the immigration thread.

[B10N1X]

i could give a fuck less if you read it or not you and the other guy can go suck each others dicks for all i care seriously im satisfied with the fact that some people took time out of their own lives and despite their own feelings on punctuation and grammer and were able to look beyond our programming to at least give my writings a chance so yea i dont give a shyt and now go fuck yourself..........

[Dawood]

don't play with B1On1x......B1On1x has a posse.

 

viva LA RAZA!

 

we don't play that

[Smart]

Bush to Propose Guard Troops for Border

WASHINGTON (AP)

 

 

In a move designed to win support for immigration reform from get-tough conservatives, President Bush plans to send thousands of National Guard troops to help secure the Mexican border.

 

Bush, in a speech to the nation Monday evening, will propose using the troops as a stopgap measure while the Border Patrol builds up its resources to more effectively secure the 2,000-mile line between the U.S. and Mexico, said two White House officials speaking on a condition of anonymity before the president is scheduled to speak at 8 p.m. EDT.

 

In a signal of the high stakes on the issue, Bush was to make his case in a rare prime-time address from the Oval Office. He planned to follow up the address with a visit Thursday to the border in Arizona.

 

The broadcast networks ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox and the cable networks Fox News Channel, CNN and MSNBC planned live coverage of the speech.

 

Bush is to call for the troops to play a supportive role to Border Patrol agents, who would maintain primary responsibility for physically guarding the border. Bush also will mention the need for immigrants to learn English and assimilate into American culture if they are to become citizens.

 

But lawmakers have expressed concern about overextending a National Guard force that is already tied up in Iraq. And Mexican President Vicente Fox called Bush Sunday to express concern about what he called the possibility of a "militarized" border between the two nations.

 

On Monday, White House counselor Dan Bartlett said the move does not represent "a militarization of the borders."

 

Appearing on CBS's "The Early Show," Bartlett said Guard forces sent to the area "will not have law enforcmeent responsibilities or powers. They will be there in a supportive role. ... It's about a constitutional responsibility to enforce our borders."

White House spokeswoman Maria Tamburri had said earlier that Bush made clear to Fox that "the United States considered Mexico a friend and that what is being considered is not militarization of the border, but support of border capabilities on a temporary basis by the National Guard."

 

Bush also assured Fox that any military support would be administrative and logistical and would come from the National Guard and not the Army, according to a news release from Fox's office.

 

Bush hopes adding the National Guard troops to make the border more secure will persuade congressional conservatives to approve a broader immigration bill that would include his primary objective - creating temporary work permits for foreigners to enter the country and take low-paying jobs. That idea is favored by the business community, but many conservatives want a tougher approach on illegal immigrants trying to sneak into the country.

 

The officials who discussed Bush's proposal would not say how many troops he wanted to use, except that it would be in the thousands but less than 10,000 - an estimate being discussed at the Pentagon.

 

About 100 National Guard troops are serving on the border to assist with counter-drug operations, heavy equipment support and other functions. Some lawmakers say an increase is unwise.

 

"We've got National Guard members on their second, third and fourth tours in Iraq," said Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Neb. "We have stretched our military as thin as we have ever seen it in modern times. And what in the world are we talking about here, sending a National Guard that we may not have any capacity to send up to or down to protect borders? That's not their role."

 

Hagel said the bill under debate in the Senate that he helped write would double the 12,000-strong Border Patrol force over the next five years. "That's the way to fix it, not further stretching the National Guard," he said on ABC's "This Week."

 

Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del., said there may be a need for troops to fill in while the Border Patrol is bolstered. But he did not seem confident that the National Guard could take on the extra duty.

 

"We have stretched these men and women so thin, so thin, because of the bad mistakes done by the civilians in the military here, that I wonder how they're going to be able to do it," Biden said, also on ABC.

 

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., defended Bush's plan. He said lawmakers who doubt that the National Guard could take on border patrol duty are "whining" and "moaning."

 

"We've got to secure our borders," Frist said on CNN. "We hear it from the American people. We've got millions of people coming across that border. First and foremost, secure the border, whatever it takes. Everything else we've done has failed. We've got to face that. And so we need to bring in, I believe, the National Guard."

[angelofdeath]

holy shit.

