Da Vinci Code

[DEE38]

I liked the movie too.. it was pretty "cool" like what crusty mike said. but then again i haven't read more than a few chapters of the book so i know it could of made a big difference on how i liked the movie or not. but overall it was a good movie! I liked it alot.

 

ps... if there was children of jesus, ive always pictured them looking like these kids above.

 

according to hollywood this is what she looks like ^

[villain]

The Bible and history

 

Still at the time of Constantine the Great, only 10% of the Roman Empire were Christian. During this time Eusebius records, by the authority of a list written by Irenaeus in the first part of the second century, it is decided there are only four gospels which have preserved the true apostolic tradition. The many other gospels that exist are Gnostic heresy and false. The whole collection of books which constituted the New Testament is still not finalized and canonized (See: the Muratorian fragment) until 1545 at the Council of Trent.

 

Historicity of Christian beliefs

 

The historicity, teachings and nature of Jesus are currently debated among Biblical scholars. The earliest New Testament texts which refer to him, Paul's letters, are usually dated from the mid-first century. Paul himself had seen Jesus only in visions; but he claimed they were divine revelations and hence authoritative. Most modern scholars hold that the works describing Jesus (primarily the Gospel accounts) were initially communicated by oral tradition and were not finally committed to writing until several decades after the crucifixion. It is therefore believed that these texts may not have retained the same level of historical accuracy as they might have, had they been direct first-hand accounts actually written during or soon after the life of Jesus. At the other end of the spectrum are Christian historians who have been very favorable to the Christian claim of the resurrection - scholars such as Thomas Arnold [8], A. N. Sherwin-White [9][10], and Michael Grant. [11][12][13] The exact level of the historical accuracy contained in these texts is debated, however most scholars agree that the actual existence of a historical Jesus is probable.

 

Historicity of Christian traditions

 

Some scholars maintain the Jesus we know from the Bible today has many elements that come from the mystery cults.

 

It has been suggested that this process of assimilation is similar to the way in which peoples in Latin America and Africa have often incorporated elements of their traditional faiths into their newly-adopted Christianity. The New Testament (written in Greek) indicates that the largest amount of early Christians came from the conversion of pagan gentiles. They retained many of their religious practices, singing, the playing of music, art etc. It is recorded pagan art took on alternate interpretations, especially in the fourth centuries.

 

They also point out that even in European traditions, such fundamentals as the traditional celebrations of the date of Jesus' birth (midnight 24 December) and resurrection (Easter) are taken from pre-existing pagan practices (the winter solstice and the fertility rites of the goddess Eostre). Still these are not adopted, or known to be practiced by Christians till the second century.

 

Followers of the "mythicist" school of thought, most noteably Earl Doherty, argue that the earliest Christians, including Paul, did not believe in an earthly Jesus and that the Gospels were originally allegorical stories in the same vein as Jewish Midrashic fables built from imagery taken from Old Testament verses.

 

Christ and Mithra

 

Similarities to Christianity

 

According to Martin A. Larson, in The Story of Christian Origins (1977), Mithraism and Christianity derived from the same sources, originally from the savior cult of Osiris: a rarely discussed view among Mithraic and Christian scholars but which allegedly accounts for the similarities without assuming a Christian deriviation from Mithraism or vise versa. He also believes that the Essenes were Jewish Pythagoreans, whose members not only gave birth to Christianity as Essenes, but were directly influenced by Zoroastrian doctrine as Pythagoreans — a view which is not shared by any other scholars studying the Essenes. Mithraism, in Larson's view, was an established but exclusive sect devoted to social justice, and was assimilated by state-sponsored Christianity before being disposed of in name.

 

"The resemblances between the two churches were so striking as to impress even the minds of antiquity" (Cumont, 193). Like Origen (an early Christian writer and in this respect a peculiarity among the other patrsitic writers), Mithraism held that all souls pre-existed in the ethereal regions with God, and inhabited a body upon birth. Similar to Pythagorean, Jewish, and Pauline theology, life then becomes the great struggle between good and evil, spirit and body, ending in judgment, with the elect being saved. "They both admitted to the existence of a heaven inhabited by beautiful ones. . .and a hell peopled by demons situate in the bowels of earth" (Cumont 191).

