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Anti-abortion law

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I just read in the paper that South Dakota has passed a law making it illegal for any doctor in the state to perform an abortion unless it is to save the life of the pregnant woman (even illegal to abort in cases of rape or incest). As im not all that familiar with how the American Judiciary and legislature work, does this state law override Roe vs Wade or is it just symbolic of the south dakota senate's opposition to abortion?

 

related link

http://www.courant.com/news/nationworld/hc...nes-nationworld

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The whole abortion thing is bullshit! The reason being: because if I shoot and kill a pregnant woman I’m charged with a double homicide, but if my girl goes to get an abortion it's all cool. Without a definitive answer on when life begins, (at conception, first trimester etc.) there can be no solid groung to argue a point on!

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i support the bill south dakota is pushing for. if the bill passes, it does not over turn roe. Roe V Wade usurped the individual states power to decide the issue, where it had been since the start of this nation. roe centralized the government one step further. consolidation of the government is a thing to be extremely cautious of as Jefferson noted. local and decentralized laws are the key to liberty.

 

now, the purpose of the state legislatures pushing the law is to simply try to reassert state sovereignty and the 10th amendment. they are hoping to get the law passed, which would then be put into the federal courts, hopefully to the supreme court, to challenge the roe decision. if roe is over turned, fear not pro abortion people... all the blue states, where most people have abortions anyway will still have them, as they will vote to have abortion legal. ah the beauty of federalism.

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Abortion is fucked up, if you don't want the kid give it up for adoption or some shit. "when life begins" is when the semen gets into the eggs simple...

 

I'm saddened to see how many people actually support abortion in this country.

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the last I heard foster care really really sux in this country..how many kids have you adopted? abortion is normal, it has been around in all cultures since time began...animals engage in similar activity too....whats the big deal?

 

 

its ironic that the same people for the death penalty are against abortion and doctor assisted suicide.

 

 

So I guess in conservatives' eyes, the only way a women can legally commit suicide is if she gets an abortion. For a guy, just kill a cop...yeah, lol, that solves alot... (then they both get the death penalty for murder)

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Mags, just don't shoot any pregnant women and you shouldn't have a problem.

 

Angelofdeath, I don't think that RoeVsWade usurped the rights of individual states... it declared that, according to the constitution, individual states don't have the power to usurp the rights of individual citizens.

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there is no hypocrisy in being pro death penalty and anti abortion. simple morals say that killing innocent lives is wrong. if you believe life begins at conception, then you are taking an innocent life by having an abortion. a murderer for instance, getting the death penalty, squares with morals, even with God's moral law. as the proper transcription of the thou shalt not kill commandment is thou shall not murder.

 

however there is hypocrisy in being pro offensive war and bring pro life.

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Originally posted by harvey wallbanger@Feb 23 2006, 08:45 PM

Mags, just don't shoot any pregnant women and you shouldn't have a problem.

 

Angelofdeath, I don't think that RoeVsWade usurped the rights of individual states... it declared that, according to the constitution, individual states don't have the power to usurp the rights of individual citizens.

 

 

this is where the problem is. the national government has no authority to even be talking about this issue. its not about the issue at hand, but jurisdiction. with a liberal supreme court in place, (read statist supreme court) they can interpret the constitution as they want. thing is they just cant for some reason nail down exactly where the "privacy" right is in the constitution. its somewhere between the 14th (purpose :grant citizenship to free blacks) the 9th (rights reserved to the people) and the 4th (only explicit privacy right protected by the feds... search without warrant) i find no where, in the document where it says "a woman shall have the right to abort her baby."

 

since there is no expression of an abortion right in the constitution, it is not a federal issue. enter the 10th amendment. puts the issue in the states. the courts overstepped its bounds. if abortion was to be protected by the federal government as a natural right, use the proper process and pass an amendment. i'll see you at the process. however, it is much easier, with a liberal big government supreme court to simply create a "right" in the constitution and set a ruling, because there is no way an amendment allowing abortion would have passed. this simple act by unaccountable unelected life tenured judges is astonishing. it could just as easy decide that "hey bush;s wire taps are totally constitutional (when they arent)" or some sort of extreme tyrannical legislation is constitutional. which is why im opposed to big government and judicial supremacy. i believe in decentralized power, limited government and local control.

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The death penalty is also retarded... Not only does it not work as a deterrant but a fuckload of people on there are innoicent. Anyways how can you say that killing is wrong and then go ahead and kill someone.... Fuck the death penalty and fuck abortion. Let's be real here, most abortions are not done by females who were raped and what not, they are done by dumb fuck hoes who fuck too many people don't use condoms get pregnant and try to kill their mistakes.