[B10N1X]

let them build their walls and watch when many Americans want to flee to Mexico to avoid being bombed in by Iran Mexico will remind them of the Giant Invisible wall they put up and no one will be allowed to cross and will be shot dead on the spot i mean this can go both ways right so let it let them get a taste of their own medicine you see in many cases when things go bad here people migrate to other countries it the natural order of things migration and when we put a stop to migration we set ourselves up to be destroyed that's what i think for me it not a race issue more then it is a an issue having to do with our entire human race.....so will there be walls along the Canadian border i mean this whole thing was a terrorist prevention plan but its turned into an illegal Mexican immigrant plan i still dont get why they keep switching the story up and the reasons for putting this wall up i mean i see many inconsistencies in the reasons why they wish to do this and that's becasue our Government is so fucken corrupt its not even funny anymore its deadly

[angelofdeath]

the government isnt putting up any walls. if anything the minuteman are putting up walls on certain parts of the border on private land.

 

i read the whole article above again and did some more searching today. its a political ploy. they might be sending national guardsmen to the border, but in supportive rolls (ie. desk jobs, maintenance jobs etc) and will not be armed or doing any patrolling.

its soley to get the anti open border republicans to support amnesty.

 

the only 2 arguments i can see in support of having "open" borders is on a pure ideological basis that you dont want the central state to have enough power to patrol its borders and that with true free trade, labor should move like goods, easily over a countries borders. another is if you need to get out of the country, you should be able to get out as quick as possible... ie. build the wall, it keeps you in just like it keeps people out. however, i dont buy either. the reasons to restrict illegal immigration outweigh every argument for open borders 20 to 1.

[the.crooked]

I would just like to insert this idea into the discussion. Does not the possible use of national gaurd as a supplement police force further incredulate the protections we have made in our own government to prevent such? In 1878 we set out to make sure that the executive branch does not have the right to use military force to execute domestic policy, unless specifically heralded by the congress or constitution. Regardless of the actual role that the national guard will play in protecting the boarder, the fact that it is on paper as presidence of using Military Force as as police force allows for such future acts as the smothering of dissention against executive desicions among the american public through military force. I am not contending that this is the short term goal of the administration, but thing about the long term implications of such a thing.

 

 

A while ago I was on infowars and found something that relates to this quite well. While I don't ever really read too much into what Alex Grey says, there was one relevant thing I think should be noted. There was a section on his site dedicated to the concept of militarizing the police force and showed pictures of "ongoing excersizes" in which to train such military personal to take on these domestic policing roles. I can not state the validity of the pictures, but there are pretty messed up. Scenes of american troops standing around people dressed as civilians within barbedwire detention centers. Anywho, my point is this. That the precedent has been set twice now, katrina and now the border issue, of using military to perform police duties, is way fucked. Our legal system is based on precedent and to determine that which is legal in regards to such things as the limitation of military for posse comitatus in the future may be quite blurred because of these actions now.

[the.crooked]

Also, as a person who has lived in texas their entire lives. I have never witnessed this issue of immigration to be such a huge deal. We recognize full well that our economy is dependent upon the in/outflow of such a low wage labor force. Anyone else notice that this all of a sudden became america's number one issue, at the same time that large amounts of information about the nsa wire tapping became public? Coincedence I think not. Listen to the language used when Immigration policy is being discussed by pundits and beaurocrats on television. More specifically, today on fox news I listened to someone say that the american public has never been this concerned about any one issue. The day before, Hadley, a security advisor to the pres, stated that this issue is what concerns the american public most out of anything else right now, and thats why the president is acting on it. cough...bullshit...cough. I tend to think this question of immigration reform, as with many other obvious issues in america, was picked up merely as a sponge to absorb a large amount of public interest away from such dire things as the loss of individual privacy from the government. But I will not go on anymore bout the wire taps as I will move to that thread.

[angelofdeath]

your right, the Posse Comitatus Act forbids police powers of the federal government. actually, it was understood during the constitutional debates that this was the case... that the feds were to have no police powers. but look at it now... CIA,etc etc. for shits sake, look what happens if you dont cross the t's on your 1040 form.

there was a huge fear of a standing army during early part of this country. the argument was that when a despot gets into power in the white house he will march the army into a state and relieve the citizens of thier liberty. HOWEVER, the times to allow for police powers were during times of war, invasion, etc etc. during this times, the militia's could be called (which every able bodied male 16-45 is still a part of, and with all the equal rights laws on the books, probably woman are too) and volunteer armies could be created.

 

the act which conviently was passed AFTER federal occupation of the south during reconstruction, does not simply mean NO POLICE POWERS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, it means no police powers unless congress or the constitution authorizes. usually war time, etc etc is when things like this are broken.

