Guest imported_El Mamerro Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Marine Hero. I'm having a hard time coming to terms with stuff like this, which I've seen plenty of online (as the site says, never on the news, save for the whole Jessica Lynch debacle). Obviously the intent of the site is for you to feel proud of an act of bravery. If the events it describes are indeed true, I get a sense of admiration, a sense of awe at how this guy handled the situation, but pride? I have a really hard time feeling proud for this. But then what exactly does supporting our troops mean? Do we cheer them on when they kick huge amounts of ass and leave a path of destruction? What motivation can these guys have to do and finish their jobs if we don't recognize them for acts of valor, however violent they are? Or de we just wish them to be safe and eagerly expect their return home? If you were playing basketball, would you feel supported by those who just want you to finish the game and leave the court? Or would your motivation come from those who cheer how well you play? This is fucked. I really want to say I support our troops, but it's really hard to come to terms with what it actually means to support them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsuifuku Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 I have veterans in my family, as well as family and friends who have joined the military, or are in the process of doing so. All this talk about Supporting the troops is designed to make the average joe think that the iraq war or the war in afghanistan is in his interest, which it clearly is not. I'm not a fan of immortal technique, i think hes an asshat. In this situation, however i think its useful to quote him "We don't get cheap labor for our companies, we dont get weapons contracts, we are cheap labor" I've said it before, and i'll say it again, if you are in the position where you have to work for a living, then you have more in common with an iraqi who has to work for a living than you have in common with the people who are conducting this war of imperialism. Blah They referred to this as an AK4 (ak47?) but its an RPK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereotype V.001 Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Wait........you mean, we actually KILL people in a war? JESUS CHRIST MONKEY BALLS!!!!!!! I have lost all support for the United States military!!!! Don't they know violence isn't the answer, unless you are an Iraqi insurgent(not terrorist!) and therefore it is acceptable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunm Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 what comes to mind is "goddamn!" when i see that medal. You pretty much have to get killed to win that thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumPuncher Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 I've always found myself siding with the underdog. I identify with the guy throwing a rock, not the guy driving a tank. But then again, the guy driving the tank doesn't own the tank. The Marine in the article did what only a sellect few people can do. I read somewhere that 99% of the killing in a war is done by something like 3% of the soldiers. Bomber pilots, gunners and the elite 'rambos' like this guy. He did what he thought he had to do. He'll be able to sleep at night because he made sure other men (or boys) could go home to their family, but one day he'll ask if they should have been there in the first place. I admire his ability to do what he had to do, but I'm upset it had to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAR Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 No matter how you feel about the war you can disrespect the people fighting for you. When you meet a vet you should say thank you, not fuck you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsuifuku Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 I'd never say "fuck you" to a vet, most of them come from a working class background and are not bad people. The thing I disagree with is where you said they are fighting for me. Are my wages going to be higher after the war? Am I going to be able to afford medical insurance after the war? Probably not. The US military has been used against the population of the united states before. I recall the previous governor of my state calling out the national guard because state employees went on strike. The rulers of the country will use the military against us, therefor I dont see a reason to campaign to make them into better, more efficient, killing machines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAR Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 In turn rejecting who they are and what they fight for is saying fuck you. 20 years down the line you may look back and say "Oh, i guess its was good the US attacked Afganistan and Iraq." Not everythings black and white, you have to look at the problems at hand. The US miliary has suffered many casualties because of lack of funds i.e. armor to transport vehicles. The issue at this point isnt "do i support the war" its "what can I do to make sure our soldiers come home alive". We started the war and now we have to end it. This post is a cacophony of fragmented ideas so I hope you can decifer my message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAN-THIS!!! Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 That nigga is GANGSTA! Props. But no he SHOULDN'T have even been there to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yum Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 hey a guy that killed 20 Iraqis wow he just achieved the american dream. I'd be damn proud if he killed 20 of sadaams or bush's war cabinets but as for killing 20 poor fucking Iraqi men what makes their lives worthless compared to the american soldiers he reportedly saved? (awaits a reply from bobthefuckingbuilder) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAN-THIS!!! Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Originally posted by yum@Mar 30 2006, 08:36 PM hey a guy that killed 20 Iraqis wow he just achieved the american dream. I'd be damn proud if he killed 20 of sadaams or bush's war cabinets but as for killing 20 poor fucking Iraqi men what makes their lives worthless compared to the american soldiers he reportedly saved? (awaits a reply from bobthefuckingbuilder) Quoted post Are you serious? How about the fact that they were in the direct process of trying to kill him and his squad? But word to this statement though..."I'd be damn proud if he killed 20 of sadaams or bush's war cabinets " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yum Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 fuck son youd be tryign to kill him and his soldiers too if they were rolling into your town guns blazing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAN-THIS!!! Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Originally posted by yum@Mar 30 2006, 09:08 PM fuck son youd be tryign to kill him and his soldiers too if they were rolling into your town guns blazing Quoted post Exactly! True story. But if YOU were in HIS squad you be damn proud of that nigga handleing shit like he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yum Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 yeha im sure i would be, however im not so i can sympathise with the dead guys in soem trench in their town a lot more than i can with the guys from the other side of the world hicking around in their humvee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAN-THIS!!! Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yum Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 its true buddy roll your eyes all you like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAN-THIS!!! Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 So you have zero sympathy for our grunts that were suckered into joining the military and are now fighting for their lives over there? You refuse to recognise this guys heroism simply because he's American? That's kind of shallow and simple minded don't you think? Actually it's pretty retarded don't you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 They claim they are the advocates of reform and freedom, they are in fact the forces of destruction and devastation how can missiles and machine guns bring peace and freedom to the people of Afghanistan and Iraq. They promise them a comfortable life built on torn bodies...They want us to believe that destruction is reform, killing is life, disorder is order and injustice is justice The Muslim nation finds no refuge from the injustice of the tyrannical and international terrorists. Those who make excuses for murderers are just as bad as those people who cheered on 911. I don't know how a person can say "I'm against the war but I support the troops" Thats like saying I'm a faithful christian, but I worship the Satan too" I can understand wishing them well, and hoping they don't get blown to smithereens, but the fact is, you can only be pro war or anti war. You can't chop the head off the snake and keep the tail as a pet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsuifuku Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 I feel the same way about it as (i believe it was) Henry David Thoreau felt about the spanish american war. Something to the effect of, I wish none of them harm, but I hope they are defeated in every battle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonesome Cowboy Bill Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 how about the iraqi solders who killed 20 americans? are they heros too if they managed to save their family or their platoon? the truth is, I really have no respect for people who join the military...getting paid minunum wage to murder other people getting paid minumnum wage to kill members of the other team? bullshit... we could reduce our military by 90% and we'd still be the toughest country in the world... shit, even if we had no army we wouldn't get INVADED.. remeber our militray is for DEFENSE, not offense (at least ideally) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BURLAP Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Originally posted by Lonesome Cowboy Bill@Mar 30 2006, 11:29 PM remeber our militray is for DEFENSE, not offense (at least ideally) Quoted post that's funny..i guess it would depend on what time period you're referring to because if you look at US invasions and meddling over the last, at least, couple of decades, the favoured truth is that american intervention is "defense"..protecting democracy and all those sorts of cheery things..which in a way is sort of true, but in a completely twisted and brutal way. same goes for terrorism...the US is never the one doing the terror because they call it "counter-terrorism". it's a fun little game. in case people haven't noticed, US elites have a thing for orwell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASER1NE Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 I feel bad that people are dying for no reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAN-THIS!!! Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 Originally posted by Lonesome Cowboy Bill@Mar 31 2006, 03:29 AM how about the iraqi solders who killed 20 americans? are they heros too if they managed to save their family or their platoon? Quoted post Yes. If the role was reversed and an Iraqi freedom fighter took out a whole squad of Americans single handedly on some Rambo steez then he would be the hero in the eyes of his people. Life isn't black and white. It is what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereotype V.001 Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 Originally posted by Dawood@Mar 31 2006, 12:37 AM They want us to believe that destruction is reform, killing is life, disorder is order and injustice is justice Quoted post You're talking about Islam, right? Remember when you described how your religion worships death, or "martyrdom"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereotype V.001 Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 Originally posted by Lonesome Cowboy Bill+Mar 30 2006, 11:29 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lonesome Cowboy Bill - Mar 30 2006, 11:29 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>remeber our militray is for DEFENSE, not offense (at least ideally) Quoted post [/b] <!--QuoteBegin-BURLAP@Mar 31 2006, 03:50 PM the favoured truth is that american intervention is "defense"..protecting democracy and all those sorts of cheery things..which in a way is sort of true, but in a completely twisted and brutal way. Quoted post By this logic, World War II was also an illegal action and wasn't in self defense. The Germans never attacked or held any of our soil. The Japanese only held a remote piece of Alaska, the Aleutian Islands, and we fought them across the Pacific until we obliterated two of their cities (way overkill brah). This logic would also call any preventative military actions illegal and imperialist ect, like what we could have done in Rwanda to prevent genocide or what many of you have suggested we do in Darfur. (I can hear it already "No Janjaweed neva called me a nigga! Bring our troops home!") On a side note, the condescension, ignorance, and self righteousness that is literally dripping off many of you in this thread on the views of US servicemen are amazing and also exactly what I expected to hear. God bless America, home of the selfish and land of the ungrateful. Enjoy your right to talk shit about the government, your oil and your SUVs, your food, your cozy warm beds, your colleges, your Prozac and your weed, and the fact that you don’t speak German… because the very same poor redneck, inferior to your massive intellectual prowess, misinformed, and stupid, who got suckered into murdering the other team in such an arbitrary way, have gave you those rights with his blood. Speaking of Orwell, there is some quote that your reactions are bringing to mind. Something about sleeping safe in your beds at night? Eh, must be a misquotation because it disagrees with what I use his politics for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawood Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 Originally posted by Stereotype V.001+Apr 1 2006, 02:04 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Stereotype V.001 - Apr 1 2006, 02:04 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Dawood@Mar 31 2006, 12:37 AM They want us to believe that destruction is reform, killing is life, disorder is order and injustice is justice Quoted post You're talking about Islam, right? Remember when you described how your religion worships death, or "martyrdom"? Quoted post [/b] I never said that, bring my words, I never said my religion worships death. We worship the creator, only the creator, not Death, not life, nothing but the creator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAN-THIS!!! Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 Originally posted by Stereotype V.001+Mar 31 2006, 10:04 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Stereotype V.001 - Mar 31 2006, 10:04 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Dawood@Mar 31 2006, 12:37 AM They want us to believe that destruction is reform, killing is life, disorder is order and injustice is justice Quoted post You're talking about Islam, right? Remember when you described how your religion worships death, or "martyrdom"? Quoted post [/b] No, he's talking about America. If you don't have a real arguement don't go twisting niggas words just to invent one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonesome Cowboy Bill Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 Originally posted by Stereotype V.001+Mar 31 2006, 09:34 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Stereotype V.001 - Mar 31 2006, 09:34 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> Originally posted by Lonesome Cowboy Bill@Mar 30 2006, 11:29 PM remeber our militray is for DEFENSE, not offense (at least ideally) Quoted post <!--QuoteBegin-BURLAP@Mar 31 2006, 03:50 PM the favoured truth is that american intervention is "defense"..protecting democracy and all those sorts of cheery things..which in a way is sort of true, but in a completely twisted and brutal way. Quoted post By this logic, World War II was also an illegal action and wasn't in self defense. The Germans never attacked or held any of our soil. The Japanese only held a remote piece of Alaska, the Aleutian Islands, and we fought them across the Pacific until we obliterated two of their cities (way overkill brah). Quoted post [/b] WWII was fought for economic reasons, plain and simple...people like to idealize if was for more altruistic purposes but no...our war w/ japan was the conclusion of the concept of manifest destiny and really dates to us and UK imperialism in the 19th century in asia...germany, same thing...control of Europe and mideast oil... it wasn't about saving the jews or stopping facism... it was alll about economics... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAN-THIS!!! Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 Originally posted by Stereotype V.001+Mar 31 2006, 10:34 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Stereotype V.001 - Mar 31 2006, 10:34 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> Originally posted by Lonesome Cowboy Bill@Mar 30 2006, 11:29 PM remeber our militray is for DEFENSE, not offense (at least ideally) Quoted post Originally posted by BURLAP@Mar 31 2006, 03:50 PM the favoured truth is that american intervention is "defense"..protecting democracy and all those sorts of cheery things..which in a way is sort of true, but in a completely twisted and brutal way. Quoted post By this logic, World War II was also an illegal action and wasn't in self defense. The Germans never attacked or held any of our soil. The Japanese only held a remote piece of Alaska, the Aleutian Islands, and we fought them across the Pacific until we obliterated two of their cities (way overkill brah). Quoted post [/b] Actually Germany sank one or more of our ships in international waters and Japan flat out attacked us at Pearl Harbor. God you're stupid for someone that drips... " condescension, and self righteousness". <!--QuoteBegin-Stereotype V.001@Mar 31 2006, 10:34 PM On a side note, the condescension, ignorance, and self righteousness that is literally dripping off many of you in this thread on the views of US servicemen are amazing and also exactly what I expected to hear. God bless America, home of the selfish and land of the ungrateful. Enjoy your right to talk shit about the government, your oil and your SUVs, your food, your cozy warm beds, your colleges, your Prozac and your weed, and the fact that you don’t speak German… because the very same poor redneck, inferior to your massive intellectual prowess, misinformed, and stupid, who got suckered into murdering the other team in such an arbitrary way, have gave you those rights with his blood. Quoted post Not too many people are on here cursing the soldiers. Most people blame this fucked up ass-backwards government for sending them there under the pretence of fabricated lies and downright imperialism. But neither the soldiers fighting over there nor the government that sent them there has anything to do with our comfort and "freedom". Espescially when that same government is stripping us all of our freedoms and rights left and right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BURLAP Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 Originally posted by Stereotype V.001+Mar 31 2006, 06:34 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Stereotype V.001 - Mar 31 2006, 06:34 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> Originally posted by Lonesome Cowboy Bill@Mar 30 2006, 11:29 PM remeber our militray is for DEFENSE, not offense (at least ideally) Quoted post <!--QuoteBegin-BURLAP@Mar 31 2006, 03:50 PM the favoured truth is that american intervention is "defense"..protecting democracy and all those sorts of cheery things..which in a way is sort of true, but in a completely twisted and brutal way. Quoted post By this logic, World War II was also an illegal action and wasn't in self defense. The Germans never attacked or held any of our soil. The Japanese only held a remote piece of Alaska, the Aleutian Islands, and we fought them across the Pacific until we obliterated two of their cities (way overkill brah). This logic would also call any preventative military actions illegal and imperialist ect, like what we could have done in Rwanda to prevent genocide or what many of you have suggested we do in Darfur. (I can hear it already "No Janjaweed neva called me a nigga! Bring our troops home!") On a side note, the condescension, ignorance, and self righteousness that is literally dripping off many of you in this thread on the views of US servicemen are amazing and also exactly what I expected to hear. God bless America, home of the selfish and land of the ungrateful. Enjoy your right to talk shit about the government, your oil and your SUVs, your food, your cozy warm beds, your colleges, your Prozac and your weed, and the fact that you don’t speak German… because the very same poor redneck, inferior to your massive intellectual prowess, misinformed, and stupid, who got suckered into murdering the other team in such an arbitrary way, have gave you those rights with his blood. Speaking of Orwell, there is some quote that your reactions are bringing to mind. Something about sleeping safe in your beds at night? Eh, must be a misquotation because it disagrees with what I use his politics for. Quoted post [/b] oh cool, you can speak for my logic, then extrapolate some convenient examples that fit your political point of view into a nice and neat black and white portrait...how great, now i can sleep well tonight knowing you bothered to take time out of your busy day job as a librarian at the pentagon to get all..'condescending' and 'self righteous'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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