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Guest KING BLING

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/22/dak...n.ap/index.html

 

PIERRE, South Dakota (AP) -- Legislation meant to prompt a national legal battle targeting Roe v. Wade, the 1973 Supreme Court decision legalizing abortion, was approved Wednesday by the South Dakota Senate, moving the bill a step closer to final passage.

 

Note the "moving the bill a step closer" - THE LAW HASN'T PASSED. The govenor would have to sign it among other things. He probably will but he would be signing a dead law.

 

I have almsot zero faith with the current system but I don't see the supreme court over turning a ruling with precedent without an actual individual situation that gives cause to do so. Roe has been challenged forever but no matter what politicians who pander to crazy right wing psychos have to say <especially in an ass-fuck means nothing to anyone on earth state like South Dakota> no cause exists to hear arguments that didn't exist last time.

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Originally posted by bobthedestroyer@Feb 23 2006, 11:15 PM

The death penalty is also retarded... Not only does it not work as a deterrant but a fuckload of people on there are innoicent. Anyways how can you say that killing is wrong and then go ahead and kill someone.... Fuck the death penalty and fuck abortion. Let's be real here, most abortions are not done by females who were raped and what not, they are done by dumb fuck hoes who fuck too many people don't use condoms get pregnant and try to kill their mistakes.

 

if you dont understand the principle, i could easily say the same thing about you. why is it bad to kill someone, but you talk of taking out iraqi's?

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Originally posted by MAGS156@Feb 23 2006, 07:45 PM

Without a definitive answer on when life begins...

 

I'm with AoD on the state's rights side but... consider this.

 

We're talking and arguing at an obvious assault on the Federal system and essentially a call for some definative reforms of abortion law... I can respect that.

 

What we're not talking about, because it's riding under the radar is that in Florida in the last few weeks, a bill was introduced (if not passed already, but I think just intro'ed) that would provide birth certificates for infants still-born after a certain percentage of the pregnancy term... like 70-80%

 

The thing is, this is just a cloaked ploy from the right to lifers to advance the 'date of conception' from a legal standpoint... AND, these laws have passed in several other states already!

 

Please understand, this is not an issue I'm unfamilliar with. My nephew baby Lewis sadly got tangled in his cord in the last several weeks of his term and suffocated... Do I think of him as a person, human? absolutely, he was 8+ months old in my mind but... does he need a birthcertificate? NO! He was never born... I truly wish he was, his brothers are all kick ass kids and I can only assume that he would have ruled as well but... still... no cert.

 

Hopefully the South Dakota case will pull some of these devious plots to steal your rights using honey dripping sentimentality into the forefront.

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Originally posted by angelofdeath+Feb 24 2006, 06:45 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (angelofdeath - Feb 24 2006, 06:45 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-bobthedestroyer@Feb 23 2006, 11:15 PM

The death penalty is also retarded... Not only does it not work as a deterrant but a fuckload of people on there are innoicent. Anyways how can you say that killing is wrong and then go ahead and kill someone.... Fuck the death penalty and fuck abortion. Let's be real here, most abortions are not done by females who were raped and what not, they are done by dumb fuck hoes who fuck too many people don't use condoms get pregnant and try to kill their mistakes.

 

if you dont understand the principle, i could easily say the same thing about you. why is it bad to kill someone, but you talk of taking out iraqi's?

[/b]

 

War has nothing to do with society. I didn't say whether it is bad to kill someone, I said it's wrong... and killing people overseas does not make it "right" no matter what the cause is... Living in a civilized society I don't see how that makes sense to say "it's wrong to kill but only if you do it"

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Originally posted by bobthedestroyer@Feb 23 2006, 08:24 PM

Abortion is fucked up, if you don't want the kid give it up for adoption or some shit. "when life begins" is when the semen gets into the eggs simple...

 

I'm saddened to see how many people actually support abortion in this country.

So what about when a woman gets raped? What if a couple isn't financially capable of supporting a child, and they accidentally get pregnant due to defective contraception?

 

While I don't agree with women taking the morning after pill as a form of birth control, or getting abortions simply because they were too stupid to use protection, there are definitely circumstances in which it's simply the right thing to do. There's no sense in bringing a child into this world if you're not willing and able to raise it.

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its a personal rights issue..if a woman wants to kill something IN her body, go right ahead, we kill cancer everyday by cutting it out...

 

 

and state laws/federall laws should have no say..its an intrusion into someone's life based on one particular groups' value system, which all people may or may not share. if you don't like abortion, don't get one.