 

I will argue that if the constitution allows for a socialized welfare state to be created for the "general welfare" of the american people, then surely with citizenship being under the jurisdiction of the federal government, and the feds also having the duty to protect against INVASION, there is a place for militarization of the border. personally, im fine with the states guarding the border with thier "militias." but as the border is a matter of national security, sovereignty, among other things, i see no reason the border cannot have troops on it, if the job isnt getting done.

[The Man with the Answers]

hey bionix, look at how smart breaks up his sentences... if you do that, people will actually read your posts...

[B10N1X]

um why dont dont you go get laid and maybe you wont be anal about my sentence structure you fucken cunt........

 

wow you guys really don't get it the more shyt you give me about my grammar will only make me continue to type the way i do for the sake of making you mad .......which will result in me telling you over again that i dont care go fuck yourself and if you dont want to read it dont i really dont care i write what i have to write and that's it ...like i said i write for me not you i will not conform to what you think you need for whatever sick pleasure you get off of good grammar i mean damn what the fuck are you the grammar police DO YOU ACTUALLY THINK I WILL CARE WHAT YOU THINK!! IM GOING TO CONTINUE TYPEING THE WAY I WANT AND MY POST WILL CONTINUE TO LACK SENTENCE STRUCTURE AND IF THAT GETS YOUR TIGHTY WHITIES ALL IN A KNOT THEN GREAT IM GLAD !!!........now peaceout and have a great fucken day thats if my lack of grammar hasn't ruined your entire life already ..........

[Dawood]

pms?

[B10N1X]

pms?

its just like a man to mention pms.....really did u have to go there:rolleyes:

[Smart]

um why dont dont you go get laid and maybe you wont be anal about my sentence structure you fucken cunt........

 

wow you guys really don't get it the more shyt you give me about my grammar will only make me continue to type the way i do for the sake of making you mad .......which will result in me telling you over again that i dont care go fuck yourself and if you dont want to read it dont i really dont care i write what i have to write and that's it ...like i said i write for me not you i will not conform to what you think you need for whatever sick pleasure you get off of good grammar i mean damn what the fuck are you the grammar police DO YOU ACTUALLY THINK I WILL CARE WHAT YOU THINK!! IM GOING TO CONTINUE TYPEING THE WAY I WANT AND MY POST WILL CONTINUE TO LACK SENTENCE STRUCTURE AND IF THAT GETS YOUR TIGHTY WHITIES ALL IN A KNOT THEN GREAT IM GLAD !!!........now peaceout and have a great fucken day thats if my lack of grammar hasn't ruined your entire life already ..........

 

You know he's right about what he says. I have never read anything you typed except one little sentence that jumped out at me and told me you're an idiot. After that I further confirmed my hypothesis by reading only the first line of your posts. That hasn't let me down yet.

 

People who offer advice on how to get your ideas a bit more exposure are trying to include you and your ideas, not attack you. Instead, like a 5 year old, you claim that you will simply do it more and louder. Like the 15 year old girl on Cops the other night, wanted to be taken to jail instead of staying at home grounded because she ran up the cell phone bill and mom was mad. Just because you're headstrong doesn't mean you're right, in fact, in this case, you're wrong. If it really becomes an issue around here then it is YOU who will pay.

 

This is my word.

[!@#$%]

i agree.

 

there are plenty of folks around here who use CAPS all the time, others who type succintly but obviously have problems with spelling, people who tend to type in rants, etc.

on a message board, your point is always framed by diction and grammar. whatever you have to say can easily be demeaned or reinforced by the tone

 

 

'Earned citizenship' likely key to immigration debate

In Oval Office speech, president backs legalization process

 

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 Posted: 0921 GMT (1721 HKT)

 

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The issue of "earned citizenship" -- or "amnesty," as opponents of the proposal call it -- is likely to be at center stage as lawmakers take up President Bush's call for immigration reform.

 

Bush's approach to immigration, outlined in an address Monday night, combines tougher border enforcement with a guest-worker program.

 

Trying to navigate the election-year minefield on the issue, Bush called for the short-term deployment of up to 6,000 National Guard troops in a supporting role along the U.S.-Mexico border.

 

And, for the first time, he endorsed a controversial proposal to give illegal immigrants already in the United States a path to work toward citizenship.

 

"The issue of immigration stirs intense emotions -- and in recent weeks, Americans have seen those emotions on display," Bush said in a 16-minute speech televised from the Oval Office.

