Welcome to the Fourth Reich

[Theo Huxtable.]

I never thought Clinton was a saint. I voted for him in 92, I didn't vote for him in 96. Clinton did almost as many bad things for America as Bush and Reagan did.

 

 

did you really vote for clinton in '92? that'd mean you're at least 32 years old

[lord_casek]

russell is an ollllllld man.

[Theo Huxtable.]

It aint even going to be terrorists that get hauled off and tortured. It's going to be disedents you dumb ass. American citizens that speak out against the government. Jesus Christ, get a clue.

 

Of course you'd have to stoop to personal insults, without keeping the argument on topic.

 

Did you forget about September 11th?

[russell jones]

russell is an ollllllld man.

 

It's true, I'm older than dirt.

[fermentor666]

What Clinton did in Kosovo should have been done long before that. Kosovo was a prime example of just how worthless U.N. troops are.

 

Clinton didn't have anything to do with Waco other than it occured during his administration, just a few months after he had been inaugerated. Clinton did not run the ATF. And there was also intense public pressure to have something done about the cult.

 

He didn't wage any wars. The occasional Iraq bombing was stupid, but not a war. Kosovo was not a war and it was necessary, there was a serious genocide going on over there and the rest of the world was literally sitting there watching trying to figure out what to do. Maybe it's not mandated under the constitution but fuck that extremist viewpoint.

 

Clinton did not torture or burn US citizens, you're out of your mind. The ONLY thing you could possibly be talking about would be Waco and he did not give the orders for it or pass the legislation for it. He might have had a paper on his desk for a minute along with 100 other things but it wasn't his agenda to legislate ways to get rid of David Koresh. The Branch-Dividians were fucking lunatics, anyways.

 

I don't know about the wire-tapping business, it might be true but since you screwed up a couple of other facts I wouldn't trust it from you.

 

As for his deregulating the media, that much is true and russell jones is also right about how you should absolutely love that. That is why libertarians are idiots at their core, because they open the door for Rupert Murdoch, Viacom, Disney, etc to come in and take over our country. And they sure as shit don't give a fuck about the constitution or even democracy. That's one count against Clinton.

 

But Clinton wasn't half as corrupt as Bush the IInd. And the Republifucks spent millions of dollars on subpeonas and inquiries on the most retarded shit like Lewinski, while with this president there has been nothing on the long list of what's been done. There's a Rolling Stone article this month that describes how it's not so much that the Democrats are worthless, it's about how Republican control of the house and senate for the last decade has enabled them to strip the Democrats of so much of their power and rights. It's not the best writing, but it's got the facts.

 

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/12055360/cover_story_time_to_go_inside_the_worst_congress_ever

 

The GOP's "take that, bitch" approach to governing has been taken to the greatest heights by the House Judiciary Committee. The committee is chaired by the legendary Republican monster James Sensenbrenner Jr., an ever-sweating, fat-fingered beast who wields his gavel in a way that makes you think he might have used one before in some other arena, perhaps to beat prostitutes to death. Last year, Sensenbrenner became apoplectic when Democrats who wanted to hold a hearing on the Patriot Act invoked a little-known rule that required him to let them have one.

 

"Naturally, he scheduled it for something like 9 a.m. on a Friday when Congress wasn't in session, hoping that no one would show," recalls a Democratic staffer who attended the hearing. "But we got a pretty good turnout anyway."

 

Sensenbrenner kept trying to gavel the hearing to a close, but Democrats again pointed to the rules, which said they had a certain amount of time to examine their witnesses. When they refused to stop the proceedings, the chairman did something unprecedented: He simply picked up his gavel and walked out.

 

"He was like a kid at the playground," the staffer says. And just in case anyone missed the point, Sensenbrenner shut off the lights and cut the microphones on his way out of the room.

 

For similarly petulant moves by a committee chair, one need look no further than the Ways and Means Committee, where Rep. Bill Thomas -- a pugnacious Californian with an enviable ego who was caught having an affair with a pharmaceutical lobbyist -- enjoys a reputation rivaling that of the rotund Sensenbrenner. The lowlight of his reign took place just before midnight on July 17th, 2003, when Thomas dumped a "substitute" pension bill on Democrats -- one that they had never read -- and informed them they would be voting on it the next morning. Infuriated, Democrats stalled by demanding that the bill be read out line by line while they recessed to a side room to confer. But Thomas wanted to move forward -- so he called the Capitol police to evict the Democrats.

 

In one legendary incident, Rep. Charles Rangel went searching for a secret conference being held by Thomas. When he found the room where Republicans closeted themselves, he knocked and knocked on the door, but no one answered. A House aide compares the scene to the famous "Land Shark" skit from Saturday Night Live, with everyone hiding behind the door afraid to make a sound. "Rangel was the land shark, I guess," the aide jokes. But the real punch line came when Thomas finally opened the door. "This meeting," he informed Rangel, "is only open to the coalition of the willing."

