Palestine = Owned.

[the.crooked]

like i said...

[serum]

I love how people blatently disregard the other sides problems as if there is a clear right and wrong. Did you ever think that maybe the palestinians are also to blame? They threatened' date=' kassam rocketed, and now captured a soldier to use as a bargining chip. Israel has re-entered its "former" territory to make sure it's people are safe and refuse to be jerked around any more.[/quote']

 

"a former territory" gives this situation a nice touch of complete distance. when in reality this is a full out invasion of a jewish made ghetto. those people are slowly being starved and you're telling me about one sided. a few crappy kassam rockets are nothing compared to tanks rolling up in your neighborhood blowing holes in buildings and helicopters assassinating random hamas members. if i lived in palastine id kidnap that soldier too. bargaining chip. you bet. useless revenge seems better than a life spent taking it up the ass.

[MAR]

See you dont get it. Israel was softening up. The people where getting tired of the whole situation, but then hamas was elected, the attacks picked up and things started going down hill again.

 

That same tiredness of the situation that was bringing about this change has turned around and fucked the palestinians over. The Israelis are tired of the terrorism and now have gone all out.

 

Im sure some of you are thinking well the change that was happening wasnt fair (jobs/trade/etc). Maybe, but how often do you see two warring countries allowing the other to benifit from thier economy? And since when has an apposing force given another land freely when they are the winners?

 

Israel's in a tight spot. They exsist within an area where they have no real allies and franky sometimes that requires them to go a little bigger so no one trys anymore games.

[Smart]

Iran???? WTF???

 

Yeah, WTF? What's so surprising about that? Why would that suggest American involvement?

[Obvious]

all you superliberals and hezbollah-lovers just remember that hezbollah started this; attacked and killed military and civilians in israeli territory, crossed the border of israel and kidnapped 2 israeli soldiers, and then brought those soldiers back into lebonan. israel has the right to defend itself. any nation that is invaded/attacked has the right to defend itself.

[the.crooked]

Yeah' date=' WTF? What's so surprising about that? Why would that suggest American involvement?[/quote']

 

 

I was only suggesting american involvement in that for a long time now we have had a no questions asked support of israel.

[!@#$%]

if it wasn't for total u.s. support of israel with money and arms, they would've gotten run the fuck down a long time ago.

this shit is going so bad so fast

Israel attacks Beirut airport after rockets hit Haifa

 

Thursday, July 13, 2006; Posted: 3:11 p.m. EDT (19:11 GMT)

 

 

 

JERUSALEM (CNN) -- Israeli forces struck Beirut's international airport for the second time Thursday, hitting fuel tanks that exploded into fireballs.

 

The attack came soon after two rockets struck the northern Israeli port of Haifa on a day of spiraling violence and deepening crisis.

 

Israel Defense Forces said the Haifa rockets came from Lebanon and blamed the strike on Hezbollah, whose guerrillas triggered the violence when they attacked inside Israel on Wednesday, killing eight Israeli soldiers and capturing two more. (Watch as fighting along the border intensifies -- 1:45)

 

Daniel Ayalon, the Israeli ambassador to the United States, said the Haifa attack was "a major, major escalation."

 

Hezbollah earlier had threatened to hit Haifa, but Lebanese TV reported that the militant group denied launching the attack on the city of 280,000.

 

Ambulance services said no one was hurt in the attack, which -- if confirmed -- would be the first time Hezbollah rockets have hit so deeply into Israeli territory.

 

Earlier Thursday Israel's warplanes bombed Beirut's international airport for the first time and its navy began a blockade of Lebanon's ports.

 

Hundreds of targets from the border north to the capital were attacked, the IDF said.

 

Hezbollah guerrillas fired scores of rockets from Lebanon into northern Israel in the most intense bombardment in years.

 

Some 45 people and two soldiers have been killed inside Lebanon since Wednesday, the country's health ministry said, while the rocket attacks killed at least one woman in Israel in the wake of the initial violence that saw the Israeli soldiers killed and captured.

 

Lebanon also said 103 people were hurt by the Israeli attacks, The Associated Press reported, while the IDF said 90 people had been injured by the rockets hitting Israel.

 

One rocket attack Thursday on the northern Israeli town of Nahariya hit a group of journalists, the AP said.

 

Both Israel and Lebanon have said the violence amounts to acts of war.

 

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert called the attacks and abductions an "act of war" and blamed the Lebanese government, which he said would be held responsible for the two soldiers' safe release.