 

Both religions used the rite of baptism, and each participated in an outwardly similar type of sacrament, bread and wine. Both the birth of Mithra and the birth of Christ have been celebrated on December 25th, although nowhere does the Bible claim that Christ was born on this day. Both Mithra and Christ were supposedly visited by shepherds and Magi. Both Mithraism and Christianity considered Sunday their holy day, though for different reasons. Many have noted that the title of Pope (father) is found in Mithraic doctrine and seemingly prohibited in Christian doctrine. The words Peter (rock) and mass (sacrament) have significance in Mithraism.

 

Mithraism and early Christianity considered abstinence, celibacy, and self-control to be among their highest virtues, though Judaism did as well. Both had similar beliefs about the world, destiny, heaven and hell, and the immortality of the soul. Their conceptions of the battles between good and evil were similar (though Mithraism was more dualistic[1]), including a great and final battle at the end of times. Mithraism's flood at the beginning of history was deemed necessary because what began in water would end in fire, according to Mithraic eschatology. Both religions believed in revelation as key to their doctrine, as do most religions. Both awaited the last judgment and resurrection of the dead. Christ and Mithra were both referred to as the "Logos" (Larson 184), a term meaning the divine "Word" or "Reason" and first used in this sense by the Jewish philosopher Philo in the second-century BCE.

 

When inducted into the degree of Leo, he was purified with honey, and baptised, not with water, but with fire, as John the Baptist declared that his successor would baptise. After this second baptism, initiates were considered "participants," and they received the sacrament of bread and wine commemorating Mithra's banquet at the conclusion of his labors (Larson 190).

 

Although the cult of Mithra rivaled Christianity in Rome, they were among different social classes. Mithra was popular among soldiers and nobles after four centuries of growth. Mithraism had a disadvantage to Christian populism by barring women and emphasizing the elitist nature of the belief (being in the latter respect closer to Gnosticism than Christianity). Under emperors like Julian and Commodus, Mithra became the patron of Roman armies (Cumont 87). Christians, however, referred to themselves as soldiers of Christ. They venerated Jesus by calling him Light of the World or Son of Righteousness. Christians also claimed their savior's death was marked by a solar eclipse. Sunday became the primary day of worship for Christians, despite observing the Jewish Sabbath for centuries.

 

Mithra's birthday was adopted by Christians in the 4th century A.D. as the birth of Christ (J. Smith 146). Some claimed Mithra's mother was a mortal virgin. Others said Mithra had no mother, but was miraculously born of a female rock, or the petra genetix, conceived by God's lightning (de Riencourt 135). Mithra's birth was witnessed by shepherds and by Magi bearing gifts to his sacred birth-cave of the Rock (J. Smith 146). Mithra's image was buried in a rock tomb, a sacred cave that represented his Mother's womb. This was ritualistically removed each year, and he was said to live again. Mithra's triumph and ascension to heaven were celebrated during the spring equinox, as during Easter, when the sun rises toward its apogee.

 

Mithra performed miracles of raising the dead, healing the sick, making the blind see, the lame walk, and casting out devils. As a Peter, son of the petra (rock), he carried the "keys" to the kingdom of heaven, as St. Peter is said to have the keys to the gates of Heaven (H. Smith 129). Before returning to heaven, Mithra had his Last Supper with his twelve disciples, who represented the twelve signs of the zodiac. In memory, his worshipers partook of a sacramental meal of bread marked with a cross (Hooke 89, Cumont 160). This was one of seven Mithraic sacraments, alleged to be the models for the Christian seven sacraments (James 250). It was called mized and in Latin missa, meaning "to be released", and in later ecclesiastical Latin, "Mass".[2]

 

