lord_casek Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 israel has american weapons and american forces backing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted July 21, 2006 Author Share Posted July 21, 2006 tuff shit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obvious Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 OR' date=' or... OR, they could MAN UP AND FIGHT ISRAEL... Why can't they fight Israel? They're obviously willing to fight Americans so the 'US retaliation' argument fails as an excuse, what other reason is there?[/quote'] who exactly fought america? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted July 21, 2006 Author Share Posted July 21, 2006 uh.. there's this thing, right now, in Iraq... I count that... but we can go back to the Beruit bombings of the USMC base in the 80's if you want... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Where are the Christians By Patrick J. Buchanan Tuesday, July 18, 2006 When Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert unleashed his navy and air force on Lebanon, accusing that tiny nation of an "act of war," the last pillar of Bush's Middle East policy collapsed. First came capitulation on the Bush Doctrine, as Pyongyang and Tehran defied Bush's dictum: The world's worst regimes will not be allowed to acquire the world's worst weapons. Then came suspension of the democracy crusade as Islamic militants exploited free elections to advance to power and office in Egypt, Lebanon, Gaza, the West Bank, Iraq and Iran. Now Israel's rampage against a defenseless Lebanon -- smashing airport runways, fuel tanks, power plants, gas stations, lighthouses, bridges, roads and the occasional refugee convoy -- has exposed Bush's folly in subcontracting U.S. policy out to Tel Aviv, thus making Israel the custodian of our reputation and interests in the Middle East. The Lebanon that Israel, with Bush's blessing, is smashing up has a pro-American government, heretofore considered a shining example of his democracy crusade. Yet, asked in St. Petersburg if he would urge Israel to use restraint in its air strikes, Bush sounded less like the leader of the Free World than some bellicose city councilman from Brooklyn Heights. What Israel is up to was described by its Army Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Dan Halutz when he threatened to "turn back the clock in Lebanon 20 years." Olmert seized upon Hezbollah's capture of two Israeli soldiers to unleash the IDF in a pre-planned attack to make the Lebanese people suffer until the Lebanese government disarms Hezbollah, a task the Israeli army could not accomplish in 18 years of occupation. Israel is doing the same to the Palestinians. To punish these people for the crime of electing Hamas, Olmert imposed an economic blockade of Gaza and the West Bank and withheld the $50 million in monthly tax and customs receipts due the Palestinians. Then, Israel instructed the United States to terminate all aid to the Palestinian Authority, though Bush himself had called for the elections and for the participation of Hamas. Our Crawford cowboy meekly complied. The predictable result: Fatah and Hamas fell to fratricidal fighting, and Hamas militants began launching Qassam rockets over the fence from Gaza into Israel. Hamas then tunneled into Israel, killed two soldiers, captured one, took him back into Gaza, and demanded a prisoner exchange. Israel's response was to abduct half of the Palestinian cabinet and parliament and blow up a $50 million U.S.-insured power plant. That cut off electricity for half a million Palestinians. Their food spoiled, their water could not be purified, and their families sweltered in the summer heat of the Gaza desert. One family of seven was wiped out on a beach by what the IDF assures us was an errant artillery shell. Let it be said: Israel has a right to defend herself, a right to counter-attack against Hezbollah and Hamas, a right to clean out bases from which Katyusha or Qassam rockets are being fired and a right to occupy land from which attacks are mounted on her people. But what Israel is doing is imposing deliberate suffering on civilians, collective punishment on innocent people, to force them to do something they are powerless to do: disarm the gunmen among them. Such a policy violates international law and comports neither with our values nor our interests. It is un-American and un-Christian. But where are the Christians? Why is Pope Benedict virtually alone among Christian leaders to have spoken out against what is being done to Lebanese Christians and Muslims? When al Qaeda captured two U.S. soldiers and barbarically butchered them, the U.S. Army did not smash power plants across the Sunni Triangle. Why then is Bush not only silent but openly supportive when Israelis do this? Democrats attack Bush for crimes of which he is not guilty, including Haditha and Abu Ghraib. Why are they, too, silent when Israel pursues a conscious policy of collective punishment of innocent peoples? Britain's diplomatic goal in two world wars was to bring the naive cousins in, to "pull their chestnuts out of the fire." Israel and her paid and pro-bono agents here appear determined to expand the Iraq war into Syria and Iran, and have America fight and finish all of Israel's enemies. That Tel Aviv is maneuvering us to fight its wars is understandable. That Americans are ignorant of, or complicit in this, is deplorable. Already, Bush is ranting about Syria being behind the Hezbollah capture of the Israeli soldiers. But where is the proof? Who is whispering in his ear? The same people who told him Iraq was maybe months away from an atom bomb, that an invasion would be a "cakewalk," that he would be Churchill, that U.S. troops would be greeted with candy and flowers, that democracy would break out across the region, that Palestinians and Israelis would then sit down and make peace? How much must America pay for the education of this man? 