ISRAEL HALTS PAYMENTS

[bobthemothafuckinbuilder]

JERUSALEM - Israel's Cabinet on Sunday approved an immediate freeze on the transfer of hundreds of millions of dollars in tax money to the Palestinians in its first response to the takeover of the Palestinian parliament by the militant group Hamas.

 

But the Israeli government held off on adopting even more drastic measures recommended by security officials, mindful of possible international reaction.

 

The decision came a day after a new Hamas-dominated Palestinian legislature was sworn into office and tapped to form the next government. Israel had promised that relations with the Palestinians would suffer the moment that happened.

 

The Palestinian Authority is becoming "a terrorist authority," and all funds to it must be halted, acting Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert told the Cabinet.

 

Israel, he added, "won't have contacts with a government in which Hamas takes part."

 

The Cabinet rejected even more drastic economic measures recommended by security officials. But the withholding of funds Israel collects on behalf of the Palestinians still threatened to make life wretched for many in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

 

Hamas' new parliament speaker, Abdel Aziz Duaik, denounced the move as a ploy motivated by political concerns ahead of Israel's March 28 elections. "This is a wrong decision, and the Israelis must reconsider it," Duaik said.

 

Hamas is sworn to Israel's destruction and has killed hundreds of Israelis in suicide bombings. Since sweeping Jan. 25 Palestinian elections, it has refused to cave in to international pressure to disarm and recognize Israel's right to exist.

 

On Sunday, Hamas nominated the pragmatic Ismail Haniyeh to be its prime minister, a move that could be intended to put a more moderate face on the group as it takes power.

 

Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas was expected to travel to the Gaza Strip later Sunday to formally charge Haniyeh with the task of putting together a new Cabinet.

 

Haniyeh said a Hamas delegation would begin consultations with possible coalition partners on Monday.

 

The Cabinet decision Sunday means Israel will halt the transfer of about $50 million in taxes it collects monthly on behalf of the Palestinians under a 1994 economic accord. That money accounts for nearly half of the Palestinian Authority's payroll and could compromise the ability of the Palestinian government — the largest employers in the territories — to pay salaries.

 

Should the government find itself unable to meet its payroll, it could be forced to fire tens of thousands of people, creating even greater volatility and desperation in areas already flush with guns and mired in poverty.

 

Israel has withheld the tax payments in the past following Palestinian attacks on Israeli targets, putting the money in escrow and eventually transferring it.

 

"The next payment is to be made in early March, and it won't take place," government spokesman Asaf Shariv said.

 

Hamas has said it would try to make up any shortfall in part by recruiting money from the Arab and Muslim world.

 

The head of the Arab League, Amr Moussa, said Sunday that Arab governments were considering providing the new Hamas-led government with enough money to make up for the funds Israel plans to withhold.

 

Hamas' stunning electoral victory — capturing 74 of 132 seats in its first run for parliament — caught Israel unprepared. Officials have been hammering out a policy that would walk a fine line between creating pressure on the Palestinians and their new leaders, without making life for ordinary Palestinians so difficult that it would compromise Israel's international campaign to shun Hamas.

 

"The international community will have an easier time standing as a united front if the civilian's population's situation is sounder," Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni said after Sunday's Cabinet meeting.

 

The West has threatened to cut off hundreds of millions of dollars that it funnels to the Palestinians annually unless Hamas recognizes Israel and renounces violence.

 

In addition to halting the transfers, the Cabinet also decided to ask the international community to stop its aid to the Palestinians, though it said humanitarian aid should continue as long as donors guarantee the money won't be used for terrorist attacks.

 

Livni said the government's policy was to distinguish between civilian, humanitarian cases and the Palestinian Authority.

 

"One can assume that the lifestyle (of the Palestinians) will change, even though this is not the aim of the government of Israel," Livni said.

 

Even deeper misery could have been expected from Defense Ministry proposals, which ranged from a ban on Palestinian laborers entering Israel to a possible wide-ranging blockade of Palestinian exports. Almost all Palestinian exports from Gaza must pass through Israeli crossings.

 

Hamas is taking over from Abbas' long-ruling Fatah Party, which fell out of favor because of its failure to eradicate corruption and lawlessness on Palestinian streets.

 

Abbas, elected separately last year to a four-year term, remains in office and has taken recent stops to consolidate his power. On Saturday, he pointedly told the militant group that he intends to carry on with his peacemaking agenda.

 

Hamas said negotiations with Israel were not on its agenda, but both the militants and Abbas said they would try to resolve through their differences through dialogue. Talks between Abbas and Hamas leaders were scheduled to take place on Sunday.

