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IRAN-why not North Korea & VENEZUELA ?


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Guest KING BLING
Originally posted by Stereotype V.001@Mar 29 2006, 12:56 PM

I guess a little bit off topic, but most people who share the views you have also believe that the US’s massive military and bloated military budget is wrong, examples of how we are the imperialist pigs of doom, ect. So, do you also accept the United State’s right to build an army and acquire “any� weapons we want, or is that a one way street for Venezuela only? Wouldn’t that be a tad hypocritical?

 

 

 

 

I fit this mold but let me give it a more logical basis. First and foremost I beleive the US should cut the military budget, not just outright but in a course of peaceful actions and global community embracing policies. So with my hope that we stop being a war machine, since this won't happen, I respect other countries desire to protect themselves from the US and the CIA and other aggressors. I think its condescending to other countries that our corporate elite government and red state hill billy dumb shit government would tell them not to build weapons we have 5,000 of already. If we don't like it, we shouldn't just tell them not to! I don't want anyone building weapons, but I also don't like bullies acting only in their own interest...

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Originally posted by KING BLING+Mar 30 2006, 01:09 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KING BLING - Mar 30 2006, 01:09 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Stereotype V.001@Mar 29 2006, 12:56 PM

I guess a little bit off topic, but most people who share the views you have also believe that the US’s massive military and bloated military budget is wrong, examples of how we are the imperialist pigs of doom, ect. So, do you also accept the United State’s right to build an army and acquire “any� weapons we want, or is that a one way street for Venezuela only? Wouldn’t that be a tad hypocritical?

 

 

 

 

I fit this mold but let me give it a more logical basis. First and foremost I beleive the US should cut the military budget, not just outright but in a course of peaceful actions and global community embracing policies. So with my hope that we stop being a war machine, since this won't happen, I respect other countries desire to protect themselves from the US and the CIA and other aggressors. I think its condescending to other countries that our corporate elite government and red state hill billy dumb shit government would tell them not to build weapons we have 5,000 of already. If we don't like it, we shouldn't just tell them not to! I don't want anyone building weapons, but I also don't like bullies acting only in their own interest...

[/b]

 

 

WOW....I AGREE WITH THIS 110% .....we need to cut our defense spending....all the money we spent on defense didnt really do anything for us as far as 9/11......the money we cut from defense should go to EDUCATION..

 

CIA.....is bullshit.....they infiltrate other countries and try to "fuck up" their governments..

 

and lastly i agree with this statement:

 

"I don't want anyone building weapons, but I also don't like bullies acting only in their own interest..."

 

 

well said..

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Originally posted by KING BLING@Mar 30 2006, 04:53 AM

I don't know if anyone here is truly Zionist, or perhaps from Israel or just likes the country because it isn't Muslim but...

 

The US is the most powerful Army, Navy, Air Force and anything else in the world, right?

 

I disagree. The US may have the best Navy. But I think Israel has the best Air Force and arguably the best Army. Not to mention the best Intelligence Agency.

 

Yeh I'm Jewish, Zionist, and Israeli (Living in the US) but what I wrote above, I can back up.

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Originally posted by tsuifuku+Mar 30 2006, 01:01 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tsuifuku - Mar 30 2006, 01:01 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Probably not the best army, I think israeli forces have seen some significant demoralization due to the fact that they are being used as a police force in the west bank and gaza.

[/b]

 

Originally posted by wiki+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wiki)</div><div class='quotemain'>The IDF is considered to be one of the most high-tech armies in the world, possessing top-of-the-line weapons and computer systems. Besides purchasing American-made weapon systems (such as the M4A1 assault rifle, F-15 Eagle and F-16 Fighting Falcon jets and Apache helicopter), the IDF has several large internal R&D departments.

 

IDF also purchases many technologies produced by the Israeli security industries including IAI, IMI, Elbit, El-Op, Rafael, Soltam and dozens of smaller firms. Many of these developments have been battle-tested in Israel's numerous military engagements, making the relationship mutually beneficial, the IDF getting tailor-made solutions and the industries a very high repute.[/b]

 

They have created the best tanks. I got to see a test run of the newest in Israel. Unbelieveable. They are completely electronic. No gas needed.

 

After they buy them they reoutfit them. The US has a deal with israel that they will give them planes if they share the advancements made on all the planes and helecopter.

 

The Israeli army developed two planes that are far more advanced than anything nowadays due to lack of funds and political issues they were never produced.