 

Lebanese Interior Minister Ahmed Fatfat called Israel's retaliatory attack on Beirut airport a "general act of war," saying the strikes had nothing to do with Hezbollah but were instead an attack against the country's "economic interests," especially its tourism industry.

 

Beirut's Rafik Hariri International Airport was forced to close after Israeli fighter jets hit all three of its runways, leaving huge craters that made them unusable. All flights have been diverted. (Airport map)

 

Two other Lebanese airports were attacked Thursday morning, the IDF said.

 

The Israeli military gave no details, but Lebanese army sources said that the Rayak Air Base in the Bekaa Valley near the Syrian border had been hit as well as a small military airport in Qulayaat in northern Lebanon.

 

Israel said it targeted the international airport because it was a transfer point for weapons and supplies to Hezbollah.

 

Israeli warships were stationed off all of Lebanon's ports to enforce the naval blockade, Reuters news agency reported.

 

Lebanese Information Minister Ghazi Aridi called for a comprehensive cease-fire, saying the Lebanese government had nothing to do with the Hezbollah attacks.

 

After Israel's airport strike, planes began dropping leaflets warning residents of an impending attack on an area of southern Beirut where Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah is believed to live.

[angelofdeath]

geeeeez yall are some anti semites up on here.........hahaha.

 

i'll be so damn glad when 'those countries over there' just blow themselves the fuck up.

[!@#$%]

if only it were that simple.

 

since we are pretty much funding their war, i don't see it being over anytime soon, especially since we have a big interest in digging in over there and we aren't letting go.

the united states bears responsibility in every armed conflict that gets going in that country

and that shit will come home to roost one day

 

i'll be so damn glad when this country gets blown the fuck up

i just hope i'm lucky enough to get extinguished in the flames

[angelofdeath]

yeah the US intervention over there is absolutely retarded. "lets spread democracy!" (so long as the right people get elected)

[the.crooked]

if only it were that simple.

 

since we are pretty much funding their war, i don't see it being over anytime soon, especially since we have a big interest in digging in over there and we aren't letting go.

the united states bears responsibility in every armed conflict that gets going in that country

and that shit will come home to roost one day

 

 

exactly what i meant by US involvement.

[HardyHarHar]

the real question is' date=' what are YOU gunna do when they start doing this shit in america? please believe it will happen in this decade.. american troops or national guard or fema, when the shit hits the fan and martial law is declared, "for national security". im going to be chilling deep in mexico with a big stash of weed and tequila. if you have brown skin or you're not protestant or you've ever talked/thought/searched online/checked out a book about resisting the government, your name is on a LIST. "i did't stand up when they came for the trade unionists because I was not a trade unionist, I did not stand up for the gypsies because i was not a gypsie..... and when they came for me, there was no one left to stand" --Catholic priest killed by Nazis during WWII (the quote is much longer,i just paraphrased for brevity)[/quote']

 

Yeah dood! when that happens you can find me at my mom's basement with a stack of pornos.

 

yeah, sorry, I don't think concentration camps are that far off, I mean gitmo is basically that, but I just get so annoyed by conspiracy nuts. Why don't you go back to the video arcade and stop pretending that you care about this crap.

[Larry Pubes]

all you superliberals and hezbollah-lovers just remember...any nation that is invaded/attacked has the right to defend itself.

 

so theo, you're pro iraqi insurgency then? right o.

[2342]

As I have stated before- I can see both sides of the issue. But having lived in Israel as a Jew- there were no boarders I could not cross- there were no zones I was stapled down to- I rolled on through check points where as Palestinians were forced to sit for hours- just to be turned away because the Israeli military did not like the way they were dressed.

 

Until you see and understand fully what a day in the life of a Palestinian is- save your rants regarding poor, poor Israel. Israel with her Tanks, F-16’s- fully automatic machine guns- fully trained military- all their supplies coming from the ubber powers to the west- America or England.

 

Of course a lot of the major issues boil down to education- for both sides. A deep seeded hatred that goes generations back- but is reinforced daily by parents and grandparents, and history lessons at school………who keep the history alive with angry stories and continual blame- on both sides. Of course if you don’t learn your history- you are doomed to repeat it. I don’t have any logical answers- I have a lot questions.

 

I am not a Hezbollah lover- yes, I am an Ubber Liberal- but that does not make me a lover of anything that comes in the form of anger, death or destruction. Sure- both sides are guilty- but come on- who has the bigger toys- and who is really supplying those bigger toys?