 

Elsewhere, an Israeli aircraft attacked two Palestinians laying a bomb near the Gaza-Israel border fence on Sunday, military officials said. Two militants from the small Popular Resistance Committees were killed, Palestinians said.

 

Israeli troops also killed two Palestinian teenagers during a military operation in a West Bank refugee camp, Palestinian officials said. Palestinian witnesses said the youths threw rocks at soldiers. The army said the two teens were planting a roadside bomb.

 

 

why the hell is Israel paying the palestinians in the first place?

[Ishbel Bullen]

good, stop they're funding. cant say im suprised when hamas's goal is to 'wipe out israel'...

[satansmaker]

i dont see wee peolple think thoses to groups will every co exist they probaly wont ... both fed of each other hate and lack of respect for human life... they havent got along for many years and i doubt they ever will :burn:

[Ishbel Bullen]

naw its violence and hate for violence and hate's sake so no it wont ever stop.

[Dick Quickwood]

wrong, everyone look up how israel came to be

[Milton]

Israel should start paying Palestinians to off Hamas leaders.

[Dawood]

the problem lies with israel. first and for most who are the terrorists? how is that people who resist occupation called terrorists? the palestinians were driven out of their sovereign land and yet they are at fault? common sense can tell that, and yet the whole of the western world chose to ignore that fact. israel must stop all the plundering and return all arab land and there would be peace. Besides, US aid has always been a political weapon and a democratic blackmailing, Isreal needs to stop the oppression of the palestinians. it takes two hands to clap.

[Smart]

The IRA is a group of armed resistance to 400 years of English occupation... and the IRA are terrorists.

[bobthemothafuckinbuilder]

Originally posted by Dawood@Feb 19 2006, 09:20 PM

the problem lies with israel. first and for most who are the terrorists? how is that people who resist occupation called terrorists? the palestinians were driven out of their sovereign land and yet they are at fault? common sense can tell that, and yet the whole of the western world chose to ignore that fact. israel must stop all the plundering and return all arab land and there would be peace. Besides, US aid has always been a political weapon and a democratic blackmailing, Isreal needs to stop the oppression of the palestinians. it takes two hands to clap.

Quoted post

 

Ok, smartass, a history lesson, who did the PALESTINIANS initially take the land from a few hundred years back? Israel has as much right to that land as the Palestinians or anyone else on this planet.

[bobthemothafuckinbuilder]

Just in case you're too stupid to do it i'm going to do it for you... the ottomans conquered all of that land and into Europe... Led by muhammed I and II your people took it by force... now you loose it by force and you cry like a bunch of little bitches, fuck you.

[MAR]

^Yeh that.

 

Originally posted by Dawood@Feb 19 2006, 10:20 PM

the problem lies with israel. first and for most who are the terrorists? how is that people who resist occupation called terrorists? the palestinians were driven out of their sovereign land and yet they are at fault? common sense can tell that, and yet the whole of the western world chose to ignore that fact. israel must stop all the plundering and return all arab land and there would be peace. Besides, US aid has always been a political weapon and a democratic blackmailing, Isreal needs to stop the oppression of the palestinians. it takes two hands to clap.

Quoted post

 

You really need to do your homework like you and your other misinformed bretheran you have this strange idea that the jews swooped into a heavally populated area and stole land from poor helpless people. This runs contrary to the truth.

 

In truth israel was a fairly unpopulated wasteland prior to the first aliyah (mass settlement in 1880) of jews. There was always a jewish presence in the country as well(as in way befor the first aliyah there was a family that had records to the land they were living on that traced back to the jewish temples). The arab population started to expand after the jews, mostly russains, started to drain the swamps in the area and made the deserts bloom again. After the land became fertile again the arabs from surrounding countries began to move in.

 

But lets forget about all this for a moment.

 

When israel was declared a state in 1948 the day that the declaration was made, seven arab countries attacked.

 

Israel was a country made up of farmers. They had a little military training from the countries they migrated from and limited training from rag tag malitias. Israel was also poorly armed. The arab countries at the time, most notabley the egyptians had tanks, airplanes, and much more advanced fire arms.

 

here are the ratios:

 

 

Tanks:IDF: 1 w/o gun arabs: 40

Armored cars (w/ cannon):IDF: 2 arabs: 200

Armored cars (w/o cannon):IDF: 120 arabs: 300

Artillery:IDF: 5 arabs: 140

AA and AT guns:IDF: 24 arabs: 220

Warplanes:IDF: 0 arabs: 74

Scout planes:IDF: 28 arabs: 57

Navy (armed ships):IDF: 3 arabs: 12

 

 

even with these obviously unequal odds, by some act of G-d, the Jews managed to win.

