MainEvent Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 yesterday i had a pretty indepth conversation about graffiti with my sister and it got me thinking. she asked me to try to explain graffiti more to her and why i'm interested in it. it was really refreshing hearing questions and attempts at analysis from someone outside of graffiti culture, and it made me look deeper at graffiti itself, like why we do it and what we are actually doing. just wanna talk about some shit, and get some feedback if possible. but my sister asked me what was the purpose of tagging and bombing, and i explained the best way i could. she started talking about what her initial perceptions were and how she thinks it idiotic but interesting at the same time. i started to elaborate more and talked about some issues and mixed feelings that i've started to get, the more i've gotten into graf. mostly i talked about the contradictions of respect and perceptions between people within the graffiti or hip hop culture and those who are not. like to get respect among the general public of graffiti writers, you need to put in illegal work, be up alot or be up with style (even though its pretty much all the same to people outside of graf). that makes sense because that is graffiti, but in the bigger picture, it truly is fucking shit up. like Bomb the Suburbs said, the more paint that gets racked from local hardware stores, the more the crime rates go up and the more throw ups and tags that need to be buffed, the more the city needs to pay and the more taxes go up. in the end, we are simply just making it more difficult for ourselves and the people around us in our communities to afford everything that we are contributing to. so bombing seems pretty masochistic when you look at the cause and effect of it. i'm not knocking throw ups themselves because some throwies are sexy as hell and can be just as cool and stylistic as pieces, but the act of bombing itself just seems to be stupid, especially if they are hitting mom and pop organizations or small businesses. but thats how guys like JA and Cope2 have become legends, through incurring millions of dollars in costs to the city and tax payers. but on the other hand, i know that no one wants to spend the time and work to paint a dope ass burner illegally when its just gonna get buffed the next day, opposed to painting multiple throwies and being up more. so theres alot of contradiction and strife with bombing for me. also, shit like acid tags and scratch bombing only add to the negative public opinion that people outside of the graffiti culture have. i fully understand that graffiti is a counterculture and has a fuck the system mantality, but there has to be some distinction between fucking with the system and fucking with average people. shit would be so much sicker if there were one burner for every 3 tags or throwies in the streets. public opinion about graf would change pretty rapidly and a ride in the car or walking down the street would be like a full spectrum art gallery everywhere, which would inspire more people to write graf and enhance the scene. instead of half ass shit simply to get our names up, we should be putting 5+ color pieces up. putting up shit thats thought provoking to people walking by and that will get them to think. painting things with more depth than simply our names or little slogans next to throwies. graffiti can be a vehicle for so much more than what we are utilizing it for, like your political and social ideas. i mean, portland is a small enough city where we could organize some shit and get creative. i don't expect portland to be the graffiti renaissance of the US but we should try to break out of the stagnent state of graf. personally, my main concern with graf is far from the general public's opinion of us, but i'd rather have respect and positive recognition from both the graffiti community and my local community then one or the other. i'm trying to say that i think we should look deeper into what graf really is, while in essence, saying to true it but also respecting its inevitable evolution. ya know what im saying? i love bombing and getting up, its fuckin addicting like no other. but i think we can do more with graf while respecting and practicing the foundation its built on. apologies if this is preachy at all. i dunno, just some shit i wanted to get down. any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Kint Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 there is no logical explanation for graffilthy..it is a selfish and dangerous drug .. or as the older brother of the homie i started painting with said " graffiti is something for little kids in tunnels" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misk-TheDragon Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I like little kids in tunnels...and I don't think I'm alone on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrat. Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 You bring up good points..I rarely get into questioning why it is I do what I do. Really though its human nature to want to leave a mark that we were here..sort of like when a dog pisses on a fire hydrant. Its just second nature at this point and I do it because I like it(that goes for pissing on fire hydrants too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Issac Brock Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I think the most appealing thing is having other people see your art, along with the rush of risking your ass to do it. No matter what people say, they do graffiti because its public expression. Other people are going to see your shit, its like people wanting to be famous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunt double Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 i just like writing on shit. i dunno, ive tried explaining it to other people before. i don't