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Cartoon Riot.


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Originally posted by Flavicon+Feb 11 2006, 05:20 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flavicon - Feb 11 2006, 05:20 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>
Originally posted by Dawood@Feb 10 2006, 11:11 PM

<!--QuoteBegin-Salafi_Zahrah@Feb 10 2006, 05:26 AM

As sallamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh ahki Dawood,

 

I say don't say anything else to these about this to these people. Don't even say anything else about the religion to them, you see the respect or should I say lack of respect they give to Allah and his Messenger (saw). This is an issue they are ignorant of in the first place. With the remarks and jokes they have made we shouldn't even be nowhere near them. You and I both know when that day comes they won't be so bold.

 

Jaza Allah Khiar

 

 

Wa alaikum salaam wa rahmatullahe wa barakatu,

 

You're probably right , it's like being on the beach and shoveling sand against the tide in here. Allahu musta'aan.

 

 

i hope for your sakes you boys don't live in the states. CIA gonna get cha!

[/b]

 

 

yeah, us and the other 10 million or so muslims in America.

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settle down dude, you take yourself way too seriously.

 

You should understand that to many this:

 

"With the remarks and jokes they have made we shouldn't even be nowhere near them. You and I both know when that day comes they won't be so bold."

 

...sounds like a threat

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Guest imported_El Mamerro
Originally posted by Lonesome Cowboy Bill@Feb 10 2006, 08:22 PM

and for that hypocritical faggot who deleted my kike/muhhamd/looter/jersey boy flic, fuck you, you did more for Osama's agenda with one click than he ever could do flying a plane into NYC...

 

 

You betcha.

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The three additional cartoons were drawn and distributed by danish imams. These fucktards have obviously nothing but ideologic bullshit, hate and infamy under their turban. They should be forced to leave the EU immediately. And btw. muslims don't respect our way of living, so I can not respect their way period.

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Originally posted by Flavicon@Feb 11 2006, 10:42 PM

settle down dude, you take yourself way too seriously.

 

You should understand that to many this:

 

"With the remarks and jokes they have made we shouldn't even be nowhere near them. You and I both know when that day comes they won't be so bold."

 

...sounds like a threat

 

 

"That day" is referring to the day of ressurrection, when all of mankind will be summonsed back to life and made to stand before their creator to be held accountable for what they did in their life.

It's not a threat from me or any other person, but , yeah, I guess it is a threat from the one who created you.

but the majority of them don't take heed.

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Originally posted by Dawood+Feb 9 2006, 07:43 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dawood - Feb 9 2006, 07:43 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>I'm just too disgusted at what people have been posting here to write anything beneficial, All, I can say is one day you'll all know the calamity of your actions.

[/b]

 

Yeah, you'll PAY! YOU'LL ALL PAY!

 

Originally posted by Dawood@Feb 9 2006, 09:07 PM

I'm mainly talking about the people coming up with more cartoons. It's just plain disrespectful and it's a real low life thing to do. I'm all for free speech, but when your speech is causing harm to others , then it's just best to be quiet.

I mean seriously, It's just a plain scumbag crackhead thing to do.

 

Well, Golly Dawoo, we all HATE scumbags and crackheads! Right gang?

 

Originally posted by Dawood@Feb 9 2006, 09:47 PM

are you on the bush administration?

 

AND the Bush admin too... jeepers!

 

Originally posted by Dawood@Feb 10 2006, 12:02 AM

I should respond with a heated emotional response, but youre a meathead and youll get what you deserve.

 

Meatheads! Best thing for 'em is a a threat!... uh... of eternal damnation when our messiah gets here because you're gonna tell on all the meatheads right? but then I'll tell on you for tellin' and the omniciant one will rise up and speak to us ALL, saying:

 

STOP SNITCHIN' BIOTCHES!

and

HEY MAN! SMELL MY FINGER...

