angelofdeath Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 all hail republicanism. to bad we stopped using ye ol parchment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Benjamin Franklin happy constitution day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereotype V.0002 Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 There is no kind of dishonesty into which otherwise good people more easily and frequently fall than that of defrauding the government. - Benjamin Franklin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell jones Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 "All over the place, from the popular culture to the propaganda system, there is constant pressure to make people feel that they are helpless, that the only role they can have is to ratify decisions and to consume." Noam Chomsky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell jones Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Benjamin Franklin happy constitution day! That's a great one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereotype V.0002 Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 I recently read a great article by Noam Chomsky where he explains how the superbowl and NFL are really a government plot to keep people subdued and from thinking about all of the bad things the US does in the world. I'm never watching football again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Pubes Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 ^no way dude!!! he really said that?!?!? get out!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Pubes Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 "He's on his final hole. He's about 455 yards away, he's gonna hit about a 2 iron I think."- Carl Spackler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted September 17, 2006 Author Share Posted September 17, 2006 man, chomsky shouldnt be mentioned on this thread.... its about the republican form of government not destruction of private property. the constitution is about protecting property (and rights) not abolishing it. but in the name of free speech, etc etc, i'll give it a pass today. i'll protect his right to preach his philosophy, even though i disagree with the majority of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 Enlighten the people, generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like spirits at the dawn of day. I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. The will of the people is the only legitimate foundation of any government, and to protect its free expression should be our first object. -Thomas Jefferson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell jones Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 man, chomsky shouldnt be mentioned on this thread.... its about the republican form of government not destruction of private property. the constitution is about protecting property (and rights) not abolishing it. but in the name of free speech, etc etc, i'll give it a pass today. i'll protect his right to preach his philosophy, even though i disagree with the majority of it. You telling me you don't like that quote of his that I posted? You may agree with him more often than you think... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted September 17, 2006 Author Share Posted September 17, 2006 i mean, he says some decent stuff. but overall, libertarian socialism is just a big gigantic joke to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 I recently read a great article by Noam Chomsky where he explains how the superbowl and NFL are really a government plot to keep people subdued and from thinking about all of the bad things the US does in the world. I'm never watching football again. Dude, the whole American lifestyle is a distraction. who wants to speak up as long as they can ride up to the strip mall in their SUV and stay fat off spiced lattes and all-you-can eat buffet, Big papa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shai Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 ^Which is exactly what I've been saying here for how long now...about three years? We're going to choke to death on our own excess someday. Mark my words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted September 18, 2006 Author Share Posted September 18, 2006 lets take this thread a little deeper. what does everyone think of the anti federalist tradition in america? the OPPONENTS of the constitution? i personally think they were vindicated. why? they feared that the constitution would be abused. they didnt think it effectively limited the central state because it gave it to much power. they were in favor of the articles of confederation and mainly wanted to keep the central government from having the power to tax. 200 some odd years later, they were definately right. the strict constructionism theory didnt hold strong enough. and now we have what we have today. an oversized beauracracy that taxes, regulates and militarizes everything it possibly can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 and now we have what we have today. an oversized beauracracy that taxes, regulates and militarizes everything it possibly can. don't forget it's all for the security and betterment of the American people..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 Hey everybody, Let's have an orgy! -Ben Franklin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 heh, heh....Rodney is the dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted September 18, 2006 Author Share Posted September 18, 2006 A Very Inconvenient Document by Vin Suprynowicz DIGG THIS Thanks to a 2004 law authored by U.S. Sen. Robert Byrd, D-W.Va., every American school and college that receives federal money must teach about the Constitution on Sept. 17 (the date the document was adopted, in 1787), or the closest school day available. Needless to say, the edict has brought some whimpering. Dan Fuller, director of federal programs for the National School Boards Association, told the Associated Press last year that such dictates interrupt regular lessons on other subjects. (Gaia worship, perhaps? "Recycling IV"? "Multicultural Sensitivity"?) "We don’t need the federal micromanagement," he said. "Congress has been acting more like a school board. ... Local schools cover the Constitution, and they’ve been doing it for a long time." It would be nice