missles and what not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 yeah thats a great idea for when you want to travel and you buy tickets and pack your luggage and shit but then you cant get through customs because you fucked up your passport not necessarily. AOD: greg palast "armed madhouse" buy the book or find the audio book online. i know you know about alot of the stuff he talks about in it, but it's fucking brilliant. he really puts things into perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 i'll check it out man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 i'll check it out man. http://www.scrape3.dreamhosters.com/Results/index.php?search=greg%20palast&ft=basic&season=&episode=&rt=&sort=seed&rd=&fz=&pf= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WORDISM45 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 yeah saying not necessarily makes you right casek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 yumone: why must you be such an ass? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/15/AR2006091500923.html The ID Chip You Don't Want in Your Passport By Bruce Schneier Saturday, September 16, 2006; Page A21 If you have a passport, now is the time to renew it -- even if it's not set to expire anytime soon. If you don't have a passport and think you might need one, now is the time to get it. In many countries, including the United States, passports will soon be equipped with RFID chips. And you don't want one of these chips in your passport. RFID stands for "radio-frequency identification." Passports with RFID chips store an electronic copy of the passport information: your name, a digitized picture, etc. And in the future, the chip might store fingerprints or digital visas from various countries. By itself, this is no problem. But RFID chips don't have to be plugged in to a reader to operate. Like the chips used for automatic toll collection on roads or automatic fare collection on subways, these chips operate via proximity. The risk to you is the possibility of surreptitious access: Your passport information might be read without your knowledge or consent by a government trying to track your movements, a criminal trying to steal your identity or someone just curious about your citizenship. At first the State Department belittled those risks, but in response to criticism from experts it has implemented some security features. Passports will come with a shielded cover, making it much harder to read the chip when the passport is closed. And there are now access-control and encryption mechanisms, making it much harder for an unauthorized reader to collect, understand and alter the data. Although those measures help, they don't go far enough. The shielding does no good when the passport is open. Travel abroad and you'll notice how often you have to show your passport: at hotels, banks, Internet cafes. Anyone intent on harvesting passport data could set up a reader at one of those places. And although the State Department insists that the chip can be read only by a reader that is inches away, the chips have been read from many feet away. The other security mechanisms are also vulnerable, and several security researchers have already discovered flaws. One found that he could identify individual chips via unique characteristics of the radio transmissions. Another successfully cloned a chip. The State Department called this a "meaningless stunt," pointing out that the researcher could not read or change the data. But the researcher spent only two weeks trying; the security of your passport has to be strong enough to last 10 years. This is perhaps the greatest risk. The security mechanisms on your passport chip have to last the lifetime of your passport. It is as ridiculous to think that passport security will remain secure for that long as it would be to think that you won't see another security update for Microsoft Windows in that time. Improvements in antenna technology will certainly increase the distance at which they can be read and might even allow unauthorized readers to penetrate the shielding. Whatever happens, if you have a passport with an RFID chip, you're stuck. Although popping your passport in the microwave will disable the chip, the shielding will cause all kinds of sparking. And although the United States has said that a nonworking chip will not invalidate a passport, it is unclear if one with a deliberately damaged chip will be honored. The Colorado passport office is already issuing RFID passports, and the State Department expects all U.S. passport offices to be doing so by the end of the year. Many other countries are in the process of changing over. So get a passport before it's too late. With your new passport you can wait another 10 years for an RFID passport, when the technology will be more mature, when we will have a better understanding of the security risks and when there will be other technologies we can use to cut the risks. You don't want to be a guinea pig on this one. Bruce Schneier writes often on security subjects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 make an rfid zapper out of a disposable camera https://events.ccc.de/congress/2005/wiki/RFID-Zapper(EN) (it is a crime in the U.>S. to knowingly zap a rfid chip punishable by 250 years in the federal pen) rfid blocking wallet http://www.rpi-polymath.com/ducttape/RFIDWallet.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WORDISM45 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 whoah thats fuckign crazy that its a crime with that much punishment it shwos theres mroe to it than just using it as convenient mode for identification and in response to the microwaving trick i refuse to believe that if you disable the device the authorities will jsut let you go on using the same non-functioning passport. best case scenario is theyd force you to replace it asap, worst case is youd be a suspected terrorist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 call me crazy, but this is the first time I've ever heard of rfid chips. Outside of America, American passports are a very big commodity indeed. People will pay over $5000 or more for a stolen or lost passport. People up to no good, of course. Where is the rfid exactly located on a passport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 ah, ok, I assume it's the slightly bumpy barcode looking strip on the back page. That's scary, because in some countries they take your passport from you and only give it back when your leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WORDISM45 Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 in australia we already have them its jsut a thick page of the passport in the middle that you can scan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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