 

Originally posted by Dawood@Feb 10 2006, 12:08 AM

<!--QuoteBegin-bobthemothafuckinbuilder@Feb 10 2006, 04:49 AM

DAwood so what your saying is... you will mass protest a fucking cartoon but you will not protest....

 

Muslims targeting women and children and blowing themselves up?

 

Muslims using violence in the name of islam?

 

Muslims beheading civilians or aid workers?

 

 

The information is out there, the scholars of islam clarified this thousands of times, but you people want to ignore it, or the media won't cover it, because it's not good for ratings.

 

 

Yeah, remember when I said you need to just run on and clean your own back yard? I think that's what Bob was trying to say here as well... and this time, instead of getting all huffy about some percieved insult, you blame it on 'the media' and 'you people'...

 

really... "'the media' and 'you people'"...

 

Here I thought we were SO different, and then you say ""'THE MEDIA' and 'YOU PEOPLE'""...

 

Well, my friend, I'm sorry for anything I've ever said anything to hurt you or offend your cauliflower ears. So, again, I apologize, I thought you were just some kook, runnin off the mouth, talkin loud and sayin nothin, givin Korean cars a bad name... you know... but now I see. For it is plain to me that we are brothers in arms but not in a gay way. I too have been balming "IT ALL" on "the media" and "you people" for years! In fact, just this morning I woke up, walked out my front door, turned to the east and shouted:

"You people get off my fucking lawn!.. And don't try goin' to the media!"

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"For most of human history, religion and bigotry have been two sides of the same coin, and it still shows.

 

Therefore there is a strong case for saying that the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten, and those who have reprinted its efforts out of solidarity, are affirming the right to criticize not merely Islam but religion in general.

 

And the Bush administration has no business at all expressing an opinion on that. If it is to say anything, it is constitutionally obliged to uphold the right and no more.

 

You can be sure that the relevant European newspapers have also printed their share of cartoons making fun of nuns and popes and messianic Israeli settlers, and taunting child-raping priests.

 

There was a time when this would not have been possible. But those taboos have been broken.

 

Which is what taboos are for. Islam makes very large claims for itself. In its art, there is a prejudice against representing the human form at all. The prohibition on picturing the prophet—who was only another male mammal—is apparently absolute. So is the prohibition on pork or alcohol or, in some Muslim societies, music or dancing. Very well then, let a good Muslim abstain rigorously from all these. But if he claims the right to make me abstain as well, he offers the clearest possible warning and proof of an aggressive intent."

 

 

 

 

 

quoted text, not mine

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The problem is the paper didnt critisize Islam, it insulted it, which is a totally different thing.

 

ex.

 

Me saying that Wahabism like what is practiced in saudi arabia is oppressive towards women is different than me saying

 

Muslims are terrorists, and to illustrate that heres a photo of the Prophet Muhammed with a bomb in his turbin.

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Sure, the cartoons were bad taste. They were niether witty nor funny (at least the ones i've seen)

 

but that doesn't excuse people from bombing and threatening just because some dorks thousands of miles away hurt their feelings.

 

Don't you see that?

 

DONT YOU SEE!!!!!

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so when is it all about respect? Seems kinda petty for a an almighty God whether ink on paper symbolized to represent something justifies murder.. hmm...

 

 

but I notice lately Dawood has been quoting so-called Muslim scholars. didn't he say before that the Koran written in ancient Arabic is the only word of god and anyone who interprets it falsifies God? With that reasoning anything any sheik or iman says it really just a human saying his own agenda...

 

 

so this really has nothing to do with Islam, rather it is political/religious leaders afraid of their mases questioning the validity of their power, eh?

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They are insecure, they know that they don't stand a chance to the forces of secular culture. I am sure they will gain more power, much like Hamas in palestine, but it will not last for long. Like the far right in this country, the fanatics are in their last throws. Give em about five years and the fire that burns in their belly's will be doused by the waters of reason. It won't be hard. Television and western media does a fine job of this. The children of Islam don't stand a chance.