 

To this day military analists are baffled by the war. The dont teach it in military acadamies. I have heard that some teachers will sometimes think your making fun of them if you bring up the '48 war.

 

But the point is Israel won and if I rember correct the winners get the land, in fact israel was the first country in history to give back land after a war (yom kippur war).

 

But wait theres more! (yeh I know your not reading anymore....)

 

After israel won the war the arabs where packing up to leave, but no, the Israelies said wait stay, we can be friends.

 

Bad move, Moshe Dayan. Brilliant military stratagist, but too nice a guy.

 

Well thus concludes my history lesson. I hope you enjoyed ity dispite the spelling and grammatical errors.

 

I know the other wars also. I could do a whole semester of this. Unbiased too if nessisary, well close i guess...

[Dawood]

thanks for that enlightening history lesson , Bob, the Jews should hire you as a diplomat, you have a way with words.

 

638 AD : The Arab conquest began 1300 years of Muslim presence in what then became known as Filastin. Eager to be rid of their Byzantine overlords and aware of their shared heritage with the Arabs, the descendants of Ishmael, as well as the Muslims reputation for mercy and compassion in victory, the people of Jerusalem handed over the city after a brief siege. They made only one condition, That the terms of their surrender be negotiated directly with the Khalif 'Umar in person. 'Umar entered Jerusalem on foot. There was no bloodshed. There were no massacres. Those who wanted to leave were allowed to, with all their goods. Those who wanted to stay were guarantee protection for their lives, their property and places of worship.

 

Palestine was holy to Muslims because the Prophet Muhammad had designated Jerusalem as the first qibla (the direction Muslims face when praying) and because he was believed to have ascended on a night journey to heaven from the the old city of Jerusalem (al-Aqsa Mosque today) , where the Dome of the Rock was later built. Jerusalem became the third holiest city of Islam. The Muslim rulers did not force their religion on the Palestinians, and more than a century passed before the majority converted to Islam. The remaining Christians and Jews were considered People of the Book. They were allowed autonomous control in their communities and guaranteed security and freedom of worship. Such tolerance was rare in the history of religion . Most Palestinians also adopted Arabic and Islamic culture. Palestine benefited from the empires trade and from its religious significance during the first Muslim dynasty, the Umayyads of Damascus.

 

750 AD : The power shifted to Baghdad with the Abbasids, Palestine became neglected. It suffered unrest and successive domination by Seljuks, Fatimids, and European Crusaders. It shared, however, in the glory of Muslim civilization, when the Muslim world enjoyed a golden age of science, art, philosophy, and literature. Muslims preserved Greek learning and broke new ground in several fields, all of which later contributed to the Renaissance in Europe. Like the rest of the empire, however, Palestine under the Mamelukes gradually stagnated and declined.

 

 

 

1000-1899 AD

1517 AD : The Ottoman Turks of Asia Minor defeated the Mamelukes, with few interruptions, ruled Palestine until the winter of 1917-18. The country was divided into several districts (sanjaks), such as that of Jerusalem. The administration of the districts was placed largely in the hands of Arab Palestinians, who were descendants of the Canaanites. The Christian and Jewish communities, however, were allowed a large measure of autonomy. Palestine shared in the glory of the Ottoman Empire during the 16th century, but declined again when the empire began to decline in the 17th century.

 

1831-1840 AD : Muhammad Ali, the modernizing viceroy of Egypt, expanded his rule to Palestine . His policies modified the feudal order, increased agriculture, and improved education.

 

1840 The Ottoman Empire reasserted its authority, instituting its own reforms .

 

1845 Jewish in Palestine were 12,000 increased to 85,000 by 1914. All people in Palestine were Arabic Muslims and Christians.

 

1897 the first Zionist Congress held Basle, Switzerland, issued the Basle programme on the colonization of Palestine.

 

 

 

1900-1946

1904 the Fourth Zionist Congress decided to establish a national home for Jews in Argentina.

 

1906 the Zionist congress decided the Jewish homeland should be Palestine.

 

1914 With the outbreak of World War I, Britain promised the independence of Arab lands under Ottoman rule, including Palestine, in return for Arab support against Turkey which had entered the war on the side of Germany.

 

1916 Britain and France signed the Sykes-Picot Agreement, which divided the Arab region into zones of influence. Lebanon and Syria were assigned to France, Jordan and Iraq to Britain and Palestine was to be internationalized.