 

With conservatives in his base calling for a crackdown on illegal immigration, the president conceded that "we do not yet have full control of the border" and called on Congress to fund "dramatic improvements" in manpower and technology along the U.S.-Mexico border. (Watch the political implications of the debate -- 1:43)

 

Bush called for a 50 percent increase in the number of Border Patrol agents; construction of security fences and barriers and high-tech surveillance devices along the border; and more money for state and local law enforcement in border states. (Key points of plan)

 

Under Bush's plan, the number of Border Patrol agents would rise from 12,000 to 18,000 by the end of 2008.

 

But in a nod to America's growing and politically vital Latino population, Bush made the argument that a guest-worker program is necessary to gain control of the border and relieve the "enormous pressures on our border that walls and patrols alone will not stop."

 

Every legal foreign worker would get what Bush said was a tamper-proof, biometric identity card that would make it easier for employers to determine an immigrant's legal status.

.......

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/05/16/immigration/index.html

[Smart]

You know, I think perhaps the issue of immigration is perhaps the only arena in the entire world of foreign policy where Bush might have an actual understanding AND well thought out plan of action. If there was ever anything Bush was qualified to speak on, this is it.

 

I'm so pissed that my afternoon nap and much sleeplesness colluded to let me sleep through the address last night, yet still wake up to see the opening credits of Deal or No Deal.

 

Now I gotta search for a transcript.

[Dawood]

its just like a man to mention pms.....really did u have to go there:rolleyes:

 

tee, hee...just kidding. sorry, my testosterone just kicked in and I had no control over it.

[Dawood]

I'm so pissed that my afternoon nap and much sleeplesness colluded to let me sleep through the address last night, yet still wake up to see the opening credits of Deal or No Deal.

 

Now I gotta search for a transcript.

 

 

for real? you care about it that much? when that monkey speaks it's all charlie brown's teacher to me.

[Smart]

Oh hell yeah, the best time to recognize a lie is as it falls directly from the mouth of the speaker. There are so many things other than words I look to. Body language and stammering just don't come across in a transcript. You have to listen to them say it in my opinion.

[B10N1X]

Oh man are you kidding me! You people can do what you like and think what you want keep going on about the way i type ....you see i can care less if you think your helping you can say that's what your doing but all you really care about is yourself ..... i dont come on here to be told what to do and i dont come in here to tell people what to do. i just say what i have to say and im out

im not going to spend extra time on something i dont care about for the sake of pleasing everyone else the people i want reading what i write are the people who dont care about my lack of punctuation those people are just a little bit open minded then you are ...........oh and your so very wrong about people reading what i write very wrong and don't think you are always fully right on everything becasue you arnt people have different perspectives on different subjects of how they conduct themselves on the internet that they pay for and in a forum they volunteer to post in.

i suggest you stay on the immigration topic and get off my case cause we can go at this for days and if that's what you want then you must be a 15 yr old girl not me your the one with a problem......

 

yes im headstrong but so are you .....

you continue to argue with me and although i am headstrong i am the first to admit when im wrong and in this case im not wrong no one is we all have our idea on how things should be but life isn't fair is it and we all have to live it ........

 

"there are plenty of folks around here who use CAPS all the time, others who type succintly but obviously have problems with spelling, people who tend to type in rants, etc.

on a message board, your point is always framed by diction and grammar. whatever you have to say can easily be demeaned or reinforced by the tone"- !@#$%

 

oh yea the word succintly is spelled with a c after the n..... just thought i would help.

 

i dont have a real problem with punctuation and grammar nor do i have a problem with sentence structure and rarely do i ever use caps

i just choose to type that way becasue i dont want to spend time correcting everything i type and making it suitable for you or anyone else i type what i want and how i want and that's it .

online at least on paper it's a different story on paper i take time to correct what i write but on here i just simply choose to not do it ..

 

 

at this point i have said all that i need to say becasue arguing over this is only a waste of time we will never agree and i have come to understand that way before this even started....

 

now i dont have anymore to say on the topic of immigration so i will just quit posting in here . Goodbye Thanx for sharing ......

[Smart]

FuckyeahImgonnaquitusingspacesandthatshowiwanttobecauseeveryiotaofmypersonalityisreflectedbyhowItypeontheweb

Imgonnastillusecapitallettersthough

[B10N1X]

^^ just as i thought u are the 15yr old girl........

[B10N1X]

and just the fact that you posted what you did is also a reflection of your personality not the content of your post ............and personally i think your a dick......

[Smart]

I think it's funny that there are forced breaks in my post, I didn't put any spaces but apparently, on some level the entity that is 12oz doesn't put up with that type of shit either.