 

<!--QuoteBegin-wiki@

Israel's military technology is most famous for its guns, armored fighting vehicles (tanks, tank-converted APCs, armoured bulldozers etc) and rocketry (missiles and rockets). Israel also designs and in some cases manufactures aircraft (Kfir, Lavi) and naval systems (patrol and missile ships, Dolphin class submarine). Much of the IDF's electronic systems (intelligence, communication, command and control, navigation etc.) are Israeli-developed, including many systems installed on foreign platforms (esp. aircraft, tanks and submarines). So are many of its precision-guided munitions.

 

Currently Israel is the only country in the world with an anti-ballistic missile defense system ("Hetz", or Arrow) and working with the USA on development of a tactical high energy laser system against medium range rockets (called Nautilus THEL).

 

Israel has the independent capability of launching reconnaissance satellites into orbit (a capability which only Russia, the United States, the United Kingdom, France, the People's Republic of China, Japan and India hold). Both the satellites (Ofeq) and the launchers (Shavit) were developed by the Israeli security industries.

 

Israel is also said to have developed an indigenous nuclear capability, although no official details or acknowledgements have ever been publicized.

 

 

<!--QuoteBegin-wiki

The code of purity of arms is part of the Israeli Defense Forces official doctrine of ethics. It stipulates that:

 

The IDF servicemen and women will use their weapons and force only for the purpose of their mission, only to the necessary extent and will maintain their humanity even during combat. IDF soldiers will not use their weapons and force to harm human beings who are not combatants or prisoners of war, and will do all in their power to avoid

causing harm to their lives, bodies, dignity and property.

 

I know they follow this to the point. Dispite what others will tell you.

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Tsuifuku-

Venezuela isn’t a completely locked down state like North Korea is, but Chavez has been making steady progress to outlaw any political dissent. The Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International aren’t groups that anyone would call conservative or in the pocket of the US, and they have done a decent job documenting what he has been doing down there. Whether you think Chavez does in fact have the greater good in mind, and the occasional murder/imprisonment of someone who disagrees with him is acceptable is a matter of opinion. But the eroding human rights, and growing inability to dissent there isn’t a matter of opinion, they are facts. I used Stalin as an example because he is very similar to Chavez (anti US propaganda, claiming to want equal wealth distribution) only more extreme. And I think we can all agree South/Latin American women are indeed udd sexy. Brazil might take the lead on that one though.

 

King of Bling-

I was going to write a long, tedious post about how incompetent the UN is at preventing massacres and the US’s large military is required often, like at Srebenica when they literally handed over a refugee camp to be killed, but what’s the point. We go to shitty places in the world to help (or steal their natural resources, depending on your politics), and there is usually a tremendous backlash and we are labeled the world police, imperialists, blah blah. Then, when our help is really needed, we don’t go because we don’t want the same backlash, and the same self righteous assholes protesting the previous US actions are complaining that we never go and help out when its needed. Case and point: Somalia, and a year later the Rwandan genocide. Or Vietnam, and the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia. Those were some nice communists.

 

The aggressor label is appropriate, to a certain extent, but remember the people you are defending to have weapons could also be labeled as such. Venezuela interferes with politics in South America frequently, their agressive treatment of domestic "problems" aside. Their good friend Fidel had to be talked out of starting a nuclear holocaust, by the Russians, back during the Cuban missile crisis...not to mention what he’s done since. Venezuela’s close ally Iran has been behind a lot airline hijackings and explosions, genocide in Lebanon, the US embassy and USMC barracks bombings, suicide bombings and kidnappings since the late 70’s through their Revolutionary Guard. Most recently the Iranian-Shiite militias who have been responsible for a large chunk of the 1,000 plus Sunni civilians who have been kidnapped, tortured, and executed in the past weeks. It might be hypocritical for us to tell Iran not to build a weapon we have 5,000 of (probably more), but we haven’t used any of those since WWII on an enemy. I’d personally rather not find out how often Iran wants to use them.

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Originally posted by CALIgula+Mar 30 2006, 05:14 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CALIgula - Mar 30 2006, 05:14 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-KING BLING@Mar 30 2006, 01:09 AM

I fit this mold but let me give it a more logical basis. First and foremost I beleive the US should cut the military budget, not just outright but in a course of peaceful actions and global community embracing policies. So with my hope that we stop being a war machine, since this won't happen, I respect other countries desire to protect themselves from the US and the CIA and other aggressors. I think its condescending to other countries that our corporate elite government and red state hill billy dumb shit government would tell them not to build weapons we have 5,000 of already. If we don't like it, we shouldn't just tell them not to! I don't want anyone building weapons, but I also don't like bullies acting only in their own interest...