 

1917 The British government issued the Balfour Declaration on November 2, in the form of a letter to a British Zionist leader from the foreign secretary Arthur J. Balfour prmissing him the establishment of a national home for the Jewish people in Palestine.

 

1917-1918 Aided by the Arabs, the British captured Palestine from the Ottoman Turks. The Arabs revolted against the Turks because the British had promised them, in correspondence with Shareef Husein ibn Ali of Mecca, the independence of their countries after the war. Britain, however, also made other, conflicting commitments in the secret Sykes-Picot agreement with France and Russia (1916), it promised to divide and rule the region with its allies. In a third agreement, the Balfour Declaration of 1917, Britain promised the Jews a Jewish "national home" in Palestine .

 

1918 After WW I ended, Jews began to migrate to Palestine, which was set a side as a British mandate with the approval of the League of Nations in 1922. Large-scale Jewish settlement and extensive Zionist agricultural and industrial enterprises in Palestine began during the British mandatory period, which lasted until 1948.

 

1919 The Palestinians convened their first National Conference and expressed their opposition to the Balfour Declaration.

 

1920 The San Remo Conference granted Britain a mandate over Palestine. and two years later Palestine was effectively under British administration. Sir Herbert Samuel, a declared Zionist, was sent as Britain's first High Commissioner to Palestine.

 

1922 The Council of the League of Nations issued a Mandate for Palestine.

 

1929 Large-scale attacks on Jews by Arabs rocked Jerusalem. Palestinians killed 133 Jews and suffered 116 deaths. Sparked by a dispute over use of the Western Wall of Al-Aqsa Mosque ( this site is sacred to Muslims, but Jews claimed it is the remaining of jews temple all studies shows clearly that the wall is from the Islamic ages and it is part of al-Aqsa Mosque). But the roots of the conflict lay deeper in Arab fears of the Zionist movement which aimed to make at least part of British-administered Palestine a Jewish state.

 

1936 The Palestinians held a six-month General Strike to protest against the confiscation of land and Jewish immigration.

 

1937 Peel Commission, headed by Lord Robert Peel, issued a report. Basically, the commission concluded, the mandate in Palestine was unworkable There was no hope of any cooperative national entity there that included both Arabs and Jews. The commission went on to recommend the partition of Palestine into a Jewish state, an Arab state, and a neutral sacred-site state to be administered by Britain.

 

1939 The British government published a White Paper restricting Jewish immigration and offering independence for Palestine within ten years. This was rejected by the Zionists, who then organized terrorist groups and launched a bloody campaign against the British and the Palestinians.

 

 

 

1947-1966

1947 Great Britain decided to leave Palestine and called on the United Nations (UN) to make recommendations. In response, the UN convened its first special session and on November 29, 1947, it adopted a plan calling for partition of Palestine into Jewish and Arab states, with Jerusalem as an international zone under UN jurisdiction.

 

1947 Arab protests against partition erupted in violence, with attacks on Jewish settlements in retalation to the attacks of Jews terrorist groups to Arab Towns and villages and massacres in hundred against unarmed Palestinian in there homes.

 

15 May 1948 British decided to leave on this day, leaders of the Yishuv decided (as they claim) to implement that part of the partition plan calling for establishment of a Jewish state. The same day, the armies of Egypt, Transjordan (now Jordan), Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq joined Palestinian and other Arab guerrillas in a full-scale war (first Arab-Israeli War). The Arabs failed to prevent establishment of a Jewish state, and the war ended with four UN-arranged armistice agreements between Israel and Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, and Syria.

 

The small Gaza Strip was left under Egyptian control, and the West Bank was controled by Jordan.

 

Of the more than 800,000 Arabs who lived in Israeli-held territory before 1948, only about 170,000 remained. The rest became refugees in the surrounding Arab countries, ending the Arab majority in the Jewish state.

 

1956 Attckes incursions by refugee guerrilla bands and attacks by Arab military units were made, Egypt refused to permit Israeli ships to use the Suez Canal and blockaded the Straits of Tiran erupted in the second Arab-Israeli War.

 

Great Britain and France joined the attack because of their dispute with Egypt's president Gamal Abdel Nasser, who had nationalized the Suez Canal. Seizing the Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula within few days. The fighting was halted by the UN after a few days, and a UN Emergency Force (UNEF) was sent to supervise the cease-fire in the Canal zone. By the end of the year their forces withdrew from Egypt, but Israel refused to leave Gaza until early 1957.

