lord_casek Posted July 21, 2007 Author Share Posted July 21, 2007 Re: 9/11 was an inside job. Casek, I hate to reduce the argument to this, but... If you are so convinced this shit happened. Do something. We all remain complicit to the system so long as we live and move through it. Yes there is a mediation of values to action, particularly in a climate as stifling as american culture right now. But goddamn, if you really believe this stuff beyond a shadow of a doubt. Go fuckin nuts. Blow somethin up. Get on telivision. Preaching to us kids is far beyond anything useful. just trying to educate. and i have said it before and i will say it again, i am doing something about it. i write my reps, congressmen, etc. i call them, i fax them, etc. i support those who would have another, independent investigation. i also oppose the patriot act and similar laws and bills that would take away more of our freedoms in the name of protecting us. i write, call, whatever it takes to get my voice heard. sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted July 21, 2007 Author Share Posted July 21, 2007 Re: 9/11 was an inside job. DeFazio Denied. http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/118489654058910.xml&coll=7 COG worries me in a lot of ways. this worries me even more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NevaRespectKlownWeakToyz Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Re: 9/11 was an inside job. yall kept me glued to the screen and late for work remember 9/11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknown_urge Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Re: 9/11 was an inside job. the hot chicks said it... viva la america! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.crooked Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Re: 9/11 was an inside job. just trying to educate. and i have said it before and i will say it again, i am doing something about it. i write my reps, congressmen, etc. i call them, i fax them, etc. i support those who would have another, independent investigation. i also oppose the patriot act and similar laws and bills that would take away more of our freedoms in the name of protecting us. i write, call, whatever it takes to get my voice heard. sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't. i forgot you do that. fair enough. you know i agree about the patriot act, and other things though. you and me are mostly on the same page on things, but there are specifics that i disagree with you on. namely climate change, gun control, and most of the other really intense conspiracy stuff you're into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted July 21, 2007 Author Share Posted July 21, 2007 Re: 9/11 was an inside job. i forgot you do that. fair enough. you know i agree about the patriot act, and other things though. you and me are mostly on the same page on things, but there are specifics that i disagree with you on. namely climate change, gun control, and most of the other really intense conspiracy stuff you're into. no problem. yeah, we are on the same page about stuff, as for the conspiracy stuff....you knwo what scared the hell out of me? P2OG, the plans for civilian internment camps courtesy of FEMA, etc. that and seeing alex jones a couple of months before 9/11 saying that the NWO was going to blow up the twin towers and use bin laden as a scapegoat. i saw that and i was like "bah! fucking nutjob!" i honestly remember thinking that. then september 11th came and i was shocked. knocked back in my damn seat. since then, i've known alex jones is a straight up man with the truth. i've also come to realize there are some dark forces at work in our government. this is it. http://youtube.com/watch?v=FXJRg4Vh0kc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Mamerro Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Re: 9/11 was an inside job. I'm gonna merge this with the conclusive proof thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted July 21, 2007 Author Share Posted July 21, 2007 thank you mamerro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.crooked Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 nice call mams. i initially saw that it had been moved and was like "what other portion of this board wants to deal with this shit?" casek- yeah i remember you sendin me that clip a long time ago. i still do not quite know what to make of it. and yeah i agree there are "dark forces" but i tend to call it greed and lack of regard for the human life. pretty standard things displayed by humans, in my opinion at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Huxtable. Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Re: 9/11 was an inside job. no problem. yeah, we are on the same page about stuff, as for the conspiracy stuff....you knwo what scared the hell out of me? P2OG, the plans for civilian internment camps courtesy of FEMA, etc. that and seeing alex jones a couple of months before 9/11 saying that the NWO was going to blow up the twin towers and use bin laden as a scapegoat. i saw that and i was like "bah! fucking nutjob!" i honestly remember thinking that. then september 11th came and i was shocked. knocked back in my damn seat. since then, i've known alex jones is a straight up man with the truth. i've also come to realize there are some dark forces at work in our government. this is it. http://youtube.com/watch?v=FXJRg4Vh0kc i saw that video before. i didn't remember anything about alex jones saying that the world trade center would be blown up by the government and bin laden would be blamed. so i watched the video again to make sure. still didn't see it. where did he say this? jones only gave past examples (oklahoma city, '93 wtc bombing), and then cited hypothetical scenarios, saying if the government "let" a "TERRORIST GROUP" (which is not the NWO) blow up something, and then he gave an example "like the world trade center" -- then he would blame the government. that's not the same as saying the NWO would blow up the WTC and blame bin laden. and it's not really far-fetched to believe that the world trade center was a prime target for a terrorist. even i thought that before 2001. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell jones Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 nice call mams. i initially saw that it had been moved and was like "what other portion of this board wants to deal with this shit?" casek- yeah i remember you sendin me that clip a long time ago. i still do not quite know what to make of it. and yeah i agree there are "dark forces" but i tend to call it greed and lack of regard for the human life. pretty standard things displayed by humans, in my opinion at least. Exactly, there is no grand conspiracy necessary, just a bunch of people working in their own self interest and ignoring the needs of others. The film Syriana makes this point very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.crooked Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 it is just like the emergence shit we were talking about with consciousness. complex systems give rise to abstract entities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted July 22, 2007 Author Share Posted July 22, 2007 it is just like the emergence shit we were talking about with consciousness. complex systems give rise to abstract entities. i think you need to research the they that is them a little more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Huxtable. Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 it is just like the emergence shit we were talking about with consciousness. complex systems give rise to abstract entities. makes sense. crooked, what do you think is the psychological basis/stimulus that causes conspiracy theorists both conjur up conspiracies and flock to already-established conspiracies? i read up on this a few months ago, but would like to read other views. i typed out an excerpt from what i read, and saved it: "There are psychological explanations for why conspiracy theories are so seductive. Academics who study them argue that they meet the basic human need: to have the magnitude of any given effect be balanced by the magnitude of the cause behind it. A world in which tiny causes can have huge consequences feels scary and unreliable. Therefore a grand disaster like Sept. 11 needs a grand conspiracy behind it. 'We tend to associate major events -- a President or a princess dying -- with major causes,' says Patrick Leman, a lecturer in psychology at Royal Holloway University of London, who has conducted studies on conspiracy belief. 'If we think big events like a President being assassinated can happen at the hands of a minor individual, that points to the unpredictability and randomness of life and unsettles us.' In that sense, the idea that there is a malevolent controlling force orchestrating global events is, in a perverse way, comforting." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted July 22, 2007 Author Share Posted July 22, 2007 Re: 9/11 was an inside job. i saw that video before. i didn't remember anything about alex jones saying that the world trade center would be blown up by the government and bin laden would be blamed. so i watched the video again to make sure. still didn't see it. where did he say this? jones only gave past examples (oklahoma city, '93 wtc bombing), and then cited hypothetical scenarios, saying if the government "let" a "TERRORIST GROUP" (which is not the NWO) blow up something, and then he gave an example "like the world trade center" -- then he would blame the government. that's not the same as saying the NWO would blow up the WTC and blame bin laden. and it's not really far-fetched to believe that the world trade center was a prime target for a terrorist. even i thought that before 2001. he says it in the full video of that show Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoeWhan Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 9/11 was an inside job. Many, many other bombings were also 'false flag operations'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Huxtable. Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 Can you cite exact quotes where he said that the NWO would blow up the twin towers and would blame Bin Laden? He made vague arguments about the US either using terrorism, or allowing terrorists to attack and purposely not stopping them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted July 22, 2007 Author Share Posted July 22, 2007 Can you cite exact quotes where he said that the NWO would blow up the twin towers and would blame Bin Laden? He made vague arguments about the US either using terrorism, or allowing terrorists to attack and purposely not stopping them. i found a torrent for it, but no one is seeding. also found this reference http://clipmarks.com/clipmark/29FC8549-86C0-4733-BA1B-10E211F0B1A4/ i'll work on it, theo. i should upload it to google video or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.crooked Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 i think you need to research the they that is them a little more. it need not be a large population to fulfill the ideas im talkin about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Fuentes Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 .......wrong thread never mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell jones Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 makes sense. crooked, what do you think is the psychological basis/stimulus that causes conspiracy theorists both conjur up conspiracies and flock to already-established conspiracies? i read up on this a few months ago, but would like to read other views. i typed out an excerpt from what i read, and saved it: "There are psychological explanations for why conspiracy theories are so seductive. Academics who study them argue that they meet the basic human need: to have the magnitude of any given effect be balanced by the magnitude of the cause behind it. A world in which tiny causes can have huge consequences feels scary and unreliable. Therefore a grand disaster like Sept. 11 needs a grand conspiracy behind it. 'We tend to associate major events -- a President or a princess dying -- with major causes,' says Patrick Leman, a lecturer in psychology at Royal Holloway University of London, who has conducted studies on conspiracy belief. 'If we think big events like a President being assassinated can happen at the hands of a minor individual, that points to the unpredictability and randomness of life and unsettles us.' In that sense, the idea that there is a malevolent controlling force orchestrating global events is, in a perverse way, comforting." I think this psychologist is dead on. The world is a confusing, random, and unpredictable place. Conspiracy theories actually are generally quite simplistic, even if they seem convoluted sometimes. They put order into a world that has none. They function in a similar way to organized religion, especially when accompanied by fundamentalist dogma. The conspiracy functions as a religious dogma, answer questions that cannot be answered. As crook was talking about in his post, these things seem like conspiracies because all of these people working with different agendas create an almost living idea that people can reference. It evolves as it bounces back and forth between like minded (and not like-minded) individuals. Nobody has to meet in some secret underground bunker to plan world domination, it just happens through the natural actions of self interested individuals. It's so complex, nobody could plan it even if they wanted to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.crooked Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 I think russel covered what my response would be. Does anyone remember a couple months or maybe a year ago when I was ranting about how our