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The Man with the Answers

first haditha, now this (baby killers thread)

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one question. y did you say "may"? more like did.

violence looks good now, but peace will be the only way in the end

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I'm not justifying this by any means, but there are many Iraqis who are killing dozens of innocent civilians every day in Iraq.

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it's war.

innocent people are going to be executed.

not a shock at all. still super fucked though.

 

 

 

i saw a clip from one of the army's 'morality training' classes or whatever they are calling it

the instructor says

'an ied goes off and kills the driver of the humvee in front of you.

he's been incinerated

you can seee his charred hands still gripping the steering wheel

are you gonna just open up with oyur 50 cal on all the surrounding houses?

 

..well that isn't the proper reaction'

 

 

 

so fucked.

we never should have gone in there ever ever ever.

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yea, i was just reading about this. lovely. the thing i don't get is why are marines out doing patrols and shit? shouldn't that be handled by some other force like the army? i always thought marines were the guys you called in when you needed to kill everything in sight..

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yup, we went and invaded a country, then disbanded their army and central infrastructure.

 

now marines are artilleried-police., and yeah, still the guys you call when you want it all dead, like, yesterday

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last time i checked, they weren't trained to win hearts and minds

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so is that all the marines are, trained monkees, whatever happen to free will and indidivual choice in our secular democracy?

 

 

but the truth of the matter is, is that if your murdering the people you are liberating, it don't look good. Kinda like if the Americans arivved at Aushwitz and decided to kill all the remaining jews in the camp to "liberate" them

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dear liberal ass wipes grow a dick and hop off president bushes one... try for once to support america not some third world shithole like iraq you guys might think its cool to hate bush because green day told you to. but really it got old after he won the election........again.

oh and by the way these so called civilans these are the people that in the day shake your hand but at night try to kill you

 

and if your from canada dont bother replying to this cause its a waste of my time

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"so is that all the marines are, trained monkees, whatever happen to free will and indidivual choice in our secular democracy?"

 

first off, individualism would be totally destroyed in a true "secular" democracy. give me a limited constitutional republic any day to protect individual rights.

 

and you guys are splitting hairs with what i said...

i was responding to what was said above about marines "only being used to destroy everything." i was just trying to relay that marines are trained for more jobs than just blowing everything up. i never defended or pointed fingers at marines for this incident.

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i love it when people say 'war is war', therefore everything is acceptable, so shut up. it's the fucking stupidest argument ever.

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yea who the fuck cares, the last alleged mass killing by american soldiers was unfounded. The terrorists most likely went in shortly after the marines left, shot and killed all of them to make it look like it was the marines who did it. terrorists kill innocent civilians daily so my theory may not be that far off.

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i like the war is war argument. i mean really is war "legal?" my only problem is... we dont see anyone trying to "convict" the guys we are fighting in iraq for "improper war play."

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how can you have 'improper war play' when the invasion itself is illegal aggression predicated on hoodwinking the US population with complete fabrications? in a totalitarian system, the dictator says 'we're going to war' and everybody marches...

i don't see much of a difference with the iraq war and now the inevitable attack on iran.

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Of course we are trying to enforce the law. The problem is that when we become corrupt ourselves, and succumb to hate crimes, cover our own tracks and brush accusations aside, we have essentially marginalized the people we are supposed to be helping to liberate. It's small wonder that popular sentiment in Iraq is against us when incidents like this occur.

There is a problem with lawlessness within the military. Not so much lawlessness but a sense that one is above the law. Some people develop some serious god complexes. It's well known in the military that the military is not very good at regulating itself. I think an independent investigative service inside the military is a good idea, because it's a classic case of too many chiefs and not enough indians. It is so autonomous, I have often likened it to the old west. Corruption is nearly systemic, and it requires a great amount of effort to root it out. Often to the point of needing the help of civilian authorities, congressmen, and senators. Because of this, I would say that 99% of cases are not adequately addressed, or are suppressed and handled within a small circle with negligable consequences, if they are even addressed at all.

So yes, we all know the terrorists are supposed to be the bad guys, but we are supposed to be the good guys.

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"how can you have 'improper war play' when the invasion itself is illegal aggression predicated on hoodwinking the US population with complete fabrications?"

 

again... maybe we are dealing with semantics but really... what war is "legal?" whose laws are we to use? maybe you are saying the iraq war isnt justified? in my opinion the iraq was was not totally justified, however, congress voted to put troops in iraq. if congress voted to put 500,000 troops in canada for no reason, it would be legal but it wouldnt be justified.

 

so the issue is we have armed forced in iraq, by "democratic" vote in a democratically controlled congress. (at the time) some marines killed civilians. they should be tried, etc etc. my point is.. who the fuck is trying the insurgents for "illegal" war moves? im just saying.. instead of just going back to "the iraq invasion is illegal" just remember congress voted to put troops over there. so it is "legal" according to our law. maybe not justified morally, but it is legal. if it was up to the UN everyone would be disarmed, only the "bad guys" would have arms, and no country would be able to defend themselves. im just confused as to what exactly makes a war "legal" in the world today.

 

consider when was the last time we actually declared war... ww2? everything after was essentially "police actions." it was logical progression. FDR concentrated more power in the executive than any other president. using the police action card was the next logical step, and truman did it in korea.

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I USED TO CARE ABOUT IRAQ, AND FEEL SORRY ABUOT ALL THESE HADJIS GETTING KILLED AND HOW WE ARE FUCKING UP THEIR COUNTRY....BUT NOW I SAY FUCK EM ALL.......ITS THEIR OWN GOD DAMN FAULT THAT SHIT ISNT WORKING IN IRAQ. JUST BECAUSE SOME SHIITE FAGGOT CANT GET ALONG WITH SOME SUNNI FAGGOT, WHEN ITS ALL THE SAME RETARDED ASS RELIGION.

 

 

FUCK IT.....I HOPE IRAQ JUST DISSAPEARS OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH

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it's not 'semantics', there are definitions and legalities involved and without them you have a free for all planet. you could argue 'semantics' when dealing with war crimes too, but there is an actual definition with legal ramifications. regardless, the invasion was illegal under international law. tell the iraqi's that congress voted for it, therefore it's legal. it's also completely unjustified under the pretext that was foisted on the world. now i understand that international law doesn't mean shit to the US, since that would mean the US is subordinate to a higher power and would hamper it's role as the defacto aggressor keeping every country in it's place and pliable to it's will, but that doesn't mean it's justifiable or legal.

a 'legal' and 'justified' war would be one that:

a)the overwhelming population of the host country agrees with and wants it's leader removed through bombing campaigns by a foreign country,

b)the overwhelming population of the aggresor country agrees with putting it's sons and daughters in a grave war situation overseas,

c)the international consensus overwhelmingly supports the action

 

all 3 of these did not happen, and in fact any deviation from the propaganda line was met with smear campaigns and unbelievable belligerance.

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"now i understand that international law doesn't mean shit to the US,"

 

see.. i if you really understand this then your argument has no weight. fuck international law. we are SOVEREIGN country.

henceforth, your defination of a legal and just war does not apply to anyone else because every country has thier own definition of a legal and just war. in the US the war was voted on by congress. so it is legal. it is not justified because iraq is not a vital US interest or threat. the only time US forces should be used is when we are invaded or when a vital US interest is at stake and we have to defend our rights, lives or property. we have no business policing the world. we have no business supporting a war because the international community does. and we have no business aiding foreign countries or intervening in any others countries affairs beside our own. friendship and commerce with all nations, entanglings alliances with none.

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