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Welcome to the Fourth Reich

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that's the thing, legal speak is pretty dense.

i use context clues alot of the time. some of it

i do have to look up.

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"he Bosnia air raids did not violate the constitution, that is what I meant by "mandated". Denying citizens of due process violates the constitution."

 

bullshit.

 

the federal government cannot attack anything unless they declare war. the president has no power to decide when or where to attack something. the only leeway is if WE ARE ATTACKED, the president can call troops until a war declaration is passed. so, clintons bombings were just as unconstitutional as bush's iraq war.

 

saying that the clinton appointed justice department, the FBI, BATF all under control of the president, that attacked civilians in waco texas, has nothing to do with clinton, is absolutefuckingly retarded. that is like saying 'well, bush wasnt behind the military commission act of 06, he just happened to be presiding president when it passed.' sorry, that doesnt cut the mustard.

 

bill clinton waged war on his own citizens.

 

trying to determine which president, bush or clinton, was worse, is like trying to determine which dictator was worse... stalin or hitler.

the tradeoffs just arent there. the government was smaller under clinton than bush. but clinton was raiding the montana freemen and burning citizens alive. both were waging unconstitutional wars. both were destroying civil liberty. and most on here think that economic liberty is somehow different than civil liberty.

its like choosing between dumb and dumber.

 

 

 

Problem with you is that you're a blowhard.

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indeed crossfire worthy. I dont agree with this law however there are so many extreme variables that have been put forth supporting this law. "

 

If there is a bomb that is going off in one hour somewhere in the US and we have someone in custody who may know where it is. You dont think we should be able to do WHATEVER IT TAKES to get this person to tell us where it is?"

 

Scare tatics are gay...

 

Why would you take the most extreme situation (the bomb going off in one hour) and apply it to everything else? Don't you think prior to this act police and fbi would torture someone to stop a bomb? Pretty sure they won't care about the law.

 

The government is just using terrorism to scare americans into giving up our rights, and it is working.

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this IS NOT an episode of "24"!

i repeat, this is REAL LIFE!

not an episode of "24".

 

there is no jack bauer.

there are no supporting actors/actresses.

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this IS NOT an episode of "24"!

i repeat, this is REAL LIFE!

not an episode of "24".

 

there is no jack bauer.

there are no supporting actors/actresses.

 

if this isnt the pot calling the kettle black

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if this isnt the pot calling the kettle black

 

 

care to explain what you mean by that?

 

i'll eplxain what i mean by saying that this isn't a television show.

the pentagon admitted it funds the show "24" to "inject" propaganda into

americans. the show is obviously pro-torture, pro "whatever it takes" attitude,

etc. i am simply saying that america is not a television show. this is real life

and waterboarding, snatching people 9innocent people) off of the streets

of america is WRONG.

 

this country was built on principles that work. they are being robbed from us

while we play with our ipods, watch "24", care about paris hiltons giant black

penis, etc.

 

i don't think people realize the implications of such bills as HR 6166.

 

 

 

mamerro: still trying to make time to read through it again and find that specific

paragraph that refers to stripping americans of their citizenship in order to charge them

as non-citizen enemy combatants.

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what the shit? got osme evidence to support the pentagon funding 24

 

and what i meant by it was that a lot of the stuff you say has about as much factual background to a TV show (re 'conclusive proof' that tehre were explosives in the pentagon etc etc)

 

i think youre alright though casek so sont take my light hearted jab to heart

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never said there were explosives in the pentagon. that was hit by something. as i've stated,

i don't think it was a missile. i do think it's a honeypot, though.

 

"The New York Times reported that the Defense Department had paid the Rendon Group, a Washington-based international consulting firm, $100,000 per month to help the OSI with a broad campaign that would include "black" propaganda, or disinformation."

 

Evidence of Pentagon Psychological Warfare Operations Against U.S. Citizens Surfaces in Want Ads

http://page15.com/2004/07/evidence-of-pentagon-psychological.html

 

Pentagon chiefs condemned for launching propaganda war

 

By Ben Fenton in Washington

(Filed: 20/02/2002)

 

AMERICA'S western allies reacted with concern yesterday to the creation of a Pentagon department of propaganda aimed at planting disinformation in the media of America's friends as well as its enemies.

 

The Office of Strategic Influence has been set up to disseminate truthful information openly, but also to spread what one senior Pentagon official called "the blackest of black programmes".

 

The organisation, which is headed by a brigadier and has about 15 staff reporting directly to the under secretary of defence for policy, is already working on ways to influence and mislead the media in a number of countries, mostly in the Islamic world, but also in Western Europe.

advertisement

 

A Pentagon source, who asked not to be named, said there were some European nations that "sometimes needed to be helped to see the light". The existence of the OSI was revealed in the New York Times.

 

It was reportedly established to spread positive messages about the war on terrorism, but it would also use disinformation and misinformation to mislead friend and foe alike.

 

Reaction among America's allies was universally negative. One Western official said: "This sort of thing might work in countries with no sophisticated media network, but not in Europe or any other mature democracy."

 

A European diplomat said: "Everyone uses disinformation for military reasons, but I have never heard of using official sources to spread false information to the media of an ally."

 

Another diplomat said: "The Pentagon is not exactly regarded as the fount of truth and justice now, so I don't know what sort of damage to its reputation this might do if it leaked out.

 

"All I can see this sort of thing doing is giving a mighty good excuse to our enemies for dismissing all coalition claims as black propaganda."

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/02/20/wprop20.xml

 

 

 

 

 

there was a USA Today article that is no loner available admitting it, too.