remember who said it but "if you don't get it, you arent supposed to" sums it up pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRUM Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 It definitely feels instinctual to me. Even when I was young kid I used to write all over my house with crayons. Also getting in trouble for drawing on walls at school. I would have to spend a lot of time walking around my school with an eraser cleaning up all pencil drawings haha. And it's not like your doing it to impress other kids, it's completely personal. On a completely unrelated subject, why is it that every time I look at my TV there is a Girls Gone Wild infomercial in full effect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iLoveRamen Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 really why some folks "fear" it in a sense, is because they know nothing about it. knowledge dispels confusion. if you want to get your local community to respect the artform then you can't just be talkin about "destruction", cus that just fits into that mentally that writing is nothing but vandalism. if you wanna justify what you do NOW, then learn the history from BEFORE and where this "tagging and bombing" shit comes from in the first place. keep gettin that knowledge up, ask and investigate. then start thinking for yourself and come up with your own personal ideas of why it is YOU write, cus everyone has their own personal view and take on it. Some wanna go along with how the media negatively portrays writers and be up on that "YEAH THIS IS VANDALISM! YUP, I DONT GIVE A FUCK!" mentallity, and hey some take a more indepth personal and individual approach and stand to it. but yeah, not everyone is going to respect writing. not every writer is going to respect certain types of properties. the world isn't going to stop just because some building got written on. what it really comes down to is you as an individual and not everybody else. if you want the folks in your community to have an apprectiation for what it is you do, then you definately have to know what it is you're doing in the first place. other than that, not everyones going to agree with you on certain things, but that's ok at least you can exchange views, argue your points, and at the end still have respect with one another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MainEvent Posted February 23, 2007 Author Share Posted February 23, 2007 thanks for the reply man. i guess it boils down to the fact that kids write for different reasons, some wanna etch tag bus windows and some wanna spend 8+ hours doing a big ass mural. the point you raised about respect through knowledge would be cool to have a community graffiti block party or some shit like that to get younger kids into it and stuff like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iLoveRamen Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 some may have some common lilly bullcrap reason for why they write that could be the same as any other john, jack, and jill writers out there, you know? like some shallow ass reason, and then some could have some real deep knowledge, conviction, and their own personal approach towards it. whatever it may be, the fundamentals of writing( hitting and bombing ), is pretty much always going to be there. so you could have some kid who may be doing etch tags one day and then the next day be spendin hours, even a few days to do some whole wall illegal production at some yard. to put it more directly to answer, if you want respect and recognition from both the writing community and your local community -- common sense, you should be up, have style n skill, and most importantly know what the history is and where the artform comes from, your place within the culture as far as where you stand on certain aspects, and political and or moral reasonings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OH_NO Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 graffiti to me is alot of things, a disstorted view of fame, a large community where one can be either accepted by one group, or hated by another, a hobbie where one always has a goal to reach, and a rush on top of all of that. graffiti is a huge scene. and lots of people do it. but very few people share opinions on it. it all comes down to personal opinion. when you write your name or word or whatever you wanna call it, on that bathroom door at the local gass station then every person who goes in that door then see's that word on they're way out. everytime you hit a freeway shot then every passenger and some drivers who are looking that way see it. everything you do, little handstyles to huge mural peices is seen by some one. and then every person who see's these things now knows that you are out there, they have seen that word. that person "knows that writer" but do they really know the person who writes that word? why is it that we are willing to risk jail to have someone know our "word" yet never know who it is. do we really recieve the fame? or does our word just always live as just a word. (just some things to ponder) in graffiti a big playing part is crew and the people you roll with. and like in all things with crews and seperation comes fighting. crews are always beefing, most of the time its because two guys from two different places didnt like each other so then both crews were called. one might call this a war, in graff most the time a war is never won. it will be fought until one or another gives up. what is it that makes us do this? what if graffiti was just a community. one big crew (that prob sounds lame) then the community would have less things to frown at us about. a person walking down the street see's a tag on a fence. there opinion may differ but he just continues walking. the next week he walks by that same fence and the entire fence is covered in crossed out tags. now the chances of this person looking at this fence and saying that he/she somewhat liked the way it looked is much higher when it was just one ledgible tag. in the end i think that its odd that so many people are joining graff, kids esspecially when you have such a high chance of being hated as a writer from the day you start. graff could be a very big movement with a very big message if we all werent so busy trying to go over someone else's shit. more to come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MainEvent Posted February 27, 2007 Author Share Posted February 27, 2007 in graffiti a big playing part is crew and the people you roll with. and like in all things with crews and seperation comes fighting. crews are always beefing, most of the time its because two guys from two different places didnt like each other so then both crews were called. one might call this a war, in graff most the time a war is never won. it will be fought until one or another gives up. what is it that makes us do this? what if graffiti was just a community. one big crew (that prob sounds lame) then the community would have less things to frown at us about. a person walking down the street see's a tag on a fence. there opinion may differ but he just continues walking. the next week he walks by that same fence and the entire fence is covered in crossed out tags. now the chances of this person looking at this fence and saying that he/she somewhat liked the way it looked is much higher when it was just one ledgible tag. in the end i think that its odd that so many people are joining graff, kids esspecially when you have such a high chance of being hated as a writer from the day you start. graff could be a very big movement with a very big message if we all werent so busy trying to go over someone else's shit. i like this alot. just starting out and being a toy, i have alot of aspirations of what i want to do for my city up here like organizing jams, getting more kids involved, maybe do a documentary a year or two down the road, and do some of the shit i talked about in my initial post. i hear what you're saying about not going over other kids shit, but to me, i'd only go over other kids to weed out the bullshit. if the tag or throwie or piece is really that ugly and shitty, i wouldn't have a second thought about capping it or going over it. when i posted some wack shit from a couple months back, i got a verbal ass kicking and it motivated me to elevate and improve. if they quit because their stuff keeps getting capped, then they dont really have the determination and thats one less wack dude on the streets putting out ugly work. shit could backfire and they could just paint their disgusting handstyle and throw up all over my work, but ya know, i'm hoping they would just set up their game and elevate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OH_NO Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 (yeah word to main event) back to graff in graffiti a writer always has somewhere to improve to become a better graff artist. wether it be getting up, working on style, getting characters down, ect. it could be anything. most writers will sketch stuff out on paper to see if they like it before it goes on a wall. sketching is something that can be used to get better at all the things i mentioned before. in a hobby like graffiti where a writer only goes out to paint in the middle of the night and only on select nights. that means that you in all of your free time a person can be sketching. the more you sketch the more you progress. sketching and making sure to paint on a regular basis are both very important in graff. you work on your style and your can control. wee thats all i got kids... stay up f00ls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOLA Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Why do people speed? Why do people have hobbies? Why do people play sports? The answer to why you write is whatever your answer is... not every person is going to have even the closest answer to the next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spectr Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I almost read all of the posts.. but decided against it... 1. get off it... who gives a fuck... no really gives a fuck about you... stop jocking the scene... stop giving a fuck about what everyone else is doing... stop starting silly beefs cause you think someone is a toy cause there not as good as you... get your fucking ego in check kids.. get off your own nuts, and get off the nuts of your fucking graffiti hero's... 2. Uhm hey.. get off the bandwagon.. no really... get the fuck off the bandwagon... while its nice that you can copy some letter styles, and some fill ideas... it doesn't make you cool... actually it just makes you look like a fucking fool to tell the truth... No really think about why you do this for a second.... oh yeah most of you need to go reread that first one right now... ok thats what I thought... 3. Hey I do this cause I like it... yeah its a part of me.. I couldn't imagine myself doing not doing graffiti.. I actually don't think I could stop.. trust me i've tried before... you do it cause you think it makes you look cool.. i'm sorry to have to be the one to break it to you... its kids like you who are actually toys... I know kids who have been writing for years and still don't have "fresh" styles... while it might be nice for you to copy shit and krush shit for a couple years... you ain't dedicated... you ain't really down... you just a jocker who wishes he could be a part of this... enjoy your 10 minutes of fame cause the rest of us don't really give a fuck about you... while the real kids you clown on are doing there thing... 