 

 

WOW....I AGREE WITH THIS 110% .....we need to cut our defense spending....all the money we spent on defense didnt really do anything for us as far as 9/11......the money we cut from defense should go to EDUCATION..

 

CIA.....is bullshit.....they infiltrate other countries and try to "fuck up" their governments..

 

and lastly i agree with this statement:

 

"I don't want anyone building weapons, but I also don't like bullies acting only in their own interest..."

 

 

well said..

[/b]

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The main government in Iran came to be through british and russian interests that formalized after WWI. The US also began to bid on Oil speculation contracts wich included development projects like railroads and outposts. The head of there government, the Shah, was an authoritarian leader whos position was supported by European intersts with whome he signed an exploitive concession contract that returned a minimal portion of the profits going back into the state.

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Originally posted by MAR@Mar 31 2006, 09:53 AM

Go learn so history i can tell by the way you are talking you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

And I can tell from the way you talk that you're a Jew that refuses to accept reality. You sound like the southern redneck with the yellow ribon on his pickup truck that honestly believes that America is free and we're in Iraq and Afganistan to liberate them. Only you're the Jewish version.

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Originally posted by BAN-THIS!!!@Mar 31 2006, 09:34 PM

And I can tell from the way you talk that you're a Jew

 

Yeah man. Shit turned sour real quick when the palestinians decided they wern't going to just bend over and accept a Jewish invasion. Poor Jews. grlaugh.gif

 

There was no "two state" solution when the Jews first invaded Palestine

 

Reading the mein kampf much? You really are incredibly stupid.

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Originally posted by Stereotype V.001+Mar 31 2006, 10:42 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Stereotype V.001 - Mar 31 2006, 10:42 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-BAN-THIS!!!@Mar 31 2006, 09:34 PM

And I can tell from the way you talk that you're a Jew

 

Yeah man. Shit turned sour real quick when the palestinians decided they wern't going to just bend over and accept a Jewish invasion. Poor Jews. grlaugh.gif

 

There was no "two state" solution when the Jews first invaded Palestine

 

Reading the mein kampf much? You really are incredibly stupid.

[/b]

 

 

You ever notice that everyone is pretty much laughing at you on here?

And you're calling ME stupid? :haha:

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Originally posted by BAN-THIS!!!+Mar 31 2006, 09:34 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BAN-THIS!!! - Mar 31 2006, 09:34 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-MAR@Mar 31 2006, 09:53 AM

Go learn so history i can tell by the way you are talking you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

And I can tell from the way you talk that you're a Jew that refuses to accept reality. You sound like the southern redneck with the yellow ribon on his pickup truck that honestly believes that America is free and we're in Iraq and Afganistan to liberate them. Only you're the Jewish version.

[/b]

 

Back it up. If you feel that Jews "invaded" Israel bring me proof. I'm an open minded person, dispite your illustration of me. Calling me names doesnt prove anything, it just shows that you immature.

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Originally posted by BAN-THIS!!!@Apr 3 2006, 01:13 AM

They didn't invade "Isreal", they invaded Palestinian land and named it Isreal. I don't need to dig up a history text book and scan it for you cause you already know what I'm talking about you're just playing dumb.

 

No please enlighten me. I truly have no idea what you are talking about. Invasion of "Palestine", which by the way was named after the Philistines (no relation to the people known as palestinans) by the Romans after they took over the land from the Jews. If I remember correctly the "Palestinians" never had control of the land you are refering to so did the jews invade the turkish and british land? Its surprising they didnt get squashed. I mean the turkish and british armies were huge and the first and second aliyahs were rather small in comparison.

 

So I must be really confused after years of personal study of the matter. The history books I was reading must be defunct so please scan away, and dont forget to give me the name of the books so I can do some further study. Oh and make sure they are in English my Arabic is kinda rusty.

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There you go playing dumb again. You know damn well that the land the Jews settled on in the late 1940's already belonged to the Palestinians. It's common knowledge to the rest of the world. You can hide behind your (Hebrew) lies all you want but the only people that realy buy it are other Jews. Yall doing the same thing America did to the native Americans only you're trying to claim that there never were real natives to begin with and trying to play the victim role everytime they fight back. Here's a thought, if you don't want your familly members and other civilians getting killed then don't move them to a country that you've invaded while the natives are pist and aint trying to have it. If you feel so strongly about moving your family to some sacred holly "promised land" that your ancestors abandoned eons ago and has since been populated and deeply rooted by Muslim Arabs that also consider it to be THEIR sacred "holly grounds"... then don't act all shocked and victimized when they retaliate. Especially when Jews and Arabs have always been at eachothers throats and hated eachother for centuries.