 

 

i understand your lighthearted jabs were just that, but don't take what i say as just speculation. i have a feeling that within the next year or two, things are going to come out which will make the whole country, the whole world, see the light.

 

it's already happening.

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and i shall buy you a beer if any of the stuff you say turns out to be true (os i meant to say the twin towers not the pentagon)

 

back to the subject that article didnt say anything aobut the pentagon funding 24

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yeah, it was in the USA today and on Yahoo. unfortunately, both dump their cache after a period of time. it's not censoring, it's just space saving, cheap bastards.

 

anyhow, those have alot to do with it. Rendon is the corp that handled the deal by the pentagon for the show "24"

in fact, and get this, the deal was brokered right before the patriot act II was set to be debated/signed into law. turns out, that show dealt with the same issues that the republicrats were arguing "why the patriot act is good".

 

i'm not joking, yum. i wouldn't even try to make something up like that. as odd as it seems, the govt's of the world do still use plenty of propaganda on their citizens. what was that guys name? bernays? maybe the spelling is wrong.

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Just change a few names around:

 

Last call for alcohol.

Last call for your freedom of speech.

Drink up. Happy hour is now enforced by law.

Don't forget our house special, it's called a Trickie Dickie Screwdriver.

It's got one part Jack Daniels, two parts purple Kool-Aid,

and a jigger of formaldehyde

from the jar with Hitler's brain in it we got in the back storeroom.

Happy trails to you. Happy trails to you.

 

I am Emperor Ronald Reagan

Born again with fascist cravings

Still, you made me president

 

Human rights will soon go 'way

I am now your Shah today

Now I command all of you

Now you're going to pray in school

I'll make sure they're Christian too

 

California Uber alles

Uber alles California

 

Ku Klux Klan will control you

Still you think it's natural

Nigger knockin' for the master race

Still you wear the happy face

 

You closed your eyes, can't happen here

Alexander Haig is near

Vietnam won't come back you say

Join the army or you will pay

 

California Uber alles

Uber alles California

 

Yeah, that's it. Just relax.

Have another drink, few more pretzels, little more MSG.

Turn on those Dallas Cowboys on your TV.

Lock your doors. Close your mind.

It's time for the two-minute warning.

 

Welcome to 1984

Are you ready for the third world war?!?

You too will meet the secret police

They'll draft you and they'll jail your niece

 

You'll go quitely to boot camp

They'll shoot you dead, make you a man

Don't you worry, it's for a cause

Feeding global corporations' claws

 

Die on our brand new poison gas

El Salvador or Afghanistan

Making money for President Reagan

And all the friends of President Reagan

 

California Uber alles

Uber alles California

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Just change a few names around:

 

Last call for alcohol.

Last call for your freedom of speech.

Drink up. Happy hour is now enforced by law.

Don't forget our house special, it's called a Trickie Dickie Screwdriver.

It's got one part Jack Daniels, two parts purple Kool-Aid,

and a jigger of formaldehyde

from the jar with Hitler's brain in it we got in the back storeroom.

Happy trails to you. Happy trails to you.

 

I am Emperor Ronald Reagan

Born again with fascist cravings

Still, you made me president

 

Human rights will soon go 'way

I am now your Shah today

Now I command all of you

Now you're going to pray in school

I'll make sure they're Christian too

 

California Uber alles

Uber alles California

 

Ku Klux Klan will control you

Still you think it's natural

Nigger knockin' for the master race

Still you wear the happy face

 

You closed your eyes, can't happen here

Alexander Haig is near

Vietnam won't come back you say

Join the army or you will pay

 

California Uber alles

Uber alles California

 

Yeah, that's it. Just relax.

Have another drink, few more pretzels, little more MSG.

Turn on those Dallas Cowboys on your TV.

Lock your doors. Close your mind.

It's time for the two-minute warning.

 

Welcome to 1984

Are you ready for the third world war?!?

You too will meet the secret police

They'll draft you and they'll jail your niece

 

You'll go quitely to boot camp

They'll shoot you dead, make you a man

Don't you worry, it's for a cause

Feeding global corporations' claws

 

Die on our brand new poison gas

El Salvador or Afghanistan

Making money for President Reagan

And all the friends of President Reagan

 

California Uber alles

Uber alles California

 

Exactly!

Didn't the FBI threaten them and force them to dead that shit?

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http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/fs/2002/16181.htm

 

as far as being stripped of your citizenship, I think the supreme court has final say in that.

I don't think that the White House has that athority. I could be wrong, but it would be easier

to disapear somebody. " terrorists" are only shown to the public when it is politically convenient

to a politician. Case in point http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46640 did you see this story on any major news program?

 

 

why do you need the Secretary of Treasury to freeze someones assets? I thought could be done with a court order?

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http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Countdown-King-George.mov

olbermann "the day habeas corpus died"

 

Yeah, 'cause when I think "responsible reporting," I think OLBERMANN.

 

This whole argument - on both sides, by the way - is based in some claim that government is malevolent, which I personally don't subscribe to. It's just incompetent. George Bush is no better, or typically worse, than any other president that flexed the executive muscles. They were all in over their heads, running around without a clue as to what was going on, trying to keep up appearances of a well-run government. Yes, George Bush is a bad president. But seeing as we haven't had a good president since the 1880's, I don't really care much for that argument.

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what makes a good president? I can think of a couple of "good" qualities or at least border line

god acts the last 3 presidents prior to the dancing monkey who won the lucky sperm contest.

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" Yes, George Bush is a bad president. But seeing as we haven't had a good president since the 1880's, I don't really care much for that argument."

 

i agree.

if the 1880's president you are talking about is grover cleveland, you are my new best friend.

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