 

1965 The Palestine Liberation Organization was established.

 

 

 

1967-1989

1967 Nasser's insistence in 1967 that the UNEF leave Egypt, led Israel to attack Egypt, Jordan, and Syria simultaneously on 5th of June.

 

The war ended six days later with an Israeli victory. Israel occuiped Gaza Strip, Sinai Peninsula, Arab East Jerusalem, West Bank, Golan Heights.

 

After 1967 war, several guerrilla organizations within the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) carried out guerrillas attacks on Israeli miletary targets, with the stated objective of "redeeming Palestine."

 

1973 Egypt joined Syria in a war on Israel to regain the territories lost in 1967. The two Arab states struck unexpectedly on October 6. After crossing the suez channel the Arab forces gain a lot of advanced positions in Sinai Peninsula and Golan Heights and manage to defeat the Israeli forces for more then three weeks. Israeli forces with a massive U.S. economic and military assistance managed to stop the arab forces after a three-week struggle. The Arab oil-producing states cut off petroleum exports to the United States and other Western nations in retaliation for their aid to Israel.

 

In an effort to encourage a peace settlement, U.S. secretary of state, Henry Kissinger, managed to work out military disengagements between Israel and Egypt in the Sinai and between Israel and Syria in the Golan Heights during 1974.

 

1974 The Arab Summit in Rabat recognized the PLO as the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people.

 

1982 Israel launched an invasion of Lebanon aimed at wiping out the PLO presence there. By mid-August, after intensive fighting in and around Bayrut, the PLO agreed to withdraw its guerrillas from the city. Israeli troops remained in southern Lebanon.

 

1987 Relations between Israel and the Palestinians entered a new phase with the intifada, a series of uprisings in the occupied territories that included demonstrations, strikes, and rock-throwing attacks on Israeli soldiers.

 

1988 The PNC meeting in Algiers declared the State of Palestine as outlined in the UN Partition Plan 181.

 

 

 

1990-2000

1990 Yasser Arafat addressed the UN Security Council In Geneva demanding UN emergency force to provide international protection for the Palestinian people to safeguard their lives, properties and holy places.

 

1991 The first comprehensive peace talks between Israel and delegations representing the Palestinians and neighboring Arab states

 

1993 Israel deported 415 Palestinian men to a buffer zone in southern Lebanon. The deported Palestinians were said by Israeli authorities to be active members of the militant Islamic resistance movement Hamas.

 

1993 Aftersecret negotiations, PM Rabin and PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat signed an historic peace agreement. Israel agreed to allow for Palestinian self-rule, first in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank town of Jericho, and later in other areas of the West Bank.

 

Feb 1994 An American-born Jewish settler in Hebron, Baruch Goldstein, opened fire in al-Haran al-ebrahime crowded mosque, killing 29 Muslims and wounding 150 more.

 

May 1994 In Cairo - Egypt, Yasser Arafat, and Yitzhak Rabin, signed the final version of the Declaration of Principles. Within 24 hours of the signing, Israeli military forces were scheduled to leave the Gaza Strip and Jericho.

 

July 1994 Yasser Arafat returned to Palestine.

 

Oct 1994 The Nobel Committee in Oslo, Norway, announced that the peace prize was being awarded to Israel's Foreign Minister Shimon Peres and Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin, and to Yasser Arafat.

 

Jan. 1995 Martyr bombs kills 19 in Israel.

 

April 1995 Six killed in Gaza Martyr bombing.

 

July 1995 Martyr bomb in Tel Avivi.

 

Aug. 1995 Martyr bomber kills five in Jerusalem.

 

Sept. 1995 Israeli and PLO officials meeting in Taba, Egypt, finalized agreement on the second stage of eventual Israeli withdrawal from Palestinian lands. Special arrangements were agreed upon for Hebron, where Israeli soldiers will remain to protect the 450 Jewish settlers living there.

 

Nov. 1995 Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin, was assassinated in Tel Aviv by a right-wing extremist.

 

Jan. 1996 PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat elected Presendant of the Palestinian National Authority.

 

June 1996 Right-wing Likud Party leader, Benjamin Netanyahu become the new Prime Minister of Israel.

 

June 1996 Arab summit discuss the new Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's peace plans.

 

Dec. 1996 Israeli authorities release plans to expand the Jewish settlements in Arab east Jerusalem, which causes outrage among Palestinians.

 

Jan. 1997 Israel and the Palestinian Authority reached an agreement for an Israeli redeployment from the West Bank city of Hebron.