 

 

plus irregardless, no matter how much we islamify our country, women are still gonna get abortions..they always have and always will..no cultural law will stop nature

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i disagree. every one is endowed with "certain inalienable" rights, among them life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. governments are not to violate these rights, and were created to protect them. just as important for the government to establish what rights we have, is the right to establish which of us has those rights. enter the sovereign state governments, under the system known as federalism.

 

abortion is a very very dangerous form of tyranny. the government simply decides a certain class of people are not people, therefore not entitled to rights. the right to kill someone (abortion) is protected the same damn way slave owners property (slaves) was protected in antebellum america. if a class or race of people was enslaved or mass murdered, it would be an outrage.

nazi germany sent millions of people to thier deaths. in america, the government is allowing the people to practice a program of mass murder.

 

the argument boils down to private property. the pro abortion side goes like..."the baby is mine, in my body, my property, i can kill it if i want."

with this logic, anyone who steps on foot of your property can be killed, even if they are delivering the mail.

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Originally posted by angelofdeath@Feb 24 2006, 04:57 PM

i disagree. every one is endowed with "certain inalienable" rights, among them life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. governments are not to violate these rights, and were created to protect them. just as important for the government to establish what rights we have, is the right to establish which of us has those rights. enter the sovereign state governments, under the system known as federalism.

 

abortion is a very very dangerous form of tyranny. the government simply decides a certain class of people are not people, therefore not entitled to rights. the right to kill someone (abortion) is protected the same damn way slave owners property (slaves) was protected in antebellum america. if a class or race of people was enslaved or mass murdered, it would be an outrage.

nazi germany sent millions of people to thier deaths. in america, the government is allowing the people to practice a program of mass murder.

 

the argument boils down to private property. the pro abortion side goes like..."the baby is mine, in my body, my property, i can kill it if i want."

with this logic, anyone who steps on foot of your property can be killed, even if they are delivering the mail.

 

 

 

I don't think using property rights is a good analogy esp since land is this country was stolen from Indian nations... and I wouldn't compare cells inside a body to an imaginary line around a piece of soil

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Originally posted by Lonesome Cowboy Bill+Feb 24 2006, 05:27 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lonesome Cowboy Bill - Feb 24 2006, 05:27 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-angelofdeath@Feb 24 2006, 04:57 PM

i disagree. every one is endowed with "certain inalienable" rights, among them life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. governments are not to violate these rights, and were created to protect them. just as important for the government to establish what rights we have, is the right to establish which of us has those rights. enter the sovereign state governments, under the system known as federalism.

 

abortion is a very very dangerous form of tyranny. the government simply decides a certain class of people are not people, therefore not entitled to rights. the right to kill someone (abortion) is protected the same damn way slave owners property (slaves) was protected in antebellum america. if a class or race of people was enslaved or mass murdered, it would be an outrage.

nazi germany sent millions of people to thier deaths. in america, the government is allowing the people to practice a program of mass murder.

 

the argument boils down to private property. the pro abortion side goes like..."the baby is mine, in my body, my property, i can kill it if i want."

with this logic, anyone who steps on foot of your property can be killed, even if they are delivering the mail.

 

 

 

I don't think using property rights is a good analogy esp since land is this country was stolen from Indian nations... and I wouldn't compare cells inside a body to an imaginary line around a piece of soil

[/b]

 

its kind of funny when you think about it.

the indians fought for the confederacy during the war between the states. what a twisted web isnt it?

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^^thats not entirely accurate...not to thread jack, but Indian tribes were not one unified nation. instead it was more like europe. Saying the Indians fought for the south is like saying England fought for the Nazis. Yeah some Tribes were allied to the South as the US was also waging war against Indian Nations on the western plains and in the West during the Civil War. Some weren't. Many Indians were fighting themselves. Many Tribes practiced slavery.

 

 

oh well

 

 

also indians practiced abortion too.. they had no laws against it

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eh, not a good analogy. i cant think of many british who fought for the nazi's. let me rephrase "an assload of indians, mainly cherokee and others of the 5 civilized tribes fought for the confederacy. and the war, as we all know was all about slavery and the northern good ol boys swooped down to save the day!" and those damn racist rednecks )with those jews in the CSA government) and those damn 100,000's of blacks who fought for and aided the confederacy. its so black and white!

sorry.

but back to abortion.....

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Originally posted by Lonesome Cowboy Bill@Feb 23 2006, 07:12 PM

its a women's issue...I'm a guy...I don't think old (white) men should be deciding this in the first place...

 

if they want an abortion, get the abortion. If they dont want an abortion, dont get an abortion. the choice is what matters.

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Indeed lost are they who have killed their children, from folly, without knowledge, and have forbidden that which Allâh has provided for them, inventing a lie against Allâh. They have indeed gone astray and were not guided. (Al-An'am 6:140)

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