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because north korea has threatened the united states with a pre-emptive strike... you know

 

like the one we did with iraq... which america has never done before

 

UNTIL BUSH GOT INTO OFFICE

 

north korea put a million troops on thier borders and has threatened the united states with threats to nuke hawaii and california. when bush said there is evil in there

 

edit-----------

 

if you look at how america got the philipines.. you'll see its the same way america got iraq

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just last week the news reported it...

 

north korea has talked about bombing hawaii and california...

 

why isnt that in the news??

 

we dont want to provoke them, i guess

 

-----edit-------

 

i meant to say, why is it not BIG news

 

and also.. what would america think if it became big news... the middle east would look like a dream compared to a real nightmare

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Originally posted by NightOwl@Apr 3 2006, 07:09 PM

because north korea has threatened the united states with a pre-emptive strike... you know

 

like the one we did with iraq... which america has never done before

 

UNTIL BUSH GOT INTO OFFICE

 

north korea put a million troops on thier borders and has threatened the united states with threats to nuke hawaii and california. when bush said there is evil in there

 

edit-----------

 

if you look at how america got the philipines.. you'll see its the same way america got iraq

 

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not.

America has never struck first, eh?

I think the people of Kosovo, Sudan, Korea, Cuba, Vietnam and many other countries would disagree with you.

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I love when people talk about WOMD's..

 

When america releases depleted uranium into The earth..hmm

 

America has also bombed over 53 countrys after WWII....

 

As well as destroying religious monuments in India & Afghanistan

 

And "Suicide Terrorist" Look at all the suicide missions American agents went on..

 

I'm not against USA,I love it..I just hate who runs it..

 

"The real powers In washington work from behind the scenes"

-Clintons sos..

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Originally posted by BAN-THIS!!!@Apr 3 2006, 08:04 PM

There you go playing dumb again.

Im not playing dumb I waiting for you to man up and prove me wrong.

 

You know damn well that the land the Jews settled on in the late 1940's already belonged to the Palestinians. It's common knowledge to the rest of the world.

1940's!?!?! If your going to argue with me get your facts straight. Try 1880's and still no. It was not "thier" land it was bought back from the turkish and british who controlled the land,look it up.

 

You can hide behind your (Hebrew) lies all you want but the only people that realy buy it are other Jews. Yall doing the same thing America did to the native Americans only you're trying to claim that there never were real natives to begin with and trying to play the victim role everytime they fight back.

What lies? Show me some lies!

 

America? The europeans never had a claim to that land so how would that make sense?

 

They exsist the same way Americans exsits. They are a conglomerant of people from different parts of the middle east that settled in the land now known as Israel.

 

Victim role? We are the victims of countless suicide and ambush attacks on civilians. If they attacked soldiers exclusively it would be a different story.

 

Here's a thought, if you don't want your familly members and other civilians getting killed then don't move them to a country that you've invaded while the natives are pist and aint trying to have it.

WE ARE THE NATIVES.

 

If you feel so strongly about moving your family to some sacred holly "promised land" that your ancestors abandoned eons ago and has since been populated and deeply rooted by Muslim Arabs that also consider it to be THEIR sacred "holly grounds"...

It was never abandoned. We were kicked out by the romans and subsiquent invaders. Some jews managed to stay but most were removed.

 

Deeply rooted? Hardly I'll get you some British census reports.

 

then don't act all shocked and victimized when they retaliate. Especially when Jews and Arabs have always been at eachothers throats and hated eachother for centuries.

 

Thats not true either. Jews and Arabs have got along in the past. The Golden age of Spain for example or Israel-Turkish and Israel-Jordan relations now.

 

Look I can do this all day but do yourself a favor and read up on the subject. You seem uninformed, there is no shame in that, so step back for a minute a read a couple books. I suggest you read both sides of the conflict so you get a nice contrast and therefore can make an informed desision on the matter.

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I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not.

America has never struck first, eh?

I think the people of Kosovo, Sudan, Korea, Cuba, Vietnam and many other countries would disagree with you.

 

yeah.. i think i spoke too fast.. i would like to think that other countries talked to america first before america went in to fuck shit up.

like the problem was already there sorta thing

 

with iraq... that was outa nowhere

 

and all lies to invade iraq have been proven to be what they are.. lies

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