 

 

 

It's a long article.

 

 

And Theo: Are you seriously dense enough to think that this bill will only be used against actual terrorists? Is a kid protesting by burning a flag in a city square a terrorist? Should he be denied his right to due process? Because all this is possible under the new bill. If Bush does something you really don't like and you go out and protest it and get arrested and detaineed as an enemy combatent without your right to fair trial and legal representation as granted under the 4th, 5th, 6th, and 8th Amendment, would you still feel this was a great law?

 

Is it the de-individualizing process of military training that makes you say these things, or is this practice for when the day comes that they start taking people off the street and their homes for something they said on the internet?

[Qawee]

I dont see how you can defend US/NATO bombardment of Kosovo. That was just as much an imperialist action as the current war in iraq is now.

Bombing cigarette factories? Come on now man.

[Theo Huxtable.]

I dont see how you can defend US/NATO bombardment of Kosovo. That was just as much an imperialist action as the current war in iraq is now.

Bombing cigarette factories? Come on now man.

 

well, although you might be right about it being imperialist, i don't think it was nearly as bad as this iraq situation. for one, milosovic was using "ethnic cleansing" against the people in kosovo, so there was some kind of excuse to go at them... with iraq there was no real reason to go to war, it was totally unprovoked... the entire war in serbia/kosovo i think was just aerial bombarding and not a drawn out ground war with mass casualties like you see in iraq.

[Qawee]

sdg

[Qawee]

They did in the iraq situation use the "ethnic cleansing" of the kurds as well as sadaam being a "rutheless dictator" as one of many pretexts, although none were pushed as hard as the WMDs. I'll agree that there werent as many casualties from the bombing and the chaos that ensued in kosovo, but that doesnt mean i'm going to jump onto this wagon of thinking that during the clinton reign in the whitehouse it was some sort of camelot, "clintonlot" if you will of goodness and empathy for mankind.

Clinton is just as bad as Bush, but I wouldn't use the FBI/ATF assault on some nutjob like randy weaver to illustrate that.

[fermentor666]

He wasn't "just as bad as Bush", you'd be an idiot to think that. And if you think I'm saying he was the best ever, I'm not. I'm just clearing some things up.

 

Bosnia had nothing to do with imperialism, we did not take control of that country. All the US did was stop the genocide that was on-goingly documented by the international press. People were being killed by the thousands because they were Muslim. Talk to someone from there who moved to the states. I went to school with a couple of kids who crawled across several miles of snow while avoiding snipers, grenades, and land mines. These kids were 14 and 15 when they saw family members and friends get blown to pieces by bullets and hand grenades. Women and children forced into a line on a bridge where they'd get their throat cut and thrown in the river. It wasn't exaggerated like Hussein and the Kurds. It's the kind of thing that should have been done in Rwanda in 94 and in Durfar now.

[fermentor666]

And all the while the U.N. sat there and did nothing. Their "peace-keeping" troops literally sat there and watched this all happen up close. The small tasks that they were there for, like keeping major, neutral supply roads open, they failed at. Villages starved to death because of their failure and thousands died.

[livetodestro]

Clinton is just as bad as Bush

 

This comment is so beyond retarded that it cancels out any point you may have ever made.:rolleyes:

[livetodestro]

well, although you might be right about it being imperialist, i don't think it was nearly as bad as this iraq situation. for one, milosovic was using "ethnic cleansing" against the people in kosovo, so there was some kind of excuse to go at them... with iraq there was no real reason to go to war, it was totally unprovoked... the entire war in serbia/kosovo i think was just aerial bombarding and not a drawn out ground war with mass casualties like you see in iraq.

 

And for once I'm going to agree with this guy.

[livetodestro]

Not to mention, I might be wrong but wasn't the shit between Sadam and the Kurds back in the 80's?

[Qawee]

He wasn't "just as bad as Bush", you'd be an idiot to think that. And if you think I'm saying he was the best ever, I'm not. I'm just clearing some things up.

 

Bosnia had nothing to do with imperialism, we did not take control of that country. All the US did was stop the genocide that was on-goingly documented by the international press. People were being killed by the thousands because they were Muslim. Talk to someone from there who moved to the states. I went to school with a couple of kids who crawled across several miles of snow while avoiding snipers, grenades, and land mines. These kids were 14 and 15 when they saw family members and friends get blown to pieces by bullets and hand grenades. Women and children forced into a line on a bridge where they'd get their throat cut and thrown in the river. It wasn't exaggerated like Hussein and the Kurds. It's the kind of thing that should have been done in Rwanda in 94 and in Durfar now.

 

The thing with Kosovo was a war to reinstall capitalist private property relations in the former Yugoslavia, not to stop genocide. How do you explain NATO bombardment of factories? Just collateral damage?

 

Periodic US bombardment of Iraq infrastructure while Clinton was president? Bombing of Pharmecutical factory in Sudan during the Clinton presidency?

 

What about Clinton's collaberation with republicans to defund MSHA (Mining Safety and Health Administration)? How many miners have died this year due to horrible safety conditions within the mines that MSHA is supposed to inspect?

[Flavicon]

We're even banning Vegemite!!!!

 

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20623973-2,00.html

[Flavicon]

*I just really wanted to put that somewear without making a new thread in ch0^^^^

 

 

resume...

[IRONHEAD]

Dude, shut the fuck up...first you dont know me...Yes I work for the goverment, so what its a job..I'm not a politician just a trigger man

 

I feel the same way you do about are current goverment, its fucked up and going to hell but who can you blame? The people voted for this asshole?!!

 

In order to keep are country great we need to vote, we need to change the policies that where made...rasing an army is not going to change shit

 

Do you have military training??

Do you know military tactics and training??

 

Most of these milita motherfuckers when it comes down to it dont stand a chance against the goverment and their "agents".

 

That is why the whole pitch forks and torches shit aint going to work

 

What we need is not fighters but brilliant political minds to change the system from the inside and not be bought off or not have the balls to stand up for the true American System.

 

We dont need guns we need a total mind change of the American people to give a fuck about what is going around them and to vote, scream, and get motivated to do something about it..

 

:)

 

i agree. society is totally complacent. kinda like the old saying idle hands are the devils workshop....or it went something like that.

[angelofdeath]

"Maybe it's not mandated under the constitution but fuck that extremist viewpoint."

 

HAHA!.

perhaps i should just stop right there.

after all your worried about bush violating the 4th amendment right? with his patriot act and wire taps, and no knock searches? HAHAHA fuck an extremist view point like that.

 

Clinton COULD OF STOPPED WACO and is fully responsible because his branch of government waged the war on civilians. thanks for writing an apologia about destroying your own citizens. there is only one word to call killing and burning 80 civilians, including SEVERAL DOZEN CHILDREN! with automatic weapon fire, helicopters, tanks, poison gas because a couple of the people ALLEDGEDLY violated an UNCONSTITUTIONAL gun law... that word, is TYRANNY.

 

i think we already proved on here that clinton did wire taps citizens and read thier emails. as thomas dilorenzo pointed out:

 

"Beginning in 1999, the National Security Agency ran a spy satellite program named "Echelon" which scans millions of phone calls, e-mails, and faxes from all around the world, ostensibly looking for "national security threats." The Soviet Union’s secret police were never so prying and abusive of citizens’ privacy. "

 

and yes, you are a gigantic hypocrite for saying that it was ok to bomb kosovo and iraq, but condemn the current iraq war, as Quawee pointed out. imperialist action is imperialist action. bill clinton killed thousands in his over seas adventures.

 

through out the 90's, over a dozen outspoken conseravtive and libertarian groups were audited because of thier criticizing of this governemnt intervention, but not one left wing group was 'audited.'

 

clinton also really exanded the federal police powers, especially in the war on drugs. thanks to clinton, the DEA can not break into your house, confiscate everything you own, because an 'informer' says thier MIGHT be a marijuana plant in your house. it will take years to get your property back, if ever, and it will most likely be destroyed. dozens of innocent civilians and pets have been gunned down by the various unconstitutional federal 'agencies.'

 

and im not even going to get into his trampling of gun rights, that started with bush senior, and the AWB.

 

"nd they sure as shit don't give a fuck about the constitution or even democracy."

 

this is again hilarious to me, because you just said fuck an extremist view point like defending the constitution, now you say i dont give a fuck about it? we dont live in a democracy, the constitution didnt create one. you sheeple who blindly follow partisan politics are fooling yourself. the police state is consistently bi partisan. Bush I = ruby ridge, first iraq war. clinton = waco, numerous unconstitutional bombings and 'wars', pre-patriot act government expansion in that area, etc. bush 2= iraq, abolition of the 4th amendment and habeus corpus, and you know the rest.

 

get a clue man.

 

clinton should of been impeached and hung as a traitor. not for getting a BJ, but for all i just listed. Bush 2 should of been impeached and hung as a traitor and enemy of the constitution. but what do we get if bush is impeached? the gun grabbing socialists that is Nancy Pelosi and co. we are fucked. time to hit the governments reset button.

 

i like bush for one reason.he gave the clintonistas a dose of thier own medicine. a plague on both thier houses. but some of yall are to busy defending mass murders and the like.

[angelofdeath]

"FBI/ATF assault on some nutjob like randy weaver to illustrate that"

 

that was bush I. clinton admin just tried to keep it covered up.