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angelofdeath Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 The Israel Resolution by Ron Paul Before the U.S. House of Representatives, July 20, 2006 I rise in opposition to this resolution, which I sincerely believe will do more harm than good. I do agree with the resolution's condemnation of violence. But I am convinced that when we get involved in foreign conflicts and send strong messages, such as this resolution will, it ends up expanding the war rather than diminishing the conflict, and that ultimately comes back to haunt us. Mr. Speaker, I follow a policy in foreign affairs called non-interventionism. I do not believe we are making the United States more secure when we involve ourselves in conflicts overseas. The Constitution really doesn't authorize us to be the policemen of the world, much less to favor one side over another in foreign conflicts. It is very clear, reading this resolution objectively, that all the terrorists are on one side and all the victims and the innocents are on the other side. I find this unfair, particularly considering the significantly higher number of civilian casualties among Lebanese civilians. I would rather advocate neutrality rather than picking sides, which is what this resolution does. Some would say that there is no room to talk about neutrality, as if neutrality were a crime. I would suggest there should be room for an open mind to consider another type of policy that may save American lives. I was in Congress in the early 1980s when the US Marines were sent in to Lebanon, and I came to the Floor before they went, when they went, and before they were killed, arguing my case against getting involved in that conflict. Ronald Reagan, when he sent the troops in, said he would never turn tail and run. Then, after the Marines were killed, he had a reassessment of the policy. When he wrote his autobiography a few years later after leaving the Presidency, he wrote this. Perhaps we didn't appreciate fully enough the depth of the hatred and the complexity of the problems that made the Middle East such a jungle. Perhaps the idea of a suicide car bomber committing mass murder to gain instant entry to Paradise was so foreign to our own values and consciousness that it did not create in us the concern for the marines' safety that it should have. In the weeks immediately after the bombing, I believe the last thing that we should do was turn tail and leave. Yet the irrationality of Middle Eastern politics forced us to rethink our policy there. If there would be some rethinking of policy before our men die, we would be a lot better off. If that policy had changed towards more of a neutral position and neutrality, those 241 marines would be alive today. It is very easy to criticize the Government of Lebanon for not doing more about Hezbollah. I object to terrorism committed by Hezbollah because I am a strong opponent to all violence on all sides. But I also object to the unreasonable accusations that the Government of Lebanon has not done enough, when we realize that Israel occupied southern Lebanon for 18 years and was not able to neutralize Hezbollah. Mr. Speaker, There is nothing wrong with considering the fact that we don't have to be involved in every single fight. That was the conclusion that Ronald Reagan came to, and he was not an enemy of Israel. He was a friend of Israel. But he concluded that that is a mess over there. Let me just repeat those words that he used. He said, he came to the conclusion, "The irrationality of Middle Eastern politics forced us to rethink our policy there.'' I believe these words are probably more valid now even than when they were written. July 21, 2006 Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from Texas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2342 Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14081.htm Check this out....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.crooked Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Did the constitution say about how to deal with idiots on a web forum? no but i can. ban him on grounds of stupidity, its been done before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2342 Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14055.htm This is exactly how is was when I lived there- and of course- nothing has changed- except it is much worse now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Nobody's gonna read any of that shit... way to take a dump on my thread. Did the constitution say about how to deal with idiots on a web forum? cmon smart, get smart. the articles back the general thought on here... israel bad, stay out of foreign wars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted July 21, 2006 Author Share Posted July 21, 2006 cmon smart' date=' get smart. [/quote'] WHOA! WHAT!?! You're gonna post a Pat Robertson article and then tell me to "get smart" you're lucky I don't just ban you on principal... principally how you tried to post a Pat Robertson article with a straight face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.crooked Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 ^^Pat Buchannan... But back to the actual discussion. The reason the arab world is fighting by proxy in this case, I think, is to show that they can fuck up relations indirectly as well as directly. Not only that, but if a nation straight out comes in support of lebannon and fucks up isreal, were really gonna see this shit blow up, and they know that. No country, be it Iran, Syria, France or other is gonna step against Israel so long as we have their back. We are still supporting the Israely (sp?) offensive because it pushes our agenda against groups like Hizbullah. edit- Smart, get your ban on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted July 21, 2006 Author Share Posted July 21, 2006 Buchannan, right...oops, good lookin out... but Pat Buchannan is the NEW Pat Robertson! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 "Not only that, but if a nation straight out comes in support of lebannon and fucks up isreal, were really gonna see this shit blow up, and they know that. No country, be it Iran, Syria, France or other is gonna step back."against Israel so long as we have their back" very very true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted July 21, 2006 Author Share Posted July 21, 2006 BITCH! You keep getting served and you keep dodging the issues. Not the WORLD issues but the ones folks have with you. You're gonna have to step it up or just step off.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qawee Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Buchannan is a closet fascist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 BITCH! You keep getting served and you keep dodging the issues. Not the WORLD issues but the ones folks have with you. You're gonna have to step it up or just step off.... what are you talking about? i agree with crooked on some stuff. what is this about getting 'served?' your the one with a hard on for pat robertson for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.crooked Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Buchannan is a closet fascist. I wouldn't say he's in the closet about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyone Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Beirut fuck that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obvious Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 first off, fuck you back. watch the generalizations, please/thanks, you wouldn't like it if i started calling you a right wing, conservative, bush supporting douche when i don't really know you for shit. second, your analogy blows. israel's deliberate targetting of critical infrastructure that overwhelmingly benefits innocent civilians in gaza and lebanon is by any standard within the realm of sanity completely fucking stupid. i also haven't said a peep contesting who 'started it', but just for the sake of argument, just because 2 soldiers were taken does not legitimize israel's deliberate targetting of grain silos, bridges, water purification plants, and other infrastructure that will create unbearable conditions primarily for innocent men, women and children. today alone israel killed over 70 people raising the death toll to nearly 330 mostly innocent people. was it a retarded and reckless move by hezbollah? yes. although i may not have a sound alternative, it's clear to me and millions of other sensible people across the planet israel is off it's rocker right now. third, your comments supporting israeli actions in gaza and southern lebanon do not jive with the critical issue of the occupation and 'all respect to the innocent families in both lebanon and israel'...you also forgot palestine and the crisis in gaza. and apparently some of you guys fall hook line and sinker for the 'might makes right' concept. although violence works in many cases, history shows all sorts of nasty things brewing under such conditions. regardless of how utterly fucking stupid it was to 'kidnap' 2 kids amidst the thousands that are abducted by the idf and held indefinitely, the grievance meter just went through the fucking roof, all with uncle sam idly standing by with a shit eating grin. you think the kids that live in southern lebanon witnessing this shit are going to grow up with a favourable attitude towards israel? you think it's lost on them that uncle sam is supporting this? the chickens are going to come home to roost. whooooo. are you a liberal hezbollah advocate? because that's who it was directed to. if you are, fuck you. fuck you for supporting terrorists that indiscriminately kill innocent men, women, and children. israel is not perfect and i never said they were. but if i, or most people with sense had to pick a side of who'd they'd rather control this world -- governments like israel and the u.s., or hezbollah and al-qaida? the choice is simple. i'm guessing you choose the latter. the u.s. gives you the right to spew your venom and "anti-establishment" extreme liberalism. if you were ruled by hezbollah or al-qaida, the moment you questioned their authority you'd be beheaded, or buried in sand up to the neck and then stoned to death. look at the bigger picture. this is a battle of ideologies. not just some minimal skirmish between the group of hezbollah and israel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obvious Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 uh.. there's this thing, right now, in Iraq... I count that... but we can go back to the Beruit bombings of the USMC base in the 80's if you want... right, you were responding to someone saying that iran and syria can't fight israel head-on, so they do it by proxy means through groups like hezbollah to avoid retaliation. you said they should man up and fight since they're willing to fight america... i'm just asking who since neither of those countries decided to fight america head on... iraq -- it wasn't iraq's decision to fight america, they just got invaded and toppled. no legitimate government is fighting the u.s. government head on, other than multiple groups of insurgents. the beirut bombings was a hezbollah terrorist attack, but no country fought the u.s. head-on. i'm just saying the case is exactly the same with the u.s. and israel as far as no arab countries wanting them to go head to head with them... although some arab countries fought israel head-on in '48, '67, and in the 70's... each time those arab countries were defeated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 israel is dropping 12,000 pound bombs on lebanon. 23x bigger than the jdams we dropped on iraq in the beginning of the war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CALIgula Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 lol @ granny porn in a cross fire thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
---> Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 fuck you for supporting terrorists that indiscriminately kill innocent men' date=' women, and children. [/quote'] Exactly. Fuck Hezbollah and espescially fuck Isreal. israel is not perfect and i never said they were. but if i, or most people with sense had to pick a side of who'd they'd rather control this world -- governments like israel and the u.s., or hezbollah and al-qaida? the choice is simple. They're both terrorists. Fuck them both. Including Bushes vision for the US. I'll choose Canada or Switzerland style government. (He said "Isreal is not perfect":haha: ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CALIgula Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 anyone catch Bush massaging the german lady? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyone Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 They're both terrorists. Fuck them both. ^cosigned i dont hate on arabs or jews by default but that conflict down there and how they try to handle it is über retarded. israeli childs signing bombs with messages like 'from israel with love' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Power Bill Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 ^^^ Disturbing. Yeah, fuck them both. Why can`t they see that without their pesky religions they are essentially the same hummous eating desert pooheads. Why are all of the world`s religions from such shitholes? If there really was a god he/she would just settle it for whatever side was right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
---> Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 If there really was a god he/she would just settle it for whatever side was right. I have a fealing that God is so disgusted and fed up with both sides that he's just gonna let them kill eachother off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Pubes Posted July 23, 2006 Share Posted July 23, 2006 are you a liberal hezbollah advocate? because that's who it was directed to. if you are, fuck you. fuck you for supporting terrorists that indiscriminately kill innocent men, women, and children. israel is not perfect and i never said they were. but if i, or most people with sense had to pick a side of who'd they'd rather control this world -- governments like israel and the u.s., or hezbollah and al-qaida? the choice is simple. i'm guessing you choose the latter. the u.s. gives you the right to spew your venom and "anti-establishment" extreme liberalism. if you were ruled by hezbollah or al-qaida, the moment you questioned their authority you'd be beheaded, or buried in sand up to the neck and then stoned to death. look at the bigger picture. this is a battle of ideologies. not just some minimal skirmish between the group of hezbollah and israel. uh, you quoted my statement, then said fuck liberal hezbollah lovers. sure, fine, you were just throwing it out there at everyone else but me. anyways, your 4th sentence is highly ironic and you don't even seem to grasp it. israel's not perfect huh? well why don’t you tell me about it...seriously. another thing..i haven't said shit about who i 'support', but the whole concept of 'pulling for israel' as you put it is so fucking gay i can't even respond to it. you’re a fucking cheerleader dude. awesome. also, this bullshit about spewing 'venom' and 'anti-establishment extreme liberalism' and a what if scenario whereby i should be thankful for being allowed to say such things...this is the type of shit you hear from people like william kristol or bill o'reillly dude. straight totalitarian steez. if somebody questions the legitimacy of israel's actions they are by default: a) anti-semitic b)pro-terrorist, c)extremely liberal(oh my!). laaaaaame-o. the bigger picture is exactly what i’m looking at, but thanks for letting me know your opinion of just how big the picture is in 2 small ass sentences. maybe we should hit rewind here...from the opening act, scene 1: june 24 - israel abducts 2 palestinian civilians, one of whom is a doctor. invading and abducting civilians is a very serious crime in most civilized parts of the world. go ahead, assume the doctor and his brother are ‘terrorists’. palestinians are all dogs anyhow. june 25 - shalit is abducted, likely in response and to leverage a negotiation for prisoners abducted by israel(estimated at 10, 000 men women and children by most credible sources), prompting an extreme retaliation from israel in which they target the only power plant in gaza which overwhelmingly affects 700,000 innocent civilians and destroy other essential infrastructure. i believe this is a war crime under the geneva convention. june 29 - israel pulls a raid and arrests dozens of hamas cabinet ministers and lawmakers. july 12 - hezbollah abducts 2 idf soldiers, the official aim to also have prisoners released(arguable i suppose since there are analyst opinions stating it was to take the pressure off palestinians in gaza and make israel open another front). officially there are only 3 lebanese prisoners in israel, but there are allegely hundreds of lebanese missing, presumably having been abducted by israel. israel responds with ground troops, killing 8 lebanese. july 13 - israel bombs the shit out of beirut's int'l airport and bombs infrastructure, with reports of over 60 lebanese killed, most likely the majority, if not all, being civilians. hezbollah responds with rocket attacks, AFTER israel's attack on southern lebanon. from there it's just more stupidity from both sides. hezbollah fires rockets, which obviously must be stopped, while israel continues targetting infrastructure and killing hundreds more civilians in the process. the situation is fucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted July 23, 2006 Share Posted July 23, 2006 ^^^ Disturbing. Yeah, fuck them both. Why can`t they see that without their pesky religions they are essentially the same hummous eating desert pooheads. Why are all of the world`s religions from such shitholes? If there really was a god he/she would just settle it for whatever side was right. neither side is right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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