population has gotten to the point where we are playing out abstract entities through the associations and jobs we have in our lives? Same shit here. As we develope more and more complexe social interactions (economics, specialization of fields, government, instutional advancement, etc.) we will begin to see abstract ideals play out as if they were organized in such a manner as we are discussin in conspiracy theories. Greed and avarice is a corporation. A tragedy of the commons in which singular people play a role in an abstractly living entity. It does nothing but acquire wealth with no philanthropic aims in mind. The corporation as a legal and abstract being has no wish for self propogation and in such is the case acts wholely seperate to the main cause of life and continuation of its constituent parts. I know I have said this before, but we act like little parts of the body, our respective jobs, doing this or that, traveling in little closed membranes along concrete arteries. Because we are an animal capable of abstract creation, it seems inevitable that we, when seen from another level or two of abstraction, are creating something more than us. These conspiracy theories are evidence of that just as much as corporations being treated like actual people when they are made up of such is as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell jones Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 I think russel covered what my response would be. Does anyone remember a couple months or maybe a year ago when I was ranting about how our population has gotten to the point where we are playing out abstract entities through the associations and jobs we have in our lives? Same shit here. As we develope more and more complexe social interactions (economics, specialization of fields, government, instutional advancement, etc.) we will begin to see abstract ideals play out as if they were organized in such a manner as we are discussin in conspiracy theories. Greed and avarice is a corporation. A tragedy of the commons in which singular people play a role in an abstractly living entity. It does nothing but acquire wealth with no philanthropic aims in mind. The corporation as a legal and abstract being has no wish for self propogation and in such is the case acts wholely seperate to the main cause of life and continuation of its constituent parts. I know I have said this before, but we act like little parts of the body, our respective jobs, doing this or that, traveling in little closed membranes along concrete arteries. Because we are an animal capable of abstract creation, it seems inevitable that we, when seen from another level or two of abstraction, are creating something more than us. These conspiracy theories are evidence of that just as much as corporations being treated like actual people when they are made up of such is as well. I fear this, and I often talk about these ideas with others, but I know as I get older, it may happen if I am not vigilant. That's why make a concerted effort to make a jump from one artery to the next... expand ideas, take the useless seriously, like something real dumb, like my odd obsession with baseball stats. Anything to skip the tracks and fly free. It may be just a rationalization for lack of focus or even laziness, but it seems to be making me happy so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRUNKEN-ASSHOLE-ONER Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 what do you think is the psychological basis/stimulus that causes conspiracy theorists both conjur up conspiracies and flock to already-established conspiracies?[/i] A demand for the truth when you're obviously being lied too. By bad liers at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanfullofretards Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 Are you smarter than Noam Chomsky? 9/11 Conspiracy theorist gets schooled Penn & Teller - 9/11 Conspiracy Theories http://www.debunking911.com Are any of these links going to persuade you nuts to think any different? Probably not. Just like many devout christians you fail to accept or even look at aaaalllll the evidence against your claims. **PS.. I have watched that Alex Jones thing so don't throw that shit at me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.crooked Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 noam chomsky is funny to see speak in person. so monotone. brilliant, but a horrible speaker. i was just glad i was blazed enough to ignore all the morbidly old people around me and pay attention to what he was saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.crooked Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 I fear this, and I often talk about these ideas with others, but I know as I get older, it may happen if I am not vigilant. That's why make a concerted effort to make a jump from one artery to the next... expand ideas, take the useless seriously, like something real dumb, like my odd obsession with baseball stats. Anything to skip the tracks and fly free. It may be just a rationalization for lack of focus or even laziness, but it seems to be making me happy so far. My allusion of concrete arteries was about the massive highway systems we have. But I agree with you about not getting stuck in ruts and being aware of yourself in what your thinking and how that is being influenced by other people and events in one's life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted July 23, 2007 Author Share Posted July 23, 2007 Are you smarter than Noam Chomsky?[/url] 9/11 Conspiracy theorist gets schooled Penn & Teller - 9/11 Conspiracy Theories http://www.debunking911.com Are any of these links going to persuade you nuts to think any different? Probably not. Just like many devout christians you fail to accept or even look at aaaalllll the evidence against your claims. **PS.. I have watched that Alex Jones thing so don't throw that shit at me. what did you learn from it? anything new? anything that made you think? i'm not a follower of chomsky. not an exact quote from him, but i heard a speech he gave where he said "so what if the government did do it? it doesn't matter anyway." i completely disagree with that. also, i don't think it was the government. i think it was agencies inside the gov. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Huxtable. Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 i recall noam chomsky admitting that he's a boring speaker. and he is. he said people like him for the information and not exactly his elocution and delivery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_casek Posted July 23, 2007 Author Share Posted July 23, 2007 i recall noam chomsky admitting that he's a boring speaker. and he is. he said people like him for the information and not exactly his elocution and delivery that can be said of alot of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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