 

Oct. 1997 Sheik Ahmed Yassin (61-year-old) founder of the militant Islamic group Hamas was released from Israeli prison, as part of a prisoner swap touched off by a failed Israeli assassination attempt in Amman, the capital of Jordan.

 

Oct. 1998 Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat signed at peace-for-land agreement at the conclusion of negotiations in the U.S. the agreement calls for Israel to relinquish control of portions of the West Bank in return for active measures to be taken by Palestinians against terrorism.

 

Nov.1998 Palestinian President Yasser Arafat inaugurated Gaza International Airport.

 

Dec. 1998 President Clinton stood witness as hundreds of Palestinian leaders renounced a call for the destruction of Israel. Clinton urged "legitimate rights for Palestinians, real security for Israel."

 

May 1999 Winning a crushing victory over hard-line Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Ehud Barak promised to forge a secure peace with the Palestinians, pull troops out of Lebanon in a year and heal the deep divisions among Israelis.

 

Sep. 1999 An agreement has been reached with Israel concerning the release of Palestinian prisoners. Such release was a major point of contention in negotiations concerning the implementation of the Wye River peace accord.

 

Oct.1999 Israel and the Palestinians agreed to establish the first open land link between the West Bank and the Gaza Strip so-called "safe passage".

 

Mar.2000 Kissing Palestinian earth and warmly welcomed byYasser Arafat, Pope John Paul II made a prayerful pilgrimage to the town of Jesus' birth.

[Smart]

Feb.2006 Israel's Cabinet approved an immediate freeze on the transfer of hundreds of millions of dollars in tax money to the Palestinians in its first response to the takeover of the Palestinian parliament by the militant group Hamas.

[Dawood]

Now it's time for the oil rich Arab countries to stand up and give to the palestinian state. After all that talk about a free palestine and a palestinian state by the surrounding arab countries complaining about the Isreali occupation, well, now is their time to show the palestinians real support if they are truly brothers, time will tell.

[MAR]

yeh like that will happen. the arabs hate the palestinians more than the israelies.

 

lebanon and jordan have histories of massacring them. Egypt will do anything in its power to make sure they dont have to take control of this unstable group of people.

 

The reason they give them money is they want them to undermine the jewish homeland and keep them out of thier countries.

 

Originally posted by "dawood"

Palestine was holy to Muslims because the Prophet Muhammad had designated Jerusalem as the first qibla (the direction Muslims face when praying) and because he was believed to have ascended on a night journey to heaven from the the old city of Jerusalem (al-Aqsa Mosque today) , where the Dome of the Rock was later built. Jerusalem became the third holiest city of Islam.

 

Jerusalem is the HOLIEST CITY to the jews. not third, first.

 

If a group of jews said that moses designated The Black Stone of Kaaba as the third holiest site in Judaism and tried to build a Synogoge there the arabs would kill them.

 

What offends me the most is the arabs have the nerve to say that the site of the Temple is made up. Not only that but they build mosques on everyone of the jewish sites, including Josephs tomb. Joseph isnt even a person that appears in the Koran. You desacrate our and other religions holy sites and expect us to be tollerant towards you?

 

Im sorry but Ive had enough of this bullshit. If it was up to me there would be no dome of the rock or al aqsa mosque on the temple mount. There would be no mosque on the Forfathers tombs, there would be no mosque on anything sacred to the jews.

 

Oh and next time when you rip something offline try to find something a little less obviously biased and something with less lies.

 

I dont have time to pick apart everything written in that timeline right now but I think I'll do it sometime later if someone else doesnt do it.

[Milton]

You both forgot the part where Jews were paying Palistinians for parts of their land (which consisted of swamps and desert). Then all of a sudden the Palestinians want the whole country back, even the parts that were purchased outright? Hmmmm...

[Ishbel Bullen]

that whole area is just a big shitstorm

[Dawood]

Originally posted by MAR+Feb 20 2006, 05:07 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MAR - Feb 20 2006, 05:07 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>yeh like that will happen. the arabs hate the palestinians more than the israelies.

 

WOW, that's a pretty big accusation. mighty bold claim...We'll have to ask some arabs i guess , huh?

 

lebanon and jordan have histories of massacring them. Egypt will do anything in its power to make sure they dont have to take control of this unstable group of people.

 

what good brothers they are

 

The reason they give them money is they want them to undermine the jewish homeland and keep them out of thier countries.

 

sounds like a power move to me.