Mithra's cave-temple on the Vatican Hill was seized by Christians in 376 A.D. (J. Smith 146). Later Christian bishops in Rome pre-empted even the Mithraic high priest's title of Pater Patrum, which became Papa, or Pope (H. Smith 252). Gregory I, in the sixth-century, was the first Christian bishop on record who used the title of himself. Mithraism entered into many doctrines of the Manichean Gnostic sect of Christianity (which was condemned as heretical), and continued to influence its old rival for over a thousand years (Cumont, Oriental 154)). The Mithraic festival of Epiphany, marking the arrival of sun-priests ("Magi") at the Savior's birthplace, was adopted by the Christian church only as late as 813 A.D. (Brewster 55).

 

It is possible, even likely, that Christianity emphasized common features that attracted Mithra followers, perhaps the crucifix appealed to those Mithra followers who had crosses already branded on their foreheads. In art, the halo was a well-known depiction of Mithra, a true sun-god, but which also depicts Christ in a similar way. However, differences such as prognostication by star gazing were regarded as heretical by Christians according to Halakaic sanctions.

 

Justin Martyr, in a discussion with the Jewish apologist Trypho, wrote: "'And when those who record the mysteries of Mithras say that he was begotten of a rock, and call the place where those who believe in him are initiated a cave, do I not perceive here that the utterance of Daniel, that a stone without hands was cut out of a great mountain, has been imitated by them, and that they have attempted likewise to imitate the whole of Isaiah's words? For they contrived that the words of righteousness be quoted also by them. . . . And when I hear, Trypho,' said I, 'that Perseus was begotten of a virgin, I understand that the deceiving serpent counterfeited also this.'" (Dialogue with Trypho, LXXVIII). Tertullian also demonized Mithraism as a perverted truth planted by the devil.

[loafybrown]

If you have developed a healthy skepticism to not beleive institutionalized christianity and it's propagandized socio-political underpinnings' date=' you have a healthy skepticism of any "antichrist" claiming to be the 2nd coming. You are also skeptical of G W Bush's claims of being chosen by God and performing the will of God. If anyone fits the antichrist stereotype it's our very own president that "faithful" and "true" christians are so proud of. But with a 32% approval rating I think it's safe to say that all but the most fundamental believers in the right wing party line have had their faith shaken by this man. True gnostics are far from being gullible trend followers.[/quote']

 

many people will come pretending to be of Christ but aren't of Him.

 

Satan is coming first pretending to be Jesus returning.

 

Mark Chapter 13

[Weapon X]

That's exactly the sort of thing I was talking about' date=' how pieces of the puzzle are pushed underground in order to create a different picture that suits certain interests. I'm glad this has finally come to light. Judas must have been particularly tortured. I believe he eventually hung himself.[/quote']

 

 

Especially when you've got a ton of fanatics who, because they're fanatics, can't open their mind the slightest bit, even if the fact that many other gospels exist is staring them in the face.

 

Like, these dudes know they aren't reading the whole truth (and if it ain't the whole truth, it might as well be a lie), and they know the truth is out there, and they know that their inner theologian would probably do well in researching, but, nope - they say screw it. The New Testament's word is bond, and and that's all there is to it. American Christians, to me, come off as the worst of this lot.

[villain]

Whoops it did post.

[pornbooth]

http://www.thegodmovie.com/clip-JesusBeginMyth.php <-- dope documentary on the jesus myth

[villain]

I'm quite familiar with christian eschatology loafybrown. I think Bush uses it to help him sleep at night after he's destructed the world. That or he's just plain evil.

 

You are quite right Weapon XXX. We have quite alot of christian fundamentalists in the US here. I can understand that people need to believe in something, feel acceptance, belonging, comfortable familiarity, hope, understanding. We can have all that without being fundamentalists.

 

Christians believe.

 

Gnostics know.

 

That is the meaning of gnosis after all. To know. I find it much easier to believe when I know.

[Guest R@ndomH3ro]

I'm quite familiar with christian eschatology loafybrown. I think Bush uses it to help him sleep at night after he's destructed the world. That or he's just plain evil.