[!@#$%]

show your tits.

[B10N1X]

thats a very common statement that is usually dirested to females who actively post in graffiti forums you have no idea how many times men have told me that and every time i tell them to go suck themselves........you know for people i thought to be very intelligent you turned out to be giant assholes.......

[!@#$%]

blaaablhaaabblaaaaa welcome to your hazing.

 

hmmm, i have no idea how many times you've heard that?!!

of course i have no idea..i've only been on 12oz since 1999.

what would i know?

 

everyone who comes on here to talk shit needs to learn how to take it

[coffeedependency]

what's more annoying is the infantile agrarian utopianist rambling.

[B10N1X]

oh yea i can take it alright...... you think im a rookie cause i only have 65 post in this forum..... .I've been a part of pg for almost 5 yrs now and i have had my share of debates and insults directed to me anyways after so long of dealing with peoples bullshit and standing my ground i was finally made a mod

i didn't ask to be a mod and i sure as hell didn't post thousands of post for the sake of being a mod

i was picked by the admin and i still get shit from little rookies but i dont care im still there im still a part of the forum..... i know how to take crap and i dish it back out.

did i tell you to quit pickin on me no i just reply for the sake of replying because i wont back down its not my nature to just back down so yea anyways someone told me to join 12oz despite my protest that this place was garbage i came in here and i saw that you guys actually have better debates on subjects that mean something to me and so i joined and i dont regret it but i wont intentionally make peoples life hell in a forum im no internet thug

 

all i want to do is write and do it the way i want and if you dont like it dont read it its fine with me but don't come on here telling me what i must do only cause you have moderater under your s/n not only do you have the title but from what i see a bunch of you do and you have like 5-20,000 post each it makes me wonder how many of those post were directed to people who you want to conform to your wants and needs ..........

 

i didn't come in here to be sexually harassed by a bunch of jerks i guess had i been a man none of this would have started you guys are animals and here i am thinking all men cannot be the same only to be proven wrong.........

 

go ahead prove to me that im wrong about you that your not an asshole like most men that you can actually have a debate with a female without telling her to show you her tits ..........

 

who am i kidding right it wont happen you'll just keep at it you'll just keep at this so called hazing just for the kicks and that's OK i guess you have made me your victim and now i must deal with it hopefully some good comes out of this...........

[prophet1]

BOTTOM LINE HOMEBOY:

 

YES, WE ARE TAKING OVER OUR LANDS:

 

WE ARE INDIGENOUS TO THESE LANDS, FROM ALASKA, CANADA, TO CHILE AND ARGENTINA ... FROM NEW YORK TO CALI .... INDIGENOUS, NOT NATIVE MODAFUCKA, BUT INDIGENOUS, WEVE BEEN HERE.... RIGHT HERE IN THIS SOIL YOU NOW CALL AMERIKKKA FOR THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF YEARS .... BEFORE THE SPANIARDS CAME AND CALLED IT MEXICO, BEFORE THE WETBACK PILGRIMS CROSSED THE ENTIRE ATLANTIC OCEAN AND INVADED THE EAST COAST, ... REMEMBER MANIFEST DESTINY??? YEAH, NOW ITS OUR TURN.

 

FUCK ALL YOUR LAWS, AND YOUR CONSTITUTION, AND YOUR NAZI AMERIKKKAN FLAG ...

THIS IS HOW YALL LIKE TO HIDE BEHIND THE "LAWS" "WELL WHY DONT THEY JUST COME LEGALLY" BECAUSE IT COSTS TOO MUCH AND BECAUSE WE DONT HAVE TIME SINCE OUR CHILDREN ARE STARVING, "WELL, WHY DONT YOU GO BACK HOME AND PROTEST?" MODAFUCKA WE ARE AT HOME FIRST OF ALL .... AND THE WHOLE REASON WHY COUNTRIES LIKE MEXICO ARE SO FUCKED UP ARE BECAUSE OF NATIONAL DEBT WITH THE IMF AND THE WORLD BANK .... EVER HEARD OF NAFTA??? NO ....DO SOME RESEARCH AND YOULL UNDERSTAND WHY LATIN AMERICAN ECONOMIES ARE SO FUCKED UP ........THE PRESIDENTS ARE JUST STUPID PUPPETS ASSGINED BY THE U.S. ...........

 

BOTTOM LINE IS THAT WERE ARE HERE TO MANIFEST OUR DESTINY, NO ONE CAN STOP THIS, ITS THE LAWS OF NATURE, WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND ......