dundermifflin Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 so my friend got busted walking down the street carrying paint. they didnt do the "we recieved a call thing" but insted they asked whats in the bag, and when asked for probably cuase or why he was stopped the reply was "i dont need a reason im a fucking cop." is the only way out of this to counter sue or go through a huge legal hassle since they wrongly searched his bag. this also happen to several people comming to and from permission walls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothbrushexpert Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 so my friend got busted walking down the street carrying paint. they didnt do the "we recieved a call thing" but insted they asked whats in the bag, and when asked for probably cuase or why he was stopped the reply was "i dont need a reason im a fucking cop." is the only way out of this to counter sue or go through a huge legal hassle since they wrongly searched his bag. this also happen to several people comming to and from permission walls. 1; Tell your friend to tell his lawyer that he was illegally searched and leave it to the law-talking-guy to blow the case out of court. a) I had a buddy have a cop leap out of the shadows at him so he fucking RAAAAAANNN! Well, the short story is that the cop tackles him shortly thereafter and arrests him BUT my buddy got off with a slap-on-the-wrist by pointing out to his lawyer that the cop never identified himself. WHAT? That's right, the cop could have been ANYBODY lunging from the shadows, so it was plead down to something inconsequential and my bud served one day at a soup kitchen! 2; Paint isn't a crime, if it was; the police would be parked outside home-depot and be bagging arrests all day long. If the cop can't connect you to a crime, then it isn't a crime! Evidence isn't evidence until it's attached to an illegal activity, you know? A blood-soaked shirt is only the result of a nosebleed until they find the body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acephale Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 Yeah, run only if you know you can get away, or at least if you have the determination to run like you've never run before. Because the situation WILL much worse when the cop catches you after chasing you down. Once you are caught, you're better off not saying anything at all, period. No statement means all they can do is charge you with 'what happened', and if you were smart (not carrying around anything but essentials, meaning just your paint), it wont be much of anything compared to what it could be. Then again you could be TOYERONER LKU TYH of bumfuck new jersey and be out there with your hoodie, backpack, freshly purchased montana paint, markers, ink, digital camera with flicks, stickers... No officer I just keep these for art! Also, I'd reccomend if you hit a spot and are basically out of paint, ditch it ASAP. It seems a high percentage of writers getting caught happens 'after the fact'-it is not so common for regular cops to actually seeing you do it. I say this because if the cop stops you and searches you and you don't have anything linking you to graff, they may just let you go. If they do find paint, and they see fresh paint on a wall, they may not be able to charge you with that but they sure as hell will charge you with what they can, some bullshit in the form of 'loitering'/'trespassing'/'prowling'... Ditching your paint and related materials weakens your connection to the crime, like an assasin ditching his weapon after the deed is done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dundermifflin Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 1; Tell your friend to tell his lawyer that he was illegally searched and leave it to the law-talking-guy to blow the case out of court. a) I had a buddy have a cop leap out of the shadows at him so he fucking RAAAAAANNN! Well, the short story is that the cop tackles him shortly thereafter and arrests him BUT my buddy got off with a slap-on-the-wrist by pointing out to his lawyer that the cop never identified himself. WHAT? That's right, the cop could have been ANYBODY lunging from the shadows, so it was plead down to something inconsequential and my bud served one day at a soup kitchen! 2; Paint isn't a crime, if it was; the police would be parked outside home-depot and be bagging arrests all day long. If the cop can't connect you to a crime, then it isn't a crime! Evidence isn't evidence until it's attached to an illegal activity, you know? A blood-soaked shirt is only the result of a nosebleed until they find the body. the laws in chicago are fuzzy, as to possession of paint, i know the sale of paint is banned within city limits but does that mean possession is a crime also? the sale of paint is only applicable to people over the age of 21 in the city, is that the age limit to carry paint? while in the suburbs the age limit is 18. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genome Posted January 16, 2007 Author Share Posted January 16, 2007 Paint isn't a crime, if it was; the police would be parked outside home-depot and be bagging arrests all day long. If the cop can't connect you to a crime, then it isn't a crime! Evidence isn't evidence until it's attached to an illegal activity, you know? A blood-soaked shirt is only the result of a nosebleed until they find the body. Unfortunately, this isn't true everywhere in the states anymore. In some cities, having paint gives the cops the right to decide for themselves whether you earn "Graffiti Punk" status. In Chicago, Denver, and a few other cities across the U.S., it is now all police discretion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothbrushexpert Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 Unfortunately, this isn't true everywhere in the states anymore. In some cities, having paint gives the cops the right to decide for themselves whether you earn "Graffiti Punk" status. In Chicago, Denver, and a few other cities across the U.S., it is now all police discretion. I did not know that. The only good news then is that cops, luckily, can only arrest you, they do not decide your fate. If you were smart enough to take Genome's advice and hook up with a lawyer, it's totally conceivable that, if there is no "crime," to attach you to that you'll get illegal possetion of paint, or whatever they call it, thrown out. Unless you've been busted 3 times before that. In which case, maybe you should hang it up or consider running with a less conspicuous crew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 i would really be amused to know who you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genome Posted January 16, 2007 Author Share Posted January 16, 2007 I did not know that. The only good news then is that cops, luckily, can only arrest you, they do not decide your fate. If you were smart enough to take Genome's advice and hook up with a lawyer, it's totally conceivable that, if there is no "crime," to attach you to that you'll get illegal possetion of paint, or whatever they call it, thrown out. Unless you've been busted 3 times before that. In which case, maybe you should hang it up or consider running with a less conspicuous crew. The offense is usually called "Possession of Graffiti Implements/Instruments" in most locations. And, yeah, you're right. In truth, once you've been busted successfully, and have a permanent record, it's going to be a lot harder to get away from a police encounter without being screwed. Still, remember to protect your search rights, and you should be able to prevent Probable Cause in many situations. And for some of the long-term members of the Graffiti community, being busted three times is just peanuts. Like I said in an earlier post - if you maintain this lifestyle long enough, your chances of eventually being apprehended increase into the near-100% range. -Genome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothbrushexpert Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 i would really be amused to know who you are. I believe that! We could play 20 questions sometime. The offense is usually called "Possession of Graffiti Implements/Instruments" in most locations. And, yeah, you're right. In truth, once you've been busted successfully, and have a permanent record, it's going to be a lot harder to get away from a police encounter without being screwed. Still, remember to protect your search rights, and you should be able to prevent Probable Cause in many situations. And for some of the long-term members of the Graffiti community, being busted three times is just peanuts. Like I said in an earlier post - if you maintain this lifestyle long enough, your chances of eventually being apprehended increase into the near-100% range. -Genome Woah woah woah. Nobody told me the cops will seriously bust me just for writing on walls! Fuck this, i'm out. Dude, you're totally right. I was being sort of flippant about being busted 3 times. Not that this is necessarily the thread for this; but getting busted is sort of a necessity. It weeds out the dudes that can't take the heat, it makes you smarter, (or at least more paranoid) and it gives you a story to tell. It still sucks though, and that's where this thread is really useful. It's the coolest feeling in the world to walk away from a police encounter without getting arrested, it sort of makes me feel like Robin Hood, only not gay. Back to the thread topic: Something i thought of on the train last night; a little courtesy goes a long way with the cops, or rather; a lack of courtesy will get you in more trouble than it's worth. Even if a cop doesn't have the right to stop or search you, ANY resistance on your part will give him enough to bust you on resisting arrest-assaulting an officer. Assault is just the threat of violence, so it could simply be you saying "fuck off," and giving a defiant look; and resistance can be as simple as pulling away from an officer. On the other hand, being polite and confident in your rights can diffuse an police encounter, or at least give your lawyer more to work with for a plea-bargain or even getting it thrown out. Lawyer up! Do it now! It's fun, AND easy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genome Posted January 22, 2007 Author Share Posted January 22, 2007 It's the coolest feeling in the world to walk away from a police encounter without getting arrested, it sort of makes me feel like Robin Hood, only not gay. No way, dude. I would ABSOLUTELY wear green tights when I paint, if it wasn't so damned conspicuous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cre8tiv Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 Great post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dame. Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 I give my first post to you. excellent advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genome Posted February 6, 2007 Author Share Posted February 6, 2007 I give my first post to you. excellent advice. Thank you, I really appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRUM Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 That "Am I being arrested?" line works wonders. Yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genome Posted February 8, 2007 Author Share Posted February 8, 2007 That "Am I being arrested?" line works wonders. Yeah. Well, if you say it that way, it's not as helpful. Like I said, I recommend "Am I being placed under arrest at this time, or am I free to go?" Also, since I've been getting requests from a lot of forum members for information about UK stop and search rights, but don't know jack about the UK personally, I am posting this link, HERE, which concerns UK search procedures and rights. Hope it answers everybody's questions. And here is some VIDEO LINK that one of the forum members sent me. Fairly helpful, if, of course, you can get past the cheesy, stereotypical "American Teenagers" acting. -Genome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genome Posted February 17, 2007 Author Share Posted February 17, 2007 INCOMING BEEF Okay, as you guys know, I pretty much maintain my legal advice on this thread only, so I'm going to use it to address a statement that has been coming up a lot on other threads in this forum. And I quote: "Always run! Fuck getting arrested." Okay, we're going to take this one step at a time... Typical Vandalism charges: Class B Misdemeanor Possession of Graffiti Implements: Class C Misdemeanor Criminal Mischief in the 2nd degree: Class A Misdemeanor Attempt to Evade Officer of the Peace in the 2nd: Class D FELONY Attempt to Evade Officer of the Peace in the 1st: Class C FELONY So, there you go. Proof number one that you are idiots. You run, you get seven or eight cops after you instead of one. You run and they throw the book at you. You run and you are quite probably going to get caught. It's these guys' jobs to catch people like you when they run. They are very good at it, and they have a bunch of squad cars while you have nothing but your legs and a bag of paint slowing you down. Secondly, you get busted, and you get hit with the Class D or Class C Felony, PLUS the charges for whatever they hit you with on your original crimes. And no matter what the law claims, in a court in the United States, running is an admission of guilt. So now you are caught, guilty of a felony and three or four misdemeanor counts instead of just the misdemeanor, the cops are pissed at you, and you don't get the satisfaction of pissing all over John Q. Law. Whereas, if you would just listen to the advice of the people that have been doing this for a decade or two who keep saying the trick is to minimize your chances of getting caught, and behave in a rational manner during police encounters, you would have a single misdemeanor count that could probably be plead down to community service or dismissed completely. If you want to be a moron, by all means go ahead, fewer bad artists bumping around on my walls and busting my pieces. It's like I've said I don't know how many times before - know how to be invisible, know when to run, know what's what, and know when to hold your ground and stand on your rights. No course of action is always right. You want to be a king, you have to get past the law every night, in every district. You need to be up everywhere. If you're a runner, they are looking for you - and it's time to find a new handle. Nobody wants to lose five years worth of built-up reputation over some grind with the Vandalism Squad. So try thinking for once, and for FUCK'S SAKE, stop telling all the new and aspiring Graff artists that come on these forums to permanently fuck their criminal records just so your dumb ass can sound like a smartass. I like the Toys - I was one myself once. And I like to see them be able to progress instead of being hounded by the Vandalism Squad for the rest of their lives. This is a graffiti resource section - you want to yank yourself off, do it in Channel Zero or something. People come here for information - well thought out, well presented information. Don't be a fucktard. BEEF COMPLETE On a side note, I've been writing for 13 years now, and haven't had a single Felony to my name since before I was 16 - and that was for stealing a car, not vandalism. At 18 my record got expunged, and I haven't gotten a single Vandalism charge against me since then, and I've had plenty of run-ins with the law. Someday you guys might get a little older, like me, and want to also have a real job - I couldn't have gotten the job with the design firm that work at, were I to have applied with a listed felony on my criminal record. There's a perfectly good reason why I post this info for you young pups, and it isn't because I want the kudos. Graffiti kids can be really smart, talented people. And the field of art and design needs good, smart, talented people. I got my start on the streets, and now the streets are where I go to get back to basics. But if you play it smart Graffiti can turn into a life for you off the streets, just like it has for me and thousands of others. I know that when I was younger this wasn't much of a temptation, but we all grow up eventually. In the meantime just play it smart, okay, guys? -Genome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OH. Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 get magnets for the bottom of your cans too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genome Posted February 19, 2007 Author Share Posted February 19, 2007 Depends on the cans - certain cans that works, certain cans it doesn't. See elsewhere in the forums for more information - I know there was a thread on this three or four months ago in the Yard somewhere. Search for "silencing cans" or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_igma Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 yeah doesnt belton have glass mixing balls instead of metal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genome Posted February 22, 2007 Author Share Posted February 22, 2007 Getting a little off thread topic here - like I said, search the forum archives first, as per the forum rules. This is a legal advice thread. P.S.: Yes, most cans today use plastic or glass mixing balls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MainEvent Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 very well done thread. thanks genome, appreciate this alot. i have a couple quick questions. does your record get wiped clean when you turn 18 and how much of a fine are they gonna smack you with for your first offense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothbrushexpert Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Genome, you're providing an excellent service for everyone by maintaining this thread. It's got oodles of valuable info for the toy, I meannnnn, NEW kids, around here. It’s also really useful for other facets of life, not just getting busted for vandalism. Thanks a lot for taking the time to write it up, it’s probably under appreciated by most of the fuckers around here, but it’s appreciated by me at least. As far as getting away from the police: Watching Cops you really feel like you can out-sprint any of them easy, often the chase ends with the fat ass officer gasping for air. Maybe you can outrun that guy, or even his partner, but what about the other few squad cars they have parked around the corner just waiting for your ignorant self to run into their trap? Cops arrest people - that's their job. They even have to make a certain amount of arrests a month, depending on which unit they work for. They're pretty good at talking you into admitting guilt enough to put cuffs on you, but they're usually VERY good at actually physically catching you if you try to run. "A friend of mine," was being questioned by the police - "he," managed to talk his way out of it - and when "he," started walking home (in the most paranoid roundabout way possible) there were 2 squad cars parked around the corner! Assuming it was the same in the other direction, that's a total of 5 squad cars, and potentially 10 officers. 10 officers for one dude! Now i'm not saying that's the norm, or even that it's impossible for you to get away. All i'm saying is that it's the police's job to make that as tough as they possibly can for you to escape, and they can make it really, really tough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Damn! Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 First of all I gotta say hats off to this thread and all the great information provided. Genome, thank's for giving your time to type that up and school all us youngsters. I was just wondering if you can elaborate more on the "typical vandalism charges" part. What constitutes typical? Does it depend on what exactly you're doing (quick tag, throwup, piece)? What is the whole "class A,B,C" thing? Who decides how much damage you actually did? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_igma Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 the court system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MainEvent Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 i was out the other nite and someone called the cops on me. if i walk away from the scene and the cops stop me later down the street, is the witness's report probable cause for a search? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal.method Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I just recieved criminal mischeif in the first degree and loitering. All the rest were dropped. Now i have a court date coming up. What should I do to get that criminal in the 1st dropped to vandalism or something. cause i just got it this last week and havent even told my pops or called a lawyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_igma Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 tell the pops and call a lawyer you DO NOT want a court appointed attorney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal.method Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 ok, I hear both sides. some say court appointed lawyers are shit. some say you can get a good one. Whats the deal, what do you all think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_igma Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 well if your lucky you can get a good one but you shouldnt go by luck you should go by the family lawyer imo and also you shouldnt discuss your cases on 12oz thats not incredibly intelligent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal.method Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 While I understand. I havent given any details that can specify my case vs one of thousands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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