[Dawood]

yep, it's just like a bully to push you around with all of his muscle and then when you clock him he tries to make you look like the bad guy.

 

can I ask someone a question here? this may me irrelevent to the topic, but why does the american govt. get all bunched up when other countries are suspected of going nuclear, but the US is the biggest nuke packin' bomb slinger on the planet?

 

My question is why does every just accept that the U.S. has wmd's , but when let's say, Iraq is suspected of having wmd's, their whole map gets flipped inside out? why is that?

[Smart]

It has little to do with nuclear potential and everything to do with nuclear waste.The US feels guilty that we unleashed the atomic genie and we have been at the forefront of study in the fields surrounding radiation and environmental/health effects. It's just an awful thing, and it's also not a really viable power source either. It's simply 'the best we got' but it took less than 50 years for us to figure out about 'nuclear' what we are still arguing about concerning Gasoline emissions and such after centuries of evidence and research.

 

Now, to get weapon specific, so to speak... nuclear weapons are basically unrestrained nuclear pollution for thousands of years that starts with a big bang. Even Cheyrnobyl was nothing compared to the peripheral damage from a small nuclear device. They're just uncontrollable.

[Obvious]

so theo' date=' you're pro iraqi insurgency then? right o.[/quote']

 

the thing is, i'm not "liberal" on all issues or "conservative" on all issues. Chris Rock made an excellent point, about how it's dumb to just blindly choose sides and agree with all "liberal" and "conservative" views. i am against the iraq war, always have been. but i'm even moreso against senseless terrorism. iraq didn't have WMD's nor were they connected to 9-11. that said, you gotta keep in mind that the majority of the people getting killed at the hands of insurgents are other Iraqis -- not coalition troops. so no, i am not pro iraqi insurgency since they are terrorists.

[Larry Pubes]

yea so anyhow, i don't know what the hell you're on about in the first couple of sentences.. in relation to you derogating all of the 'superliberal'(and may i add valid) opinions of supporting palestinian human rights and holding israel accountable for it's reckless and brutal actions. poor israel, completely dominating the situation for decades(thanks uncle sam!), unable to understand the applicability of the term hypocrit.

[Smart]

[Obvious]

yea so anyhow' date=' i don't know what the hell you're on about in the first couple of sentences.. in relation to you derogating all of the 'superliberal'(and may i add valid) opinions of supporting palestinian human rights and holding israel accountable for it's reckless and brutal actions. poor israel, completely dominating the situation for decades(thanks uncle sam!), unable to understand the applicability of the term hypocrit.[/quote']

 

palestinians do deserve human rights. in fact, for the past several months the Israelis have been TRYING to make peace. withdrawing ALL of their settlements from the gaza strip, and trying to make Palestine an independent, sovereign nation -- but that keeps getting interrupted by suicide bombings, mortar attacks, and shootings by Hamas terrorists. they can't imagine peace because they live and breathe bloodshed. israel does all those measures to please the palestinians, and their terrorists still commit atrocities. as a result, under international law, israel has a right to strike back. israel should be held accountable for its actions, but at the same time we must recognize the fact that if terrorists weren't targeting israelis nonstop with brutal aggression, israel would have no need to strike back. israel is there, and the muslim extremists want the total destruction of israel. israel is there now, and i don't expect the entire population and the government to pack up and leave. so in the meantime, it would be great to see it work.

 

same with iraq -- i don't think the u.s. should have gone in there... but since we ARE there, it might as well make it work; have the government put in place, train the iraqi soldiers, build the schools, roads, hospitals, etc. would you agree? or would you want the insurgency to succeed, and see iraq be left in a state of chaos, violence, and anarchy? it would be a loss for the U.S.; but it would be an even greater loss for the iraqi people, since they are the ones living there.

[the.crooked]

See, that's the thing; The "peace" Isreal was trying to make in the Gaza strip, I think was more a strategic move to justify any further action against said area. They had to know things weren't gonna go all hunky dory. Especially if while "moving out" they were destroying infrastructure, etc.

 

I think it is way to simple a viewpoint to believe that they were whole heartedly interested in making everything better. Politics is way to complex to ever take things at surface value.

[!@#$%]

thing is, they probably were interested in making everything better: for themselves

too bad what works for one group of people won't work for another in geopolitrics

[!@#$%]

it is popping the FUCK off over there.

this could get huge

 

[angelofdeath]

 

*runs and takes cover*

[LIVERWURST*]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/14/israel.lebanon.timeline/index.html

CNN) -- The 1967 Arab-Israeli War and Jordan's 1970 crackdown on the Palestine Liberation Organization, following a coup attempt against King Hussein, drove large numbers of Palestinian refugees into Lebanon -- Yasser Arafat and the PLO among them.

Below is a timeline of significant events in the relationship among Israel, Lebanon and the Palestinians since then:

December 1968: Israeli commandos attack Beirut International Airport on December 28, 1968, damaging or destroying more than a dozen airplanes in retaliation for an attack on an Israeli civilian airplane at the airport in Athens, Greece. Two Palestinians were charged in the Athens attack that left an Israeli passenger dead.

November 1969: Lebanese army commander in chief Emile Bustani and Arafat sign an agreement in Cairo that recognizes the "Palestinian revolution" and allows Palestinians in Lebanon "to join in the armed struggle without undermining Lebanon's sovereignty and welfare." This agreement will stay in effect for nearly 20 years, until Lebanon rescinds it in May 1987.

1970-1971: Faced with fighting in Jordan that left thousands dead, the PLO moves its base to Lebanon, where it carries out raids on Israel. A Palestinian terrorist group linked to the PLO is formed. Its name is "Black September" -- a reference to the Jordanian crackdown on Palestinians in September 1970.

1972: Black September attacks the Israeli Olympic team during the games in Munich, Germany. After a struggle that left a coach and an athlete dead, the terrorists take nine Israeli athletes hostage, demanding the release of Palestinian prisoners in return for the hostages' release. Israel refuses, and a shootout between the attackers and West German authorities leaves all nine hostages, four terrorists and a policeman dead.

April 1973: Israeli elite commandos -- dressed as women and led by future Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak -- kill three PLO leaders in Beirut.

1975: Civil war breaks out in Lebanon, pitting Palestinians and pro-Palestinian Lebanese militias against Lebanon's Christian militias. The war would last nearly 15 years, officially ending in 1990.

1976: Syria sends military peacekeepers during the early months of the civil war to help end it. The troops would remain there nearly 30 years, until April 2005.

March 1978: A PLO attack on a bus in northern Israel prompts Israeli military forces to move into Lebanon to push the PLO back from the border. Israel withdraws after the U.N. Security Council passes a resolution for the immediate withdrawal of Israeli forces. Under the leadership of Lebanese army Maj. Saad Haddad, an Israeli ally, a 12-mile wide "security zone" is established to protect Israeli territory from cross-border attacks.

September 1978: The Camp David Accords, brokered by U.S. President Jimmy Carter, lead to a peace treaty between Israel and Egypt. The accords lay the groundwork for a similar treaty between Israel and Lebanon, as well as its other Arab neighbors.

July 17, 1981: Israeli forces bomb PLO headquarters in West Beirut, killing more than 300 civilians. The attack leads to a U.S.-brokered cease-fire between Israel, the PLO and Syria, whose troops were in Lebanon.

1982: The cease-fire lasts until June 6, 1982, when Israel invades Lebanon with about 60,000 troops in a push to destroy the PLO, after an assassination attempt on Israel's ambassador to Britain. Arafat and the PLO flee Lebanon in August and settle in Tunis, Tunisia, where they remain until moving to Gaza in 1994.

The Israel-backed Lebanese president-elect, Bashir Gemayel, is assassinated September 14, shortly before his inauguration. Israeli troops enter West Beirut a day later, and the following day, nearly 800 Palestinian refugees are massacred at the hands of Lebanese Christian militias in the Sabra and Shatila camps. Israel is accused of doing nothing to prevent or stop the massacre.

Hezbollah, a fundamentalist Shiite Muslim militant group, emerges as a force in Beirut, the Bekaa Valley and southern Lebanon. Sponsored by Iran, modeled after Iran's Revolutionary Guards and supported by Syria, Hezbollah aims to establish a Shiite Islamic state in Lebanon and force Western interests like Israel and the United States out of the region.

April 18, 1983: A suicide attack by Hezbollah on the U.S. Embassy in West Beirut kills 63 people, a harbinger of future attacks against U.S. and Western interests.

May 17, 1983: Lebanon and Israel sign a U.S.-brokered peace agreement, spelling out terms of Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon, conditional on the withdrawal of Syrian forces. Syria opposes the agreement.