to think so. The problem is that old paintings of fellows in funny stockings and waistcoats make the Constitution seem a dry and dusty subject, of little concern in an era of DVDs and rocket ships. Yet a government under the U.S. Constitution, to paraphrase columnist Joseph Sobran, would be a radical improvement over the one we have today. The Constitution represents a great compromise. It erected a stronger central government than that which had prevailed under the Articles of Confederation, but it promised a skeptical nation – one that has just spent a long and difficult decade throwing off the reins of King George – that the powers of that government would be sharply limited. Delineating and thereby limiting the powers of the central government is, in fact, the main function of the founding document. But while teaching kids the Constitution is an admirable goal, the very radical nature of the document raises questions as to whether the government schools as currently constituted are a reasonable choice to do the job. While few critics of "central" and "strong" are to be found teaching public-school Civics classes these days, any discussion of the LIMITS on government power are likely to be short-circuited, today, with complaints that they’re "too political," "too complicated," or "not age-appropriate." Walter Williams, professor of economics at George Mason University and author of the books "More Liberty Means Less Government" and "The State Against Blacks," is a mighty defender of the Constitution – yet declined to join the cheering section for Sen. Byrd’s holiday, last week. "I cannot think of a piece of legislation that makes greater mockery of the Constitution," professor Williams wrote in his weekly column, "or a more constitutionally odious person to father it – Sen. Byrd, a person who is known as, and proudly wears the label, ‘King of Pork.’ " "The only reason that Constitution Day hasn’t become a laughingstock," Professor Williams continued, "is because most Americans are totally ignorant of, or have contempt for, the letter and spirit of our Constitution. "Let’s examine just a few statements by the framers to see just how much faith and allegiance today’s Americans give to the U.S. Constitution," professor Williams suggests. "James Madison is the acknowledged father of the Constitution. In 1794, when Congress appropriated $15,000 for relief for French refugees who fled from insurrection in San Domingo (now Haiti) to Baltimore and Philadelphia, James Madison said disapprovingly, ‘I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.’ "Today, at least two-thirds of a $2.5 trillion federal budget is spent on ‘objects of benevolence.’ That includes Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, aid to higher education, farm and business subsidies, welfare, etc., ad nauseam. ... "Constitutionally ignorant people might argue that the Constitution’s ‘general welfare’ clause justifies today’s actions by Congress," Professor Williams submits. "Here’s what James Madison said: ‘If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the General Welfare, the Government is no longer a limited one, possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one, subject to particular exceptions.’ Thomas Jefferson echoed, in a letter to Pennsylvania Rep. Albert Gallatin, ‘Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated.’ " It would be wonderful to see the U.S. Constitution taught in the public schools. I will believe such a course of education is underway when someone can show me a list of study questions being presented to today’s students, including: Article I Section 8 grants to Congress alone the power "to declare war." Did President Bush seek and declare a congressional "Declaration of War" against Iraq? If not, did he violate the Constitution when he sent troops to attack that nation? Article I Section 8 says the Congress can exercise "exclusive Legislation in all cases" over the District of Columbia, and may "exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be ..." May it exercise such exclusive authority over Yucca Mountain – building a nuclear waste dump there without state permission, for example – even though it can show no bill of sale, nor written consent of the Nevada Legislature to allow it to purchase that land? Where in the Constitution does that authority arise? Article I Section 10 says "No state shall ... make any thing but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts." What was the founders’ experience with fiat paper currency that led to the insertion of that clause? Does the widespread acceptance of "federal reserve notes," not convertible into gold and silver, violate this provision? Why or why not? The Second Amendment says the right of the people to keep and bear arms "shall not be infringed." Do background checks, waiting periods, $200 taxes, and requirements that a machine-gun purchase be approved by your local chief of police constitute "infringements" of these rights? Where in the Constitution are such restrictions authorized? The Fourth Amendment says a house cannot be searched without a warrant "particularly describing ... the person or things to be seized." Yet police routinely seize firearms found during searches, even when no firearms are specifically listed on the search warrant. Is this constitutional? Can the courts waive such restrictions without going through the amendment process stipulated in Article V? A constitutional amendment (the 18th, since repealed) was required to outlaw alcohol nationwide. When was the constitutional amendment ratified which authorizes the similar outlawing of marijuana, cocaine, and opium? What is its number? The 13th amendment says "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." Are compulsory schooling or military conscription consistent with this provision? Not so dry and dusty, any more, is it? Better to stick with condemning the founding fathers as slave-owning misogynists, perhaps. Surely Sen. Byrd did not intend that the children should be encouraged to ask so many inconvenient questions. And at such a tender age. Mind you, no age is too young to start propagandizing them towards socialism. (All the privately purchased school supplies being pooled, anyone?) But not THIS stuff! Heavens! September 18, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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