 

 

 

Sex, drugs, & Rock and Roll bitches

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Originally posted by Lonesome Cowboy Bill@Feb 13 2006, 10:00 PM

so when is it all about respect? Seems kinda petty for a an almighty God whether ink on paper symbolized to represent something justifies murder.. hmm...

 

 

but I notice lately Dawood has been quoting so-called Muslim scholars. didn't he say before that the Koran written in ancient Arabic is the only word of god and anyone who interprets it falsifies God? With that reasoning anything any sheik or iman says it really just a human saying his own agenda...

 

 

so this really has nothing to do with Islam, rather it is political/religious leaders afraid of their mases questioning the validity of their power, eh?

 

No, anyone who interprets the Quran in a way other than the way the prophet Muhammad interpreted it lies on God.

Nobody becomes a sheikh without knowledge. The scholars have something called "ijmaa" meaning whatever the majority of them agree on based on clear evidence from the quran and the way of the prophet Muhammad , then the muslims accept it generally.

We don't follow humans beings. We follow what is in the quran and the authentic traditions of the prophet. And if anyone comes saying something different than that, then it is rejected.

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Originally posted by Ishbel Bullen@Feb 14 2006, 01:11 AM

its just people who want an excuse for violence really.  i mean im pretty sure that HAMAS, etc. have published cartoons of the holocaust and you dont see us going apeshit

The cartoons controversy is not about freedom of expression. It is about how a segment of European society views religion in general and Islam in particular.

 

Western 'liberals' who have chosen to defend the vilification of the Prophet Muhammad in caricatures that first appeared in a Danish newspaper, Jyllands-Posten, in September 2005 and which were subsequently reproduced in various dailies in a number of other countries, argue that their media are free to publish anything and do not impose restrictions upon themselves. This is not true at all. Elite and corporate interests, the dominant worldview prevalent in society, certain notions of the well-being of the majority and specific circumstances have always conditioned the freedom of the media.

 

Double Standards

 

Isn't it because of elite interests that in a democracy like Italy where the majority of the people were opposed to the invasion of Iraq very few anti-war intellectuals were interviewed in the mainstream print and electronic media? Isn't it because of a worldview that is skeptical of Islam that almost every newspaper editorial in France --- the nation that gave birth to the 'Rights of Man' --- bemoaned the electoral victory of the Islamic Salvation Front in Algeria in 1992 and endorsed obliquely the usurpation of power by the military junta? Isn't it because of a specific circumstance Ã? a deep seated collective guilt arising from the holocaust --- that the European media hounds and harasses anyone who dares to raise even the slightest doubt about that terrible tragedy?

 

What this shows is that there are issues that the Western media deliberately suppress --- in spite of their professed commitment to freedom of expression --- because they do not dovetail with the media's worldview or their interests.

 

Secularism in the West

 

It so happens that religion is one of those subjects that is at odds with the worldview of a lot of Western media practitioners. Often vehemently secular in outlook, sometimes contemptuous of matters of faith, they have no qualms about deriding the Sacred and the Transcendent. It is not surprising therefore that Christianity has been lambasted at some time or other in almost every major European newspaper and, on numerous occasions, Jesus Christ has been lampooned in films, cartoons and articles. This has caused grievous hurt to practicing Christians in the continent.

 

It is partly because of this attitude towards religion in general on the part of the media that Islam has also been targeted. But the vilification of Islam is also a consequence of other factors. With the dramatic growth of Muslim minorities in almost every European country in the last 20 years, the majority community has become more and more negative towards their presence, reflected in the rise of the phenomenon known as Islamophobia. While a degree of Muslim exclusivity has contributed towards this, it is the utter inability of the European to accord respect and equality to 'the other' in the socio-psychological sense which is the main problem. In an earlier period Jews had also been the victims of Europe's discrimination and demonization.