 

<!--QuoteBegin-"dawood"

Palestine was holy to Muslims because the Prophet Muhammad had designated Jerusalem as the first qibla (the direction Muslims face when praying) and because he was believed to have ascended on a night journey to heaven from the the old city of Jerusalem (al-Aqsa Mosque today) , where the Dome of the Rock was later built. Jerusalem became the third holiest city of Islam.

 

Jerusalem is the HOLIEST CITY to the jews. not third, first.

 

If a group of jews said that moses designated The Black Stone of Kaaba as the third holiest site in Judaism and tried to build a Synogoge there the arabs would kill them.

 

oh , yeah, no doubt, as a matter of fact, they wouldn't even let the jews in Mecca, so don't get any ideas.

 

What offends me the most is the arabs have the nerve to say that the site of the Temple is made up. Not only that but they build mosques on everyone of the jewish sites, including Josephs tomb. Joseph isnt even a person that appears in the Koran. You desacrate our and other religions holy sites and expect us to be tollerant towards you?

 

read below

 

Im sorry but Ive had enough of this bullshit. If it was up to me there would be no dome of the rock or al aqsa mosque on the temple mount. There would be no mosque on the Forfathers tombs, there would be no mosque on anything sacred to the jews.

 

good thing it's not up to you huh?

 

Oh and next time when you rip something offline try to find something a little less obviously biased and something with less lies.

show me the lies, man I hate lies.

 

I dont have time to pick apart everything written in that timeline right now but I think I'll do it sometime later if someone else doesnt do it.

 

good, good, then we can get the truth.

 

Quoted post

[/b]

 

 

Ok, so Joseph is'nt mentioned in the Quran???

 

what about Surah Yusef? Theres a whole chapter named after him..

LOL.

 

Verily, in Yûsuf (joseph) and his brethren, there were Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) for those who ask. (Yusuf 12:7)

 

They said: "O our father! Why do you not trust us with Yûsuf (joseph), - when we are indeed his well-wishers?" (Yusuf 12:11)

 

They said:"O our father! We went racing with one another, and left Yûsuf (joseph) by our belongings and a wolf devoured him; but you will never believe us even when we speak the truth." (Yusuf 12:17)

 

And when he [Yûsuf (joseph)] attained his full manhood, We gave him wisdom and knowledge (the Prophethood), thus We reward the Muhsinûn (doers of good - see V.2:112). (Yusuf 12:22)

 

 

 

did you want to take that remark back Mars? I'm a nice guy, I won't clown you for it.. actually, I did a search I found 40 times that he was mentioned in the quran.

 

it;s ok, we're all human here.

[Lonesome Cowboy Bill]

jews shouldn't even dare enter mecca, why is that? makes islam seem like a religion of hate and exclusion...

[Smart]

Hey, they only exclude people who aren't muslim and they only hate those same people... what's the problem?

 

You don't have to 'accept Allah' you just have to reject everything except Allah... see? simple.

[Dawood]

Originally posted by Lonesome Cowboy Bill+Feb 21 2006, 08:19 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lonesome Cowboy Bill - Feb 21 2006, 08:19 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>jews shouldn't even dare enter mecca, why is that? makes islam seem like a religion of hate and exclusion...

Quoted post

[/b]

 

The prophet Muhammad forbid for non muslims to enter the arabian peninsula (without permission from the muslim govt.) It's a sacred place and the Islamic traditions (especially there) are upheld to the utmost. The prophet didn't want to turn it into just a place for tourism and leisure.

 

 

<!--QuoteBegin-Smart@Feb 21 2006, 08:45 AM

Hey, they only exclude people who aren't muslim and they only hate those same people... what's the problem?

 

You don't have to 'accept Allah' you just have to reject everything except Allah... see? simple.

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that's a true statement, but it's incomplete. when you say reject everything except Allah, to make that statement comprehensive (according to Islam) You would say "reject everything people worship except Allah" meaning that you don't worship anything but Allah and again, Allah is not some moon god or something other than the true God, even Arab christians refer to God as Allah in an arabic bible.

Even the pagans of mecca during the time of the prophet Muhamad beleived in Allah, but they still worshipped the idols, so that took them away from being muslims and entering into correct beleif.

[MAR]

Judaism forbids all gentiles to enter a certain part (where the golden dome is) of the temple mount, but that doesnt seem to stop the muslims.

[MAR]

Originally posted by Dawood+Feb 21 2006, 12:53 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dawood - Feb 21 2006, 12:53 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-MAR@Feb 20 2006, 05:07 PM

Bla Bla Bla

 

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Ok, so Joseph is'nt mentioned in the Quran???