4. just cause it doesn't say something doesn't mean its not graffiti... I have met quite a few of you over the years who are stuck on this whole concept that you gotta write a word.. you gotta have your letters down.. you gotta have style... hey its fucking graffiti.. I will fucking throw some paint on a wall just as quick as I will bust a tag.. who gives a fuck... either way its the same thing... oh I forgot you all trying to be artists... artists who are living off the innovations of those who did this before you... stop thinking in terms of black and white.. really, just try it for a fucking second... yeah... i know... amazing isn't it... graffiti isn't just writing your name over and over on a wall... its more then that.. wow I know fucking amazing... Now I'm not saying there is anything wrong with writing your name over and over on a wall, actually its one of my favorite things to do.. all I am saying is there is more to it then that... 5. Please stop hiding behind the fact that you are a artist.... see above posts for why most of you aren't actually artists.. and if you can't figure it out, keep reading until you do... for those of you who might actually fall under this category well enjoy... 6. please, i am begging you... stop calling your art shows graffiti... how the fuck is a completely legal art show where you sell your work graffiti... please someone explain this to me... though there are actually exceptions to this rule.. but for 99% of you I have to say that your art show is not graffiti... 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earl broclo ESQ Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 i've only read half the posts on here, but will read more when i'm not at work. i'm glad this discussion is going on. i would like to add my two cents, based on what i read. in the first post, you (main event) said: "instead of half ass shit simply to get our names up, we should be putting 5+ color pieces up." it would be nice if people bombed with multiple layers, intense 3d, and full burner characters. unfortunately though, you know as well as i do, you don't have that time to sit and play with all the time. i'd love to see people piecing on the highway, opposed to one liner bombs, but that would be impossible. it's rare you see full color burners in hot public areas. most of the time, those pieces are done by multiple heads. if you look at the german/dutch train scene, those fucking kids are killing it. they are bum rushing transit trains and doing whole cars while stopped at the deck. it's impressive, but it's not something so easily done by one or two heads. sidenote: i've always loved outlines on highways, i hope that never dies. when it comes to graffiti culture, there is always going to be multiple layers of ethics and morals. you're always going to have the serious vandals. the seek and destroy aspect of graffiti is a hard foundation to break free from. the public is always going to see all types of graff in that light --because all in all, no matter what it is, if it ain't legal it's vandalism. when NYC trains were getting filled both ins and outs --the only people who really cared for it, were mostly the writers. to everyone else, it was an eye sore. so in a sense, graffiti really is based on internal respect within the culture. of course now, 30 years after the first real boom --there is a whole new respect. thanks to the media, graff and public art is more respected. people do appreciate it more now, but it still isn't loved by the majority. the negative side to that, the media has also created an image of "what a graff writer is supposed to be like." in turn creating way too many identity crisis for beginners. the whole hip hop thug gangsta appeal of graffiti dripped into the suburbs, and now you have kids growing up with apple pie and nintendo, acting like they were all city in 83'. graff isn't about being a thug, or being a gangsta --that's the enviornment you come from, not the culture we love within the artform. i want to keep going with this, but i'm on the 9-5 gig, and my boss will fry my balls if i stay on here too long. i would like to finish this one post with this: graffiti is (in my eyes) the most real form of art this world has ever seen. today's artworld is littered with hack jobs who do half ass prententious work. the gallery circuit is nothing but ego rubbing prententious frauds. people do work to get mental handjobs from others, face to face. for me, graffiti is far from that. the small amount of people who know who's doing what, is nothing in comparrison to some art fag doing brush stroke texture paintings and hob knobbing with other art fags at coffee shops. they do work to get it into a gallery, to sell that work, to make money --and then they walk around acting like a "struggling artist" like it's some kind of badge of honor. fuck that shit. graffiti is all about getting out there, with few people knowing who you really are, instead, only the name you write. there is a huge ego strain in graffiti, but it's within the culture and always has been. writers are making the streets their galleries, without permission, without an invite, and without a price tag. they are truely doing it for themselves and those they know, or those who are in the know. to me, that is more genuine than some coffee shop, courderoy jacket wearing, Satre quoting, french film loving, "i'm too cool for school" art fag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtFlick Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 i just found this amusing... Psychoanalytically, graffiti is described as stemming from one phase during infancy in which an infant, curious about the physical nature and appearance of its own stool, plays with it by smearing it on the nearest surface. Failure to satisfy this curiosity in some infants is what causes some adults or adolescents later to play at writing graffiti, and thus to confront later in life the public censure that some infants received from their parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earl broclo ESQ Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 nice, we're all a bunch of shit slingers at heart. that would explain all the beef that goes on as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MainEvent Posted March 1, 2007 Author Share Posted March 1, 2007 thats kinda fucked up. that'd be cool to see a scientific analyst of common psychological and genetic traits and other predispositions of writers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beantownbeatz Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 the only people who know about graffiti are graffiti artists...and cops. Other than that its an annoyance to the public. I like to keep my shit where only other writers will see it i mean buses alleyways and rooftops bridges and abandoned factories are all shit holes without graffiti. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iLoveRamen Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 word up to spectr. if you're ever going to put out an artshow.. you had better fuckin know history, paid dues, and get your facts straight before you go tryin to school kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Clothesoff Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 u guys really do graffiti? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earl broclo ESQ Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 u guys really do graffiti? i mostly do stickers and wheat pastes, but i do paint from time to time --definitely not enough to call myself a "graffiti artist." i have been following graff for over 15 years though. this thread was "thoughts on graffiti," so i figured i'd say some shit that i was thinking. so i'll admit whatever, i'm not here to prove anything or bullshit you either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iLoveRamen Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 u guys really do graffiti? no officer. how come you keep asking this question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high dri Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 i just wanted to say I fucking love recruiting peeps. Getting people into this shit, it's like taking a virgin man. Or getting people trashed for their first, to smoke weed for their first, whatever. Everyone started out as a toy we know, think though its interesting how they started though. the very beginning, and if you recruit, your part of their life now. LETS GO DESTROY SOME SHIT. AHAHAHHA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango 24 Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 no officer. how come you keep asking this question? because im pretty sure tpix hangs around in ch. 0 alot, where the majority are retired/ semi-retired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earl broclo ESQ Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 i just wanted to say I fucking love recruiting peeps. Getting people into this shit, it's like taking a virgin man. Or getting people trashed for their first, to smoke weed for their first, whatever. Everyone started out as a toy we know, think though its interesting how they started though. the very beginning, and if you recruit, your part of their life now. LETS GO DESTROY SOME SHIT. AHAHAHHA. as one person, i will say i'm glad to hear someone has this kind of energy and enthusiasm. i personally think graff is about the people around you, and not the whole image thing, or what not. skill is how you get your rep, but until you reach that level --you are what you are. i will whole heartedly admit that i am a chump when it comes to painting with cans. that doesn't mean i don't love graff. like i said, i've been following this shit for years. the art form influenced me as a teen, and i've been in love with it ever since. there is too much negativity in graff, and too much bullshit ego to go around. to hear someone say they love showing virgins how to pop a cherry --FUCKING KUDOS TO YOU MAN. keep doing what you're doing. graff needs more positive energy, and less bullshit ego talking about who's biting who. i love seeing other people working off influence, and i love seeing people doing shit for themselves, no matter what style they represent. i'm drunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerosolKid Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 Trying to explain why we do what we do is senseless...because there is no explanation. We try it one day, we like it, and we get addicted to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercer Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 There are two forms of graffiti that are both an art onto themselves. The first form is the more accepted art style of it. The general public can accept it more. To me its like the pure study of line and color and the best art movement ever. The second form is the simple art of getting your name everywhere. The general public hates this form. Getting your name up everywhere is an art form. Putting in all that work, rackin all those cans and never being caught is much harder to do than painting a masterpiece. While the artistic style may be more acceptable, the simple fact is paint on a subway, freight or wall wont hurt the object in any way at all. It only confirms that people have different tastes. The vast majority of people to me are sleepwalkers, caught up in what car they drive or how much money they make. Slaves to their possessions and their employers who waste their meaningless lives. Most people would prefer to see a billboard that lies about insurance savings. To them I say nothing and just do my thing, its a art they will never accept or appreciate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bojangles Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 It's got a good beat and I can dance to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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