 

Stereotyping of Islam & Muslims

 

There is perhaps a more important reason for the demonization of the religion. It is the baneful impact of 911 and the war on terror upon Muslims and their subtle stereotyping in the media as a people prone to violence. Though most Western political leaders are careful to distinguish the Muslim fringe that resorts to violence in pursuit of its political objectives from the rest of the community, television images and media commentaries have often reinforced the erroneous equation of the religion with terror. It explains why some of the offensive cartoons of the Prophet published in the Jyllands-Posten made that link.

 

Equating Islam and Muslims with violence and terror is not new. It has been going on for a thousand years. It began with distorted and perverted biographies of the Prophet in Latin in France and Germany in the tenth and eleventh centuries and has continued into the twentieth and twenty-first centuries through the writings of men like Bernard Lewis and Daniel Pipes.

 

Historical Anger

 

In the past, Islam was equated with violence partly because of the anger and antagonism generated by both the Muslim conquest of large parts of Europe and the defeat of Christendom at the hands of Muslim defenders of Jerusalem at the end of the crusades. The power and glory of Islamic civilization between the eighth and fourteenth centuries --- especially its pioneering role as the founder of modern science --- when much of Europe was shrouded in the darkness of the middle ages also caused a great deal of envy and resentment which European folk literature expressed through negative stereotyping of Islam and Muslims. This stereotyping with the emphasis upon 'Islamic violence' reached its zenith during the colonial epoch when Western powers ruled the roost.

 

Oil & Zionism

 

It is not just the residue of this huge historical baggage that colors Western perceptions of the Muslim world today. It is significant that it was when certain Muslim states began to exercise control over their oil from the early seventies onwards, thus challenging the Western grip over this vital commodity, that pejorative portrayals of Arabs and Muslims became rife in the mainstream Western media. Similarly, as Zionist influence over the critical sectors of American society increased and the Palestinian resistance to Israeli occupation intensified in the sixties, the American media accelerated its imaging of 'Muslim terror.' It is undeniably true that the politics of Israel and oil has been at the root of much of the stereotyping of the religion and its adherents in recent times.

 

Role of Media

 

Since the politics of Israel and oil is entrenched within a global hegemonic structure of power, it is doubtful that the mainstream Western media will cease to equate Islam with violence in the near future. For the media themselves are part of this hegemony. This is why one has to depend upon the alternative media and dissident civil society actors to present a balanced perspective on how the religion views violence and what the historical record has been on this score.

 

Bridge-Building

 

It is encouraging that there have always been non-Muslim writers in the past as in the present, from Wolfgang Goethe to Karen Armstrong, who have attempted to provide an honest picture of Islam to the public. It is bridge-builders of their kind who are crucial for inter-civilizational harmony between Islam and the West.

 

Unfortunately, most Muslims are not aware of the work of these bridge-builders. What they have been witnessing especially in the last few years are the stark consequences of global hegemony reflected in the slaughter of innocent Muslims in Palestine and Iraq; in the humiliation of occupation and subjugation; in the treachery of double standards; in the machinations of exclusion and marginalization. It explains to a great extent the explosion of violent fury in different parts of the Muslim world over the abusive caricaturing of the Prophet. It is anger that is driven by more than their boundless love for Muhammad.

 

Violent protest is not the way

 

However, what the cartoon protesters do not realize is that by resorting to violence they have unwittingly reinforced the worst prejudices of those detractors of Islam who are only too willing to link the religion to terror. Peaceful protest would have served the cause of Islam better. Such protest calls for a certain degree of restraint. It is true that in some of the protests Muslims have shown remarkable control over their emotions. But it should have been the norm.

 

After all, when the Prophet was hurled with abuse and taunted with insults --- even when he was physically attacked --- he displayed tremendous restraint. Surely, the least that those who are protesting in his name can do is to try to emulate his example.

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