 

what about Surah Yusef? Theres a whole chapter named after him..

LOL.

 

Verily, in Yûsuf (joseph) and his brethren, there were Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) for those who ask. (Yusuf 12:7)

 

They said: "O our father! Why do you not trust us with Yûsuf (joseph), - when we are indeed his well-wishers?" (Yusuf 12:11)

 

They said:"O our father! We went racing with one another, and left Yûsuf (joseph) by our belongings and a wolf devoured him; but you will never believe us even when we speak the truth." (Yusuf 12:17)

 

And when he [Yûsuf (joseph)] attained his full manhood, We gave him wisdom and knowledge (the Prophethood), thus We reward the Muhsinûn (doers of good - see V.2:112). (Yusuf 12:22)

 

 

 

did you want to take that remark back Mars? I'm a nice guy, I won't clown you for it.. actually, I did a search I found 40 times that he was mentioned in the quran.

 

it;s ok, we're all human here.

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[/b]

 

First off I want to point out that you did not respond to most any of the aformentioned accusations. Rather you skirted them with non-answer responces.

 

Next I would like to retrtact my original stament that Joseph is not in the Koran, but I would still like to point out that your people thought that it would be a nice idea to destroy the gravesite and build a mosque on top, luckily for us the Israelis stepped in and put all hault to that.

 

 

 

Is this how arabs respect the "moon of canaan"?!?

[MAR]

Dont worry when I find a spare hour i'll take apart that timeline.

[Lonesome Cowboy Bill]

I don't know where to begin..

 

 

but my question is, what about people who don't worship anything? I reject the whole concept of worship, so I guess that makes me good in allah's eyes...

[Ishbel Bullen]

no doubt ^^

[Dawood]

Originally posted by Lonesome Cowboy Bill+Feb 21 2006, 11:08 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lonesome Cowboy Bill - Feb 21 2006, 11:08 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>I don't know where to begin..

 

 

but my question is, what about people who don't worship anything? I reject the whole concept of worship, so I guess that makes me good in allah's eyes...

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[/b]

 

 

<!--QuoteBegin-Ishbel Bullen@Feb 21 2006, 11:34 PM

no doubt ^^

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Allah says about you...

 

Have you seen him who takes his own lust (vain desires) as his ilâh (god), and Allâh knowing (him as such), left him astray, and sealed his hearing and his heart, and put a cover on his sight. Who then will guide him after Allâh? Will you not then remember? (Al-Jathiyah 45:23)

[Dawood]

Originally posted by MAR@Feb 21 2006, 06:37 PM

First off I want to point out that you did not respond to most any of the aformentioned accusations. Rather you skirted them with non-answer responces.

 

Next I would like to retrtact my original stament that Joseph is not in the Koran, but I would still like to point out that your people thought that it would be a nice idea to destroy the gravesite and build a mosque on top, luckily for us the Israelis stepped in and put all hault to that.

 

Is this how arabs respect the "moon of canaan"?!?

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I'll repsectfully count myself out of this particular discussion because I don't know anything about it.

as far as the timeline, shoot. I'm all for it. I didn't post that as an absolute truth on everything that took place, I wasn't there, I don't have a spare lifetime to check the authenticity of each and every event on that timeline. Just discussion, if you think you can verify everything there without error, mar, I think youre mistaken.

[Lonesome Cowboy Bill]

Originally posted by Dawood+Feb 21 2006, 10:19 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dawood - Feb 21 2006, 10:19 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>

Originally posted by Lonesome Cowboy Bill@Feb 21 2006, 11:08 PM

I don't know where to begin..

 

 

but my question is, what about people who don't worship anything? I reject the whole concept of worship, so I guess that makes me good in allah's eyes...

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<!--QuoteBegin-Ishbel Bullen@Feb 21 2006, 11:34 PM

no doubt ^^

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Allah says about you...

 

Have you seen him who takes his own lust (vain desires) as his ilâh (god), and Allâh knowing (him as such), left him astray, and sealed his hearing and his heart, and put a cover on his sight. Who then will guide him after Allâh? Will you not then remember? (Al-Jathiyah 45:23)

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[/b]

 

 

 

umm that doesn't really make sense, esp in my case... I don't take my lusts or vain desires as my God, esp since I don't really have any. I like to smoke pot, paint grafitti, flick old freight trains and explore lines, mountain climb and read alot. My professional work focuses on helping those less fortunate than myself, so you can't say I'm in the capitalist/profit making business...

 

 

 

how'bout dem apples dooooooooood? lol

[Dawood]

if you say so..