[IRONHEAD]

If this bill is intended to counteract terrorism and i think it is mostly intended for that purpose, and you dont agree with it, then ask yourself what kind of attack is acceptable to you? Another attack on united states soil like the towers, pentagon, etc... one that would kill more people than those attacks? I think that this bill is important to stop certain things from happening. If it is not abused it will be a strong mobement in the prevention of more senseless killing. However I do think it will eventually be abused.

[Larry Pubes]

they (the US) used a fuckload of DU munitions in kosovo. shit is triflin'.

and now they are using it again in iraq and afghanistan. basically they are turning the middle east/central asia into a radiological disaster zone. the sweet part is uranium breaks down with a half life of like 4 billion years or something, so the radiological mess is there forever..

[IRONHEAD]

they (the US) used a fuckload of DU munitions in kosovo. shit is triflin'.

and now they are using it again in iraq and afghanistan. basically they are turning the middle east/central asia into a radiological disaster zone. the sweet part is uranium breaks down with a half life of like 4 billion years or something, so the radiological mess is there forever..

 

 

do you know anything about depleted uranium? i dont think you should make comments about things you have no clue about.

[lord_casek]

do you know anything about depleted uranium? i dont think you should make comments about things you have no clue about.

 

 

 

i know about DU. quite extensively. i will make comments freely. here's one:

 

LARRY PUBES IS CORRECT. just wait until the troops start coming home dying of radiation poisoning, having deformed children, etc.

 

over 100,000 of the gulf war vets are DEAD now. D-E-A-D.

[Guest R@ndomH3ro]

i know about DU. quite extensively. i will make comments freely. here's one:

 

LARRY PUBES IS CORRECT. just wait until the troops start coming home dying of radiation poisoning, having deformed children, etc.

 

over 100,000 of the gulf war vets are DEAD now. D-E-A-D.

 

Because of DU Sneak has been told.....

 

1. Most likely he will die of some weird cancer

2. He will have to be monitored from time to time through pyshicals

3. Not to even think about giving blood

 

 

Thanks for reminding me asshole. :(

 

 

 

Sneak has been around a lot of DU

[lord_casek]

sorry sneakandcreep. really, i am. you need to check on yourself before (if) you decide to have

more kids. your daughter appears to be a "pre-sneak went to war" baby. good thing.

 

too bad our boys are over there without proper equipment to protect themselves when they are cleaning up the mess our military made (is making) by using DU in bullets, bombs, etc.

 

not many know about it. we should all be concerned.

[fermentor666]

Blaming Clinton for Waco is typical wacko shit. Sorry, doesn't work.

 

I never said I agreed with periodically bombing Iraq, just like I never said Clinton was perfect.

 

Kosovo needed to happen, and we did not install ourselves there so it's hardly the same thing as Iraq.

 

The Bosnia air raids did not violate the constitution, that is what I meant by "mandated". Denying citizens of due process violates the constitution.

[Theo Huxtable.]

This comment is so beyond retarded that it cancels out any point you may have ever made.:rolleyes:

 

well aside from the insults you hurled, i agree with you, clinton was not as bad as bush. clinton was one of the greatest, most intelligent presidents, and bush was a complete opposite... sure clinton made some mistakes but he wasn't nearly as war-driven as bush. that said, i generally like qawee's posts

[angelofdeath]

"he Bosnia air raids did not violate the constitution, that is what I meant by "mandated". Denying citizens of due process violates the constitution."

 

bullshit.

 

the federal government cannot attack anything unless they declare war. the president has no power to decide when or where to attack something. the only leeway is if WE ARE ATTACKED, the president can call troops until a war declaration is passed. so, clintons bombings were just as unconstitutional as bush's iraq war.

 

saying that the clinton appointed justice department, the FBI, BATF all under control of the president, that attacked civilians in waco texas, has nothing to do with clinton, is absolutefuckingly retarded. that is like saying 'well, bush wasnt behind the military commission act of 06, he just happened to be presiding president when it passed.' sorry, that doesnt cut the mustard.

 

bill clinton waged war on his own citizens.

 

trying to determine which president, bush or clinton, was worse, is like trying to determine which dictator was worse... stalin or hitler.

the tradeoffs just arent there. the government was smaller under clinton than bush. but clinton was raiding the montana freemen and burning citizens alive. both were waging unconstitutional wars. both were destroying civil liberty. and most on here think that economic liberty is somehow different than civil liberty.

its like choosing between dumb and dumber.

[Larry Pubes]

do you know anything about depleted uranium? i dont think you should make comments about things you have no clue about.

 

that's funny because believe it or not i posted that briefly after reading some notes on the subject by a US nuclear physicist. if you have other information i'd be willing to have a peep though..