 

You are quite right Weapon XXX. We have quite alot of christian fundamentalists in the US here. I can understand that people need to believe in something, feel acceptance, belonging, comfortable familiarity, hope, understanding. We can have all that without being fundamentalists.

 

Christians believe.

 

Gnostics know.

 

That is the meaning of gnosis after all. To know. I find it much easier to believe when I know.

 

 

 

I am with Villian

[Weapon X]

I feel like I'm more of a Gnostic by being an agnostic..ha.

[pornbooth]

the early gnostics that didnt believe in jesus as a physical man were silenced....hmmm....makes you wonder what the christians were hiding...

[Guest R@ndomH3ro]

the early gnostics that didnt believe in jesus as a physical man were silenced....hmmm....makes you wonder what the christians were hiding...

 

 

Gold

[guerillaeye]

" In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. Most people believe the universe was created by some sort of God, although the Jetrivartid people of Viltvodle IV believe the universe was sneezed into existance by a being known as The Great Green Arklesiezure. The Jetrivartids, who are small blue creatures with over 50 arms each who are unique in being the only civilization ever who invented aeresol deoderant before the wheel, live in costant fear of a time the call. "The Coming of the Great White Hankerchief."

 

G

 

You know, this makes total since to me.

 

<-- guerilla thinks our existance is stuck to chewing-gum on the bottom of someones sneeker"

[rental]

I found it funny that people protest this, when Dan Brown has obviously stated it's not anti-religion. Stated that it's a work of Fiction. All he said was that Opus Dei was real, Priory of Scion was real, and that there are some people that really think this is true.

 

i think he does present the book as fiction, but still personally believes the theories in it.

[Graffitispot.com]

that movie sux

[THANKYOU]

excellent movie

[SUR X3]

He can believe whatever the fuck he wants to believe. That's the good part about being human. Just like you Christians can sit there and believe all of us free thinkers are going to hell for having our own mind, and using it...

 

You know hat, the only prove I would need to make me question my faith is that George W. Bush is a devout Christian. Do you really want to be in the same group as racist piece of daddys boy hobag? I wouldnt .

[SUR X3]

Shit sorry about all the typos and misspellings. I wrote that on my little pocketpc and it didn't connect fast enough to let me edit it. I feel ashamed.

[madsencarl]

i am actually really exctied about this film. i just read the book, and while I dont take it as fact like a ton of people do, i think it's an awsome theory, idea, story.

 

so...uh...

 

what do you think, and post yer movie opinions here.

are you gonna see it with your cousin?

[fatalist]

regardless if the movie was 2hours and some minutes long it was very fast paced. IMO.

nevertheless the movie was good, the book was better.

[villain]

I saw this on memorial day. I thought it was excellent. Then again I haven't read the book. And the Priory of Sion is hott. That's enough to make me happy. That is all.

[Jackson]

not to sound like a doosh

I worked on the movie, it was fun.

 

Did anyone else notice it was out of focus most of the time?

And Paul Bettany was amazing.

[MAR]

Do you read Aramaic? I dont think its been translated yet

 

im still waiting on the link...

[HardyHarHar]

what a load of crap

[26SidedCube]

The Da Vinci Code and Behold a Pale Horse were decent books with some ideas worth CONSIDERING. Outside of that I'd rather have nothing to do with the conspiracy-theory nuts that take this shit as dogma.

[ClueTwo]

I just finished the book in two days, great read..

 

I would like to see the movie, but will definitely wait for DVD..

[Guest R@ndomH3ro]

im still waiting on the link...

 

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/lostgospel/_pdf/GospelofJudas.pdf?fs=www7.nationalgeographic.com&fs=magma.nationalgeographic.com

[ClueTwo]

I decided to see the movie last night, and I felt like it did NOT do the book justice. I was probably way over critical, but I can't imagine Dan Brown being happy..Who knows? Maybe he like the idea of an alternate ending...pfft..