October 23, 1983: A Hezbollah suicide bomber blows up the headquarters of U.S. Marine and French forces in Beirut, killing 298 people -- 241 of them U.S. Marines and other military personnel. U.S. troops are withdrawn from Lebanon a few months later.

January 18, 1984: American University of Beirut President Malcolm Kerr is assassinated.

March 1984: With pressure mounting from Syria, Lebanon cancels the May 17, 1983, peace agreement.

September 20, 1984: The U.S. Embassy annex in East Beirut is bombed, and 23 people are killed.

June 1985: Israel withdraws from most of Lebanon but keeps control of the 12-mile-wide security zone in the south. Israel remains there until May 2000.

1990: Lebanon's 15-year civil war officially ends.

July 1993: Israel attacks southern Lebanon in a weeklong operation aimed at ending Hezbollah attacks on Israeli towns.

April 1996: Israel and Hezbollah militants engage in a 16-day battle, in which at least 137 people, mostly Lebanese civilians, are killed.

May 2000: Israeli troops withdraw from southern Lebanon, and the United Nations establishes the "Blue Line" as a border between the two countries.

September 2003: Israeli warplanes hit southern Lebanon in response to Hezbollah's firing antiaircraft missiles at Israeli planes in the area.

October 2003: Israel and Lebanon exchange gunfire in the disputed area known as Shebaa Farms.

February 14, 2005: Former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri is assassinated. Pressure builds on Syria to withdraw its remaining troops from Lebanon, which it does in April.

July 2006: Hezbollah militants cross into Israel, kill three Israeli soldiers and kidnap two others in a bid to negotiate a prisoner exchange, a demand rebuffed by Israel. Another five Israeli soldiers are killed after the ambush. Israel responds with a naval blockade and by bombing hundreds of targets in Lebanon, including Beirut's airport and Hezbollah's headquarters in southern Beirut. Hezbollah responds with rocket attacks targeting northern Israeli cities. Fighting leaves dozens of Lebanese civilians dead and coincides with a two-week-old Israeli military campaign in Gaza in response to the kidnapping of an Israeli soldier by Palestinian militants.

[lord_casek]

WAR IS PEACE. WE NEED MORE WAR SO WE CAN HAVE MORE PEACE.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

israel is fucking it up. once they get done with the palestinians,

they're going after iran and syria. syria is groveling. it won't work.

china and russia will be involved soon.

 

the G8 is coming up. we'll see.

 

 

ladies and gentlemen, i present to you

 

 

 

and for the kids

[HardyHarHar]

It's so hard to have a real conversation about this. I believe that we need to allow Israel to protect her borders. Also, I read in the Times today that Israeli intelligence says that Hezbollah was urged by Iran to launch the attack so that attention would be drawn away from Iran's nuclear program.

[Larry Pubes]

israeli intel saying anything should be taken with a large granule of salt.

[fermentor666]

It seems like people are secretely hoping for an all-out war. Either for Israel to get rid of all the Arab terrorists and people who refuse to recognize them or for the Middle East to collectively destroy Israel.

 

I wish that they could all co-exist, peacefully. I think that too many of the pro-Palestine supporters do not give Israel enough credit for giving up Gaza. They unsettled thousands of Israeli's, demolishing their homes and businesses in order to move out of Gaza. And after years of conflict, they finally conceded. So really, how much will it take for people to hope for peace rather than the evacuation of either side? Gaza did not solve things, obviously, and everyone that was directly involved KNEW it wouldn't be the end of it. But it was a step in the right direction. Really, I want to know from the anti-Israel and pro-Palestinian crowd, do you want the Jews to get completely out of the Middle East forever? Yes or no, here. The Jews have been there for as long as the Muslims have and have been enslaved, killed, or kicked out. What's wrong in ensuring them a part of their heartland?

 

I'm not talking about "zionists" or anything, I'm talking about Hebrews. Yes or no.

[HardyHarHar]

I like the flame maker666's question. I for one am a fan of Israel. I don't like homogeny and I've heard that Jerusalem is the most diverse ciity in the region.

 

A friend of mine has an interesting perspective on the pro-Palestine/anti-Israel crowd: US foreign policy (and the media due to its marriage to the White House) has created a wall of propoganda that is unfairly biased towards Israel. Progressive minded people decide that the only fair responce to this is a loud as possible rant against Israel. In doing this, the justice minded pro-Palestinians lose their sense of balance and become propagadanists.